Rise in feminism among young women?

[ponchsox]

Do more young women view men like disosable razors today? It seems like they want a good man but end up sleeping with bad boys, having a kid, and then they treat the new nice guy like crap. Anyone else experience this?

[TheBigQuestion]

Do more young women view men like disosable razors today? It seems like they want a good man but end up sleeping with bad boys, having a kid, and then they treat the new nice guy like crap. Anyone else experience this?

 

Plenty of people have experienced this, and yes, feminism definitely plays a role in men being treated like "disposable razors."

Edited December 17, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Political rhetoric and comments about LoveShack redacted

[Taramere]

My understanding of feminism is that it's about equality. Women having the freedom to make choices that were traditionally only available to/taken up by men.

Edited December 17, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[ponchsox]

My understanding of feminism is that it's about equality. Women having the freedom to make choices that were traditionally only available to/taken up by men.

 

 

I'm speaking about feminism in terms of women who don't need a man in a committed relationship. They may already have what they want, a kid from an estranged ex, and they want to be Disney moms in control. When they feel the need for sex, they know they can reach out to a friend or find someone online without any strings because there are plenty of loser guys out there looking for the same. The pressure of a relationship and actually giving something in return is of no interest to them.

Edited December 17, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edited quote

[TheBigQuestion]

I'm speaking about feminism in terms of women who don't need a man in a committed relationship. They may already have what they want, a kid from an estranged ex, and they want to be Disney moms in control. When they feel the need for sex, they know they can reach out to a friend or find someone online without any strings because there are plenty of loser guys out there looking for the same. The pressure of a relationship and actually giving something in return is of no interest to them.

 

The "I don't need a man" attitude certainly arises out of mainstream feminism. That and listening to too many Beyonce songs.

 

Sure, you don't NEED a man to survive, but most of the time, your kids are better off being raised by two married parents. Most of the single moms I know in my age range (mid 20s) are the trashy broads I knew in high school who were dumb as a brick, and who will probably raise trashy, dysfunctional, quasi-criminal or full-blown criminal children.

[Taramere]

I'm speaking about feminism in terms of women who don't need a man in a committed relationship. They may already have what they want, a kid from an estranged ex, and they want to be Disney moms in control. When they feel the need for sex, they know they can reach out to a friend or find someone online without any strings because there are plenty of loser guys out there looking for the same. The pressure of a relationship and actually giving something in return is of no interest to them.

 

I think feminism is generally one of these words that gets applied to a whole range of behaviour and situations that involve women. People who are pro-feminism will cite women who have accomplished positive things as feminists, and those who are anti-feminist will present irresponsible or selfish behaviour as typically feminist in its nature.

 

The labels people choose to apply to themselves can be very misleading - especially when it comes to concepts like feminism that encompass a vast range of behaviours and ideologies - some of which you might approve or and some of which you might hate. Thinking in terms of these labels - dividing women into "good" responsible, considerate and fair non-feminist and "bad" irresponsible, selfish and unfair feminist won't necessarily be helpful to you or assist you in making good choices.

[Grumpybutfun]

What you are describing is social equality. Does it mean they hate men, or that they just aren't into you right now? Plenty of women meet, date, sleep with and marry men so they obviously are fraternizing with the enemy if they hate men. I see that you focus on women not liking men due to outside forces because of an ex of yours, ponchsox. Perhaps you need to focus on what was not working with the two of you and stop trying to find excuses for why she dumped you in political and social constructs.

 

I am married to a feminist and we have a traditional household...feminism is all about equality...the one you are referring to is social equality. Women just don't need men anymore for finance, social or status. Sucks for men who can't handle an equal in a relationship, but it completely works for those of us who see women as independent and fascinating human beings.

 

Women and men are both complex and trying to make feminism into some sort of ball busting generalization is shortsighted to say the least. Perhaps bust out the history books and read up on equal rights for women. You might learn a great deal about real feminism and not this quasi-sociological excuse you made up to understand why women aren't jumping through hoops to land a man and raise his children like in the good ole days. Making women feel as though you are their enemy isn't really going to help your cause which is to get into exclusive relationships and raise families. Nothing turns women off more than ignorance and saying feminism has nothing to do with equality (The Big Question) is akin to saying the earth is flat.

I know I will be blasted as the rhetoric should be about bashing the females because they won't sleep with you or have LTR with you, but I am actually trying to help you because you are shooting yourselves in the foot with this nonsense.

