Real world break ups aren't neat

[EuTuBrute]

Thank you for this... My break up was really messy. It

Gives me comfort that it's normal

[belinda22]

Rose- how did you handle the 2 year anniversary? Will Christmas be hard? Reading about you cp living like its a tent cracked me up! It's sad, yet funny. Mine is sleeping on mattress on the floor. He has not asked for his bed frame yet. Probably too afraid or avoiding me. He's never really had furniture, and when he moves he just leaves his crap behind he doesn't want. That's what I feel like his trash.

 

My cp has also swung from marriage to not wanting a relationship right now. It's so crazy. To me, I can't understand these huge shifts. It's like being bipolar or schizophrenic. I had a few moments where I was pretty angry at him recently when I realized he's done this to me at 1 year and 8 months into our relationship, 2 years and 11 months, 3 years and 8 months, and finally 4 years and two weeks. It's nuts I put up w that. And back to a previous post where you said he acts like I victimize him when I contact him outside his parameters, you are right. The way he's spoken to me is terrible. You'd think I did something horrendous to him, but in reality I've done nothing. You are so right- I don't want to threaten him with my love anymore.

 

If anyone read these threads, they'd think what are these women doing?! I can assure you Id never in a million years think I'd be in this position. I don't know if I put up with this, because of losing my husband or what. I think it's more he's beaten me down so much that I am totally codependent. That's sad. If anyone watched this from the outside it would be almost ridiculous. Being so close (I'm talking enmeshed) to feeling like he has utter disgust for me. Telling me I'm perfect and crying bc he loves me so much to not wanting to speak to me. His mother sent me a bday gift. He didn't even send me a message. After that I bumped into him at the bar. He came over to my table hugged me and kissed me on my cheek. He said he loved and missed me and it was too hard to be around me. Not bc he didn't like me bc he does. He said I actually love you. Then I didn't talk to him for a few weeks and he agreed to come over which was the incident in which he looked all around the house. I read him a four page thing I wrote including an email he sent me and he bawled the entire time. When he left he was kind and said he loved me. He's so delusional he actually took an entire box of bandaids from my house! Since then major swings of anger bc I've contacted him. It's like completely crazy town. And I allow it.

 

I think this week will be hard with the holidays. We used to celebrate all the way through New Year's Day which is when we would open our gifts. I doubt it will have a big impact on him bc he doesn't like things or possessions and this gets him out of buying gifts. Seems these types of men hate any type of responsibility bc responsibility= commitment. Have you noticed this??

 

As far as a swing back to me, I am not sure this time. I'm actually highly doubting it. It just seems like this time he has a firm grip on the cycle that we were in and he reached an epiphany or someone gave him this advice. He said he felt like a cat on a hot tin roof bc of the pressure and anxiety he was having. He seems to think he is doing the right thing. However, when he broke up with me he said of we didn't break up we could never reach our full potential. That makes zero sense to me, but nothig he does makes sense.

 

If I could give you advice I'd say RUN. Easier said then done, because I haven't taken my own advice, but this is my 4th time goin through this. It hasn't gotten better. It doesn't stop, unless like this time for me he maybe got sick of it or "wisened" up. If you can leave with your power and pride in tow, something I didn't do.

[rosedl]

Belinda....

 

I am doing okay. Last week was worse, but then again, I spoke with him last week.

 

The anniversary date was mixed. Most of the day, I was okay. But, that night I felt really sad and I ended up crying.

 

I get so confused. Part of me thinks I should try the couple's therapy because I really do love him and I know he is not in the best frame of mind right now. His dad died this year, he is going through this really messy divorce finalization process, his daughter moved away from home, and he hasn't been really doing any of the usual stuff that helps him cope. Work is crazy. And, so on...

 

But, none of that changes the fact that he manages his stress on our relationship and pushes me out of his life when I am vulnerable. It doesn't change the fact that he has had long term commitment issues and this is not an aberration but a continuation of how he has behaved in relationships with women all of his life. It doesn't change the fact that he vacillates between adoring me and totally rejecting me.

