Critique my OLD initial messages.

[deathandtaxes]

I want advice on how to maximize my chances with women I'd be compatible with.

 

 

 

It's still just a numbers game. Forget the silly % bs that sites put out. A lot is looks-driven. You just might not be their type. I look at photos first - and if there's just something I don't like, I won't even bother reading the woman's profile. If I read their profile, I explicitly look for things that I can use to weed them out. Then I look for things that I can dig. I'm also looking to make sure that they are looking for somebody like me. I can almost guarantee you that women are doing some variation of the same.

 

 

Your message will just get their attention. As long as you don't come across as a creep or whatnot, they should look at your profile. But it's just numbers.

 

 

I remember reading about some research some researchers did, setting up fake profiles using pictures of men and women of varying beauty. They found that even the average, or less than average-looking woman would get more unsolicited messages than the best-looking guy. The top-looking woman was absolutely bombarded.

 

 

Use this as a mantra. It's a numbers thing. Look at lots of profiles. Don't get stuck on any single one. Message ANYBODY that strikes your fancy.

[Mrlonelyone]

It's still just a numbers game. Forget the silly % bs that sites put out. A lot is looks-driven. You just might not be their type. I look at photos first - and if there's just something I don't like, I won't even bother reading the woman's profile. If I read their profile, I explicitly look for things that I can use to weed them out. Then I look for things that I can dig. I'm also looking to make sure that they are looking for somebody like me. I can almost guarantee you that women are doing some variation of the same.

.

 

 

Do you really think I don't do all of that. If they look good enough to me, and their profile is good. I look at the questions that go into determining the match %.

 

 

I don't become interested enough to write them until I see that they share most of the same values, beliefs, and goals. If they have answered 90 + %of those questions much the same as I have, then that says something.

 

 

Values, beliefs, goals, are all important if you want more than a fling.

 

 

 

 

Your message will just get their attention. As long as you don't come across as a creep or whatnot, they should look at your profile. But it's just numbers.

 

 

I remember reading about some research some researchers did, setting up fake profiles using pictures of men and women of varying beauty. They found that even the average, or less than average-looking woman would get more unsolicited messages than the best-looking guy. The top-looking woman was absolutely bombarded.

 

 

Use this as a mantra. It's a numbers thing. Look at lots of profiles. Don't get stuck on any single one. Message ANYBODY that strikes your fancy.

 

 

 

 

 

Can you site a source for that "research".

 

 

 

 

I read some web page by a guy who took a picture of an average looking girl and a picture of a pig. He morphed one picture with the other to get a pig-woman. He put the pig woman on POF or OKC and the pig woman got dozens of messages. The pig-woman got messages. Even after he answered that it was a pig woman

 

 

online dating experiment. Half pig edition - PuaHate.com

 

 

 

 

While I understand what you mean by it's a numbers thing. The truth is I am just not interested in any old woman. In real life I will talk to whoever strikes my fancy. Online, as I see it, if everyone is honest we can cut past allot of BS and get to brass tacks that much faster.

[Iguanna]

I've never done OLD but from forums like this one I can say about myself that I like people who can make a joke and say something smart. On the contrary I hate people who try to sell themselves, like "I'm this and that and want this and that". I like to ask intriguing questions that many people would find bizarre but this is how I can understand the other person. The only person I would reply to would be someone who had said something smart and humorous. Women are not that much into looks. You have to win them with your personality. If I were a man I would not even include a photo of me, so I would be sure that the few women who would contact me would care for my personality and not my looks whatsoever. As a woman...hmm... I don't know.

[Mrlonelyone]

I've never done OLD but from forums like this one I can say about myself that I like people who can make a joke and say something smart. On the contrary I hate people who try to sell themselves, like "I'm this and that and want this and that". I like to ask intriguing questions that many people would find bizarre but this is how I can understand the other person. The only person I would reply to would be someone who had said something smart and humorous.

 

 

This seems to be true. If a message makes a woman laugh, smile, or say hmm has to be more likely to get a response. Even if they aren't that into your looks but especially if they are.

 

 

Women are not that much into looks. You have to win them with your personality. If I were a man I would not even include a photo of me, so I would be sure that the few women who would contact me would care for my personality and not my looks whatsoever. As a woman...hmm... I don't know.

 

 

 

This would be bad. Iguanna. Women are if anything more into looks than men. I have seen men who OLD lower their standards to the basement.

