Rise in feminism among young women?

[Robbyrob]

Do more young women view men like disosable razors today? It seems like they want a good man but end up sleeping with bad boys, having a kid, and then they treat the new nice guy like crap. Anyone else experience this?

 

 

Made too much experience with that!!! The thing is that they often do not see the seriousness of these relationships, they need to grow, to mature...they want to enjoy. at the end they always crawl back because they realized that the good guy still was the better option, too late.

[Woggle]

IMO, those actions have little to do with feminism and more to do with a segment of the population which unfortunately has abandoned civility and decency in their treatment of others. IME, most of the women of my generation who furthered 'feminist' causes would rail at such behaviors. In fact, most of the women I know who have championed for the equal and strong female role in society have long and productive marriages. They know how to get things done, including taking good care of their husbands.

 

I agree with this. The women who actually were on the frontlines fighting for equality are as turned off by the state of things as anybody else. They can'y believe this is what it has devolved into.

 

The women who act like this in most cases would not call themselves feminists. It has more to do with the complete breakdown of the family and community in some segments of society.

[Woggle]

Much of what is being said like what?

 

What I said is what I've realized to be true as well. That there are certain kinds of men who make these complaints and then specifically blame feminism or at some point talk about being a "nice guy"....it is a very particular formula.

 

The romanticizing of the past has to stop. Things change. Such is the world. Some things are no better or worse, simply different. The dating world is different in lots of ways today than it was 50 years ago and also the same in many ways.

 

The point is: people are living their lives as they always were and are still marrying, dating and getting on with life. So it just is sooo freakin bizarre and annoying when people want you to agree that the world is going to hell and all nice guys can't find women because of feminism when in my reality this is absolutely not true. People have always had bad relationships and it's no epidemic now that some people can't find relationships and some can. This has always been life.

 

The way many relationships are these days. I see it around me.

[TheBigQuestion]

I don't see what your question has to do with feminism.

 

What I do know is that each and all "nice guys" who complain about being a "nice guy" and how all women and the world treat them badly because of "feminism" etc. and they just don't know a good thing tend to have issues.

 

 

 

It's worth noting that OP is asking a hypothetical question. He's not doing what you claim he is doing at all. He is not blaming the entirety of whatever poor treatment he's experienced at the hands of women on feminism. And even if the OP's statements DID come from a perennial lovable loser or "nice guy," you should be commenting on the merits of his claims rather than trying to disparage him on the basis of membership to a class of people that he may or may not be a part of.

Edited December 17, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Conforming content retained

[MrCastle]

The way things are right now, are not good. Sorry for the sweeping generalizations I'm about to make, but it's been my experience.

 

Most women my age or around there (26) seem to think "equal rights" means expecting men to fill traditional roles while living up to none of theirs.

 

Most women prefer to date a man who makes more than her. Expects him to be a manly man. Someone that can fix things around the house, do the dirty work, etc. At the same time, ignore traditional female responsibilities like cooking or cleaning.

 

I'm not saying I want to go back to the "good old days" where women were seen and not heard. Where they were barefoot and pregnant. However, if I'm supposed to fill my antiquated roles of provider and protector, then you have to fill your roles too. Or, if you want to break that mold and be more liberal -- then that means paying your own way on dates from time to time, calling or texting men and setting up dates as opposed to having him do all the work.

 

I mean you can't scream for things to be equal, but then continue to have antiquated views on dating where they suit you.

 

As well, "feminist" these days seems to mean "man hater." Most women I know who are self proclaimed feminists are either jealous of other women, or hate men, or both. They'll complain about women like Megan Fox getting roles for her looks, and say it's an unrealistic body for women to aspire to have -- then drool when Channing Tatum takes his shirt off in a film, and not say anything about how that's an unrealistic body for men to aspire to have.

 

It's just a lot of bitterness and loathing towards men for no other reason than bad experiences with them. It's no different than the bitter men on here who think all women are evil because a few girls broke their hearts.

