Question from MM to OW

[Snowflower]

I'm so sorry that this happened to you Snowflower. You have no idea how common this is in reality.

 

 

The sense that something is wrong, the onset of depression, the exacerbation of the situation due to the depression, and the inexcusable continuation of the affair under such a terrible burden for the BS with no understanding or comprehension (until dday) of it's origin is all too familiar ...............

 

 

You have my profound sympathy and understanding.

 

Thank you! You get it! Fortunately, my circumstances were relatively short lived.

 

Actually, ZMM sounds a lot like my H during his A.

 

I just wonder how many of his wife's so-called issues stem from that vague sense that something is terribly wrong.

[ZMM]

Okay, thank you for answering. I know you didn't want to get too specific for privacy reasons.

 

I just find it interesting that so many cheating men will say their spouses don't leave the house, don't take care of themselves, have medical issues, etc. Did all you cheating men marry the same woman?

 

Please just understand that these reasons are a very common justification for cheating if one is inclined to do so.

 

I became pretty depressed during my H's affair before I knew what was going on. He had pulled away and something was just wrong! I admit to getting pretty depressed. He used my depression (that he was certainly contributing to) as further justification to continue the A. I was obviously depressed and negative because something was very wrong in my life. I just didn't understand what it was. So, my H contributed to the situation and then complained about it.

 

Could this possibly be what you are doing?

 

Actually, in my case, this was going on way before the A occurred and issues were there before I even knew her. I just didn't know about it until after we were married and they became apparent and then I was told about all the problems from earlier in life.

 

I would have to say that my A went from a friendship to an EA, which made up the majority of the A, Then, to a PA, but only a couple of times when we happened to be in the same location. For me, it was very difficult to not act on my feelings. For one, it had been so long since I had sexual intimacy. When I was younger, I enjoyed that part of a relationship very much, the closeness. I had forgotten just how much. I am not really into PORN and stuff like that, so I pretty much have lived like a monk.

 

I don't know if I am willing to live out the rest of my life, never having that intimacy again and not being happy. I'm sure I could, just don't know if I want to do that. Either way, my W needs to address her issues. I'm sure there are things about me that aren't that great, but I feel her problems are rather serious. I wish I could say more, but since this goes out over the internet, it is too risky. Sorry.

 

Thanks for your reply.

[Ruffian1]

He had pulled away and something was just wrong! I admit to getting pretty depressed. He used my depression (that he was certainly contributing to) as further justification to continue the A. I was obviously depressed and negative because something was very wrong in my life. I just didn't understand what it was. So, my H contributed to the situation and then complained about it.

 

Yes it is common for this to happen when a spouse is having an A.

 

It is a form of emotional abuse.

[ZMM]

All I can say is the problems were there before the A, years before. Even on the honeymoon. I should have addressed things long ago. I did try, but not hard enough. And instead of getting out of it, I just let it slide. That's on me. I screwed up.

 

You may think I am like your H was during his A, I don't know. Maybe so. I don't know the details of your R. But, what I have posted here is true.

 

I know I have a lot of problems. Mainly issues with myself. I have had dozens of opportunities to walk out, call it quits. Why I didn't, is beyond me. How I could look at someone who is calling me every name in the book over nothing to do with me, and not just say the hell with it, I don't understand.

[experiencethedevine]

Yes it is common for this to happen when a spouse is having an A.

 

It is a form of emotional abuse.

 

 

 

Oh most certainly, and while they witness their wife/husband crumble in front of their eyes, they p**s all over them as they lay prone at their feet because they can only 'feel' their own selfish needs to prioritise.

 

 

I once knew a man who had married his childhood sweetheart. He came to me in their 25th year marriage with this story:

 

 

"I love my wife as a friend. We are like brother and sister. We do not have sex and have not for some time. She is getting fat and does nothing about it. I work out all the time and do a lot of canoing. We have separate bedrooms and no children.

 

 

I use porn and go on free dating sites to look for a woman who will be willing to allow me to experiment sexually. I had an affair for 3 years that fizzled out. Then I found a woman who I thought would be perfect. She was a sexual deviant (kinky) and I liked that a lot so we had an affair, but she was married and I wanted her to leave her husband but she wouldn't and so it ended. "

 

 

The story goes on, but the principle of this is that like ZMM, the man said he was unhappy but did nothing about it other than go behind his wife's back.

[ZMM]

The story goes on, but the principle of this is that like ZMM, the man said he was unhappy but did nothing about it other than go behind his wife's back.

 

Whether you believe it or not, all situations are not the same. There may be similarities, like there are with so many things. But, that doesn't mean everything else is identical.

 

The description of the man you described is so far from me. But, I guess what should I expect. After all, I did come to LS and put it out there.

 

I don't agree with you, but thanks for taking the time to reply.

[Eggplant]

Oh most certainly, and while they witness their wife/husband crumble in front of their eyes, they p**s all over them as they lay prone at their feet because they can only 'feel' their own selfish needs to prioritise.

