Question from MM to OW

[Aspasia33]

ZMm,

I would discuss this with your OW.. She is a big part of why you are feeling this way, and she also has a right to know your thought process.

 

It doesn't mean nesesariky that it will work out with her, but at least you can be in a position that you can both explore the relationship openly.

I have learnt in my 5 year affair to be as honest and vulnerable as possible with my MM... This may sound strange, but as I am lying to everyone else, I don't want there to be lies between us.

I would also look at getting personal counceling, to help with the transition in becoming your own person?

You sound like a sensitive kind man, you have not done anything wrong, life is complicated, and your inquiring into your deeper stuff takes guts( as does being on this forum:)

[Aspasia33]

And zMM.. You don't need to ask your OW to wait, that is a desion she will or will not make on her own.

You simply say that you are sorting out your life, you would love to explore your relationship with her openly if you can, but you are going to work on yourself:)

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Were you married during that time? Just curious.

 

Yes and I still am.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Aspasia brings up some very good points. I think it is very difficult to jump out of a marriage where there is security. I know for a fact my xmom considered it for a time but he was concerned about leaving his wife and breaking up his home and then I wouldn't want him anymore. He said that to me directly.

 

At the time, of course, I felt like I would have left for him so I was adamant that would never happen. But now, looking back, I don't know. Odds would have been heavily against us. His BS is deeply loved by his family and it would have taken years, if ever, for me to be accepted (even though they already knew me and presumably loved me at the time and loved my kids). My kids would have probably have a very difficult time accepting xmom into their lives as they absolutely adore their father. I know my dad would have been okay eventually (even though he adores my husband), but it still would have been rough going for awhile.

 

At any rate, what I am trying to say is there is always risk. Nothing is a guarantee. A person can change their minds tomorrow. The task at hand is to figure out your own relationship, if it is worth saving and then are you okay being on your own without OW or OM in your life because ultimately that is a high possibility.

 

Very difficult roads to navigate.

[Popsicle]

Yes and I still am.

 

Why did it end then?

 

And zMM.. You don't need to ask your OW to wait, that is a desion she will or will not make on her own.

You simply say that you are sorting out your life, you would love to explore your relationship with her openly if you can, but you are going to work on yourself:)

 

Are you married too?

[ZMM]

ZMm,

I would discuss this with your OW.. She is a big part of why you are feeling this way, and she also has a right to know your thought process.

 

I think she knows.

[flowingmane]

ZMM, sure wish we could have an offline conversation. Your posts have helped so much with my own situation as an OW, struggling with watching my MM face some of the same issues. He does not share with me what he is thinking, when things will happen, just reassures me that it is coming soon (and backs it up with his actions... but oh it seems so slowwwly to me...)

 

I shared my insecurities with him over the last couple weeks, and I think I hurt him badly. Reading your posts made me realize even more how hard this is on him, and not just what I am going through.

 

Not helping you, but wanted you to know that in a small way, you are helping me.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Why did it end then?

 

You probably need to read my posts. His wife found out first - didn't want anyone to know so between the three of us we kept this horrible secret and they continued to come in and out of our house - we went to dinner together, church, vacationed, etc. Them dday 2 came where my husband found out. Big blow up - pastors found out and decided to read our names before the church congregation. Lots of people involved and lots of control - so much emotion, made to go no contact (albeit we did have contact for a few months) - had one last meeting about four months later to bury a box for a baby I lost - and one quick phone conversation after that and short of passing him in a car and seeing him one time in a public place, no contact now for over 3 1/2 years. Bottom line is he has young children, his wife wanted to try to reconcile and so he did. My husband wanted to try to reconcile and so we are. Rarely to spouses act how you think they are going to act on dday.

 

It was a clusterf$$k I never, ever want to be a part of again.

Edited December 22, 2013 by lilmisscantbewrong

[Popsicle]

ZMM, sure wish we could have an offline conversation. Your posts have helped so much with my own situation as an OW, struggling with watching my MM face some of the same issues. He does not share with me what he is thinking, when things will happen, just reassures me that it is coming soon (and backs it up with his actions... but oh it seems so slowwwly to me...)

