Commitment Phobics.....Heartache and Chaos

[rosedl]

I have been in an on again/off again relationship with a commitment phobic man for three years.

 

I plead guilty for being naive about entering this relationship in the first place. First, he is separated but not divorced (which is now proceeding, lawyers and all). Given that the separation was going on eight years living apart, and sexless for twice that time, I did think it was an exceptional case. He told me it was purely financial but the reality is they share a land trust and farm and he held attachments beyond just the marital relationship. And, the fact that he told me he was 'hiding in his marriage' should have been a tip off. I didn't get the meaning then, but I think it translates to making himself permanently unavailable for commitment beyond cursory romance.

 

In any case, a few months in, he asked if I would remain in the relationship if he stayed married. I said, NO. I didn't want to be a life long mistress. I told him I would leave the relationship. He agreed that divorce was most likely necessary to move forward in his life (his separated wife viewed him very much as HERS even though there has been no physical relationship in a decade and a half, and no friendship for near a decade). Over the next eight months, he would give no time frame for the divorce and then state that he was talking about it with her. Finally, it was it would take as long as it would take. We would have periodic blow ups around this issue and finally last February, he broke up with me stating that the arrangement worked fine for him and admitted he was hoping to change my mind. It was a big betrayal. I stayed with him on the premise of him pursuing the divorce.

 

He broke up with me. We reconciled three months later and he had all these huge revelations and came to the table and told me he choose me and understood where my anger was coming from....profusely apologetic. He initiated the divorce. I was thrilled because I really love him and we have some big strengths and he was a dream partner. We had glitches and I am not perfect. I became reactive to his leaving (around business trips, around his continuing to go up the farm for haying and firewood). Some of it was unreasonable, some of it was reactive to unclear boundaries. Some of it was natural after the break up and needing some reassurance after our dynamic.

I have tried to own my own stuff immediately. But, if he I did anything that would break trust at all (like becoming emotional and reactive to the situation which he himself has admitted was difficult and unfair), he would just retract and talk about leaving the relationship. And, it didn't matter that I would immediately own my issues and try to make repairs. He would need space. The answer to him was always more space, and given our dynamic this became more triggering.

 

In past year, he has taken five months of space to break up with me or determine if he wants the relationship. We have been apart basically all of November, and now, he wants two to three months of more space while he finalizes the divorce (this I would not mind because he is stressed out beyond belief and working the equivalent of two full time jobs in his consulting business). The problem here is that it isn't just waiting for the divorce to be final, it is the fact that he doesn't know if he should be with me and thinks I may be the wrong person for him since he needs so much time alone and he wants so much space. On the other side of this dynamic, he adores me and treats me better then anyone ever. On this side, he pulls away and justifies it with me being the problem (instead of his long standing dynamic of push pull he has played out repeatedly in his life). It is very confusing because it is so extreme and both sides seem so sincere.

 

He tells me that he would do couple's therapy with me to help end this cycle and see the places where he is stuck (we went once, but she is on medical leave for a month and he won't have the time or focus to do this until the divorce negotiations would be final in a few months).

 

I don't know what to do. I do love him and he does love me. I do not question that fact. It doesn't mean we can meet each others' needs. Part of me thinks when the chaos of the divorce settles and he is less exhausted, we may find a way to work to accommodate our differences and move forward. Part of me thinks that it is incredibly stupid to believe that scenario given the fact that he has basically initiated month or more more separation periods three times in the past year and he speaks of needing lots and lots of space and he wants me to be alone with him together. (Basically, go out into the woods and not talk but just be quiet together).

 

I know he will definitely go to couple's therapy with me and he is open to seeing where he is wrong. The problem I have had is that he doesn't seem to remember his words when it comes to his actions and the things he admits one day, if I hold him to account the next, I am a nagging shrew.

 

Am I totally nuts to reengage with him again or should I just spare myself any further heart ache and walk away now?

 

I am torn and I am sick of thinking about it.

[BlessYourCottonSocks]

Commitment phobe? How? That term is so readily thrown around it makes dizzy. This guy is clearly just not interested in you and likes you as his doormat to wipe his dirty feet on. Hello? Wake up? Is someone in there? Let me bring you back down to earth..

