Author ZMM Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 Plan for the worst and expect it to be a degree better than hell. That's a realistic viewpoint. Yeah, I figured that. But not a lot of options and time on this Earth is limited.
BehindTheseHazelEyes Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 The only option is to move forward. Eventually, it works itself out and what will be, will be.
flowingmane Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 FYI: at the one month mark I was able to PM, but I had over 100 posts. Not sure how many you need. 50. It has been working.
Lady2163 Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 I haven't read all the responses, so please pardon me if something I say s obsolete. I read the first couple of pages and the last couple of pages. 1) if you tell your wife about the affair, it will not make your divorce go easier. Some people may advise you to begin some kind of moral redemption, you need to come clean with her. I've had relationships where I knew about the cheating and the relationship ended because the man wanted to be with her rather than me. Then, I had a relationship end, found out years later he cheated on me, but it didn't put me in the same funk knowing that was the cause because I was no longer emotionally involved with the man. It was better for me NOT to know while my emotions were still linked. I am the OW, I suppose. I tried to end it months ago. I prefer to categorize myself as a long distance FWB with a married man. He's never leaving his wife, I'm free to date, I don't love him, he doesn't love me. You say that your finances will take a hit - or words to that effect. How much are you willing to give up to be happy? I mean if you end up at the Y or renting a room in a single wide mobile home, then yeah, that would be more than I would want to give up...again. I did it once. My exhusband and I had a fantantastic 2000 square foot Victorian and after the divorce I went from that to renting an 8x12 room, with all my stuff in storage. 14 years later I am in a much nicer house, but I wouldn't ever want to start over like that again. However, I would easily sacrifice the equal to two years full salary and all my extra spending money each month for 2-5 years, all but $1000 of my savings to be in a happy, loving, committed relationship. I think you have sort of amended things since your initial post, but I thought it might be just a bit...smarmy to get some kind of guarantee from your OW. Not only do you not want to give up 1/2 of your financial worth, you certainly want to make sure you have someone waiting in the wings? That's pretty unfair. You're married, but how many times has your OW had to handle things alone because you weren't able to be with her? Tough love time, it's been said in different ways already, but this is a path you need to adult up and walk yourself. You need to go through the separation and divorce process and the rebuilding process without expecting anyone to be your rock or anchor. Your friends and OW can be a great support system, but if you make them carry the emotional burden of what you are going through, they may drift away. I had a friend years ago who always had the same complaints about his marriage. I listened to the exact same situations, 5 days a week for over 3 years. Finally, I said to him, "you have three choices" 1. Accept the way things are and try to still be happy in life (not encouraging cheating, just general happiness) 2. Go to counseling OR try to make/demand/insist changes at home 3. Divorce, separate, walk away. It took more than six months for that repeated message to sink in for him. He did divorce finally. 2
Author ZMM Posted January 1, 2014 Author Posted January 1, 2014 1) if you tell your wife about the affair, it will not make your divorce go easier. Some people may advise you to begin some kind of moral redemption, you need to come clean with her. I've had relationships where I knew about the cheating and the relationship ended because the man wanted to be with her rather than me. Then, I had a relationship end, found out years later he cheated on me, but it didn't put me in the same funk knowing that was the cause because I was no longer emotionally involved with the man. It was better for me NOT to know while my emotions were still linked. Very good point. It's been a while and if and when I get the D, I would be by myself for a good, long period of time, who knows - maybe forever. So, she probably wouldn't even tie the two together if I would happen to end up with OW. You say that your finances will take a hit - or words to that effect. How much are you willing to give up to be happy? I mean if you end up at the Y or renting a room in a single wide mobile home, then yeah, that would be more than I would want to give up...again. I did it once. My exhusband and I had a fantantastic 2000 square foot Victorian and after the divorce I went from that to renting an 8x12 room, with all my stuff in storage. 14 years later I am in a much nicer house, but I wouldn't ever want to start over like that again. However, I would easily sacrifice the equal to two years full salary and all my extra spending money each month for 2-5 years, all but $1000 of my savings to be in a happy, loving, committed relationship. Yeah I kind of decided this is not a big issue. I mean I don't really have 14 years to kill at this point in my life, but I will be okay and so would my W. It was just difficult to think about at first because I had work very hard to get where I am and you never know how things will go with the economy. I think you have sort of amended things since your initial post, but I thought it might be just a bit...smarmy to get some kind of guarantee from your OW. Not only do you not want to give up 1/2 of your financial worth, you certainly want to make sure you have someone waiting in the wings? That's pretty unfair. You're married, but how many times has your OW had to handle things alone because you weren't able to be with her? I kind of didn't think it was the right thing to do to begin with, if you read my initial post. That's why I never have asked her for any type of validation, because I felt it wasn't right until I was in a situation where I could follow through. That being said, it seems a lot on here do get much more validation than that. I have always just based it on my reading of her, which may or may not be correct. In the end, it may not matter anyway because I am very uncomfortable in my current situation. Tough love time, it's been said in different ways already, but this is a path you need to adult up and walk yourself. You need to go through the separation and divorce process and the rebuilding process without expecting anyone to be your rock or anchor. Your friends and OW can be a great support system, but if you make them carry the emotional burden of what you are going through, they may drift away. I had a friend years ago who always had the same complaints about his marriage. I listened to the exact same situations, 5 days a week for over 3 years. Finally, I said to him, "you have three choices" 1. Accept the way things are and try to still be happy in life (not encouraging cheating, just general happiness) 2. Go to counseling OR try to make/demand/insist changes at home 3. Divorce, separate, walk away. It took more than six months for that repeated message to sink in for him. He did divorce finally. Yes, I agree. Thanks for the good advice.
