Double betrayal

[cozycottagelg]

Thanks I have read them.

 

I apoligize if this thread comes across as heartless, wasn't the intention, I am just thinking about this a lot lately.

 

I don't think you're heartless at all. I'm not here to judge.

[Realist3]

We are working towards distancing emotionally but it's not easy.I would end the affair if I thought for a second it was suspected. But obviously that's not something I'm in full control of.

 

I don't think I want it to last forever anymore, like we originally planned.. I understand it has to end at some point and I hope it's without anyone getting hurt.

 

Distancing emotionally? Good luck with that. Been there, tried that, it doesn't work. In fact I would say that those attempts actually worked to make the bond stronger, not weaker.

 

 

Your last statement is kind of perplexing. For you what do you think would be a good length of time?

[lilmisscantbewrong]

What Bryan posted is most likely what will happen in your case.

 

I had this type of affair. You can look up my posts. We were all close - vacationed together, went to church together, went to dinner together, both my husband and I were at their wedding, xmom and I served on a worship team together as leaders.

 

He had really idolized me for a very long time and I knew it (he was younger). His wife knew it also, but kept very, very quiet. Our relationship was very platonic (almost brother/sister like) for many years. When we finally verbalized our mutual attraction, it didn't take long for it to move to a PA.

 

Now here is the rub - his wife never gave any indication she suspected. He thought he had her fooled - he never gave her any credit at all and now when I think about it was downright patronizing. But she had suspected and she had been reading our emails for 1 1/2 years at least - most of them very innocuous until the few weeks prior to the first time we were together physically. She uncovered one he thought he had deleted in which he told me he was "falling madly in love with his best friend". That day she followed him to where we met for lunch. Afterward she called him and said they needed to meet. That was the first Dday. She didn't want anyone to know, even my husband. So the three of us lived with this secret. I was emotionally drained and distraught for many reasons. At that point, I really did want to tell my husband, but then insanity took over. After being "good" for a couple of weeks, we were right back in it again.

 

Dday then occurred four months later with my husband confronting me. He suspected as well and was about ready to hire a PI.

 

I won't go into much else - you can read my previous posts. But I am here to tell you right now, this is one of THE most horrible situations you can ever get into. The trauma surrounding all of this is only now beginning to lift and it has been a full four years since dday for me. The fallout, the friends you thought would stand beside you, who don't, the family fallout, the church (that was the most horrible part, actually), the splitting of family and friends, the emotional turmoil not only for me but the pain my husband went through, etc. I feel like I really had PTSD.

 

I would never, ever wish this on my worst enemy - I'm telling you that in all sincerity and kindness. Even though the bomb hasn't gone off yet, it will and it will be one of the worst kinds of pain you have ever gone through. Distancing yourself will not work - Realist is right - it only creates a deeper bond between the two of you - a pining, unrequited love that only deepens the next time you are together.

 

And the last thing is that it is highly likely that they already suspect. Believe me - do not discount the intuition of his wife or your husband. They might be in denial, but they aren't stupid.

[Owl]

Distancing emotionally? Good luck with that. Been there, tried that, it doesn't work. In fact I would say that those attempts actually worked to make the bond stronger, not weaker.

 

 

Your last statement is kind of perplexing. For you what do you think would be a good length of time?

 

OMG...it's really rare when I agree with Realist. This should speak volumes about this situation.

 

He's right...trying to "wean" yourself off isn't going to work.

 

What I don't get is that you say you would end it in a moment if you thought it was going to be discovered...but then you make it clear that you won't take any action until it IS discovered.

 

The odds are you'll get no warning that it's about to be discovered...it's going to hit out of the blue one day.

 

Frankly, I find your posts filled with confusing/conflicting goals. You state that you'll end it if you think it'll come to d-day...but you'll divorce in a heartbeat if d-day hits.

 

You'll take zero action to change the situation as it stands now...but take immediate and drastic actions the moment it appears that you'll actually have to do something different.

 

You have zero remorse about what you're doing...but you'll take every measure once it's out in the open to protect the children...but do absolutely nothing to proactively prevent their potential emotional devestation before it hits.

 

You claim not to be heartless...and yet you've displayed some of the most openly self-centered, completely remorseless, and callous behavior towards your husband and family that I've seen in a long time here.

 

What is it really that you hope to gain from the folks here on LS? You've no intention of changing anything...and I can't see how any insight you gain here would be useful to you without any intent to change. What are you hoping to gain from LS?

[yellowmaverick]

What Bryan posted is most likely what will happen in your case.

