Author FairyTail Posted January 4, 2005 Author Posted January 4, 2005 What an abundance of responses. Dyermaker -- He literally told me that he was saying that, in the situation of only physical beauty, I was not the most beautiful girl on Earth. Yes, he did reiterate that he doesn't want to leave, nor would a more physically beautiful woman drive him away from me. I am just plagued by feelings of inadequecy now that he said the comment about physical beauty...but, after chatting with a fellow Psychology student of mine today, I think it is because of issues relating to this feeling that drive me to think this way. And no, he will still be honest. We have had many a talk about honesty...just none on tact, unfortunately. And yes, it is undeniable that some part of attraction is scientific, but not all of it. I'm sorry, but I must hold fast to my position on thinking porn actresses are gross. I've seen many of them because I used to be employed as a cashier at an adult bookstore (and hated every minute of it), and I think that the women look trashy and disgusting. Are you implying with your last comment that he doesn't think that I am pretty? Chica -- Thank you so much for your honesty and support. And thank you for saying I'm prettier than those trash kittens. Adunaphel -- I am so sorry that your boyfriend said that to you...that's insanely ridiculous and cruel. If my boyfriend would have added the "swap" comment, I'd be gone in two shakes of a lamb's tail. And I do agree, if he had volunteered the information, I'd really have to question his character. But, then again...he never really volunteers any information that'd make HIM looked upon negatively. Unless it's pretaining to his looks. Honestly, a simple "No" would have sufficed beautifully when I asked him the dreaded question. The matter of him looking at porn is dead and buried. I really could now care less is he looks at porn. I just don't want to hear about it, and I don't want to see it. But, yes, I would have been happy if he had just said that. Innocntlisy1981 -- I agree with what you said about alterations, which is why I find the idea of them appearing attractive so insane. I think women have the ability to look at a woman and know what they would look like without the professional stylists and make-up artists working on them, and we also realize that these women piss and **** just like the rest of us (even for money on people, sometimes). It just disgusts me that sometimes men can't see through all of that. LucreziaBorgia -- I don't want him to forget that they do indeed exist...I just don't want him to view as superior to me in any way. I know how that sounds, but I'm being brutally honest. RowanRavyn -- I really don't care if he looks at porn anymore, so that isn't really the issue here. And yes, I was fishing for an answer, and quite casually, mind you, and it did blow up in my face. And I agree on the "Bride of Frankenstein" comment. Monday -- I understand what you're saying and really appreciate your support, but I don't want to break up with him because I love him so deeply. He did say he would never trade me for one of those girls and if he had, I would have dropped him immediately. And I don't want him to change himself -- if I wanted someone different, I'd get someone different. I'm just having a hard time dealing with the current situation. But, yes, I do see how you'd be hurt because women want to be a "10" in their man's eyes, and that was not the best answer he could have given you. Also, I agree...men have trouble communicating efficiently with women; they don't understand how harshly society has drilled the importance of being attractive into our minds, and we can't always escape it, no matter how hard me try. MustardBomb -- Thank you so much -- your comment made a lot of sense to and was very intelligently worded. I really appreciate it. Huntr777 -- I agree -- they ARE skanky, which is why I have a problem with being compared to them. How do you compare french fries and caviar? My answer is that you SHOULDN'T. And I agree, inner beauty, to me, bleeds into the physical appearance of a person. Unfortunately, my boyfriend has the amazing ability to see in black and white. Blind_Otter -- I loved your comment. And I think hedonistic is how I'd describe most of them, as well, once you watch their documentaries on "E!" and whatnot. And I understand how they are just an object, but I don't want my boyfriend thinking I'm not as prettier as that object. Sex and love, in my opinion, shouldn't be divided. But, that's just me. Well, like I said, I am the most beautiful girl to me...not to others. And I think it's great that you think you are beautiful, as well, and if beauty does indeed reflect good personality, judging from your post, I bet you're quite the heartbreaker super model. I don't care if a random person walking down the street thinks I'm a knock-out...I care if my little Japanese boy does. And yes, I like the diversity, as well...as a matter of fact, I was hoping someone could knock me into viewing things in the other direction and that's why I posted in the first place.
blind_otter Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Well, that explains a lot. Is he culturally Japanese, or culturally American? Well, to be honest with you, FOB asians (fresh off the boat) can be a bit blunt. I'm half asian, and my Mom is (to put it politely) uber blunt. Good luck. I always like to see biracial couples. Makes me all gooey inside. Biracial children are beau-ti-ful.