Lady2163 Posted January 1, 2014 Posted January 1, 2014 Well, if it makes you feel any better, it only took me 8 years to buy my house. I refinanced at a much better rate in 2012 and things have just come together like gangbusters. I run a business out of my home and business has been amazing. I am seeing a bit of some fallout from the economy, but my business is one that new customers come easy - just repeat customers are less hassle. Five years after the divorce I bought my dream car - which was something that never would have happened if I was still married. It took some time and some sacrifices, but I am better off financially than I was while married - and we also had no children. Neither of us were very savvy about money and by having to start for scratch at 30, I learned. I had just started to figure out areas we spent excessively and he sort of sabotaged my attempts to get us on track. If we had $400 spending money for the month and I passed on buying CDs, books or clothes I didn't need and tried to save that money, that would be the month he spend $375 on something for himself. Eventually I got very angry at sacrificing my luxury wants when he wasn't limiting himself at all. I don't know if there are two types of affairs, the ones that are just for fun or the ones that are entered into with the idea of being together forever. There are always marrieds who use whatever line they can to get the other person into the sack, but my guess is that from the start of the relationship, these people are saying they want to divorce. I think this is a conversation had early on in the affair. I don't know what you did with the OW. If you told her you wouldn't divorce because of financial reasons or whatever, she may not be in the mindset of "together forever" since you started things by eliminating that.
thecharade Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 ZMM, I saw that you had things to say on my thread. I know you are hurting and confused, which I relate to all too well. Please keep posting, regardless of how things turn out. Leave Ms or stay in Ms? I'm not sure I care so long as people feel authentic and true. And that is not always easy to do as the years tick by. I wish you only the best. 1
Author ZMM Posted January 2, 2014 Author Posted January 2, 2014 I don't know if there are two types of affairs, the ones that are just for fun or the ones that are entered into with the idea of being together forever. There are always marrieds who use whatever line they can to get the other person into the sack, but my guess is that from the start of the relationship, these people are saying they want to divorce. I think this is a conversation had early on in the affair. I don't know what you did with the OW. If you told her you wouldn't divorce because of financial reasons or whatever, she may not be in the mindset of "together forever" since you started things by eliminating that. Actually, our A was not planned out. We were really close friends for a long time (totally platonic) or so we thought. It progressed from there with no discussion about what type of A it was or things like that. There was no coaxing or lying by either one of us to make things happen, as far as I know.
Author ZMM Posted January 2, 2014 Author Posted January 2, 2014 ZMM, I saw that you had things to say on my thread. I know you are hurting and confused, which I relate to all too well. Please keep posting, regardless of how things turn out. Leave Ms or stay in Ms? I'm not sure I care so long as people feel authentic and true. And that is not always easy to do as the years tick by. I wish you only the best. Thanks Charade.
thecharade Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Can I ask, what is your plan at this point? Just wondering; not looking to judge.