 

This is more about a guy who doesn't make you his priority. And never will.

 

I wouldn't start labeling him with an issue, I would reread what you wrote and examine your own personal issue on why you keep taking this man back? When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE THEM.

 

There is no break, this is a break up. Best thing you can do for yourself is to let it go and move on. It's hard and will stay hard if you don't take the steps you need to take to remove him from your life. No part of this will be easy and no part of putting up with his crap will make it easier. BUT getting him out of your life will make things better...eventually.

 

This is all in your hands, just so you know.

[mtnbiker3000]

Yup... This is my feeling too ^^^ No such thing as a 'commitment phobe'. Someone is either interested in you or they are not. He is not...

[rosedl]

He is a commitment phobic man.

 

This is a long standing pattern he has enacted with women. He meets every single criteria of the definition. It isn't an isolated case with me, it is how he has conducted all of his romantic relationships and he goes after situations where he can maintain connection and control distance at the same time. He knows it is a dynamic that is self destructive, and admits to it.

 

Why is that important? Because it helps me get some context to understand making my decisions....I am not saying I should or will stay. The question was about moving forward with professional help and seeing if the dynamic could be broken. I am not going to stay around if it is not.

 

He is open to the therapy and moving into it in a couple of months.

 

I don't know if I will go through that process, that is what I am examining

 

Very dismissive reply.

[mtnbiker3000]

If a man truly wants to be with you than he will. You are making this much more complicated than it is. You are putting a spin on it that suits you. He will never give you what you want.

[rosedl]

It isn't that simple

 

When I say this, it is not a justification for staying with someone who won't commit to me....

 

When a person conducts ALL of their relationships in this manner, they damn well are a commitment phobe.

 

It isn't just me. This is what he has always done. Right down to allowing his wife to move another man onto his property and have an open relationship, so he could keep his independence and not have to come fully to the relationship. He outsourced it.

 

He did this with his last girlfriend as well.

 

He is so completely into me when he is into me....way more then any other guy. Dream partner. Helps me in my work, takes care of me, does home improvements to my house, spends all his time with me....Then, he gets claustrophobic and goes to the other extreme. He admits this pattern has driven out the women he loves and he has ended up being very lonely because of it.

 

I wrote here asking for advice...hoping maybe someone who has experience with men with these type of issues and asking if therapy can help and if it is possible to heal.

 

He becomes tortured when we are apart and misses me all the time.

 

I wrote because I wanted to see if there was any hope of ending the swing.

[mtnbiker3000]

OK. I hope you eventually find what you are seeking here...

[Zahara]

I've been in a relationship with a "commitment phobic" man. He's in his early 50s now. He won't commit to anyone. He wanted to go to therapy, and couldn't commit long enough to therapy as well. I understand the space but still wanting you there.

 

If I were you, I would cut all contact. Let him settle his divorce and get some of his shytt together since it seems as if the excuse is that he has too much to handle. Once all that is done, then you both can decide about therapy (if he has time for it). You shouldn't be investing or committing in someone that makes you an option. Be available only when he can start focusing on working through the relationship together, with both feet in.

[Never Again]

Commitmentphobia is indeed a thing.

 

However, this man does not sound like a commitmentphobe at all.

 

Those suckers up and RUN. They don't linger and MISS anyone. The very idea of getting close enough to anyone to actually MISS them causes them irrational anxiety and fear.

 

See, commitmentphobes don't waffle. It's not just about "commitment"...it's the idea of surrendering their independence, even without any form of official commitment, that terrifies them.

 

The better a relationship is, the more they "truly want to be with you", the more likely they are to bolt.

 

The fact that this guy is sticking around, and that he's conducted his other relationships like this, doesn't make him a commitmentphobe. He's not scared of it, he just doesn't WANT it. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

 

There's no condition to slap on him except for "selfish".

[ponchsox]

 

In past year, he has taken five months of space to break up with me or determine if he wants the relationship.

 

Translation = he wants to sleep with other women. Eject!