Author FairyTail Posted January 4, 2005 Author Posted January 4, 2005 As soon as I read that first line, I started laughing so loud! And yes, he was born and raised in Japan and I met him through a friend when he came to my college, and yes...they ARE a bit too blunt. Yes, being in a biracial couple makes ME all gooey inside...I call him "Rice Picker" and say he has cute little chinky eyes and it makes him laugh and me giggle. And agreed...biracial children are so adorable! And by the way, if that's your picture on your icon, you are utterly gorgeous. I've never seen a stripper who could hold a candle to you, darling.
Adunaphel Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 If this advice can be any good..... - Flip through a women's magazine with pics of male models advertising clothes or parfumes or anything, or surf the internet for a website with a lot of pics of cute guys. - Do not stop until you find at least five pics of guys who are more handsome than your bf. That means that either you judge them more good looking, or you are absolutely sure that -even if *you personaly* like your bf better- they would be picked over your bf at a beauty competition. - Admit to yourself that they look better than him. - Ask to yourself if you still find your bf so special even now that you have -honestly!!!-admitted that there are better-looking guys around. .......feeling any better, now?
Author FairyTail Posted January 4, 2005 Author Posted January 4, 2005 Adunaphel -- That is a very brilliant and clever idea. The problem is...I'm fairly certain that I won't be able to find anyone hotter than him. But, I'm sure as hell going to try. For my sake and for the sake of understanding him. Thank you. And I'm feeling a bit better. He and I had it out last night for a while. He did tell me something very reassuring. He told me that I am the most beautiful girl, physically, he has ever seen in real life.
Pocky Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Maybe having your boyfriend affirm your beauty is important to you, and if it is I don't think anything is wrong with that, but not all women feel that way so maybe he didn't realize this. I'd be more concerned if my husband said he felt the women in porn were more intelligent than me.
Author FairyTail Posted January 4, 2005 Author Posted January 4, 2005 I'm glad that you understand my problem -- women want to know that their men think they're beautiful, and I see no harm in that. I've just grown so tired of competition and I don't want any -- of any kind, mind you -- in my relationship. And yes, the intelligence issue you bother me on an entirely different level. That, I wouldn't ever be able to move on from.
Mustard Bomb Posted January 4, 2005 Posted January 4, 2005 Originally posted by Pocky I'd be more concerned if my husband said he felt the women in porn were more intelligent than me. : D For some reason, imagining this conversation is very funny to me: <while watching Back Door Sluts Nine> Honey, do you think she looks smarter than me? More spatially adapt? Quicker to swallow and synthesize information?
Author FairyTail Posted January 4, 2005 Author Posted January 4, 2005 LOL! Too true, too true! I'm on my quest of trying to find men who are hotter than my beloved, but I am coming up very empty-handed. The only person I can find who is about equal to him would be Kimeru, the singer. (http://www.kimeru.com) He kind of looks like my boyfriend, only Kimeru is a little more girly. I don't know...I'll have to do more studying on this.
dyermaker Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by FairyTail Dyermaker -- He literally told me that he was saying that, in the situation of only physical beauty, I was not the most beautiful girl on Earth. He's quite right. I'll reiterate that he's admirable, but stupid. We have had many a talk about honesty...just none on tact, unfortunately. I think you're confusing your own semantics. Tact is spontaneous, Honesty is solicited. You specifically asked a question, to which he replied honestly. Now, if you'd come home from work, and he blurted out, "There are women who are prettier than you."--That would be an issue of tact. I'm sorry, but I must hold fast to my position on thinking porn actresses are gross. By what virtue are they gross? That they have placed a monetary value on their sexuality? It's hardly about physical appearance, because plenty of porn stars look like normal women. In fact, the highest grossing porn film of all time, and, by most estimates, the highest grossing film of all time, starred an awkward looking girl-next-door type.
alphamale Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by dyermaker In fact, the highest grossing porn film of all time, and, by most estimates, the highest grossing film of all time, starred an awkward looking girl-next-door type. And who was that? Or which movie. I would like to check it out.
dyermaker Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 That would be Deep Throat, and chances are, you already have. By the way, Linda Lovelace, the star of the film, introduced Led Zeppelin at the LA Forum on March 27, 1975.