Author ZMM Posted January 2, 2014 Author Posted January 2, 2014 Can I ask, what is your plan at this point? Just wondering; not looking to judge. Right at this point, my plan is to work to get out of M. There are some preliminary steps I have to take, which are somewhat confrontational to W. For others, they wouldn't be at all, but for her they are major. I have already taken the first step. The reason I made this decision is, I am pretty much miserable just being in my own home and I can't take living that way. I am normally someone who is pretty happy and finds something good about everything, so it feels pretty uncomfortable for me. 1
Author ZMM Posted January 2, 2014 Author Posted January 2, 2014 I think dreams are used by your mind to work out problems in your life. I had an interesting dream last night - I was in a foreign land and I was trying to find my way back to a ship. I couldn't ask for directions, because no one could understand me. I was trying to follow the sun, but it didn't seem to lead me in the right direction. Then, I woke up. Pretty easy to interpret. 1
Got it Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Right at this point, my plan is to work to get out of M. There are some preliminary steps I have to take, which are somewhat confrontational to W. For others, they wouldn't be at all, but for her they are major. I have already taken the first step. The reason I made this decision is, I am pretty much miserable just being in my own home and I can't take living that way. I am normally someone who is pretty happy and finds something good about everything, so it feels pretty uncomfortable for me. This was it for me. When I realized that when I traveled on business and was happier alone in a hotel room than being home that things were pretty much done. 2
blue963 Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 Yes very sad when home is not a good place to be. Home should be comforting, warm and a place for a soft landing at the end of the day. One that you are happy to come home to!
flowingmane Posted January 2, 2014 Posted January 2, 2014 FYI, my MM is home with me again. Very careful dance by both of us to not talk about the now screaming elephant on the table, right now focusing on reconnecting and getting past the hurt we each experienced. More important for the immediate future. It will come back around, just need to figure out a non confrontational, less emotional way of going there. And better timing. Reacting to being blindsiding by blindsiding in return was definitely not what I should have done. Just to close out my subthread in ZMMs thread. 1
Author ZMM Posted January 12, 2014 Author Posted January 12, 2014 Hey Zman, how are you? I'm doing alright. How about you? I get Established Member status tomorrow, it will be one month since I signed up. It turns out it takes 1 month and 50 posts. I have taken my first two steps towards moving in the right direction. I've had a couple of interesting exchanges with OW and as usual I am not sure how to interpret. I don't feel like posting them on LS, but I wish you were going to be an Established Member soon, so we could PM. I also wanted to hear what you meant by that other comment you made a while back.
headstillspinning Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 My question is: is it wrong for me to get her to validate her feelings for me, how she sees things going forward? Is this something that might possibly make her feel bad about herself, that is if she broke up a marriage? Would I be better off going slower and just do it on my own, even though if and when that happens is unknown (I mean which would be better for her)? I do realize, that if I ask for the validation, I need to be willing to do what is needed to make it happen. My MM fished repeatedly for me to share my feelings with him. I felt this was a very selfish thing to do. While I understand not wanting to make a life-altering decision without having a handle on OW feelings, it shouldn't be about OW. If your marraige is truly over, it needs to be over for that reason alone. My MM went as far as to say that he has been thinking about looking for a "place" together where he could stay with me 3 days a week, IF he decided to leave (that's a BIG if), and asked if this excited me. I found this to be completely unfair to me. In a way, it's giving false hope. There is nothing wrong with wanting to know how OW feels if your marriage is truly over because it's over, but my advice to you is this: DO NOT ask the question unless you are prepared to follow through with your actions. If you ask her to make herself vulnerable to you and express her feelings, be ready to protect her heart if she feels the same way. If not, you are completely wasting her time and she will resent telling you how she feels only to have her feelings still met with inaction on your side. I hope this helps.
whichwayisup Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 My MM went as far as to say that he has been thinking about looking for a "place" together where he could stay with me 3 days a week, IF he decided to leave (that's a BIG if), and asked if this excited me. I found this to be completely unfair to me. In a way, it's giving false hope. That's a pretty crappy thing to do to you. He has some big balls! And the 'if' ? Talk about selfish. Sounds like he was just making sure that if things did go south at home you'd be there for him. I do agree, if a marriage is ending in divorce, let it be because the person would rather be on their own than stay married, regardless if there's an OW or OM on the side.
headstillspinning Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 That's a pretty crappy thing to do to you. He has some big balls! And the 'if' ? Talk about selfish. Sounds like he was just making sure that if things did go south at home you'd be there for him. Oh yes, it wasn't a good feeling to know he was considering something as serious as having a shared living space on the off chance he decided to leave his marriage. They have it so easy, don't they? A woman at home who loves them and a back-up plan, just in case they decide to jump ship. My MM tells me I'm not the back-up plan, I'm THE PLAN but he doesn't "know how to get there". I am so sick of the lines. We are on a break right now while he tries to sort his life out.