 

I shared my insecurities with him over the last couple weeks, and I think I hurt him badly. Reading your posts made me realize even more how hard this is on him, and not just what I am going through.

 

Not helping you, but wanted you to know that in a small way, you are helping me.

 

Welcome. I'm sure the lack of communication of feelings kills you. I wonder if it kills him?

 

You probably need to read my posts. His wife found out first - didn't want anyone to know so between the three of us we kept this horrible secret and they continued to come in and out of our house - we went to dinner together, church, vacationed, etc. Them dday 2 came where my husband found out. Big blow up - pastors found out and decided to read our names before the church congregation. Lots of people involved and lots of control - so much emotion, made to go no contact (albeit we did have contact for a few months) - had one last meeting about four months later to bury a box for a baby I lost - and one quick phone conversation after that and short of passing him in a car and seeing him one time in a public place, no contact now for over 3 1/2 years. Bottom line is he has young children, his wife wanted to try to reconcile and so he did. My husband wanted to try to reconcile and so we are. Rarely to spouses act how you think they are going to act on dday.

 

It was a clusterf$$k I never, ever want to be a part of again.

 

Wow, that a nightmare. I'm sorry you went through that.

[flowingmane]

Thx Popsicle. Not going to usurp ZMMs thread so will back out after saying plans are what is not being shared by my MM, feelings are well known. Why I can relate to the posts ZMM is making, although our situations are different.

[ZMM]

Yes, that would be nice. Too bad they make you wait so long before getting PMs.

 

Your posts have helped so much with my own situation as an OW, struggling with watching my MM face some of the same issues. He does not share with me what he is thinking, when things will happen, just reassures me that it is coming soon (and backs it up with his actions... but oh it seems so slowwwly to me...)

 

I am really glad it has helped you out. He probably has a great deal of conflict regarding this - I am guessing he would like to share that with you, but has reasons why he shouldn't. I know I have started to say things through text or email and before ever sending, just erasing it all and keeping it inside.

 

I shared my insecurities with him over the last couple weeks, and I think I hurt him badly. Reading your posts made me realize even more how hard this is on him, and not just what I am going through.

 

I bet it did hurt him. It's a bad feeling when you can't do something right away that you feel you want and should do. I don't know how to word this, but it's difficult to be with one person and be in love with someone else, while you are trying to figure things out. It seems it would be much easier to work through if you were alone. I am sure it is difficult from both sides.

 

Thanks for the post. Maybe after we both get setup as Established members, we can PM. If, at that time, we could be of any help to each other.

 

Take Care FM

[ZMM]

plans are what is not being shared by my MM, feelings are well known

 

I understand.

[flowingmane]

I understand.

 

I don't know if this helps you, but he told me he had let me down. He said he apologized for not doing what he should be doing. I don't know if it was sincere or if it was in hope of ending the conversation - I'm cynical this morning, but at the time it sounded sincere. What hurt me is that he stopped dead after adding "this has been hard on me too you know".

 

I don't know if your OW has perceived similar from you, in feeling encouraged through your interactions and relationship, only to feel shut down cold when anything requiring a concrete answer comes up. You don't have an answer, but if you could do anything at all to show you love her, sincerely (if you truly do), and stand by her for sharing her emotions on the subject, maybe she will be able to give you that time and still be there if you wish her to be.

 

Might be full of crap with that suggestion, but maybe my pain can help someone else.

[Nothisgirl]

I don't know if this helps you, but he told me he had let me down. He said he apologized for not doing what he should be doing. I don't know if it was sincere or if it was in hope of ending the conversation - I'm cynical this morning, but at the time it sounded sincere. What hurt me is that he stopped dead after adding "this has been hard on me too you know".

 

.

 

Our mm sound very similar.. We've had that exact conversation...god, its so hard

[Aspasia33]

Not sure if this is directed at me Pops, but yes, I am married.

 

Why did it end then?

Are you married too?

[Popsicle]

I think this forum is great. It helps a lot of people.

 

Not sure if this is directed at me Pops, but yes, I am married.

 

Yeah it was.

[ZMM]

I don't know if this helps you, but he told me he had let me down. He said he apologized for not doing what he should be doing. I don't know if it was sincere or if it was in hope of ending the conversation - I'm cynical this morning, but at the time it sounded sincere. What hurt me is that he stopped dead after adding "this has been hard on me too you know".