 

 

If you see a fit man dating a ugly fat or fat and ugly woman these days I'll bet they met online. Online women can UPGRADE in terms of looks, education, income, in ways that they can't offline. Offline the ratio of available attractive men to women is about 50/50. Online a woman who would never be choosy can pick whoever.

[Mrlonelyone]

I'm gonna give this a BUMP so I can get more feedback.

 

 

To summarize there are a number of people who think that the messages don't matter. If your pictures turn them on, and your profile does not say "I am an axe murderer" they will message you. If not then nothing you say matters other than to convince them not to message you.

 

 

I don't agree with that but ok.

 

 

Are their any other points of view?

[deathandtaxes]

I'm gonna give this a BUMP so I can get more feedback.

 

 

To summarize there are a number of people who think that the messages don't matter. If your pictures turn them on, and your profile does not say "I am an axe murderer" they will message you. If not then nothing you say matters other than to convince them not to message you.

 

 

I don't agree with that but ok.

 

 

Are their any other points of view?

 

 

Your message can certainly serve to exclude you. But if they're just not attracted to you, why would they bother reading the rest of the profile?

 

 

How do you think it should work exactly?

[Mrlonelyone]

Your message can certainly serve to exclude you. But if they're just not attracted to you, why would they bother reading the rest of the profile?

 

 

How do you think it should work exactly?

 

 

I actually think it works the way you do but I also consider some of the facts of how OLD looks to women.

 

 

A really decent looking woman gets tons of total garbage messages every day. They get so many messages that any one message is likely to be ignored no matter how the man looks to her. There is a low signal to noise ratio.

 

 

So this is what I think women do.

 

 

1.) Look at inbox, first 5-10 messages, first line. +profile pic get a look. The rest of the messages don't get a look at all. *

 

 

2.)Of those 5-10 messages out of the hundreds perhaps one or two get read if they are more than a hey, or wazup.

 

 

3.) Those two that she at least looks at have a shot. As long as the woman looks at your profile it is logical to assume you have a shot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To me it sounds like you think women do this.

 

 

1.) Open inbox.

2.) Look for man with best abs who looks tall.

3.) If the profile doesn't say axe murderer (and sometimes if they did), and the man is hot, they message him.

 

 

*this is why I think it might be wise to send one to two messages separated by a couple days or a week at least. It is also a good sign if they come online after you message them. We have to keep in mind women often want to be pursued a little before they act.

[deathandtaxes]

How many different women have you messaged? Any responses yet?

[BlametheIrish]

I actually think it works the way you do but I also consider some of the facts of how OLD looks to women.

 

 

A really decent looking woman gets tons of total garbage messages every day. They get so many messages that any one message is likely to be ignored no matter how the man looks to her. There is a low signal to noise ratio.

 

 

So this is what I think women do.

 

 

1.) Look at inbox, first 5-10 messages, first line. +profile pic get a look. The rest of the messages don't get a look at all. *

 

 

2.)Of those 5-10 messages out of the hundreds perhaps one or two get read if they are more than a hey, or wazup.

 

 

3.) Those two that she at least looks at have a shot. As long as the woman looks at your profile it is logical to assume you have a shot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To me it sounds like you think women do this.

 

 

1.) Open inbox.

2.) Look for man with best abs who looks tall.

3.) If the profile doesn't say axe murderer (and sometimes if they did), and the man is hot, they message him.

 

 

*this is why I think it might be wise to send one to two messages separated by a couple days or a week at least. It is also a good sign if they come online after you message them. We have to keep in mind women often want to be pursued a little before they act.

 

Here is what I did during OLD.

 

1. Open inbox

2. Delete any messages with a half assed approach to meeting me ( think messages like "Hey" or "You're sexy"

3. Scan through messages of men I find attractive. If the,profile and message are good I will respond in an interested manner. Sometimes if the profile is good but the message is bad I'll still message back.

4. Respond to people I'm not interested in with something like, " Thanks for the message but I'm not interes

5. Search for men with profiles I feel compelled to message.

 

If I check a profile more than once its because I forgot the guy from his profile or deleted his last message so I don't remember him. (Maybe this explains her looking at your profile a couple times)

 

If I don't a guy back it's because I'm not interested. If a man kept messaging me after being ignored ut would just annoy me. Of course I always message back.unlessvthe guy is creepy.

[Mrlonelyone]

How many different women have you messaged? Any responses yet?

 

 

Actually I've messaged 22 separate women this time. And gotten replies in my inbox from 5. A response rate of 22%. Three of those are women who initiated after I looked at their profiles. Only a couple are from women I'm into at all.