[LostConfused123]

Commitmentphobia is indeed a thing.

 

However, this man does not sound like a commitmentphobe at all.

 

Those suckers up and RUN. They don't linger and MISS anyone. The very idea of getting close enough to anyone to actually MISS them causes them irrational anxiety and fear.

 

See, commitmentphobes don't waffle. It's not just about "commitment"...it's the idea of surrendering their independence, even without any form of official commitment, that terrifies them.

 

The better a relationship is, the more they "truly want to be with you", the more likely they are to bolt.

 

The fact that this guy is sticking around, and that he's conducted his other relationships like this, doesn't make him a commitmentphobe. He's not scared of it, he just doesn't WANT it. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too.

 

There's no condition to slap on him except for "selfish".

That's what I was thinking. He sounds like a cake eater.

 

 

I'm not saying that to sound insensitive or uncaring because you are obviously tormented by this.

I really hope you find some peace in this situation and sadly the only way I see that happening is if you vanish from his life and love yourself more than you love him.

 

 

I wish you all the best!

((hugs!!)

[rosedl]

We are not going to see each other during this time, Zahara.

 

I guess I was asking if it was worth trying therapy, at all? Is it ridiculous to even be open to trying it?

 

The reality is that if you keep the option open to return to the relationship, it does impede your work of moving truly forward with your life. I am figuring out if it is worth waiting a couple of months or just throwing up my hands and grieving the relationship as ended.

 

People may be right about it not going to change. I am fully aware that it very well might not.

 

And, guitarheroine, I don't expect to change him. He states he wants to do the therapy and try again when the dust settles with the divorce. He would have to do the work.

 

And, relationships shouldn't be that much work? Well, given that we have a divorce rate in this country edging to 55% and more then half the people I know who are married for any length of time are unhappy, I would disagree. Relationships require work. When you are older and bringing half a life time of baggage to them, they can require a lot of it. Whether this one is worth the investment is my question, but the idea that good relationships aren't work is a myth or a rare exception.

 

Maybe commitment phobes...especially one as long as established as this don't change. It could be true.

[BlessYourCottonSocks]

rosedl, I was just like you. Trust me. Probably worse. I thought I had a commitment phobic man. I read every article about it and I was convinced everyone else was WRONG, I KNEW I could fix him!! Oh boy was I wrong.

 

Thing about the popular title of "commitment phobe", it's just a title to make ourselves feel better about loving someone who can't love us back. This guy may "love you and care for you", but not enough to sustain a healthy relationship. There is nothing you can do to change him. I'm sorry.

 

There is no such thing as a commitment phobe. If anything, they just don't want to commit to YOU. I'm sorry. It took me a LONG time to realize that too, but when you do (and you will in your own time), things will be a lot easier. There are no patterns or hidden signs. It's all a hoax. They will love someone else and give them exactly what you were looking for, it just won't be you. I know that hurts, but we have to face reality in order to move on. I know I had to. It doesn't make you a bad person, love just makes you a little off balance sometimes. We're here to help you balance out.

 

We often try to diagnose, fix or try to change others because we are helpless and attached. We become codependent and spin in circles trying to understand WHY they act this way. Don't fall victim to his games and his need to control you. You are his puppet right now, he keeps leaving because he knows you will let him back in.

 

He is so completely into me when he is into me....way more then any other guy. Dream partner. Helps me in my work, takes care of me, does home improvements to my house, spends all his time with me....Then, he gets claustrophobic and goes to the other extreme. He admits this pattern has driven out the women he loves and he has ended up being very lonely because of it.

 

This is a lot about getting what HE wants. My ex was "so into me" too. Did all of the above and more. And in his "off" moments he would run away and get scared, say mean things and ignore me. He also had patterns like this with other women he dated. Difference between me and the other woman? They were strong enough NOT to put up with it. I stayed thinking I could change him and heal him. But nope. I couldn't. Neither can you.

 

I wrote here asking for advice...hoping maybe someone who has experience with men with these type of issues and asking if therapy can help and if it is possible to heal.