 

I don't know your MM, but my guess is he meant it and truly feels bad for taking so long or as he put it not doing what he should be doing. I'm not sure of your time frame and how many other things he has going on in his life, but that can sometimes be a consideration. I have never said that to my OW, but I don't think she is quite as open with me. She does it more in the way of comments she has made and by her actions. If we were PMing, I would tell you a lot more, but I don't want to put too much detail in this public forum.

 

Also, you don't know how many times I started to tell her how hard it is for me. I never have. I also don't tell her some of the issues I have to deal with regarding this whole ordeal. I guess I don't want to burden her with my end and figure she has enough to deal with of her own. I wouldn't be surprised if your MM regretted saying that.

 

I don't know if your OW has perceived similar from you, in feeling encouraged through your interactions and relationship, only to feel shut down cold when anything requiring a concrete answer comes up. You don't have an answer, but if you could do anything at all to show you love her, sincerely (if you truly do), and stand by her for sharing her emotions on the subject, maybe she will be able to give you that time and still be there if you wish her to be.

 

I know she is frustrated that I am taking so long, she had pretty much said that recently. But, quite frankly, I was confused by her mixed messages and just started figuring out what she really was saying.

 

But, I would be there for her, if she actually did open up like that. I think she may also be hesitant to put any pressure on me, at least directly. Indirectly, she has put a whole lot of pressure on me though, But, that did stir me into action to figure out what was going on. I don't know, maybe had she been more open and told me what she really wanted, that may have worked as well. But, instead I was kind of confused and left trying to figure things out.

 

Might be full of crap with that suggestion, but maybe my pain can help someone else.

 

You are definitely not full of crap. But, keep in mind, there may be some things going on that are extremely hard for him to deal with and he may not tell you those details because he doesn't want to burden you with it and he may feel that it would actually hinder your relationship with him in the future. I don't know, but it is possible.

 

Thanks for talking to me. You are one of several OWs on this forum that have been extremely helpful to me in working out my problems. As a MM in an A, sometimes you feel like a pariah on this forum.

Edited December 23, 2013 by ZMM

[OldRover]

Why did it end then?

 

You probably need to read my posts. His wife found out first - didn't want anyone to know so between the three of us we kept this horrible secret and they continued to come in and out of our house - we went to dinner together, church, vacationed, etc. Them dday 2 came where my husband found out. Big blow up - pastors found out and decided to read our names before the church congregation. Lots of people involved and lots of control - so much emotion, made to go no contact (albeit we did have contact for a few months) - had one last meeting about four months later to bury a box for a baby I lost - and one quick phone conversation after that and short of passing him in a car and seeing him one time in a public place, no contact now for over 3 1/2 years. Bottom line is he has young children, his wife wanted to try to reconcile and so he did. My husband wanted to try to reconcile and so we are. Rarely to spouses act how you think they are going to act on dday.

 

It was a clusterf$$k I never, ever want to be a part of again.

 

One comment, I feel that people should mind their own business. You Pastor, announcing your name was TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE, and the AH should have been fired. I'm a sting believer in letting folks solve their own problems and reach out for help when they need it. Feel sorry for you, you've been through a lot.

[OldRover]

Y<<<<<<<Maybe after we both get setup as Established members, we can PM. If, at that time, we could be of any help to each other.>>>>>>>

 

Take Care FM

 

What's an "established member"? There's a few times I'd like to PM a few folks that have similar situation to me, without going totally public.....

[happy stillmore]

I'm not sure what the number is but when you reach a certain number of posts, you are an established member and can then private message (PM) other members. The number may be 100 posts.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

 

One comment, I feel that people should mind their own business. You Pastor, announcing your name was TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE, and the AH should have been fired. I'm a sting believer in letting folks solve their own problems and reach out for help when they need it. Feel sorry for you, you've been through a lot.

 

It is something I wouldn't have wished on my worst enemy I can tell you that.

