What to think of this guy....

[Ap22]

Just got a moment here but in my opinion, the 180 plan suggested seems like a terrible idea as a recovery plan. I thought that was strictly a "I'm moving on" plan while the affair continues.

 

BTW…you aren't unique. Some of the best recoveries I've seen have started just like yours. I handled things similarly. I've been very fortunate in life and if that was the worst thing that ever happens to me I'll die a lucky man. It sucked. I'm not some new age guy that will ever call it a "gift" or anything... but instead of wasting my/our lives in the negativity of it we turned it around into something positive. We also didn't bury ourselves in denial & despair. Instead we immersed ourselves in our marriage, our issues, marital recovery and helping other couples.

 

Well I've been unfortunate in life and this is another major blow. I'm taking this so well because I've had enough practice dealing with major hardships. Like you said, I just don't want to have the stress and negativity eat me alive. I'm not denying what she did and I'm not rug sweeping. It's very hard, but I'm choosing not to dwell on triggers, not to dwell on the images or mind movies. This is not the thing to bring me down.

 

I am trying to be optimistic and will fight for a full recovery of my marriage and family. I know things will never quite be the same because she violated the "pureness" of our marriage, but I know we can be happy if she really is who she wants to be.

 

As far as holidays with my family, I think it goes both ways. My parents are divorced and I don't think either of them are completely ready to have her over. I can't blame them, they feel betrayed too. They hurt for the kids too. Nits only been 3 weeks and it's just to soon. My wife feels very ashamed and she wants to get us better before she takes that step. I leave it up to her.

[confusedandhurt2002]

We'll just the part when I go to my parents for Xmas. Besides being a bit awkward, she is ashamed and not ready to face my family. My parents did invite her, even though they are very displeased with her, but she is not comfortable with that yet.

That first time of going to my parents after they knew everything was really hard for my husband, even though my parents told him they still loved him, no matter what happened in our marriage. They were disappointed and hurt, but have been amazingly supportive. From day one my parents wanted to pray forhim and knew he must have been hurting to do this. My husband is not a mean man. Arrogant? Yeah..he was at times but it was a front he put up after being emotionally abused for years by his psychopath mother. None of this is an excuse for his behavior and he refuses to use it but it does give me some understanding. If anything good has come from it it's that he is going to counseling and working on these issues caused by his childhood.

[janedoe67]

We'll just the part when I go to my parents for Xmas. Besides being a bit awkward, she is ashamed and not ready to face my family. My parents did invite her, even though they are very displeased with her, but she is not comfortable with that yet.

 

If this is the case, then I can understand what you are doing. I can relate to your W...I was so ashamed to see H's family after hurting their son the way I did. And if she is that afraid then forcing her could be bad too. She might want to write them a very heartfelt letter owning this 100% as well and give it to your parents or send it through you. I do hope, however, that she will not be alone on Christmas.

 

It does sound like you are doing well. But do NOT beat yourself up if a month or two or four from now you have a kind of delayed anger reaction. My H is a strong Christian who believes in grace and forgiveness, and that "training" carried him through a lot initially, but he did eventually have to deal with the very understandable anger (rage even) over what I did. Forgiveness does NOT mean forgetting or not getting angry.

[dichotomy]

Some people deal with loss and pain differently. If you are wired differently who am I to tell you how to feel or deal with your loss?

 

I am old enough to have either dealt personally or witnessed loved ones other dealing with all sorts of major life pain - form cancer - to loosing a child - to being in a war. In those cases I have see a range of how people cope and move on. Some end up with forms of PTSD, others are able to stay positive and not dwell.

 

My own wife for instance live life more "in the moment" than any person I have ever known, She feels loss, but after a few days its in the past, and thats not where she lives. Of course she does not think of the future either which has down falls.

 

My point is if you can deal with it as you say - and your honest with yourself about that coping... and your wife is doing all she can - consider yourself specially wired.

 

On the other side of the fence there are folks who remain tortured for years, struggling, dwelling on the past hurts and loss......unable to let go fully no matter what. I have been one to slowly let go of loss myself.

Edited December 14, 2013 by dichotomy

[confusedandhurt2002]

My H is a strong Christian who believes in grace and forgiveness, and that "training" carried him through a lot initially, but he did eventually have to deal with the very understandable anger (rage even) over what I did. Forgiveness does NOT mean forgetting or not getting angry.

 

As a Christian, this one has been hard for me to get through my skull too. Tell your husband I get it.

[peruano99]

Reading all these cases, I have decided I will never ever get married.

[Ap22]

Reading all these cases, I have decided I will never ever get married.

 

Don't blame you. I never will again. I remember the night I found out I kept thinking about the night I gave her the ring. I walked into the bedroom and she was lying down just staring at the ring on her finger. She looked so happy, so overjoyed with emotions.....if I only knew then.........