moimeme Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 but not all women feel that way so maybe he didn't realize this. Exactly. women want to know that their men think they're beautiful Some women do. I am not beautiful and never will be. I do clean up real nice and have certainly been called 'beautiful' but generally I figure the person using the word is being sweet. That's fine by me. I prefer my looks not be the source of attraction because I will age and anybody can become diseased or disfigured. It's the highest compliment to me if a fellow likes my brain and personality. They will endure (well, barring a stroke) when the looks - such as they are - are long gone. : D For some reason, imagining this conversation is very funny to me: <while watching Back Door Sluts Nine> Honey, do you think she looks smarter than me? More spatially adapt? Quicker to swallow and synthesize information? ROTFL!!
moimeme Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 In fact, the highest grossing porn film of all time, and, by most estimates, the highest grossing film of all time, starred an awkward looking girl-next-door type Remember Heidi Fleiss? She was no looker but that lady earned a ton o' bucks as a lady of the evening.
RowanRavyn Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 Originally posted by Pocky Maybe having your boyfriend affirm your beauty is important to you, and if it is I don't think anything is wrong with that, but not all women feel that way so maybe he didn't realize this. I'd be more concerned if my husband said he felt the women in porn were more intelligent than me. I am actually with you there. I put more stock in my intelligence, grace, and kindness than in physical beauty. I have never seen Moi, but I see things much the same way. I am not beautiful. I know this. Not in an aesthetic sense. I have had people tell me I am, but usually I think they mean who I am on the inside.
Author FairyTail Posted January 5, 2005 Author Posted January 5, 2005 Dyermaker -- Well, whether or not he's right is a matter of opinion. I don't quite agree with you. I think people have the ability to use tact when being asked a question. This is my opinion and you have the right to oppose it (which you do) and that's alright. I guess we just do not posess the same opinions. When I say they're gross, I do mean JUST the physical attributes. They just look completely skanky and disgusting to me, not like normal women. When one adds the fact that they sell their bodies and allow anyone to see the parts of their bodies that are legally not to be seen in public, my opinion hits ground zero. Moimeme -- I think your opinion is very good -- and I might have come off as believing that my looks should be first and foremost in my man's opinion, but it isn't true. As I said before, if it would have been a blow to my intelligence or my personality, I would have hit the road by now. And yes, it is true that there are women who don't care whether or not their man thinks they are beautiful. I suppose I just want to be the best to my boyfriend because I want to make him happy in every single way, not lacking in anything. Some people might think it's silly, but I am prone to optimism. Thanks again for your input,
SoleMate Posted January 5, 2005 Posted January 5, 2005 Honey, do you think [that porn actress] is ...quicker to swallow [than me]? She better be. Good one, MustardBomb, keep 'em coming. To FairyTail...I came late to this thread, but I've read through it all. I do have an opinion, much of which has been eloquently expressed above. ...[Honey, I'd like you to] base your response on my inner and outer beauty and my emotional needs... Right. That's what experienced men would do, after they have been victimized by this kind of conversational/emotional ambush one time too many. Tact is certainly needed, and I definitely have noticed that the feeling of love puts a subjective gloss over my perceptions, especially of my children. When I watch them playing, I do often have that feeling of, "There are no children in this world as charming and adorable as mine." But I recognize that this is LOVE, and that others WON'T feel this way. AND...more importantly...if my daughter came to me and said, "Mom, am I the prettiest girl on Earth?" I would answer honestly, "To me, you and your sister are the most beautiful, and I love you dearly." If she kept insisting on knowing whether she was prettier than Girl X on the playground or at her school, or in the TV ad for Gap Kids, I would tell her to get her mind on more important things. I would NOT feed any need she had to be told otherwise. FairyTail, you're so focussed on your need to be told just the right words. How about your bf? He has the "right" to not feel that an honest, caring, relatively tactful response to a question from you is going to get his butt kicked. I bet he didn't even see that one coming. Like Dyer said, I hope this teaches him to be less honest in the future, so you can be happier. If you can't handle the answer, DON'T ask the question. That's the best advice I can give.