 

Therapy could help if it's something he chooses to be apart of. But it's something he has to commit to on his own and it could take years! I have a plethora of advice and years of experience with this type of man so don't get mad at me. I'm telling you like it is because I had to learn the hard way. I have been in your shoes!!

 

He becomes tortured when we are apart and misses me all the time.

 

Yep. They can't commit to staying and can't commit to leaving. Tell me something I don't know sweetie.

 

I wrote because I wanted to see if there was any hope of ending the swing.

 

Yes, there is. You have to leave. Change zip codes if you must. This will go on for as long as you allow it or until he meets another woman. I swear to you, he won't change, not in your world.

 

Read up on "why men marry bitches" and "why men love bitches" It helped me regain my strength.

[Zahara]

I guess I was asking if it was worth trying therapy, at all? Is it ridiculous to even be open to trying it?.

 

Therapy isn't your problem. He has to decide if it is worth it. He has to decide if he wants it and he has to decide if he desires change. With therapy, he has to go on his own, work through it on his own and be consistently consistent on his own. You will have to step away because it will take months, years, that is if he can change. You live your life and keep moving forward. You do not want to be available to him while he's going to therapy because you will again invest in him not knowing if it's something he is going to be committed to doing for the long run.

[BlessYourCottonSocks]

I must tell you, my heart started pounding when I saw this thread. I always look out for threads like these because I can relate to them so well.

 

I don't believe in commitment phobia anymore after "studying" it for years. Sure, there could be fears involved, I believe that, but I also believe when you find the right person you won't want to run away every few months to recollect yourself. You won't discard them like trash because "you love them so much you began to become afraid" bullcrap. When you find the right one, you won't mislead them because you want to see what else is out there, but keep them on the back burner and use them till you find what it is your looking for. It's just a dumb term. It's just an excuse.

 

The other poster was right, relationships aren't this hard! And what she means by that is relationships that work won't make you feel like a loser, won't make you feel insecure, won't leave you when things get hard and they won't keep breaking up with you. Instead they will make you feel secure, confident, make you a better person and when things get rough, they will STAY and do whatever they can to make it work.

 

Right now, you are in a haze because your mind is focused on STAYING versus letting go and finding what you deserve.

 

It's okay. You will realize eventually. Even if that is 5 years from now. You will reach a point when you had enough.

[rosedl]

Blessyourcottonsox....

 

Thank you

 

I am almost there.

 

My post was about there being a chance with therapy if he might change. We have found a good highly respected therapist, he likes her, he admits his issue, and he is willing to go. If the divorce was not in the throes of the negotiations and work double full time, I don't doubt he would go right now. I am the one who wouldn't schedule out another appointment, he would have rescheduled then and there.

 

You are most likely totally right. My boundaries for reconciliation would be immediate therapy and addressing this issue before resuming a romantic relationship. I absolutely will not stay in the relationship as it has been. And, in the few months of separation required, I don't know how open I will even be to trying again.

 

Oh, and the somethingSox person above....

 

He doesn't want to sleep with other people. He is actually reluctant to get sexually involved as it can move him closer to commitment. It can take things to another level.

[ponchsox]

 

He doesn't want to sleep with other people. He is actually reluctant to get sexually involved as it can move him closer to commitment. It can take things to another level.

 

Guys don't think with the head on their shoulders (the other head.) And I'm sorry but a 5 month break is the same thing as a breakup. It's just a cowards way of doing it.

[rosedl]

Ponchsox

 

I am really not very far away from any of the replies on the forum.

 

In 99 out of a 100 cases, I agree. Men often think with the little head

 

The emotional attachment and not wanting to have a relationship with responsibility makes him avoid sex. We were friends for a couple years before we became involved romantically, and I know a lot of his history with women. Sleeping with women isn't the reason. Protection of his selfish lifestyle, maybe Refusal to grow, definitely possible.

[BlessYourCottonSocks]

My post was about there being a chance with therapy if he might change. We have found a good highly respected therapist, he likes her, he admits his issue, and he is willing to go.

 

That's great. He admitted his problem. Thing is, mine did also. He admitted I think to make me feel better and to stop pressing him about it. He also said he needed therapy and would go. Never did.