 

I had this type of affair. You can look up my posts. We were all close - vacationed together, went to church together, went to dinner together, both my husband and I were at their wedding, xmom and I served on a worship team together as leaders.

 

He had really idolized me for a very long time and I knew it (he was younger). His wife knew it also, but kept very, very quiet. Our relationship was very platonic (almost brother/sister like) for many years. When we finally verbalized our mutual attraction, it didn't take long for it to move to a PA.

 

Now here is the rub - his wife never gave any indication she suspected. He thought he had her fooled - he never gave her any credit at all and now when I think about it was downright patronizing. But she had suspected and she had been reading our emails for 1 1/2 years at least - most of them very innocuous until the few weeks prior to the first time we were together physically. She uncovered one he thought he had deleted in which he told me he was "falling madly in love with his best friend". That day she followed him to where we met for lunch. Afterward she called him and said they needed to meet. That was the first Dday. She didn't want anyone to know, even my husband. So the three of us lived with this secret. I was emotionally drained and distraught for many reasons. At that point, I really did want to tell my husband, but then insanity took over. After being "good" for a couple of weeks, we were right back in it again.

 

Dday then occurred four months later with my husband confronting me. He suspected as well and was about ready to hire a PI.

 

I won't go into much else - you can read my previous posts. But I am here to tell you right now, this is one of THE most horrible situations you can ever get into. The trauma surrounding all of this is only now beginning to lift and it has been a full four years since dday for me. The fallout, the friends you thought would stand beside you, who don't, the family fallout, the church (that was the most horrible part, actually), the splitting of family and friends, the emotional turmoil not only for me but the pain my husband went through, etc. I feel like I really had PTSD.

 

I would never, ever wish this on my worst enemy - I'm telling you that in all sincerity and kindness. Even though the bomb hasn't gone off yet, it will and it will be one of the worst kinds of pain you have ever gone through. Distancing yourself will not work - Realist is right - it only creates a deeper bond between the two of you - a pining, unrequited love that only deepens the next time you are together.

 

And the last thing is that it is highly likely that they already suspect. Believe me - do not discount the intuition of his wife or your husband. They might be in denial, but they aren't stupid.

 

Well said, but people always think that this ^^ won't happen to them.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Oh yeah - the fog - it will never happen. But it does and it is devastating to everyone when it does.

 

Hayley - my .02 cents is to confess. It will be bad, but I think honestly it will be your best bet. I know (believe me) how hard this is (will be), but it will bode a little better for you than being discovered - and my opinion is that you will be discovered.

[hayleym]

Distancing emotionally? Good luck with that. Been there, tried that, it doesn't work. In fact I would say that those attempts actually worked to make the bond stronger, not weaker.

 

 

Your last statement is kind of perplexing. For you what do you think would be a good length of time?

 

I agree. The space has made us closer :/ so yes it's not as easy as Id like.

 

In all honestly I'd be happy if it last forever. He talks about us continuing in our forties, we are in our late twenties now. I just don't know if that's realistic and wonder if its more likely to be possible to last longer if we do try and distance from the emotional connection. Although that is my favourite part and I don't want to, these are just thoughts I'm having, things I'm considering.

[drifter777]

I believe you when you say you have no plans of ever ending your affair or divorcing your husband. I also believe that you are against reconciliation if he does find out.

 

I think I understand that you consider your life about as perfect as it can get. You have some level of security and companionship with your husband and the excitement and passion of a part-time lover. It sounds like a dream situation for a person who needs more than their partner can provide. What I don't understand is why you posted a thread asking if the betrayal is worse when the AP is a friend/relative. Why do you care about this one way or the other? You have mapped out the whole thing including the D-Day scenario's so what are you looking for?

[Chi townD]

So, if you have this perfect little life, then why the hell are you even posting here?

 

Here's whatI find most disturbing. That you like the safety and security of the family and the home but you also like screwing this other guy. And if your affair was ever discovered, then you'll just divorce. No skin off your nose. Just throw it away. OH WELL!!

 

Here's the deal, you don't deserve your husband. You don't deserve that safety and security that you have right now. Because you have absolutely NO GUILT over the pain that you're causing. And WHEN, not if but, WHEN your affair is discovered and you finally see the pain and hurt in his eyes, maybe then you'll buy a clue. Until you're affair is discovered, you'll remain clueless.

 

You'll destroy your home and family and you'll destroy the OMW. The one you consider a friend. How can you socialize with her and not feel guilty about bedding her husband? Do you get a cheap thrill from it?

 

Starting to think bunnies are hopping around here.