mental_traveller Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 "how can my boyfriend say that ANY of those wretched little whores are more beautiful -- by ANY MEANS -- than me? Is it o.k. for a boyfriend to think, let alone say that their girlfriend isn't the most stunning creature they have ever laid their eyes on?" There are over 3 billion women on this planet. The odds of you being the most beautiful person on earth are about the same as the odds of Elvis Presley crash-landing a flying saucer into White House tomorrow. Also, you don't become beautiful just because you think you are - there are certain objective standards, such as symmetry, skin quality, cleanliness, shape of eyes, lips, bone structure etc. As for your previous boyfriends, they were telling white lies, flattering you because they knew what you wanted to hear. They realised you'd get upset if they said otherwise, so they just took the easy route and told some porkies.
dyermaker Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by FairyTail I don't quite agree with you. I think people have the ability to use tact when being asked a question. This is my opinion and you have the right to oppose it (which you do) and that's alright. I guess we just do not posess the same opinions. I think I'm going to agree with the posters. You should 'train' your boyfriend to use more of this 'tact' by explaining to him that you take tremendous stock in your physical appearance, that you're revolted by anyone who would dare consider the profession of pornography, and you insist that he reaffirm your beauty whenever it's threatened by the porn-viewing.
Grinning Maniac Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 I'm glad you two have worked this out, but I think you need some therapy Fairy. I'm sorry, but crying yourself to sleep because someone doesn't feel that you're the "prettiest person on Earth" is just pathetic. Especially when he told you that he love you and wouldn't trade you up for anyone else. You have some serious issues, imo. Also, you say that you want your boyfriend to be honest, but that's BS if you're saying you want him to tell you you're the #1 Hottest Girl on the Planet, REGARDLESS if that's how he really feels. Why exactly is it "necessary" that we BS you ladies? You certainly must know it's a load of crap, right? It's a white lie but still a lie. I don't understand how women are so blatantly shallow and self-abusive. What kind of question is that to ask a person? If you tell them "yes" then you're lying. If you tell them "no" then they start crying? That's just entrapment. You need to love yourself more and stop being so damned worried about what other people think. Are you going to put a bullet in your face when you turn 40? Oh no, you have a wrinkle. Life is no longer worth living. Reading your post made me think of that movie "Se7en", when the woman got her nose cut off by the killer, and when faced with the choice of living disfigured, or *dying*...she downed a bunch of pills. By the way, I've seen many girls in my life, and in porn that are prettier than you. I'm not trying to mess with your fragile little self-image, so dont go slitting your wrists...but seriously. There are tons of girls at my Uni hotter than you. That's life. There's always someone smarter, more talented, or more beautiful than you. If you're going to base your life on how pretty you are, it's going to be a pretty wasted life. Looks fade, babydoll. What are you planning on doing when that day comes? Commiting seppuku? Damn...I still maintain women need to be assigned shrinks at birth. When's the last time you saw a guy weeping non-stop because someone told him Brad Pitt or Denzel was better looking? Come on... PS: Your boyfriend is p-whipped.
moimeme Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 and you insist that he reaffirm your beauty whenever it's threatened by the porn-viewing. You forgot 'and agree with you absolutely that all women in porn are disgusting, ugly, and horrid'. GM, please remember that persons like this do not represent all of womankind.
XNemesisX Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 Ok... so when I responded I was thinking that the porn was the main issue (because it was messing up the computer and stuff). Dyer: No it does NOT! Addiction is a serious issue, not a strategic card to be played when you can't manipulate someone into conforming to your sexual standards through whining. There's not enough information here to even begin to suggest addiction--and, even if there was--you're hardly qualified to diagnose one. Ummm...I think you are nitpicking my words a little too much. Looking at porn to the extent that you are screwing up your computer is a problem, in my opinion. A few days ago, I was browsing my college's website, trying to find when classes were to begin for the semester, when the mouse on my beloved's computer decided to screw up, as it usually does. I was attempting to open a new window in the browser when the small arrow floated over to the "Favorites" panel. I could now see the abundance of porn links he had saved I'm not trying to diagnose a real "addiction" it was just a figure of speech I used. I think if you are saving an "abundance" of porn on your computer like this, then you have a PROBLEM. Excuse me for saying "addiction" since I am not a doctor. But this isn't even the issue. Porn viewing is not what is concerning her, its whether or not he thinks they are prettier. My opinion changes from this point. We women like to think that we are the prettiest things in the world to our boyfriends, but let's face it. We aren't. We might be beautiful because they love us, but