 

 

 

 

@blametheIrish

 

 

 

More or less what I thought. You did More than most by rending not interested messages. I think many women feel totally swamped and don't bother.

[Iguanna]

The question is, would you want a woman who is so hot (I hate hate hate this word, hot, what does it mean anyway? ) that she has 100s of men approaching her every day so she can throw them to the garbage if she wants? Is she worth it at all?

[Mrlonelyone]

The question is, would you want a woman who is so hot (I hate hate hate this word, hot, what does it mean anyway? ) that she has 100s of men approaching her every day so she can throw them to the garbage if she wants? Is she worth it at all?

 

 

In online dating any woman who is not clinically obese will get dozens of messages. A woman who works out and is educated will be flooded. Those are the facts of online dating.

 

 

They don't need to be "so hot".

[Iguanna]

In online dating any woman who is not clinically obese will get dozens of messages. A woman who works out and is educated will be flooded. Those are the facts of online dating.

 

 

They don't need to be "so hot".

 

Can we say the same for men then? And what does it mean that in online dating almost all women will have success? Than men lower their standards online cause they are desperate to find someone or cause their standards are too high in real life? (I'm just creating conversation, not asking exclusively you for any reason ). In other words, why would a woman not have success in real life and she would have in OLD? What is the difference?

[deathandtaxes]

Actually I've messaged 22 separate women this time. And gotten replies in my inbox from 5. A response rate of 22%. Three of those are women who initiated after I looked at their profiles. Only a couple are from women I'm into at all.

 

 

 

You're doing fine!! Just have fun. And don't take it personally.

[deathandtaxes]

In online dating any woman who is not clinically obese will get dozens of messages. A woman who works out and is educated will be flooded. Those are the facts of online dating.

 

 

They don't need to be "so hot".

 

 

 

A lot of men are intimidated by good-looking educated women. Sure she'll get lots of messages for OLD. And I'm also sure she'll get hit on a lot IRL. But it is interesting to see the profiles of the very good-looking women on match. Makes me feel better that they're in the same boat as me! They decided that at some point they would like a different additional avenue to meet men than the same ol same ol.

[Mrlonelyone]

Can we say the same for men then? And what does it mean that in online dating almost all women will have success? Than men lower their standards online cause they are desperate to find someone or cause their standards are too high in real life? (I'm just creating conversation, not asking exclusively you for any reason ). In other words, why would a woman not have success in real life and she would have in OLD? What is the difference?

 

 

I think the disconnect between us is that you think I am spouting off some discouraged bitter man talk or something. What I, and others, have been saying about women an online dating is hard numerical data.

 

 

Check this out.

 

 

Your Looks and Your Inbox « OkTrends

 

 

The short of that one is that men rate women along a bell shaped curve. A woman as a 50/50 chance of any man thinking she's better looking than medium. Yet men will message the top 1/3 in looks more.

 

 

Women on the other hand rate 80% of all men as worse than medium looking. Then they reply anyway.

In other words most men are not good looking to most women.

 

 

That is why a woman would have success in real life but not in OLD. On OLD women have a choice of theoretically millions of great looking, successful men. They can be and based on what they do, are, really choosy. Then eventually they realize that a normal looking guy ain't so bad and finally "settle".

[Iguanna]

Mrlonelyone, I assure you I don't disagree with you in anything nor do I believe you mean something else than are saying. I'm just making conversation.

 

The facts:

 

1) 2/3 of male messages go to the top 1/3 of women

2) Women rate 80% of all men as worse than medium looking. Then they reply anyway.

 

This creates a motive for many comments that I would like to hear from people here. My first thoughts are:

 

For men looks are more important. Ok we knew that.

Women are harsh on their judgement of looks of a man. Why is this happening?

Women settle with the middle type of a man, regarding to looks. Does this mean that she doesn't consider herself as beautiful as men see her so she thinks more beautiful men are out of her league or that she prefers to have a less attractive man cause very pretty men have the reputation of a player?

 

Again I'm not trying to argue, I'm just giving food for though.

[PegNosePete]

Of course there is one more "fact" that you've omitted to mention. The fact that there are 10 guys to every woman on OLD. It is a total sausage fest.

 

It means that any guy must put himself in the top 10 percentile, in terms of photos and profile, to have anything more than a fleeting chance of success. Luckily that is not hard because 90% of guys profiles are utter tosh. If you put in a bit of time and effort to take good photos and make a good profile and actually learn and understand how it works rather than how you THINK it SHOULD work, then you can quite easily get into the top 10%.