[hayleym]

If you feel just fine, then I can guess at the personality disorder.

 

You can go ahead and try to guess but I would imagine you would guess sociopath or narssisist? That's been thrown around so much.

 

She actually is under the impression I have a histrionic personality disorder brought on by childhood trauma and a lot of other things, not sure if that's what this is, Id never even heard of it but the traits describe me to a t :/

 

I have a lot of emotional feelings about this situation they are just different than what the majority of people tell me they feel in similar circumstances.

[Sub]

In all honestly I'd be happy if it last forever. He talks about us continuing in our forties, we are in our late twenties now. I just don't know if that's realistic and wonder if its more likely to be possible to last longer if we do try and distance from the emotional connection. Although that is my favourite part and I don't want to, these are just thoughts I'm having, things I'm considering.

 

Just as a word of advice: How you feel now in your late twenties is going to be very different than how you feel in your mid-thirties, let alone your forties. It's not realistic. I know it's hard not to think outside the fantasy that you're living, but if you're the same people then as you are now, that would be very unfortunate.

[Owl]

I'd agree...the traits of HPD describe what you've outlined quite well.

 

The question becomes...what are you going to do about that diagnosis?

 

Let it be your excuse for your behavior?

 

Or as a catalyst for change?

[hayleym]

OMG...it's really rare when I agree with Realist. This should speak volumes about this situation.

 

He's right...trying to "wean" yourself off isn't going to work.

 

What I don't get is that you say you would end it in a moment if you thought it was going to be discovered...but then you make it clear that you won't take any action until it IS discovered.

 

The odds are you'll get no warning that it's about to be discovered...it's going to hit out of the blue one day.

 

Frankly, I find your posts filled with confusing/conflicting goals. You state that you'll end it if you think it'll come to d-day...but you'll divorce in a heartbeat if d-day hits.

 

You'll take zero action to change the situation as it stands now...but take immediate and drastic actions the moment it appears that you'll actually have to do something different.

 

You have zero remorse about what you're doing...but you'll take every measure once it's out in the open to protect the children...but do absolutely nothing to proactively prevent their potential emotional devestation before it hits.

 

You claim not to be heartless...and yet you've displayed some of the most openly self-centered, completely remorseless, and callous behavior towards your husband and family that I've seen in a long time here.

 

What is it really that you hope to gain from the folks here on LS? You've no intention of changing anything...and I can't see how any insight you gain here would be useful to you without any intent to change. What are you hoping to gain from LS?

 

I started IC because people here suggested I try it. So I think that in itself is a lot gained from coming here.

[Fluttershy]

I'd agree...the traits of HPD describe what you've outlined quite well.

 

The question becomes...what are you going to do about that diagnosis?

 

Let it be your excuse for your behavior?

 

Or as a catalyst for change?

 

I hate when people take HPD as an excuse to continue their rotten behaviour. I saw a friend do that but thankfully, he decided to take action to change gis behaviour. Sadly it was after he lost everything and his friends. But he is rebuilding his life right now. He would be the first to urge people who get given a diagnosis to put on their big boy pants and seek to better themsleves. Not to say "oh well, this is who I am."

[hayleym]

I believe you when you say you have no plans of ever ending your affair or divorcing your husband. I also believe that you are against reconciliation if he does find out.

 

I think I understand that you consider your life about as perfect as it can get. You have some level of security and companionship with your husband and the excitement and passion of a part-time lover. It sounds like a dream situation for a person who needs more than their partner can provide. What I don't understand is why you posted a thread asking if the betrayal is worse when the AP is a friend/relative. Why do you care about this one way or the other? You have mapped out the whole thing including the D-Day scenario's so what are you looking for?

 

I just wanted to open the discussion and have a lot of thoughts about this, wanted to hear opinions on it , other than just people trying to convince me I'm a sociopath and its wrong. I already know it wrong. I don't need to be told that.

 

I'm also wondering how often this occurrs and how it was discovered if it was because that's something I think about. Nothing more nothing less.

[hayleym]

I'd agree...the traits of HPD describe what you've outlined quite well.

 

The question becomes...what are you going to do about that diagnosis?

 

Let it be your excuse for your behavior?

 

Or as a catalyst for change?

 

No idea. Every time I've talked to anyone about myself they suggest anti depressants. If you knew me, you would know I'm far from depressed. I roll my eyes every time medication is suggested.

 

I'm told my best bet is talk therapy. Possible hypnosis to learn more about my past traumas but again I've only had a few sessions with this woman.. All over two hours long though. So I'm really considering everything I'm learning from her.