 

I am all for equal voting rights, equal pay -- pretty much equal in every way. But when it comes to dating and relationships, either you're progressive, and open minded, or you're traditional. And if traditional means you expect me to pay for all our dates, make more money than you, and do all the yardwork -- I expect dinner on the table when I come home.

[Under The Radar]

The way things are right now, are not good. Sorry for the sweeping generalizations I'm about to make, but it's been my experience.

 

Most women my age or around there (26) seem to think "equal rights" means expecting men to fill traditional roles while living up to none of theirs.

 

Most women prefer to date a man who makes more than her. Expects him to be a manly man. Someone that can fix things around the house, do the dirty work, etc. At the same time, ignore traditional female responsibilities like cooking or cleaning.

 

I'm not saying I want to go back to the "good old days" where women were seen and not heard. Where they were barefoot and pregnant. However, if I'm supposed to fill my antiquated roles of provider and protector, then you have to fill your roles too. Or, if you want to break that mold and be more liberal -- then that means paying your own way on dates from time to time, calling or texting men and setting up dates as opposed to having him do all the work.

 

I mean you can't scream for things to be equal, but then continue to have antiquated views on dating where they suit you.

 

As well, "feminist" these days seems to mean "man hater." Most women I know who are self proclaimed feminists are either jealous of other women, or hate men, or both. They'll complain about women like Megan Fox getting roles for her looks, and say it's an unrealistic body for women to aspire to have -- then drool when Channing Tatum takes his shirt off in a film, and not say anything about how that's an unrealistic body for men to aspire to have.

 

It's just a lot of bitterness and loathing towards men for no other reason than bad experiences with them. It's no different than the bitter men on here who think all women are evil because a few girls broke their hearts.

 

I am all for equal voting rights, equal pay -- pretty much equal in every way. But when it comes to dating and relationships, either you're progressive, and open minded, or you're traditional. And if traditional means you expect me to pay for all our dates, make more money than you, and do all the yardwork -- I expect dinner on the table when I come home.

 

 

This has often been my experience, too.

[TheBigQuestion]

The way things are right now, are not good. Sorry for the sweeping generalizations I'm about to make, but it's been my experience.

 

Most women my age or around there (26) seem to think "equal rights" means expecting men to fill traditional roles while living up to none of theirs.

 

Most women prefer to date a man who makes more than her. Expects him to be a manly man. Someone that can fix things around the house, do the dirty work, etc. At the same time, ignore traditional female responsibilities like cooking or cleaning.

 

I'm not saying I want to go back to the "good old days" where women were seen and not heard. Where they were barefoot and pregnant. However, if I'm supposed to fill my antiquated roles of provider and protector, then you have to fill your roles too. Or, if you want to break that mold and be more liberal -- then that means paying your own way on dates from time to time, calling or texting men and setting up dates as opposed to having him do all the work.

 

I mean you can't scream for things to be equal, but then continue to have antiquated views on dating where they suit you.

 

As well, "feminist" these days seems to mean "man hater." Most women I know who are self proclaimed feminists are either jealous of other women, or hate men, or both. They'll complain about women like Megan Fox getting roles for her looks, and say it's an unrealistic body for women to aspire to have -- then drool when Channing Tatum takes his shirt off in a film, and not say anything about how that's an unrealistic body for men to aspire to have.

 

It's just a lot of bitterness and loathing towards men for no other reason than bad experiences with them. It's no different than the bitter men on here who think all women are evil because a few girls broke their hearts.

 

I am all for equal voting rights, equal pay -- pretty much equal in every way. But when it comes to dating and relationships, either you're progressive, and open minded, or you're traditional. And if traditional means you expect me to pay for all our dates, make more money than you, and do all the yardwork -- I expect dinner on the table when I come home.

 

I'm glad one of us still has the energy to point these things out.

 

When it comes to the attitudes of present-day feminist women in particular, this post describes the situation perfectly.

[theothersully]

A tangled mess, but I notice a marked decrease in feminism among the 20-30 yo crowd.