 

 

I once knew a man who had married his childhood sweetheart. He came to me in their 25th year marriage with this story:

 

 

"I love my wife as a friend. We are like brother and sister. We do not have sex and have not for some time. She is getting fat and does nothing about it. I work out all the time and do a lot of canoing. We have separate bedrooms and no children.

 

 

I use porn and go on free dating sites to look for a woman who will be willing to allow me to experiment sexually. I had an affair for 3 years that fizzled out. Then I found a woman who I thought would be perfect. She was a sexual deviant (kinky) and I liked that a lot so we had an affair, but she was married and I wanted her to leave her husband but she wouldn't and so it ended. "

 

 

The story goes on, but the principle of this is that like ZMM, the man said he was unhappy but did nothing about it other than go behind his wife's back.

This OP seems remorseful; whereas the man in your story seems utterly stone-hearted.

[Snowflower]

Whether you believe it or not, all situations are not the same. There may be similarities, like there are with so many things. But, that doesn't mean everything else is identical.

 

 

But doesn't it make you think about things more because there are so many similarities?

 

And yes, you sound like my H did all those years ago. No, it's not exactly the same but similar enough that there can be some foregone conclusions.

 

I hope you will keep posting though--even if it seems tough sometimes.

[ZMM]

I hope you will keep posting though--even if it seems tough sometimes.

 

LOL - I have actually thought more than once about getting off LS, as I am not sure how helpful it really is. However, it's my only outlet at the moment and after holding stuff in for a great many years, it felt good to actually get things off my chest. I'm not talking just about the A but other things as well.

 

The bad part is you have to be somewhat vague or risk opening up your life to the internet.

 

I would guess that IC would be much more useful, since you wouldn't have to be concerned about confidentiality, which would allow you to open up much more.

 

For now, I guess I will keep posting.

 

Thanks.

[ZMM]

But doesn't it make you think about things more because there are so many similarities?

 

Believe me, I think about everything. When I started this thread, I had no intention of saying as much as I did. I just had a question, that I thought I knew the answer to, but wanted to make sure I was right. It turns out I was.

 

But, then it progressed into a lot more. I could have stopped posting once I got my answer, but I found myself compelled to continue responding.

 

You probably won't believe this, due to the fact I had an A. But, one of the biggest problems in my life, at least how I view it, when I go through it in my mind is I have made a lot of decisions based on the fact that I can't stand hurting someone else. Not just with my M, but in all areas. Some things, I shouldn't even worry about, because they are trivial. Had I not worried about that so much, it probably would have been better for everyone. It may have prevented or corrected some of the issues that are here today. That was a major screw up and is a major personality flaw that I have.

 

I realize to someone who has been hurt by an affair probably finds this totally inconsistent with the fact that I had an A. Because it was bound to hurt someone. I get it. I don't know exactly why I chose to not think about that before. I guess I was selfish or just didn't give a ___. It's no excuse, but that's all I can come up with.

[Ruffian1]

May we know how long you have been married to your BS and her age and yours and OW age?? Do you have kids?

[ZMM]

May we know how long you have been married to your BS and her age and yours and OW age?? Do you have kids?

 

A little over 20 years.

 

I don't want to give exact ages, 50s. W is a few years younger than me. OW is same age as W.

 

 

 

No kids.

Edited December 17, 2013 by ZMM

[Snipercatt]

ZMM, I have read your thread.

 

Your wife may have many problems, many of which may have their beginning before your marriage.

 

However, someone who tells you that you have ruined their life, is, for whatever reason, holding immense resentment against you. What is it that you said, or did, that caused this resentment?

[findingnemo]

All I can say is the problems were there before the A, years before. Even on the honeymoon. I should have addressed things long ago. I did try, but not hard enough. And instead of getting out of it, I just let it slide. That's on me. I screwed up.

 

You may think I am like your H was during his A, I don't know. Maybe so. I don't know the details of your R. But, what I have posted here is true.

 

I know I have a lot of problems. Mainly issues with myself. I have had dozens of opportunities to walk out, call it quits. Why I didn't, is beyond me. How I could look at someone who is calling me every name in the book over nothing to do with me, and not just say the hell with it, I don't understand.

 

I think you care about your W very much. I also think that you actually believe in being committed in a R. The disconnect comes from you not realizing that there was a mental issue that was serious. It happens. Don't beat yourself up over it. It isn't easy to live with. Where is your W's family?

[ZMM]

ZMM, I have read your thread.

 

Your wife may have many problems, many of which may have their beginning before your marriage.

 

However, someone who tells you that you have ruined their life, is, for whatever reason, holding immense resentment against you. What is it that you said, or did, that caused this resentment?

 

Actually, she has told me that when she gets upset, she goes for the jugular and is very good at it. She told me she has always been that way and when she was younger her mother told her she shouldn't do that. She said that is just the way she is and there is nothing she can do about it.

 

When I asked her, during the heat of the argument, she says, I gave up everything for you. I' ask what she gave up, but she will not go into details. She did not give up a career.

 

The only thing I could think of, is that we did not have kids. We tried, but were unsuccessful. And she had no interest in adopting. But, she has also said that she was glad she did not have kids because she did not have the right disposition to have them. But, that may just be justification in her mind. However, she probably was right.