 

The only argument I could see IF he comes back and expresses he really wants to try AND he does want the relationship is that it has been so crazy and intense for him, if it slows down and he has a chance to recover, he might be able to do the work for us to move forward.

 

I don't really believe that will be enough anymore. Last time around, I was a big advocate for us and really believed in giving it another try. I think my welcoming attitude and advocacy for us really made a difference in trying again (at least in the beginning). I no longer feel that way. I don't argue why we should stay together anymore. Now, I just tell him to go. Hell, he was going to reschedule with the couple's therapist last time around. I was the one who refused another appointment.

 

And, I told him this when he wanted to take space this time. I said that the space may be healing for him but it was not what I needed and it was just extending a harmful pattern for me. It was one thing when it was space to deal with necessities, but he told me he was using it to weigh out being in a relationship at all. Initially, it was just to give a break so that we could come back and work on this together to solve our problems. Last time I talked to him, he was pretty adamant he wanted different things then me and he was prioritizing his independence and freedoms over intimacy. He told me the best thing for me was probably to break up with him and he didn't want me focusing on the relationship.

 

I am not seeing it. I am trying to come to terms with it and find a way to let go in an honest way. I'm not there yet. I do know that I have some pretty bold and big lines in the sand, and I do know that I can hold to those boundaries. I don't know if I am strong enough to out and out just end it right now, but I do know I am strong enough to stick with the boundaries I have outlined and not give on what I think it is important. And, that pretty much equates to the same thing. The chances of him doing what I would need him to do to come back is little to none.

 

What about you? How are you going to handle it, if he comes back again?

[belinda22]

Rose-

 

Have you both agreed no contact? I am very proud of you for having firm boundaries, adn wanting to keep those boundaries. I do not think there is anything wrong with agreeing to couple's therapy. Then if it does not work out, you can walk away knowing you gave everything that you could. THis is why I so wished my CP would've agreed to counseling rather than running.

 

The holidays are hard, but so is every day. I am so mad at myself for how much I ma letting this control me, and how overall depressed I am. It is extremely hard to let go of this relatiosnhip. An outsider would think it should be really easy due to what he has put me through, sadly it is not easy.

 

It does seem that we are on such different pages from our guys. They push us away when we need them, then that makes us pull closer which pushes them away further. What a terrible and sad cycle that is.

 

I pray that my CP will snap out of it, but it has been so long. We started the break at the end of August, and then started seeing each other again in September. By the end of October is when he said we needed to break up, becasue he could not be half in and half out anymore. He felt like I was always 2 steps ahead of him, and maybe he just grew tired of this. Its devastating, because I feel like I should have been the one to walk away, not him. I gave him everything. I said I'd compromise. I treated him like a king, I guess it just was not good enough. Since it has been so long, I do not have much hope he will figure it out. We talked last on the 11th of this month via text and email. I called him out for the person he is being (not even related to me). In text he did say he loved me very much and missed me very much and missed our house and was really sorry and felt really bad and there was nothign I coudl do to change this. When I asked again if this was due to his realizing that he just wouldnt be selfish and come back bc he missed and loved me and instead woudl only come back if he can be "all in", he said that is what happened. So therefore, I don't feel like I stand a chance. After 4 years he could not be all in, so how will he be now when he isnt even seeing me. I agree with you in an earlier psot where you said that you cp almost talks himself into this being his true self. The first break up my cp told me after the fact he couldnt eat his breakfast. At the time, he didnt equate that to his sadness. This time, he is drinking more, lost weight, has had nightmares, leaves town frequently for his job (more than he has to), and has had what I assume are stress induced cold sores. But that doesnt seem to matter to him. I will remain no contact, even though I just want to sit down and talk to him. I am goign to post a vent that I wrote last night next, just because I think it will help it get it off my chest. I bet you can relate to a lot of what I post.

[belinda22]

I know most people might not understnad why this is is so hard for me, but last night I started to think of the mixed signals throughout the relationship and how this has impacted me greatly. I started to really think that my ex has a really really really serious issue. So here are my rambling thoughts, that I just need to get out with the upcoming holiday.

 

Most days I know he loves me, but then I am like did he? I knew how gitty happy he was and how many walls he let down, and then I second guess myself...All because his mixed messages and actions.