 

Women, despite behaving deplorably in many cases, do want to be women and have men be men. They are not about equality in gender roles and get pissed off if you miss a beat in being "the man." Certainly i had to adjust my antiquated "we are all equals" bs to deal with the women in this age range...

 

The do not even like the word feminism because they feel it has turned men into whimps... and by and large, it has.

[theothersully]

it never ceases to amaze me how endlessly

antifeminists complain about whimpiness.

 

An even more amazing....

 

 

All the people you would label as anti-feminist that I personally know, are women between tha ages of 19 and 32.

 

They are dead set on these divided gender roles, as far as I have had experience with them.

 

I was raised that we are equals everywhere in a relationship. This is too whimpy for the younger girls. I have to go outside my natural tendency and take on an extra mannish role beyond normal. It's what is required with these girls.

 

Got into trouble last week. Girl wanted to hook up "hang out/f*ck" and I didn't put the moves on fast enough for her. So she yells at me that I am the man. lol I like to create a little sexual tension.... string it out an hour or two flirting, etc. She thought I should have just immediately taken her out of the club and went home to "hang out." Because I was being seductive about it, I got yelled at! lol Was not man enough. She made no move at all through the sexual tension I created with her, later saying that was my job as a man... to make the move fast instead of getting her really going. This was why she got mad. These are the gender role things I deal with on a daily basis with girls 19 to 30ish. They do not like equality or the word feminism. They think it makes them manish.

[Under The Radar]

MrCastle's original post on page 3 was the most accurate representation of what I've experienced in the dating world. Furthermore, it was NOT an attack on females or a plea for skewed rights. It was impressively considerate and well thought out on behalf of both genders.

 

I guess it depends on what definition any one person assigns to feminism. I have many friends and clients who identify with feminism. The difference is that they want the men to have the same equal rights that they have hard won. It's not about misandry or misogyny when they consider the big picture. No relationship or even casual dating can survive that type of paradigm construction.

 

The quest for rights and treatment beyond female equality has forever changed the dating landscape for many men (not a complaint ... just an observation). Unfortunately, I have experienced a sense of entitlement (from some women) that oversteps the equality boundary and flows into an imbalanced perspective on this issue.

 

Quite simply, some men are being relegated to both male and female traditional gender role responsibilities. In other words, it's my job to paint the house, take out the garbage, and walk the dog WHILE ALSO vacuuming the carpet, making dinner, and doing the laundry. How is that even remotely fair or sustainable?

 

Let a spade be a spade and exercise equality as it is defined in the dictionary.

[ltjg45]

I am all for equity among men and women.

 

What I am not against is women thinking they are the more superior gender and thinks they can do no wrong.....and when they get called out for it, they get very defensive about it.

[Grumpybutfun]

 

The way things are right now, are not good. Sorry for the sweeping

generalizations I'm about to make, but it's been my experience.

 

Most women my age or around there (26) seem to think "equal rights" means

expecting men to fill traditional roles while living up to none of theirs.

 

Most women prefer to date a man who makes more than her. Expects him to be a

manly man. Someone that can fix things around the house, do the dirty work, etc.

At the same time, ignore traditional female responsibilities like cooking or

cleaning.

 

I'm not saying I want to go back to the "good old days" where women were seen

and not heard. Where they were barefoot and pregnant. However, if I'm supposed

to fill my antiquated roles of provider and protector, then you have to fill

your roles too. Or, if you want to break that mold and be more liberal -- then

that means paying your own way on dates from time to time, calling or texting

men and setting up dates as opposed to having him do all the work.

 

I mean you can't scream for things to be equal, but then continue to have

antiquated views on dating where they suit you.

As well, "feminist" these days seems to mean "man hater." Most women I know

who are self proclaimed feminists are either jealous of other women, or hate

men, or both. They'll complain about women like Megan Fox getting roles for her

looks, and say it's an unrealistic body for women to aspire to have -- then

drool when Channing Tatum takes his shirt off in a film, and not say anything

about how that's an unrealistic body for men to aspire to have.

