Question from MM to OW

[Rhema]

Hi. If you chose to D, it should be based upon your own unhappiness/discontent in the marriage. It seems that you want your OW to be a security blanket (some ppl do that, not saying its right). But please realize that even if your OW told you that she will be with you. There's no way of knowing if things in that relationship will work out. The relationship could end up totally different then it is now. Thats why you got to make the decison based upon your feelings for your marraige alone. If you're worried about finances, you may want to get some legal advice. But if you do want out, by all means, plan and get out.

 

You also gotta ask yourself, if you're really in love, or just using the OW as a "means to escape", "soften the blow". I'm just throwing ideas out there. You may really be in love. But ppl do that also.

 

As for your question for OW, no she does not want to be the reason to break up your marriage. She has already minimized contact with you because of guilt. And yes she brings up things that points out your unhappiness, because she wants you to see it on your own, and get the D.

[findingnemo]

Not too far, we see them occasionally. They try to help with certain issues, but they have no luck either. If they push too hard, she gets upset because she looks at it as siding with me or something like that. But, I don't bring it up to them, they know on their own. They see it. But she does not like it and pulls away from them.

 

It's been a few weeks now since I had to commit a dear cousin of mine to a mental institution. It was the hardest thing I've had to do in a long time. She suffers from severe depression which strikes suddenly at least once a year. She wouldn't take medication, she refused to go see her doctor and every day she was getting worse. The thing is she is a kind, considerate 33 year old who has been sitting in her house for the last year and a half not working, not doing a thing. I took matters in my own hands after her family had failed to cope. All of us would broach the subject and cower because we thought we would trigger some crazy reaction.

 

At the hospital I cried so much that the doctors took me aside for counseling. I felt like I was labeling her as "mad" by having her admitted. I know this wasn't the case but that's how it felt to me. There are lot of people committed to this hospital who, in my view, are so badly off they are not functional. My cousin wasn't like that. Talk to a professional about what you can do. It seems to me you are not the type of person to just walk away. My cousin's doctor gave me invaluable advice. He told me to always tell her the truth no matter how hard it may be for her to hear. If she starts getting depressed again, I should get her treatment. I told her the truth. I was angry about what she was and wasn't doing with her life. And she lost it. So there we were in a mental hospital, late at night, surrounded by people with serious issues, and it was I that broke down crying.

 

She is home with me now after spending a couple of weeks there. She takes her meds, has started working in my office and is really 100% okay...for now. But sometimes when I look at her I remember the night I took her in and she fought like crazy. Big strong men had to restrain her and she was given a sedative. I think being responsible for someone with mental issues, someone you love, is very difficult. You can't just walk away. But at the same time, you have to find some sort of solution.

 

My situation is not like yours. Having a spouse who threatens suicide, etc is much worse I imagine. But you have to do something about the mental issues. If your W is on meds and still having episodes, you have to get new meds. In the meantime, start telling her the unvarnished truth. Admit to what you have done and tell her your reasons. This is your home, your M, your life. Take control by being open and forcing her to seek proper medical attention. There is no formula for what a marriage should be. There really isn't. Many people stay M even when their R is non-sexual. They agree on how things will be. Communication is key. Your family, her family and the two of you must come to an understanding. This is important because there just isn't a miracle cure for certain mental issues. It is something one has to live with for the rest of one's life.

[Popsicle]

I think some MM wish that the OW wants to be the reason that his marriage breaks up.

[ZMM]

Not in my case, I definitely respect her more for not wanting to be the reason. The reason I asked the initial question was I was getting mixed signals and didn't trust my gut.

 

That's how I saw it. But, I am sure the real reason was because I needed an ego boost or a security blanket.

[findingnemo]

Ego boost? Unlikely. Security blanket...or net, as I see it, quite likely. You were calculating the odds. That's normal by the way. But it isn't the right way to deal with your issues as other posters have clearly pointed out.