 

I saw him tell me one day how he couldnt live without me with tears in his eyes. Not because we were fighting just because thats how he felt at that moment. Then he ran from me four times. During this break up he has told me he loves me and misses me lots of times. But I have also heard him say leave me the F alone. I saw him anxiously check my fridge and bawl in my presence, but also heard him say "I havent done a single thing since we broke up, but we arent together, so I can do what I want". He didn't tell me Happy Birthday, but said he is having personal issues and needs this space. He's told me I can date others, but has asked about my whereabouts, and why there was a truck at the house when he drove by. He's told me he tells others he's handling the breakup fine, but he says he says that so he does not have to talk about it. He's told me that he wants his crowning achievement in life to be the family he makes with me, then swings to not wanting any relationship. He told me he wants to be the husband and father i deserve, because I will be the wife and mother of his dreams, but now he does not want to talk to me. He has told me I am not giving him enough affection before, and now he needs space. Ive heard him say I am the greatest thing that has ever happened to him, and then say I dont want to be in our relatiosnhip right now. He is the one who told me to pull the trigger on the house I bought and he moved in with me. He did chores around the house and talked about what we needed fixed. Less than 24 hours later he bounces again. Ive heard him say im showstoppingly gorgeous and hes batting out of his league, but also heard him tell me when i am not giving him space that who knows maybe he will regret breaking up with me or maybe he will meet someone else. I have heard him make plans for our retirement, name our children, and ask to put a bun in the oven when he is one of his super close swings. Ive also heard him say if it doesnt work out with you perhaps it just isnt in the cards for me. He has made changes at a snails pace, but hes made them. Now hes running again, when we were suppsosed to be getting engaged. He spent 4 years with me, and now wont talk to me. He told a friend a week before he broke up with me that chances were 8-9 that he'd marry me, and he knows how good he has it. He had his father come from another state to look at the investment house we were going to buy. Five hours later he needed space. It's like I love you....Get away from me...Bought me $350 earrings for our anniversary and said now all I need is the big rock, two weeks later I need space. It was setting our alarms early, so we could cuddle in the morning just the day before- to leave me alone. There is no middle ground with him, either I am the air that he breathes or he can't talk to me. This is why it is so maddening. I'm the only thing he has...to leave me alone.

[Canadiangirl78]

I just wanted to chime in and say thanks for starting this thread. I too had a very messy breakup with my fiancé. Since the split we have spent time together, been intimate, had arguments, been happy..every emotion you could imagine. Don't get me wrong, this site has been an amazing support for me, BUT, I agree wholeheartedly that what to do after a breakup is not a one size fits all thing. It can't possibly be, we as humans with different feelings and emotions are far too complex for that to be possible. I don't disagree with the NC rule in any way, however, I do not agree that it is the solution or best thing in every situation. Breakups are not all the same, so to me a textbook solution does not sit well with me. With that being said though, I think that is why this is such a special place, it's because of all of the experiences, thoughts and opinions of people being shared here are what makes it a great place to find comfort and support. I have read through threads where people are looking for advice and some people do offer their help, but it does seem to come across as their way being the ONLY way and if you don't do or agree with what they say then they make it known that you are doomed to fail..to me that's very very unfortunate and also unnecessary.

 

So anyway, I just wanted to thank you for your thoughts and sharing your feelings, I appreciated reading through and I wish you the very best today, tomorrow and always!

[belinda22]

Well I got a Christmas card from my ex's mother today. I was really happy she sent me a card. It was really sad. She said she missed me and thinks about me daily. And she hopes my 2014 brings all my hopes and dreams. Xoxo- M

I sent her a brief thank you email, not mentioning my ex at all. Just said I appreciated the card and think of her and miss her as well. And wish her a happy holiday. So I hope that was ok. She is so very sweet. I'm sure she's not all that thrilled with what her son is doing. It really did make me sad though. Ugh, the holidays...as if normal days weren't hard enough.

[rosedl]

Canadiangirl.... I agree. Break ups come in all kinds.