 

It was something that should have been handled between the families and they made a scandal of if. Eventually the pastors were gone. People left - oddly enough not because of the affair but how it was handled by the pastors - giving dropped - the associate pastor was forced to leave because there wasn't money to pay him anymore (although the reason he gave was that god was calling him elsewhere - yeah right) and the next year the senior pastor was transferred by the district because of multiple letters written to the bishop - yes they lost their jobs.

 

I can tell you it has made recovery that much harder.

Edited December 23, 2013 by lilmisscantbewrong

[ZMM]

I'm not sure what the number is but when you reach a certain number of posts, you are an established member and can then private message (PM) other members. The number may be 100 posts.

 

I think there is a one month requirement and certain number of posts. I think it is less than 100, because I have seen established members with less than 100 posts.

[Popsicle]

I have over 100 posts, but been here less than one month, and I can't send PM's. In 7 days it'll be one month, I'll post if I can PM then, if this thread is still alive.

[flowingmane]

I don't know your MM, but my guess is he meant it and truly feels bad for taking so long or as he put it not doing what he should be doing. I'm not sure of your time frame and how many other things he has going on in his life, but that can sometimes be a consideration. I have never said that to my OW, but I don't think she is quite as open with me. She does it more in the way of comments she has made and by her actions. If we were PMing, I would tell you a lot more, but I don't want to put too much detail in this public forum.

 

Also, you don't know how many times I started to tell her how hard it is for me. I never have. I also don't tell her some of the issues I have to deal with regarding this whole ordeal. I guess I don't want to burden her with my end and figure she has enough to deal with of her own. I wouldn't be surprised if your MM regretted saying that.

 

PMing would be good. Yes, he has a lot going on outside of us and the marriage, which I do know about. I had to make some life changing decisions this summer due to a situation he was facing, including asking myself if I loved him enough to truly give my life to him even without that D or a set of vows (I did and do), and now here we are.

 

I'd prefer to know what he is facing. I think intimacy suffers when half of a couple is living in a gray shrouded future, and a somewhat foggy present. Doubts creep in simply because there's no information. I am left to infer from impressions, and of course I waver back and forth in believing if it's really going to happen or not as a result. Which then resulted in my hurtful comments mixed in with the sharing of my feelings (still regretting mightily).

 

Then guilt sets in for giving the impression that I don't have faith in him... you see the underlying pressures on the relationship that trickle down from that Unknown.

 

I know she is frustrated that I am taking so long, she had pretty much said that recently. But, quite frankly, I was confused by her mixed messages and just started figuring out what she really was saying.

 

But, I would be there for her, if she actually did open up like that. I think she may also be hesitant to put any pressure on me, at least directly. Indirectly, she has put a whole lot of pressure on me though, But, that did stir me into action to figure out what was going on. I don't know, maybe had she been more open and told me what she really wanted, that may have worked as well. But, instead I was kind of confused and left trying to figure things out.

 

It took a crisis for me to open up this summer. Externally driven circumstances but in order to make decisions, I had to know where he stood with regard to a commitment to me and our life together. It was the biggest challenge I've ever faced in a relationship. Ever.

 

It's a strange situation. Unlike an R with two singles, where the M game is understood to be part of the equation ("the talk"), an A has a very different dynamic. There is sacrifice involved if "the talk" comes up, and I think it's hard for many people to go there.

 

You are definitely not full of crap. But, keep in mind, there may be some things going on that are extremely hard for him to deal with and he may not tell you those details because he doesn't want to burden you with it and he may feel that it would actually hinder your relationship with him in the future. I don't know, but it is possible.

 

Thanks for talking to me. You are one of several OWs on this forum that have been extremely helpful to me in working out my problems. As a MM in an A, sometimes you feel like a pariah on this forum.

 

Understand and thank you.

 

You're not a pariah. Answers are often what an OW is looking for, how love and commitment could be overcome by logic or fear. I gave up everything I had 2x for a man - once to get away from one, and now once to be with one. It can be hard to understand emotionally (not logically) how an MM can't start a new life if he came this far already and is so emotionally invested in the R. The cliche is that men are more logic driven - maybe it's a Mars / Venus thing? Or maybe the simple reality that once bitten, twice shy?

[ZMM]

PMing would be good.

 

Something weird happened yesterday. Too bad I don't feel I can share on this open forum. I sure could use another opinion