[Snipercatt]

Not in my case, I definitely respect her more for not wanting to be the reason. The reason I asked the initial question was I was getting mixed signals and didn't trust my gut.

 

 

 

But, in reality, we (OW) are/were in R with you and we may not even recognize our own biases until years later, if at all.

 

In other words, we may tell you that we don't want to be the reason for the demise of your marriage (in reality we aren't, you are, but that's another topic). That may be true, or we may want you to love us enough to leave your marriage. We don't want to be the reason, but we may want your love for us to be the reason.

 

Even when we truly don't want to be the reason, and don't want our love to be the reason, we may want you to leave your marriage and be with us, so it may color any conversations we have with you regarding your marriage, or BW.

 

I think you are spot on when you say you were getting mixed messages. Any OW that disapproves of your BW should keep those thoughts to herself, IMO. I think we lose our credibility when we hint about any mistreatment, etc. you might be receiving from your BW. That is between you and BW, truly. Comments from OW, or past EMA partners, may have these biases until death and shouldn't, necessarily, be taken at face value.

[findingnemo]

I agree with Sniper. There are a select few women who will have an A, go through the rollercoaster of emotions involved and yet not want the MM to leave his M. In my culture those are called Mistresses. These are women who are very happy seeing MMs and wouldn't want to change that. Most OWs actually do love their MMs and truly hope that he will eventually become hers. I was one of those. Many who post here are like that too. They may not say it directly but at certain times things they say will give you the impression they want to be the only one the MM loves and is with. Thus the mixed signals...

[ZMM]

Everything you say, Sniper & FindingNemo, makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

[Popsicle]

One other thing. I've been cheated on before. At least two times that I know of. It was at two different times with two different women, both times we were in committed live-in LTRs. They didn't tell me, I just found out.

 

Both times, I forgave them and we moved on. I didn't have the same reaction as most of the posters on LS. Yeah it hurt. But, I got over it.

 

It wasn't good, but it wasn't the worst thing that ever happened to me. Not even close.

 

I do think cheating is wrong and I never cheated on either of those woman. I had no desire to. Yes, I cheated on my wife. Yes, it was wrong. And no, it won't happen again.

 

What is it that made you not leave these women when this happened? Whatever it is is the same thing that makes you stay and put up with your M now. Perhaps you feel more strongly about losing someone than keeping them when they are not good (for you).

 

Why don't you tell us what's good about your wife? Because there is something that is keeping you there.

[ZMM]

What is it that made you not leave these women when this happened? Whatever it is is the same thing that makes you stay and put up with your M now. Perhaps you feel more strongly about losing someone than keeping them when they are not good (for you).

 

Why don't you tell us what's good about your wife? Because there is something that is keeping you there.

 

I was much younger then. So, I'm not sure if it is the same reason now as then. But, it could be. I did think about this. But, I didn't really put it on losing someone. But who knows, maybe you are right. I will have to think about it. (I know I need to do something right now and quit thinking about things - JK)

 

There are good things about her for sure. She just has some problems, that get in the way of those good things. Actually, I can see good in just about everyone, if I look hard enough. That itself, probably isn't good.

[Popsicle]

How long was your affair from the time it started until it ended? (including the friendship and EA)

[ZMM]

How long was your affair from the time it started until it ended? (including the friendship and EA)

 

I guess it was maybe 3 years or so, counting the close friendship time. And I still consider her a close friend - even though we don't actually see each other. So, if you add that on, over 3.5 years.

 

I'm thinking it ended about 8 months ago. We almost had a rekindling a few months ago, because we were in same proximity. But, we were good and avoided temptation.

 

I think I see what you are getting at here.

 

And thinking about it, I have a lot of friends (both male & female, but mainly male), many of which go way back. I tend to maintain those relationships, probably more than most people.

 

Now, if I want to get all psychoanalytical, when I was growing up, we moved every year. So, I had to give up my friendships and establish new ones. I always hated that. This may or may not be relevant, but it came to mind as I was thinking about all this.