 

My mother broke up with my father for nine months and they reconciled and have been married for near 50 years. I am not saying that is the norm, but it is ridiculous to take every single instance and state unequivocally how something should be handled.

 

Belinda....Glad your boyfriend's mother remembered you and she was thoughtful enough to send you a card and reach out to you during the holidays.

 

The holidays are rough times. I drove by his house today (didn't go out of my way, I usually go out of my way to take a different route. I used to drive that way all the time before we met). Anyway, I looked and he had all the Christmas candles I had given him put up in his window. I am sure his daughter is home for the holidays. I can't imagine. Putting up the decorations I gave him, and just ignoring the passing of our anniversary date and going through the holidays without contacting me. I gave him all his tree ornaments and decorated his tree the past two years. How he can just ignore me to take his stupid space and push me out of his life is just messed up!

 

I had a rough day missing him today and yet, I wonder why I feel so attached to him when he pushes me out of his life and tells me he wants a life alone!

 

I found my daughter a hedgehog for Christmas on Craigslist and spent the day driving back and forth (out of state) to pick it up to give it to her in time for Christmas. It was a lot of time alone to think without distraction. I didn't think so much though, just felt a lot. Felt my attachment to him in spite of the separation, felt my sadness around the fact that there is nothing I can do about this and contacting him is out of the question. I swing back and forth between hugely missing him and wanting to reconcile to being extremely angry and disgusted with the whole thing and vowing never to speak with him again. I am all over the map.

 

I can't keep pretending these are two separate people. And, some of the things I see in him give me serious pause to want to try to reconcile if that is even an option. Selfishness. Myopia. Dishonesty (so inconsistent, he can't reconcile what he says at times from one breath to the next). Manipulation. Hard heartedness. Just as awful as he can be wonderful. Arrogant. Contrived. It is one thing when people just make a mistake, but he is more calculated. He purposely manipulates to achieve his own end in the name of 'making everyone happy'. He actually has the capacity to dress up his selfishness as well intentioned and noble.

 

And, then he sees all of that and he tells me he is full of it and goes back to Mr Dream Guy. AUGH!

 

The time apart is good for me and I am glad that he is not running back right now. The longer this goes on, the more time I have to remember all the reasons why being with HIM is not good for ME. Instead of obsessing the other way round....

[belinda22]

Rose- so sad the holidays can be. It's ridiculous that he can put up the candles you got him as well as the ornaments. Do you think he will reach out to you at all and at least say Merry Christmas? Mine definitely won't. He didn't even tell me Happy Birthday until I confronted him.

 

Today, I am feeling all hope is lost. It's been so long. I really do wish we would've sat down and talked like adults so I could get my questions answered. I'm doubting that he really ever loved me. And I have no idea if what happened were his fears (whether he recognizes it or not) or his feelings changing for me. He's said such contradictory things and never stuck to a particular reason so I have no clue. If I could just understand he loves me and this is just his issue, I truly think I would feel so much better. Most recently he has said it had nothig to do with his feelings for me and everything to do with his kisses w commitment and being in a relationship. How was he able to be in one for four years with me then?! I just wonder if in his mind he felt something was missing which is why he couldn't get there. He said he felt it was a red flag that after moving out he didn't have an urge to move back in. But later he says he misses me and the house. So it's all over the map and I just want an honest answer that I will probably never get. Like is this truly that you realized the cycle of our relationship and didn't want to just keep coming in and out if my life bc u knew it wasn't right. After everything some clarity would be nice. Don't worry I won't reach out. Posting here instead. Tomorrow is two weeks no contact. Rose did you see my long diatribe of his mixed messages on page 2? I bet you can relate.

[rosedl]

Belinda...

 

No, I don't think he will contact me. Space equals relief for him.

 

I should have just finalized the break up last time we talked but I still was holding onto some weird hope over therapy. But, the more I think about that conversation, the more it seems that he really doesn't want the responsibility and hassle of a relationship. I think his hope is to contrive some way to have his cake and eat it too. That might work with someone else....someone who prefers a partner who wants tons of freedom and space and isn't very emotional. He has told me outright that he doesn't value relationships, he values his freedom. How much clearer can he get....