IMHO,

Grumps

[ponchsox]

What you are describing is social equality. Does it mean they hate men, or that they just aren't into you right now? Plenty of women meet, date, sleep with and marry men so they obviously are fraternizing with the enemy if they hate men. I see that you focus on women not liking men due to outside forces because of an ex of yours, ponchsox. Perhaps you need to focus on what was not working with the two of you and stop trying to find excuses for why she dumped you in political and social constructs.

 

I am married to a feminist and we have a traditional household...feminism is all about equality...the one you are referring to is social equality. Women just don't need men anymore for finance, social or status. Sucks for men who can't handle an equal in a relationship, but it completely works for those of us who see women as independent and fascinating human beings.

 

Women and men are both complex and trying to make feminism into some sort of ball busting generalization is shortsighted to say the least. Perhaps bust out the history books and read up on equal rights for women. You might learn a great deal about real feminism and not this quasi-sociological excuse you made up to understand why women aren't jumping through hoops to land a man and raise his children like in the good ole days. Making women feel as though you are their enemy isn't really going to help your cause which is to get into exclusive relationships and raise families. Nothing turns women off more than ignorance and saying feminism has nothing to do with equality (The Big Question) is akin to saying the earth is flat.

I know I will be blasted as the rhetoric should be about bashing the females because they won't sleep with you or have LTR with you, but I am actually trying to help you because you are shooting yourselves in the foot with this nonsense.

IMHO,

Grumps

 

So you don't believe what I said is happening at all in society today? I find that to be a little naive. I'm not lumping all feminists into one category. I respect a woman who has her own interests and I'm all for equality. It's been my observation that some, not all women, no longer want a man and a relationship in a traditional sense. They have that right, but its not for me.

[TheBigQuestion]

Nothing turns women off more than ignorance and saying feminism has nothing to do with equality (The Big Question) is akin to saying the earth is flat.

 

Assuming a particular thing turns women off more than anything else is pretty ignorant in itself because it's a conclusion that can't be verified.

Edited December 17, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Grumpybutfun]

Hi ponchsox:

I think you misunderstood. Loss of traditional roles and values is happening because of social constructs changing due to equal rights, but it isn't necessarily just women who are perpetuating this. Many men IRL and on this board do not want a traditional relationship either. Look at all the threads started that refers to marriage or traditional roles not being good for men. There are two sides to this and yes, while social feminism definitely has a hand in this, it isn't just women who are changing their views on traditional roles. Some men do not want to be the primary breadwinner or to contribute to anothers' economic status. To be fair, both are individual values and should be respected as such, but feminism isn't contributing to it as women hating men, but as women not needing men as they used to, and vice versa. For example, more men are adopting children or being single fathers because they can now make choices about what was once considered feminine roles. Also, more men are opting out of marriage and having more monogamous LTRs than ever before while having children. It is very interesting, really.

Good chat,

Grumps

Edited December 15, 2013 by Grumpybutfun

[Eggplant]

While women are saying "I don't need a man," men are also saying "I don't need a woman."

 

I consider myself a feminist, and I have no problem saying "I need a man." But young American men don't seem to want families.

[ponchsox]

While women are saying "I don't need a man," men are also saying "I don't need a woman."

 

I consider myself a feminist, and I have no problem saying "I need a man." But young American men don't seem to want families.

 

Do you find older men (mid thirties and beyond) are more likely to want a family or does age not matter?

[Eggplant]

Do you find older men (mid thirties and beyond) are more likely to want a family or does age not matter?

I don't know.

[ponchsox]

I don't know.

 

I know I want a family but I can't seem to find a woman that does. I have no problems getting dates and relationships but they always end up going nowhere because of big differences.

 

My last GF wanted separate bank accounts and wanted to go to different churches if we got married? WTF?

[Eggplant]

Do you find older men (mid thirties and beyond) are more likely to want a family or does age not matter?

 

Most of the good men, I notice, do get married in their mid to late 20's. There just aren't very many of them. The old men in their mid-late 30's usually have baggage. A divorce is a red flag. Plus, it's healthier for a baby if the father is younger. Older sperm carry higher risks, plus the dad will be in a walker by the time the kid graduates high school.

[ponchsox]

Most of the good men, I notice, do get married in their mid to late 20's. There just aren't very many of them. The old men in their mid-late 30's usually have baggage. A divorce is a red flag. Plus, it's healthier for a baby if the father is younger. Older sperm carry higher risks, plus the dad will be in a walker by the time the kid graduates high school.