Edited December 19, 2013 by ZMM

[Got it]

But, in reality, we (OW) are/were in R with you and we may not even recognize our own biases until years later, if at all.

 

In other words, we may tell you that we don't want to be the reason for the demise of your marriage (in reality we aren't, you are, but that's another topic). That may be true, or we may want you to love us enough to leave your marriage. We don't want to be the reason, but we may want your love for us to be the reason.

 

Even when we truly don't want to be the reason, and don't want our love to be the reason, we may want you to leave your marriage and be with us, so it may color any conversations we have with you regarding your marriage, or BW.

 

I think you are spot on when you say you were getting mixed messages. Any OW that disapproves of your BW should keep those thoughts to herself, IMO. I think we lose our credibility when we hint about any mistreatment, etc. you might be receiving from your BW. That is between you and BW, truly. Comments from OW, or past EMA partners, may have these biases until death and shouldn't, necessarily, be taken at face value.

 

I disagree. I wanted him to divorce because he felt it was the best thing for his life. Doing it for me, or couching it around "our love" is really the same thing. Just the thought of him leaving for either of those two reason causes me anxiety because then it puts the full onus on me.

 

Having been a MOW and divorcing I know that I divorced solely because divorcing was the best thing for me. Regardless of my relationship with my MM, when we were broken up, etc. I have NEVER regretted divorcing and am 100% certain it was the right decision.

 

That is what I wanted for him and for others. You need to know that definitively this is the best thing for you because of the relationship with your spouse and the marriage tied to it. That regardless of all other parties being with them is worse than being alone. (In fact I realized that I was happier and less lonely sitting alone in hotel rooms (traveling for work) than when I was home with him.

[Popsicle]

I guess it was maybe 3 years or so, counting the close friendship time. And I still consider her a close friend - even though we don't actually see each other. So, if you add that on, over 3.5 years.

 

I'm thinking it ended about 8 months ago. We almost had a rekindling a few months ago, because we were in same proximity. But, we were good and avoided temptation.

 

I think I see what you are getting at here.

 

And thinking about it, I have a lot of friends (both male & female, but mainly male), many of which go way back. I tend to maintain those relationships, probably more than most people.

 

Now, if I want to get all psychoanalytical, when I was growing up, we moved every year. So, I had to give up my friendships and establish new ones. I always hated that. This may or may not be relevant, but it came to mind as I was thinking about all this.

 

I was just wondering how long it took you to develop this attachment. And to be quite frank, the way you've been carrying on in this thread I figured your break up was new (as in within the last few weeks).

[ZMM]

the way you've been carrying on in this thread I figured your break up was new (as in within the last few weeks).

 

I don't know what you mean by carrying on and I guess it doesn't matter. But, there is no place in here, at least that I remember where I said I was all distraught and pining away for OW or that I was freaking out over NC or anything else.

 

I do have strong feelings for her still and feel like I love her. That is what I said. I also had a question as to the meaning behind her words and actions. Several opinions were offered right away. When I didn't respond immediately, comments were made implying I couldn't take the heat or something to that effect. So, I said, what the hell. I'm game.

 

And I took all the attacks from the BSs and a few OWs as to what I should and shouldn't do and what I did and shouldn't have done. I went on to answer most posts honestly and respectfully. Most of the discussion was centered around my M. It did reaffirm to me, what I deep down already knew, that my real issue is my M.

 

Basically, I need to

a) try and fix it and see if it can be fixed if not get a D or live with it

b) get a D from get go

or c) just accept it for what it is and live with it.

 

I know what I am going to do. I guess LS helped me work through it in my head.

 

LS is a tough audience. You have to be a little thick-skinned, but if you can sift through all the attacks, it actually can help.

 

Thanks.

[awkward]

LS is a tough audience. You have to be a little thick-skinned, but if you can sift through all the attacks, it actually can help.

 

Thanks.