 

I know for me, I have held onto the parts that gave me the hope so that I wouldn't have to let go and accept that the relationship isn't going to work. We need to listen to everything they say and BELIEVE THEM. And, actions speak louder then words. I notice we are both alone for Christmas. I notice both of us are on a message board trying to manage our emotions and heartbreak while they get the relief of SPACE and the advantage of knowing they can come back if they so choose and we will work on it with them. It's ridiculous. And, that isn't them. It's us.

 

We know what they do. We understand the pattern and what it does to us. Our hope that it will change keeps us going, but it doesn't change. Or, if it does, it only changes long enough for us to get close and then get our heart broken all over again.

 

We have no power in this other then to remove ourselves from the situation.

 

As far as I am concerned, we are broken up, I am not contacting him anymore, and I am not going to initiate therapy. I guess if he did a complete 180 and went to therapy on his own and initiated the couple's therapy and decided he wanted a long term commitment, I would reconsider. And, the chance of that....a snowball's chance in hell. I have to start thinking of myself as totally singe and envisioning my future without him in it. I have to be open to dating other men (not something I will seek now as I need a break and don't have much to give in a relationship, but my mindset has to change in that I have no devotion to maintaining some sort of misplaced fidelity to someone who is NOT my boyfriend).

 

I don't like how he treats me and I don't like how he has treated the other women in his life. The only woman he seems to treat well is his daughter.

 

We aren't in a relationship. We have to stop vesting our thoughts on a situation that is not real. We are single women who are kept on strings by men who like to have that comfort and give us just enough hope and mixed messages to keep us dangling along.

 

Yuck.

 

I need to work out my lingering co-dependent stuff and stop basing my well being on whether this messed up person rejects or embraces me. It is a waste of time and life.

 

How old are you, Belinda? You want kids and children. There are men who share that dream. There are men who would be honored and happy to share that dream with you. Find one of those. You didn't do anything wrong other then fall in love with someone who can't reciprocate it.

[belinda22]

Rose- I just turned 31. I don't have any kids yet. My husband died of cancer at 26, then I started dated this cp, so no kids or luck in love for me. My ex actually told me I could get rid of my deceased husbands frozen sperm, because we would be trying for our own children.

 

Rose- you have such great insight into this. It's the putting into practice that's difficult. You seem like the kind of woman any man would be lucky to have. Even after everything he has done to you, you have supported him. I hope you can remain strong, but I know it is so hard

 

Not a surprise at all, but Merry Christmas from my ex. I knew he wouldn't reach out for many reasons. 1. He probably is enjoying the relief. 2. He wouldn't know what to say. 3. He doesn't want to engage in any talks about us or our relationship. It does make me VERY sad as the last four Christmases we were together. I hate this person he is being but as you mentioned this is really him. This is all part of him. I just didn't realize that someone can cut you off like this. It's such a terrible feeling bc I know he loves me and misses me. This isn't about his feelings changing or there being anyone else. Just totally his issues so it stinks. I just wish he wouldn't have cut me out completely. Like I never existed. At this point I don't know of we will ever speak again Merry Christmas!

[rosedl]

Belinda....

 

I'm sorry hon.

 

Christmas is harder then I thought. I honestly did not expect any contact from him, so I can't say I am in the least surprised. I am hurt though.

 

Basically, they manage their anxiety around the relationship by withdrawing from us. As their anxiety increases when they have succeeded in getting super close, we are left alone and heartbroken when we are most open. It is cruel. They say they love us, but really? I love you so much, I am going to leave you and take back all the plans and declarations to you to manage my messed up fears and I will only come back when the anxiety swings so far the other way, I can't bear it and need to relieve the anxiety from the other direction. I am not going to actually address the my own issues that keep me behaving in this messed up pattern, but instead reject you and the relationship so I don't have to deal with my fears.

 

Them coming back and telling us they have changed their minds really means absolutely nothing other then they are at the other end of their cycle. If I had known I would have been here six months ago, I would have insisted on therapy then and not reengaged unless that happened.