[Fluttershy]

Reading all these cases, I have decided I will never ever get married.

 

Marriage has nothing to do with it. What you need to say is this:

 

"never be in a committed relationship"

 

Because that is the only way to 100% proof yourself from being cheated on. And that is a very lonely way to live for a lot of people.

[peruano99]

Marriage has nothing to do with it. What you need to say is this:

 

"never be in a committed relationship"

 

Because that is the only way to 100% proof yourself from being cheated on. And that is a very lonely way to live for a lot of people.

 

No because if you don't get married, you don't have a chance to lose half your stuff if the woman cheats. If you are just in a relationship, you can simply leave.

Edited December 15, 2013 by peruano99

[Fluttershy]

No because if you don't get married, you don't have a chance to lose half your stuff if the woman cheats. If you are just in a relationship, you can simply leave.

 

So your more concerned about financial loss... I'm not sure if that would be a healthy approach to a marriage anyways.

 

I'm not sure where you live but more and more places view living together as marriage legally. Where I live the only thing that marriage changes is the couple hundred in lawyer fees to disolve it. Otherwise property and assets are viewed the same. And that is after only 6months of being shacked out.

 

Many a person who hasnt looked in to the legal side has been fleeced because they thought not being married was protecting them.

[peruano99]

So your more concerned about financial loss... I'm not sure if that would be a healthy approach to a marriage anyways.

 

I'm not sure where you live but more and more places view living together as marriage legally. Where I live the only thing that marriage changes is the couple hundred in lawyer fees to disolve it. Otherwise property and assets are viewed the same. And that is after only 6months of being shacked out.

 

Many a person who hasnt looked in to the legal side has been fleeced because they thought not being married was protecting them.

 

So basically a woman wins even if she cheats without getting married on getting money? Jesus is there a way to protect yourself from giving all your money in this case?

Edited December 15, 2013 by peruano99

[Fluttershy]

So basically a woman wins even if she cheats without getting married on getting money? Jesus is there a way to protect yourself from giving all your money in this case?

 

I know a woman who was common law with a man who after only two years took almost half of her property. All of her assets that were worth mentioning were inherited from her parents and she was forced to sell a lot of land to pay her long term boyfriend out. It could have been worse but it should not have been as bad as it was for her.

 

My point, she was a WOMAN. This isn't a sexist issue... You are the one being sexist thinking it is only the man who stanfs to lose financially. And while I appreciate money is important i personaly would be hesitent to ever enter into a relationship with anyone who was more concerned about his money than his heart.

[peruano99]

Isn't the person who made more than their spouse have give more money in a divorce? pardon my ignorance, but I don't really know. I'm sorry about sounding sexist, but it's just that I heard a lot of terrible divorce stories.

Edited December 15, 2013 by peruano99

[sidney2718]

No because if you don't get married, you don't have a chance to lose half your stuff if the woman cheats. If you are just in a relationship, you can simply leave.

 

Marriage is just a formality. If you live with someone and are not committed to the relationship, then you are just screwing around. And if you don't make that clear to the other person from the get-go, you are really beneath contempt.

[sidney2718]

I have to be honest and say that I am glad I did not find this site before marriage because it would of made me a lot more fearful.

 

I feel sick..I've lost my appetite and I've only just read about 4-5 threads so far. Is this because I was cheated on recently? Or does reading these cause most people to get that pit in their stomach regardless of if they were cheated on?

 

I think that marriage problems come in concentrated form here. Posts can be very difficult to read. One of the things I see wrong is that folks usually don't come here until their marriage problems become so strong (infidelity, walk-aways, and so on) that the situation is usually totally depressing.

 

We have to learn to deal with problems before they become deal-breakers. Very few folks in a problem-free marriage have affairs. Of course the "betrayed" spouse may feel that there were no problems, or certainly no major ones. But the cheating spouse is clearly missing something in the relationship, even if it is only a hug.

 

So yeah, this can be a depressing place. But I also think it can be a very very useful place. People find support here. And many times they feel better after posting here than they did before, even if the hurt is still there. So we plug along, knowing full well that we will not fix things for everybody, but if we make even a few regain happiness, whether by reconciliation or by divorce, we have helped the world be a better place.

[atreides]

Lots of stuff in this post. I think a lot of it has to do with whether or not you believe an affair is a reflection of someone's inalterable character. For some (serial cheaters and the like), I suppose it is. For others, I think an affair is an aberration from their character. I think the difficulty is in knowing which scenario is yours. In cases where it's a temporary aberration, you'd probably see true remorse and perhaps consider it a forgivable offense (given the right amount of effort to ensure that such a "mistake" wouldn't happen again). But for those that the affair was a reflection of their true character, nobody wants to forgive them.

 

First, I concur there are those that believe once a cheater, always...and that forgiveness cannot be made based on that.