 

 

 

Castle:

Is this feminism or is this entitlement/being a brat/low self-esteem issues? It seems there are two definitions of feminism and that is a shame because as you pointed out, the one that mattered (equal rights) is the only one that should matter. These women you described aren't feminists to me, but entitled brats who have no idea how to have a healthy relationship.

My nephews are 17-28 and I get bombarded by the same things you are referring to. I tell them to date better/kinder women. I know they exist because I also have nieces and goddaughters around their ages and they are traditional while having/wanting careers and individuality. They can cook and clean and hunt and fix muscle cars because my wife and I taught them both (just in case.) My nephews got the same lessons. They are all good catches for either gender.

Feminism being used to describe man hating entitled brats is a slap in the face to real feminism. Men and women have always had the gender war going on, but the fight now seems to be more with bitterness of a few entitled brats than with gender.

Good conversation,

Grumps

Edited December 16, 2013 by Grumpybutfun

[Taramere]

Feminism being used to describe man hating entitled brats is a slap in the face to real feminism. Men and women have always had the gender war going on, but the fight now seems to be more with bitterness of a few entitled brats than with gender.

 

Exactly. People who are very preoccupied with their rights but not so concerned with their responsibilities (nor with other people's rights). I don't think either sex has the monopoly over that behaviour. It tends to be related to maturity, temperament and upbringing more than to gender.

[Under The Radar]

Castle:

Is this feminism or is this entitlement/being a brat/low self-esteem issues? It seems there are two definitions of feminism and that is a shame because as you pointed out, the one that mattered (equal rights) is the only one that should matter. These women you described aren't feminists to me, but entitled brats who have no idea how to have a healthy relationship.

My nephews are 17-28 and I get bombarded by the same things you are referring to. I tell them to date better/kinder women. I know they exist because I also have nieces and goddaughters around their ages and they are traditional while having/wanting careers and individuality. They can cook and clean and hunt and fix muscle cars because my wife and I taught them both (just in case.) My nephews got the same lessons. They are all good catches for either gender.

Feminism being used to describe man hating entitled brats is a slap in the face to real feminism. Men and women have always had the gender war going on, but the fight now seems to be more with bitterness of a few entitled brats than with gender.

Good conversation,

Grumps

 

 

^^^^^This^^^^^

 

Feminism = Gender Equality (which is an undeniably good thing)

 

The problem, and I think this is what MrCastle was referring too, is that it seems (in the dating world) that entitled brats are becoming more and more the norm, and then rationalizing their behavior as feminism. That's not feminism, but hiding behind the movement as a shield, so you can be an entitled brat.

 

So yes, the concept and word feminism has been bastardized by many people to mean completely different things. I'm close to 40 years old and have experienced many times what your nephews are complaining to you about. The dating landscape has considerably changed just in the past ten years because it seems the definition of feminism is in a continual state of flux.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Training Revelations

[William]

Here's the report:

 

"claiming that women who identify as feminist is 'supporting an ideology & political movement which openly operates on the assumption that all men are rapists',

is inflammatory. & use of feminism as pejorative violates the language & decency guideline.

 

& berating & misrepresenting/slandering/libelous remarks against a group: feminists, & in particular women who identify as feminists, is hate speech against a protected group."

 

I went back and read the thread topic and wondered to myself how this came to be. Hence, I'll queue this for Robert and I to take a look at and process the thread according to our guidelines without regard to race, gender or religious affiliation. Everyone gets treated equally. I trust it will work out just fine.

 

Update: Well, with all the off-topic excursions into political rhetoric, forum politics, legal arguments and, of all things, rape, we were able to rescue the thread with only two main players on moderation, a few infractions and warnings and oh, 90 or so postings deleted.

 

Our head moderator has advised us that, once a thread merits closing, it's usually wise to leave it closed and, in this case, he's brilliant.

 

Thanks for your participation!

Edited December 17, 2013 by William
Thread processed.