 

I don't know what this is......but love? When reaching out is perceived only as a means that they still have options to come back and they retain control and empower them to reject us more......My ex basically told me, what? you have to be in a relationship? What's three months? As if I was running from man to man desperately seeking to be with anyone when I was trying to work out our problems? He says he is just super slow, but that is pure b.s. He isn't slow, he is buying time and trying to keep options open forever and pretends that it is just a glacial decision making process and it is how he is....

 

It is like they are two different people. And, what is really confusing is not knowing how much of their positive, loving, open side is an act......There can be no trust in someone who will swing this wide. My ex has blamed me. Stating my reactions were killing our chances...not his actions. He outright declared himself an abuse victim. He breaks up with me every few months, manipulates around his intent to divorce, has zero patience for me having any vulnerability or insecurity in the face of any of this, and backtracks on his word.

 

I know these rants are long and I am sure somewhat repetitive. It is more me reminding myself why I can't reengage with him then anything else.

 

You are young enough to still find someone who can be a committed partner and someone who wants to be a family man and father to your children. It is out there. Women do have the reality of biological clocks, don't let him steal this chance from you while you wait around and hope he will change. You have given him more then enough chances. Believe me, as someone who never had a father around for her kids, you want to partner with someone who has no doubt about his devotion to you and any family you build. They do this with kids, too.

 

Are you on facebook...we can keep in touch and support each other through there if you would like.

 

Let me know and I will post my name to add as a friend, and just delete that info off here once you add me

[belinda22]

Rose- yes! Please give me your Facebook name! Then we can message there so we can continue to relate and support! I have slept most of the day as I didn't sleep much last night. I don't find your messages repetitive instead I find them so supportive. It's like you have everything figured out and it reminds me. It honestly gives me the strength I need sometimes. Today is two weeks no contact. I thought about texting him Merry Christmas to see if he'd respond, but I didn't. So win for me. Your comment about managing their anxiety is so true and falls in line with everything I read. They have too much anxiety they can't deal w any other feelings of their own or any one else's. the bit about ur ex blaming you I can relate to. In October when I asked my ex if we had a chance he said possibly yes and part of him wanted this to work but don't wait on him. Then he said the more I text and email the more distant he becomes. Without knowing it fully its like he knows his own cycle. I would've thought his anxiety would've subsided by now however when looking at the facts - we were about to get engaged and looking at investment house- that's a lot Of pressure and anxiety for him. He felt like a pot boiling over. Then the pray two months of a break we saw each other weekly and slept together which probably only reloaded those anxieties. Then I hounded him with texts and we even saw each other out around town. Chatted. Said I love you and I miss you. Then he came over to talk and cry. Then I hounded w more texts. So I guess no space has been achieved. I found the typed up letter he wrote when he first took the break and this has been his stance all along basically. He said he will not move back in unless we are engaged and it's time to move on or move forward. He needed to do this to get pushed in one direction (and apparently tht was away from me at least for now). So crazy bc as I mentioned before we down the weekend together prior to the official break up and I thought he would be moving home. We again talked about future plans for the house, so I guess just reloading those fears and anxieties that were still there. I just hate the no talking but I guess this is his "it has to be all or nothing and right now it's nothing". Don't worry though he always follows up with an I love you or an I love you too. Ill check back frequently to get your name so you

Can delete right away

[rosedl]

It will be under Debbie Lusignan....brunette picture in profile in MA

 

I so relate Belinda.

 

They leave to relieve their anxiety so contact equals pressure. They only reinitiate contact when they are seeking to relieve the anxiety on the other end. My ex told me that I shouldn't tell him what I need because it makes him want to do it less....

 

I see. I can't state my needs because it makes him feel anxious so I best shut up. Ultimately, this is about control. If they commit, they lose options and they see that as losing control. Choice equates to freedom which isn't true. You have no choice if ultimately you can't choose to choose anything other then what protects your unhealthy dynamic.

 

Good for you. Don't contact him. I am sure they are both half expecting us to do it.

Edited December 25, 2013 by rosedl

[rosedl]

No, not neat at all. I broke NC yesterday.

 

He was a cold distant prick in the guise of superficially caring. Charming.

 

I know better. I was not surprised.

 

I am having a hard time with this current break up.