 

So bottom line, I don't know.

 

But, why we didn't have kids is not my fault. We tried. But, things just didn't work out that way.

[ZMM]

I think you care about your W very much. I also think that you actually believe in being committed in a R. The disconnect comes from you not realizing that there was a mental issue that was serious. It happens. Don't beat yourself up over it. It isn't easy to live with. Where is your W's family?

 

Not too far, we see them occasionally. They try to help with certain issues, but they have no luck either. If they push too hard, she gets upset because she looks at it as siding with me or something like that. But, I don't bring it up to them, they know on their own. They see it. But she does not like it and pulls away from them.

[Snipercatt]

I gave up everything for you. I' ask what she gave up, but she will not go into details.

 

Regardless whether that comment is grounded in reality, she feels very strongly that her life would be different, and more to her liking, if she weren't with you. Perhaps she feels she should have remained single. Maybe divorce would be as freeing to her as to you. It is worth asking.

[Snowflower]

 

You probably won't believe this, due to the fact I had an A. But, one of the biggest problems in my life, at least how I view it, when I go through it in my mind is I have made a lot of decisions based on the fact that I can't stand hurting someone else. Not just with my M, but in all areas. Some things, I shouldn't even worry about, because they are trivial. Had I not worried about that so much, it probably would have been better for everyone. It may have prevented or corrected some of the issues that are here today. That was a major screw up and is a major personality flaw that I have.

 

Thanks for your honesty! I like talking with WH such as yourself because I learn things that my H perhaps has never been able to convey and hey, I like to try to help where I can.

 

I think a lot of people struggle with finding happiness and trying to do the right thing without hurting others. I don't think it is a personality flaw to want to avoid causing pain but perhaps some people have a harder time balancing it all out.

 

Personally, I think happiness is intrinsic. It comes from within (trite, but true) and some people have an easier time with this than others.

 

I realize to someone who has been hurt by an affair probably finds this totally inconsistent with the fact that I had an A. Because it was bound to hurt someone. I get it. I don't know exactly why I chose to not think about that before. I guess I was selfish or just didn't give a ___. It's no excuse, but that's all I can come up with.

 

No, I get it. And, I think eventually, no matter what the outcome is, you will feel a deep level of remorse? pain? loss of self-worth? for the pain you have caused your wife and dishonoring your own integrity in such a way. You come off (at least here) as a decent guy who has gotten lost along the way. It will be up to you to find these answers to why you have made the choices you have and reconcile yourself with it.

 

This may or may not be of interest to you but I know, on a very deep level, my H loathes himself for what he has done. He rarely speaks of it but it is there. Funnily enough, we were out last night for a nice time after work when he brought up his failures as a husband in an offhand way. We were having a pleasant, relaxed time and yet he still said something so I know it is there. My thoughts are that you would be somewhat similar, ZMM. You will go on with your life, with or without your marriage, with or without OW, but there will be a deep sense of loss in you somewhere.

 

Anyway, I hope you make the best choice for everyone concerned.

[bentleychic]

I will say that I had much hatred and resentment towards my (now ex)H for years. I regret not leaving sooner, but I do NOT regret that I did not get involved with someone else until I left him. Even though he was abusive and treated me like $hit on the bottom of his shoe most of the time, I did what was right for ME and the morals that I felt strongly about.

[ZMM]

This may or may not be of interest to you but I know, on a very deep level, my H loathes himself for what he has done. He rarely speaks of it but it is there. Funnily enough, we were out last night for a nice time after work when he brought up his failures as a husband in an offhand way. We were having a pleasant, relaxed time and yet he still said something so I know it is there. My thoughts are that you would be somewhat similar, ZMM. You will go on with your life, with or without your marriage, with or without OW, but there will be a deep sense of loss in you somewhere.

 

You are probably right.

 

Anyway, I hope you make the best choice for everyone concerned.

 

Me too.

[Popsicle]

ZMM, I think you just like talking about your feelings, but you should be doing that with your wife. I know the OW and this forum feels safer to talk to about your feelings, but you need to do it with your wife and if you both are bad at doing your part of that, then you need to learn how to be better at it. You have to confront this (with HER) and not continue to dodge it in various creative ways.

[Snipercatt]

Popsicle, I think your comment is very insightful on many levels!

[ZMM]

ZMM, I think you just like talking about your feelings, but you should be doing that with your wife. I know the OW and this forum feels safer to talk to about your feelings, but you need to do it with your wife and if you both are bad at doing your part of that, then you need to learn how to be better at it. You have to confront this (with HER) and not continue to dodge it in various creative ways.

 

You are right about one thing, I probably have been going on and on about this and everyone is sick of it including me.

 

Thanks to everyone who gave me some feedback, including Popsicle, I really do appreciate it.

 

It's time for me to deal with my issues on my own.

[ZMM]

Actually, change that - Thanks especially to Popsicle. Initially, she actually gave me a direct answer to my original question, before everything diverged.

[Popsicle]

Well, you are welcome to post here whenever you feel like it, that is what the forum is for, but the point I was trying to make is that you have to talk to your wife and attempt to fix things, or divorce and not just think about/discuss these things.