this doesn't mean they think we are the most beautiful thing to ever grace the face of the planet. That is incredibly unrealistic. When I was with my ex I would never ask such a question because I already know the answer. Just as other people have said there will ALWAYS be someone prettier and smarter than you. That is just the way it is. One surefire way to make yourself appear uglier is to say that you think you are the most beautiful thing in the world. I don't care if this is what YOU think...please don't tell anyone if you think this. I am not the most beautiful person in the world to myself. I will never believe that I am. Like I said, there is always someone more beautiful. I don't care who you are. I'm sure there is even someone out there in this world that is more attractive than Brad Pitt - imagine that! Humbleness is much more attractive than arrogance. Especially when it comes to how someone thinks they look. My best friend is a model in NYC and she is GORGEOUS. But she doesn't think that she is. That makes her even more beautiful to everyone. She still remains humble and down to earth. Now that I know this is more about attractiveness than the actual porn viewing...I will say this. As much as I hate porn, especially when it is used in EXCESS (kind of repulses me for some reason) I don't think its reasonable to be jealous of them. I don't think they are sub-human or should really be objects. They appear as objects because of their work but in real life they are just people. Most of the people in the adult entertainment industry have some pretty messed up lives. A lot of them are pretty, a lot of them aren't. I would be more concerned with the hot girl your boyfriend knows, or a pretty ex, than some unknown porn star your boyfriend will never meet. They are not a threat. If YOU feel you are beautiful..then why is it so important that he thinks you are the most beautiful woman on earth? (aesthetically). I can assure you that not you, me, anyone on this board, or anyone you know is the most beautiful person in the world. Besides, most people in relationships are supposed to be on "equal level of attractiveness." We talked about this in one of my psychology classes. Even if a more beautiful woman came along, if she is so far more attractive than your boyfriend..she would not be a threat either.
chica Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 Come on people.... give it a rest, can you? Fairytail is not being over the top if you ask me. She hasn't "busted his balls" over it, hasn't gotten hysterical or desperate, hasn't done anything so out of the ordinary or drastic that should warrant these nasty comments! We're talking about her feelings and she is reacting as MOST women would and do in the same situation. Sure there are some chicks out there who dig porn, others that say they don't give a sh*t if their men do - but the bottom line is that they are the minority. The kind of response that you are displaying to this contributes to why most women have insecurities or feelings of hurt and inadequacy when it comes to porn. You are helping to perpetuate the cycle. Well done. Have a little respect for others feelings. chica
dyermaker Posted January 6, 2005 Posted January 6, 2005 Originally posted by YX32Nemesis I'm not trying to diagnose a real "addiction" it was just a figure of speech I used. To remind you, you said: "It sounds like he has an addiction to this stuff." If you don't know what an addiction is, it's harmful to label something as such. If you took a look under someone's hood, told them their spark plugs were bad, but you don't know what spark plugs are, you're not doing them any good. It's not about word choice, it's about a pattern of anti-porn posts that play false doctor and try to medically stigmatize behaviors that don't sit well with them. Originally posted by chica We're talking about her feelings and she is reacting as MOST women would and do in the same situation. Sure there are some chicks out there who dig porn, others that say they don't give a sh*t if their men do - but the bottom line is that they are the minority. See, the porn isn't the issue. It's not about her being okay with porn. She's fine with porn. It's about her being upset that her boyfriend doesn't think she's the most aesthetically pleasing person on the planet, literally--and how she can communicate her clear emotional need for her beauty to be constantly validated to her boyfriend, so that he doesn't make the same mistake again. The kind of response that you are displaying to this contributes to why most women have insecurities or feelings of hurt and inadequacy when it comes to porn. You are helping to perpetuate the cycle. Well done. It's not a cycle. If a girl feels hurt, inadequate, or insecure because of pornography, it is 100% her responsibility. I won't support the infantilization of the female gender as a whole simply because some are too emotionally imbalanced to understand pornography's role in human sexuality. The idea that those who defend porn are responsible for the pain and anxieties of insecure women is laughable--it's like saying that NBC is responsible for Obesity, because they run advertisements for unhealthy food. It's called SELF esteem for a reason, because you have to take responsibility for yourSELF. Have a little respect for others feelings. The trouble with women and the above phrase, is that they'll often use it to manipulate men into conforming to their desires. If you feel that [whatever] is wrong, then a man MUST refrain from [whatever], or else he's not respecting your feelings. That's totally destructive.
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