 

Willing to go is one thing, committing to make it a habit and working towards improving the problem is a whole other thing. Time will tell. I truly hope for the best in your case.

 

If the divorce was not in the throes of the negotiations and work double full time, I don't doubt he would go right now. I am the one who wouldn't schedule out another appointment, he would have rescheduled then and there.

 

There will always be excuses for things people don't find very important in their life. That's one thing I learned. Priorities come first. If he was serious about this (and you) this would be on the top of the list. It doesn't matter who didn't schedule the appointment or not, fact is...it's not his priority. You need to highlight that. Don't ever be second best. Throw the excuses to the side and stop defending him.

 

You are most likely totally right. My boundaries for reconciliation would be immediate therapy and addressing this issue before resuming a romantic relationship. I absolutely will not stay in the relationship as it has been. And, in the few months of separation required, I don't know how open I will even be to trying again.

 

If you were anything like me, this is your high moment. This is the moment you would like to think that you are this strong. But it will pass and you will succumb at a moment of weakness and go back to him. They have that way about them. And it was something I did often. The issue has already been addressed and the therapy has already been mentioned of. It's all up to him on whether he wants to proceed and "change".

 

But you also get a choice here too. Unfortunately, it's not that great of a choice. I just hope you don't waste anymore time with him. Take yourself back from the situation and see it for what it is.

[rosedl]

BlessyourCottonSox

 

I think you are right.

 

I am still struggling but it is moving more and more towards letting the relationship go and not going back again.

 

It won't be years. I doubt it will be months. Even weeks...

 

My thoughts are more and more just accepting the actual situation (we are broken up) and seeing this man is not really interested in a committed relationship with anyone as he has always sought out in his entire life, relationships that he could do the cake and eat it too, thing.

 

He is too selfish for a relationship. And, too selfish to not just let me go.

 

Oh well, at least he bought me a furnace before he left....there are worse consolation prizes.

 

I see he isn't capable nor desirous of a committed relationship and it is stupid to pin any hopes on his changing. Hell, he is following the playbook for all his old relationships. He was mean to them, I am not that special.

 

Thanks all

 

You have to realize, two months ago he said he wanted to be together forever and we were planning renovations in his house for the kitchen and hosting family parties. It is a big switch to just accept I am back here again.

 

I am in my forties. I have done break ups before. I can do them again. I don't need to hang on for years Blessyourcottonsox....I didn't come here for false reassurance, the perspective here has given me reinforcement that I am not crazy.

 

But, you are right sox, it is EASY to get sucked back in. I have to guard against that. I actually broke up with him yesterday then relented when he threw me crumbs. I am so mad at myself.

[BlessYourCottonSocks]

Honey, I'm not trying to upset you or make you feel small. I just can relate so much to your relationship and it's nice to talk to someone in the same position as you. The ones on here who gave me the tough love, I often despised because I hated how right they were. I was stuck in a fantasy world only hurting myself. I was in denial.

 

I am still struggling but it is moving more and more towards letting the relationship go and not going back again.

 

You will struggle, and I hope it won't be for year, months or weeks...but you have to make the final move. Block, go no contact, and move if you have too. There has to be no way of him being able to find you.

 

My thoughts are more and more just accepting the actual situation (we are broken up) and seeing this man is not really interested in a committed relationship with anyone as he has always sought out in his entire life, relationships that he could do the cake and eat it too, thing.

 

Stop focusing on him and who/what he is. People only tell/show you what they want you to hear/see. I'm sure there is more to his story. I could be wrong. But they often deceive you and this is part of their tactic to break you down enough for you to keep taking them back.

 

He is too selfish for a relationship. And, too selfish to not just let me go.

 

Your own actions are selfish for your own good. Don't leave it up to him to let you go, be the one to LET HIM GO.

 

Oh well, at least he bought me a furnace before he left....there are worse consolation prizes.

 

There ya go!! That's great! ;-p

 

I see he isn't capable nor desirous of a committed relationship and it is stupid to pin any hopes on his changing. Hell, he is following the playbook for all his old relationships. He was mean to them, I am not that special.