 

Sadly most guys don't realize this, and think that putting up any old rubbish, selfies in the bathroom mirror etc, will do. Well I say sadly, but it's not really sad, because it makes it a whole lot easier for those of us who are prepared to put in the effort.

[Mrlonelyone]

Of course there is one more "fact" that you've omitted to mention. The fact that there are 10 guys to every woman on OLD. It is a total sausage fest.

 

 

Source?

 

 

 

 

 

It means that any guy must put himself in the top 10 percentile, in terms of photos and profile, to have anything more than a fleeting chance of success. Luckily that is not hard because 90% of guys profiles are utter tosh. If you put in a bit of time and effort to take good photos and make a good profile and actually learn and understand how it works rather than how you THINK it SHOULD work, then you can quite easily get into the top 10%.

 

 

This is also true. For the week my response rate is up to 45%

Sadly most guys don't realize this, and think that putting up any old rubbish, selfies in the bathroom mirror etc, will do. Well I say sadly, but it's not really sad, because it makes it a whole lot easier for those of us who are prepared to put in the effort.

[Babolat]

Interesting things you see as hostile or critical I see as humorous. It really is a matter of taste. You know, mentioning the 8% difference as a way to make lite of the 92% similarity. Which can be a bit intimidating. It doesn't get much better than 92%. I take your point though. I really don't want to seem hostile.

 

As for the thesis thing, she mentions it in her profile as something she'd like to discuss.

 

I saw your wit, and humor, though it could be perceived differently by her.

 

I'm confused, you have messaged her 2X, no reply? If yes, why the 2nd message, one is enough my friend.

[Babolat]

I know 3 attractive woman in my social circle right now who are doing OLD. I can tell you, all 3 say its "looks first (they have to be attracted to the photos)", then the message, if they are funny, witty, intelligent, share things in common, etc.

[Babolat]

@Pteromom. I really get what you are saying. It's all in the eye of the reader on these things. Either they can connect with the kind of humor I like. Which can be dry, dark, gallows humor (one of the things me and M connected on IRL. It is really hard to find someone that gets dark humor these days.)

 

 

The thesis thing, she said your thesis...so I guess she's not talking about her stuff. I think she means she's into science and would like to date someone with a substantial interest in science. Not just a subscription to popular science.

 

 

@Nescafe. I will try to keep that in mind. At least to an extent I will tone it down a bit, but on the other hand how one tends to interpret the written words could be a hint in regards to compatibility.

 

 

@FineFreshFierce. I really try to start a convo with my messages. So I try to put multiple hooks in a first message. So she can latch onto one of them. You know, I try to make it easy for her to respond.

 

 

Keep the hints coming. This is really good insight into the ins and outs of writing a good OLD first message.

 

Be careful, you are looking for advise, coaching if you will, on how to write an OLD message. Really, just be yourself, try to show who you are. Coaching may help, but, in the end, you have to be, well, you, not who we coach you to be.

[Babolat]

Personally, I prefer when a guy messages with a short question, that shows that they actually read my profile not just looked at my pictures. For example, if you saw I wrote that I love horror movies, you could initiate contact by asking "so, what's the scariest horror movie you've seen?" I'd definitely reply. Long messages like the example you gave, are a turn off. It sounds like you're trying to sell yourself.

 

Recently, one guy messaged me a lot and I wasn't interested so I never replied. The next message he sent was "how many times do I have to annoy you until you finally reply?" I found that hilarious and kind of cute, so I replied and ended up hanging out with him last week.

 

When I did OLD recently, I always tried to find something about their profile I liked, or, could tell they were making it obvious was something important to them, and I would ask more about it, or comment on it.

[Mrlonelyone]

I saw your wit, and humor, though it could be perceived differently by her.

 

I'm confused, you have messaged her 2X, no reply? If yes, why the 2nd message, one is enough my friend.

 

 

The second message was in reply to her looking at my profile a bunch.

[pteromom]

I'm gonna give this a BUMP so I can get more feedback.

 

 

To summarize there are a number of people who think that the messages don't matter. If your pictures turn them on, and your profile does not say "I am an axe murderer" they will message you. If not then nothing you say matters other than to convince them not to message you.

 

 

I don't agree with that but ok.

 

 

Are their any other points of view?

 

I don't agree with that either. The fact is a decent looking woman won't even have time to click through to the profiles of all the guys who message her. So IMO, that message is critical. That's your first impression!