 

LS might be a tough audience but compare that to the people in your life. Your wife, children, parents, in-laws, friends, etc. How will that audience be? I hope you are capable of making a decision. Choice C is what you've been doing for most of your marriage and clearly that isn't working.

[Popsicle]

I don't know what you mean by carrying on and I guess it doesn't matter. But, there is no place in here, at least that I remember where I said I was all distraught and pining away for OW or that I was freaking out over NC or anything else.

 

I do have strong feelings for her still and feel like I love her. That is what I said. I also had a question as to the meaning behind her words and actions. Several opinions were offered right away. When I didn't respond immediately, comments were made implying I couldn't take the heat or something to that effect. So, I said, what the hell. I'm game.

 

And I took all the attacks from the BSs and a few OWs as to what I should and shouldn't do and what I did and shouldn't have done. I went on to answer most posts honestly and respectfully. Most of the discussion was centered around my M. It did reaffirm to me, what I deep down already knew, that my real issue is my M.

 

Basically, I need to

a) try and fix it and see if it can be fixed if not get a D or live with it

b) get a D from get go

or c) just accept it for what it is and live with it.

 

I know what I am going to do. I guess LS helped me work through it in my head.

 

LS is a tough audience. You have to be a little thick-skinned, but if you can sift through all the attacks, it actually can help.

 

Thanks.

 

What I meant by carrying on is, that one would think after 8 months, you'd be over the OW.

[ZMM]

LS might be a tough audience but compare that to the people in your life. Your wife, children, parents, in-laws, friends, etc. How will that audience be?

Tougher

 

I hope you are capable of making a decision. Choice C is what you've been doing for most of your marriage and clearly that isn't working.

I hope so too. I think I will be.

 

 

Choice C is what you've been doing for most of your marriage and clearly that isn't working.

And, yes your are correct

[ZMM]

What I meant by carrying on is, that one would think after 8 months, you'd be over the OW.

 

Yes, I agree, one would definitely think that.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

What I meant by carrying on is, that one would think after 8 months, you'd be over the OW.

 

 

 

It took a lot longer than 8 months to get over my XMOM. May have been my own fault, but it was a long time....

[Aspasia33]

Hi ZMM,

 

I will attempt to answer your original question as an OW, however I am a MOW who doesn't intend to leave her husband, so it may be coming from a different perspective.

 

I do not see any problem with you finding out where you OW is at in regards to future relationship with you , and in regards to leaving your marriage. The majority of OW here say that they want their MM to make that decision separate from the affair.

 

Whilst I understand that, and do agree with the reasoning behind it, I believe that a large factor for the many men who DO leave their marriage is that the affair shows them what they are missing in their life, and in fact that they can have a different sort of life. They may not have realized this until they had the affair.

 

So the affair is a catalyst for change. So if you hadn't fallen in love with the OW, there perhaps would not have been the need for a radical change in your life. This change can be expressed in many different ways, perhaps by opening up the communication with your wife, and seeing if you can both come to a new sort of relationship with each other, if that doesn't work (and i have read your problems you have in the marriage) or by deciding that you want to look at ending the marriage.

 

Whatever happens ZMM, change and the need for individual personal growth has already started within you, and there is no going back.

 

I understand where your OW is coming from when she says she doesn't want you to leave your marriage for her, that is a huge responsibility to put on someone, I can imagine she would love to be able to explore a relationship with you openly though and see where it goes..

 

I was actually worried that my MM may leave his wife for me at one stage (we have been together 5 years) as I wasn't sure if we would actually

get on in RL?

 

I'm rambling a bit here, I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide ZMM, these decisions are not to be made lightly, and it is not as easy as people think dismantling a marriage, especially when the BS is dependent on you.

[Popsicle]

It took a lot longer than 8 months to get over my XMOM. May have been my own fault, but it was a long time....

 

Were you married during that time? Just curious.

[Popsicle]

Whilst I understand that, and do agree with the reasoning behind it, I believe that a large factor for the many men who DO leave their marriage is that the affair shows them what they are missing in their life, and in fact that they can have a different sort of life. They may not have realized this until they had the affair.