 

You are that special. He just is incapable of giving you what you want. He was the wrong guy for you. Not the other way around. He got what he wanted from you, you were the right girl for him, which is why he didn't need or want more out of the relationship. But you knew deep down inside you weren't happy with him or what he could offer you, which is why this relationship failed.

 

You have to realize, two months ago he said he wanted to be together forever and we were planning renovations in his house for the kitchen and hosting family parties. It is a big switch to just accept I am back here again.

 

I understand. I had big plans with my ex too. You gotta let the go. Words or just words. Actions are more important and him leaving you for x amount of time is enough to show you his words don't mean anything. It's all talk.

 

I am in my forties. I have done break ups before. I can do them again. I don't need to hang on for years Blessyourcottonsox....I didn't come here for false reassurance, the perspective here has given me reinforcement that I am not crazy.

 

I'm glad. I think you will do great without him!! You can do this and you will be a happier person for it!! I understand how painful it is to let the one you love go. and how sad it is to see they couldn't be what you wanted. This isn't your fault, don't blame yourself. This is all on him and who he is as a person.

 

But, you are right sox, it is EASY to get sucked back in. I have to guard against that. I actually broke up with him yesterday then relented when he threw me crumbs. I am so mad at myself.

 

What did he say?

[BC1980]

First, I would not even talk to him again unless he is officially divorced. There is so much going on in this situation that it's difficult to actually discern his reasons.

 

Second, I dealt with someone for 3 years, and I have wondered if he was a commitment phobe. I do think it's a real thing, but you have to be careful with labeling people. My ex also had a long standing history of commitment issues in all aspects of his life, not just romantic relationships. You might want to read up on emotionally unavailable people as well because it goes hand in hand with being unable to commit.

 

My ex was also hot and cold a lot of the times. He would talk a big game about getting married, and most of his actions reflected his desire for that. However, every time it came down to it, he would back off, or there would be some excuse for us not getting married. I thought it was me for a long time, and my self esteem really suffered for it. I kept thinking that if I could just do the right things, he would marry me. I realized it was more about him and that I had simply allowed him to treat me that way by showing that it was acceptable.

 

I think the best advice is not to try to help or fix these people. Just let them be. It's not even worth the effort. We can sit around and discuss commitment phobia/emotional unavailability all day long, but what good does it do? I think your time is better spent making yourself happy and moving on. We try so hard to come up with reasons that our exes left us, but it doesn't even matter. What matters is your future and making yourself happy. You relationship seems pretty stressful, and I don't know how much counseling would help. I can't suggest that you put any more time and effort into this relationship than you already have.

[whichwayisup]

You two may love one another a lot, but the dynamic going on that's been happening for years now is so unhealthy. Love is not supposed to be so draining, so painful and such a roller coaster ride.

 

He is a broken man, his coping skills and how handles stuff isn't normal and he has issues that are NOT yours. He has to fix himself, learn from his past mistakes and grow as a person.

 

You may always love him but it doesn't mean what you two share is long lasting and daily growing love together as a couple.

[BlessYourCottonSocks]

You two may love one another a lot, but the dynamic going on that's been happening for years now is so unhealthy. Love is not supposed to be so draining, so painful and such a roller coaster ride.

 

He is a broken man, his coping skills and how handles stuff isn't normal and he has issues that are NOT yours. He has to fix himself, learn from his past mistakes and grow as a person.

 

You may always love him but it doesn't mean what you two share is long lasting and daily growing love together as a couple.

 

That's the thing that I found hard to come to terms with. Love...sometimes it's just not enough.

[whichwayisup]

That's the thing that I found hard to come to terms with. Love...sometimes it's just not enough.

 

And this is also why many WS's don't leave their BS's for someone else, it isn't just about "love", it's everything combined together, and it's hard to walk away from a life you've invested years in, built a life, have kids. When one piece of it is missing or not felt like it once was, still isn't enough to make that person leave the marriage...Though it also explains why affairs happen, as it really does at times have nothing to do with the marriage or BS, it's the person who cheats is just bored and needs more than what their partner at home can give them.