 

Well I guess I'm screwed, no pun intended

[Eggplant]

Well I guess I'm screwed, no pun intended

You are not screwed. You're looking for a family? You'll be fine.

[Grumpybutfun]

Ponchsox:

Women don't hate men when they exercise their freedom to choose anymore than men hate women because women no longer choose them. Both might have some bitterness because the roles are harder to define now. Actually new social equality actually is a good thing as women are with you because they want to be, not because they have to be. Many women in the past married because it was expected and they needed men for money, social status and freedom from their households. As Eggplant says, there are many women who are feminists who still want traditional marriages or LTRs. I think as some people do get older they value the family more, and want to build something lasting.

Best,

Grumps

 

p.s. If someone doesn't want the same thing as you like joint bank accounts and to enjoy worship with you are probably not the best long term fit for you anyway. Good to get those things in the open early on so you can move on when it doesn't correlate.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Grumpybutfun

[Iguanna]

What I find weird with feminism is that, while it's meant to be about women having the choice to do whatever pleases them in their life, women who CHOOSE to stay at home and raise their kids are often called various names, like useless, lazy, found a man and she is taking advantage of him and in general she is not really appreciated by the society. I know that in the US it's not like this very much but in other countries this exists.

 

My opinion about feminism is that it gave women new rights along with new obligations but women now have to deal with both new AND old obligations which drives them crazy. I'm talking of course about career and maternity issues and how they can successfully fit in a woman's life. I guess there will be a time when our grand-grand kids will have solved this matter, but I don't see this happening any soon.

[Woggle]

This reallys is why I laugh when some women complain about there being no good men. If good men were treated better then more men would want to be like this.

 

Before women say this is how men have always treated women I ask if all a good man has to look forward is being made to pay for the sins of other men what motivation is there for a man to be like that? The jerks and scum get free sex and to dodge responsibility and the good guys get played and get the brunt of the anti male rage from these women.

 

This is why many men just don't want to grow up and commit these days. Before the Red Robins of this forum complain about men today they should think about this.

 

In general though the state of relationships from both sides is just screwed beyond repair. It might take a few generations before things fix themselves.

[Under The Radar]

I'm all for gender equality and have always perceived feminism as a good thing. Are there some man hating feminists out there? Absolutely, but they are in the minority.

 

However, it would be intellectually dishonest to say that traditional gender role construction hasn't changed over the years. As a result, the dating landscape HAS significantly changed.

[MissBee]

Do more young women view men like disosable razors today? It seems like they want a good man but end up sleeping with bad boys, having a kid, and then they treat the new nice guy like crap. Anyone else experience this?

 

I don't see what your question has to do with feminism.

 

What I do know is that each and all "nice guys" who complain about being a "nice guy" and how all women and the world treat them badly because of "feminism" etc. and they just don't know a good thing tend to have issues.

[Woggle]

I am in a happy marriage but even I realize that much of what is being said in this thread is true. People in happy relationships seem to blind themselves to how things are these days.

Edited December 17, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Reference to deleted post redacted

[MissBee]

I am in a happy marriage but even I realize that much of what is being said in this thread is true. People in happy relationships seem to blind themselves to how things are these days.

 

Much of what is being said like what?

 

What I said is what I've realized to be true as well. That there are certain kinds of men who make these complaints and then specifically blame feminism or at some point talk about being a "nice guy"....it is a very particular formula.

 

The romanticizing of the past has to stop. Things change. Such is the world. Some things are no better or worse, simply different. The dating world is different in lots of ways today than it was 50 years ago and also the same in many ways.

 

The point is: people are living their lives as they always were and are still marrying, dating and getting on with life. So it just is sooo freakin bizarre and annoying when people want you to agree that the world is going to hell and all nice guys can't find women because of feminism when in my reality this is absolutely not true. People have always had bad relationships and it's no epidemic now that some people can't find relationships and some can. This has always been life.

[carhill]

Do more young women view men like disosable razors today? It seems like they want a good man but end up sleeping with bad boys, having a kid, and then they treat the new nice guy like crap. Anyone else experience this?

IMO, those actions have little to do with feminism and more to do with a segment of the population which unfortunately has abandoned civility and decency in their treatment of others. IME, most of the women of my generation who furthered 'feminist' causes would rail at such behaviors. In fact, most of the women I know who have championed for the equal and strong female role in society have long and productive marriages. They know how to get things done, including taking good care of their husbands.