 

Thus the "unalterable character" I firmly believe that character can change and should, nothing is static.. but that does not mean that the "mistake" is vanquished. I only use the word "mistake" reluctantly. IMO an A goes beyond the definition/scope of mistake.

For there to be change, the "mistake" must be a part of that person to live from to either be a changed better person or not. That was my point earlier. I also do agree, for many the scope as in knowing which scenario is relevant, but how possible when the root of the matter itself is a lie to then ask that lie which is which goes beyond reason and has to rely on other human qualities to endure.

 

It doesn't help when some people fake that it was an aberration.

 

Some don't think an affair is an aberration at all and that you either have the character that would NEVER allow you to do such a thing or you don't.

 

Well, one can have an "abnormal behavior" and yet it be part of the DNA but that DOES NOT make them have the "scarlet A" nor does it mean they should not be forgiven or defined by a static point in time. Also, I just cannot see how it could be argued any other way, to argue contrary simply states that "all will cheat" but may mean "all can cheat" but will vs can are two very different worlds. We know that one beautiful attribute of humanity is the spectrum of variables from which we live. There are those that will cheat and those that will not, we cannot assume an absolute in either direction and therefore can only argue that it is in the character somewhere that the "coping" or whatever "out" we choose for the situation crossed the line where others wont in the same situation.

So I can accept that it is part of our character whether it was under extreme circumstances or not that pushed us over the line and at the same time accept that it was out of the norm.. I have made many "mistakes" myself that others would not given the same situation and I can only dig deep to acknowledge it is a part of me form where the root came and work on improving to be a better person. In acknowledging and accepting it, i can work to change it thus perhaps making it a "temporary aberration."

 

I can certainly understand those that don't have the stomach for trying to figure it out and decide to cut their losses. Personally, I love a reconciliation story that involves true remorse and true forgiveness (thus revealing that I believe that for some people, it's an aberration and change can happen). But I also hate when a BS accepts less than true remorse (usually staying out of fear). Similarly, I hate when a WS reconciles out of fear.

 

Absolutely, there is nothing better when R is done for all the right reasons, feelings and rediscovery for which created the M. I also agree that all too often we find R done for the other things of life, the beloved use of "grey" or "too complex."

This brings me to my original point from my other post of why R for me is most likely not possible in most cases.

First, An A is far more than a mistake as i mentioned, perhaps i should use the word "aggravated mistake" as in some state law the word "aggravated" exponentially increases the severity.

In the example of an A, planning, intended deceit, manipulation, planned and systematic lies and to add so many times as a poor excuse of "never getting caught" only compounds the deceit exponentially just to start the list ... you know, you lived through one of the worst IMO.

So while I may forgive my spouse, forgiveness is only a part of R. I may forgive perhaps years later or earlier but I do not equate that with staying in my M which brings me to the line that spawned my first reply post

 

...this is not really your problem to fix, It's hers... ... In my view, something was broken within her...

 

Exactly! The A was her's alone and fixing it is hers alone no matter my emotional pain and circumstance. Semantics as I have stated many times is not enough which only leaves that which created my M in the first place. Digging deep and having experienced what i have with my wife that having worked on our M from her "mistake" left me with many questions i had to ask myself. Anything beyond what my wife did would destroy the reason my M existed in the first place and to R from there is not about "cutting losses" or trying to figure out the mess because the way i see it is you lose big either way and D or R take an enormous amount of work. It's scorched earth for miles in all directions. So for me, R does not come down to "is it worth it" , "can i forgive" M is not about worth in that context and yes i can forgive but having dug deep, I would lose what brought me to having an M in the first place.

Granted I will accept that this is how i feel now and we do not know what we would do heaven forbid anything like the sort of an A were to occur, but i have come close. These leads me to your last quote.

 

 

 

It can take years to figure out what you're dealing with. What a mess.

 

Indeed, you have lost the definition, the meaning... my point exactly.

 

If I may, I see M as something I give mind, body and soul, it should not be taken lightly and i know many do as many get M for different reasons. So an analogy for me is i see M as glass, beautiful, made with intricate fabric and so on... but once broken, it can never be the same.

 

Thanks for the great reply.

Edited December 15, 2013 by atreides

[BetrayedH]

@ Areides

 

Hmm. "Lost the meaning." I suppose that's undeniable. Makes you wonder why we try to salvage the M. I would guess for most of us, it's a form of damage control. So much is lost, we scramble to save something.

 

Otherwise, I have to say you got a real LOL out of me with the "aggravated mistake." I'm still chuckling. I may have to steal that one from you.

[atreides]

@ Areides

 

Hmm. "Lost the meaning." I suppose that's undeniable. Makes you wonder why we try to salvage the M. I would guess for most of us, it's a form of damage control. So much is lost, we scramble to save something.

 

Otherwise, I have to say you got a real LOL out of me with the "aggravated mistake." I'm still chuckling. I may have to steal that one from you.

 

no problem