[Owl]

No idea. Every time I've talked to anyone about myself they suggest anti depressants. If you knew me, you would know I'm far from depressed. I roll my eyes every time medication is suggested.

 

I'm told my best bet is talk therapy. Possible hypnosis to learn more about my past traumas but again I've only had a few sessions with this woman.. All over two hours long though. So I'm really considering everything I'm learning from her.

 

Well...here's my base question I guess.

 

Do you WANT to change? Do you WANT to break this diagnosis, become a better person, a better wife?

 

Or do you want to use this as an excuse not to change?

[hayleym]

I hate when people take HPD as an excuse to continue their rotten behaviour. I saw a friend do that but thankfully, he decided to take action to change gis behaviour. Sadly it was after he lost everything and his friends. But he is rebuilding his life right now. He would be the first to urge people who get given a diagnosis to put on their big boy pants and seek to better themsleves. Not to say "oh well, this is who I am."

 

Oh I am not using it as an excuse. Far from it. I had never even heard of it before, and I make my own choices, I am not a victim blindly following this OM or a slave to my feelings at all.

 

It does however describe me like it was a study purely based on my past. It's not an excuse and I've not tried to justify what I'm doing.

[hayleym]

Well...here's my base question I guess.

 

Do you WANT to change? Do you WANT to break this diagnosis, become a better person, a better wife?

 

Or do you want to use this as an excuse not to change?

 

I'm incredibly fascinated that its possible there is a reason why my line of thought has always been so different from the people around me. In all honesty I just want to know what it feels like to feel 'normal' but no at tht exact moment I don't want to change because I'm fine and happy It's the possibility of discovery and the tragedy of that, which had me going to IC in the first place. No I don't want to change. But I may have to and I accept that.

 

I feel like that makes no sense.

[cozycottagelg]

No idea. Every time I've talked to anyone about myself they suggest anti depressants. If you knew me, you would know I'm far from depressed. I roll my eyes every time medication is suggested.

 

I'm told my best bet is talk therapy. Possible hypnosis to learn more about my past traumas but again I've only had a few sessions with this woman.. All over two hours long though. So I'm really considering everything I'm learning from her.

 

I think often times when people can't explain a behavior, medication is suggested. I am unhappy in my marriage and I have had a few people tell me I need anti-depressants. I'm not depressed, I'm miserable in a situation. Those are two different things as far as I'm concerned.

 

You are definitely the minority here, but nothing you have said is telling me you need medication.

[Sub]

Just out of curiosity, does your H know you're in IC? And if so, why does he think you're there?

[Fluttershy]

Never said you were using it as an excuse. Just said he did though he didn't really think he was at the time. I know he does not use medication either. I don't think medication is the answer. Morals, empathy, character, and right actions are not something you take in a pill.

[Owl]

I'm incredibly fascinated that its possible there is a reason why my line of thought has always been so different from the people around me. In all honesty I just want to know what it feels like to feel 'normal' but no at tht exact moment I don't want to change because I'm fine and happy It's the possibility of discovery and the tragedy of that, which had me going to IC in the first place. No I don't want to change. But I may have to and I accept that.

 

I feel like that makes no sense.

 

Then those around you will be the ones to pay the price for your decision. It's relatively easy for you to shake off/ignore the negative repercussions for yourself.

 

All you have to do is divorce and walk away as soon as d-day hits. Drop your friendship with OM, and his wife, and you won't see their pain or struggles to recover their marriage either.

 

Then you won't have to face/deal with their pain. You can turn a blind eye to the pain that the children have...justify it to yourself by saying that you never meant for them to be hurt...even though you know full well today you're proceeding with the awareness that they very likely will be.

 

There's really nothing left to be said on the subject, I think.

 

Your betrayal is nothing special or unique...others have done the same thing to their families/spouses/friends for all of history. The only unique thing about your situation is how little you actually seem to care that it's going to happen.

[drifter777]

I just wanted to open the discussion and have a lot of thoughts about this, wanted to hear opinions on it , other than just people trying to convince me I'm a sociopath and its wrong. I already know it wrong. I don't need to be told that.

 

I'm also wondering how often this occurs and how it was discovered if it was because that's something I think about. Nothing more nothing less.

Ok, so it's kind of an interesting academic exercise? Fine. But remember that you are simply a tourist in the world of a BS and cannot understand the extent of damage your betrayal can do to your husband. Again, no judgement - just my opinion.

[peruano99]

Do your husband a favor, tell him and divorce him. Then you and your lover can live a life together.