 

So the affair is a catalyst for change. So if you hadn't fallen in love with the OW, there perhaps would not have been the need for a radical change in your life. This change can be expressed in many different ways, perhaps by opening up the communication with your wife, and seeing if you can both come to a new sort of relationship with each other, if that doesn't work (and i have read your problems you have in the marriage) or by deciding that you want to look at ending the marriage.

 

Whatever happens ZMM, change and the need for individual personal growth has already started within you, and there is no going back.

 

I understand where your OW is coming from when she says she doesn't want you to leave your marriage for her, that is a huge responsibility to put on someone, I can imagine she would love to be able to explore a relationship with you openly though and see where it goes..

 

Good post. If think affairs do open the eyes of the married people involved to the things that have been hidden in the dark/ignored for so long. After your eyes have been opened, then it becomes a question of, can I close my eyes again in order to maintain the comfortable status quo? Or can I make things improve in my M? Or should I just leave if I can't achieve either of those things?

[Aspasia33]

That's what I was trying to say Popsicle, but you expressed it better:)

 

Good post. If think affairs do open the eyes of the married people involved to the things that have been hidden in the dark/ignored for so long. After your eyes have been opened, then it becomes a question of, can I close my eyes again in order to maintain the comfortable status quo? Or can I make things improve in my M? Or should I just leave if I can't achieve either of those things?

[ZMM]

Hi ZMM,

 

I will attempt to answer your original question as an OW, however I am a MOW who doesn't intend to leave her husband, so it may be coming from a different perspective.

 

I do not see any problem with you finding out where you OW is at in regards to future relationship with you , and in regards to leaving your marriage. The majority of OW here say that they want their MM to make that decision separate from the affair.

 

Whilst I understand that, and do agree with the reasoning behind it, I believe that a large factor for the many men who DO leave their marriage is that the affair shows them what they are missing in their life, and in fact that they can have a different sort of life. They may not have realized this until they had the affair.

 

So the affair is a catalyst for change. So if you hadn't fallen in love with the OW, there perhaps would not have been the need for a radical change in your life. This change can be expressed in many different ways, perhaps by opening up the communication with your wife, and seeing if you can both come to a new sort of relationship with each other, if that doesn't work (and i have read your problems you have in the marriage) or by deciding that you want to look at ending the marriage.

 

Whatever happens ZMM, change and the need for individual personal growth has already started within you, and there is no going back.

 

I understand where your OW is coming from when she says she doesn't want you to leave your marriage for her, that is a huge responsibility to put on someone, I can imagine she would love to be able to explore a relationship with you openly though and see where it goes..

 

I was actually worried that my MM may leave his wife for me at one stage (we have been together 5 years) as I wasn't sure if we would actually

get on in RL?

 

I'm rambling a bit here, I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide ZMM, these decisions are not to be made lightly, and it is not as easy as people think dismantling a marriage, especially when the BS is dependent on you.

 

Thanks for the post, very insightful.

 

Regarding asking the OW, you are about the only one that took that stance. My best reading of her was that she really didn't want me to ask that, but she was open to the possibility of us being together. I don't know for sure, but that was what I thought. I also had read a lot of posts on here before I posted, so I was pretty sure what was going to be said by forum members. I also was hesitant to ask, because in my mind that would somewhat force me down a certain path and make an implication to her that she should wait for me. Also, I definitely didn't want to make her feel responsible for breaking up a marriage. I did speak to one friend about this and like you they thought there was nothing wrong me asking as I was making a big decision and she was a factor in that decision. Anyway, I am not go to ask her.

 

As to your other comments regarding a change occcured in me due to the A, an awakening so to speak, and once that process started it put me on a new path in life with several options. I agree

 

Also, as you said, dismantling a marriage that is been in existence for multiple decades is not as simple and quick as some posters imply, especially with a dependent spouse.

 

Thanks so much for the reply, it was very helpful.