Author ZMM Posted January 13, 2014 Author Posted January 13, 2014 My MM fished repeatedly for me to share my feelings with him. I felt this was a very selfish thing to do. While I understand not wanting to make a life-altering decision without having a handle on OW feelings, it shouldn't be about OW. If your marraige is truly over, it needs to be over for that reason alone. My MM went as far as to say that he has been thinking about looking for a "place" together where he could stay with me 3 days a week, IF he decided to leave (that's a BIG if), and asked if this excited me. I found this to be completely unfair to me. In a way, it's giving false hope. There is nothing wrong with wanting to know how OW feels if your marriage is truly over because it's over, but my advice to you is this: DO NOT ask the question unless you are prepared to follow through with your actions. If you ask her to make herself vulnerable to you and express her feelings, be ready to protect her heart if she feels the same way. If not, you are completely wasting her time and she will resent telling you how she feels only to have her feelings still met with inaction on your side. I hope this helps. I have never asked her, because I didn't think it was right. However, she just recently volunteered, that she wanted to make sure I was doing it for myself and without expectations that we would be together, because she doesn't know what she wants. Then she went on to say, I'm not saying we won't be together, we will have to see what happens. After that she said, I don't want to have anymore discussions about it 'us' until you do whatever you are going to do. I kind of felt like, I'm not sure either. We have to see what happens. We aren't currently in an A, but we do talk regularly.
Author ZMM Posted January 13, 2014 Author Posted January 13, 2014 They have it so easy, don't they? A woman at home who loves them and a back-up plan, just in case they decide to jump ship. I don't see it that way, at least not in my case. I don't think I have a backup plan. I think I would be fine on my own. And I think having to break off the marriage, especially if it is pretty long-term is not easy. But, I empathize with your POV.
headstillspinning Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 I don't see it that way, at least not in my case. I don't think I have a backup plan. I think I would be fine on my own. And I think having to break off the marriage, especially if it is pretty long-term is not easy. But, I empathize with your POV. I believe in the institution of marriage. I grew up with two loving parents in the same house. I am not proud of what I've done being the OW. That being said, I left a common-law relationship 6 years ago when my son was 4. We had cars, a mortgage, a child.....but I wasn't happy. I wasn't being the best version of myself. I knew I could be a better mother, sister, daughter, and friend if I could live a life true to myself. I am a quality of life person....after all we only have one life to live. I am by no means saying throw caution to wind and up and leave your wife on a whim, but can I ask what keeps you there? How will you feel in five years if you are still in the very same spot you are today. Time goes by.....the only guarantee in life is that it ends as morbid as that sounds. If your marriage vows no longer ring true for you, I would encourage you to make a hard decision and live a life true to yourself. This isn't the dress rehersal....this is the show.
whichwayisup Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 I have never asked her, because I didn't think it was right. However, she just recently volunteered, that she wanted to make sure I was doing it for myself and without expectations that we would be together, because she doesn't know what she wants. Then she went on to say, I'm not saying we won't be together, we will have to see what happens. After that she said, I don't want to have anymore discussions about it 'us' until you do whatever you are going to do. I kind of felt like, I'm not sure either. We have to see what happens. We aren't currently in an A, but we do talk regularly. Then with that, maybe you should go to counseling and figure out what you want and go from there. To live your life with one foot out the door is not healthy or good for you, your wife and family. As for your OW, good for her to stand up for herself and not give you the soft landing that many MM expect of their OW's once they do leave. I hope you find the courage and strength to finally make a decision, whether it be full on trying hard to reconnect with your wife and make your marriage good again, or if you divorce. 1
Author ZMM Posted January 13, 2014 Author Posted January 13, 2014 I believe in the institution of marriage. I grew up with two loving parents in the same house. I am not proud of what I've done being the OW. That being said, I left a common-law relationship 6 years ago when my son was 4. We had cars, a mortgage, a child.....but I wasn't happy. I wasn't being the best version of myself. I knew I could be a better mother, sister, daughter, and friend if I could live a life true to myself. I am a quality of life person....after all we only have one life to live. I am by no means saying throw caution to wind and up and leave your wife on a whim, but can I ask what keeps you there? How will you feel in five years if you are still in the very same spot you are today. Time goes by.....the only guarantee in life is that it ends as morbid as that sounds. If your marriage vows no longer ring true for you, I would encourage you to make a hard decision and live a life true to yourself. This isn't the dress rehersal....this is the show. I don't think you read through my thread, it was started about a month ago. It is quite long, so I don't blame you for not reading. But, I am working to get out of my marriage. I know when MM say that, OW calls BS. But, I am not talking about 6 months or a year. I have a list of things I need to do. I have gotten two started already and am working through them. I also am busy with work, so I can't just drop everything and do it immediately. I am looking at a 3 to 4 month timeline. And I agree this is not a dress rehearsal. And we only get one shot. And I am no spring chicken. So, there you go.
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