No Longer the OW...meeting his kids

[a_roman_holiday]

Our relationship started as an affair early in 2013. It was just physical at first. He knew he wanted a divorce. After reading different posts on this site... I took a lot of it as just talk.... It wasn't. He separated in the spring, filed for divorce in the summer, was granted the divorce in the fall.

 

Ignoring several hiccups (during the affair we tried to be just friends for several periods). We've been seeing each other for nearly a year. Serious for about six months.

 

All of my friends and family know of our relationship. My friends are all supportive, because they know that I am happy. My family is not speaking to me. His mother has been very accepting and also knows all of the details of how we began dating.

 

The sticking point right now are his kids. I have not met them and am extremely hesitant to. Even though he and his ex had argued and discussed divorce many times and ultimately they divorced due to existing problems... his ex told his children in great detail that the reason she and their father were divorcing was that he cheated. She told them who I was.

 

His oldest is 16. He took the news hard when his dad left and stopped speaking to him for nearly 3 months. His daughter (12) didn't act much differently towards her dad, but often says things that very much beyond her years to say (mimicking things her mother said to her?) about the affair, the divorce, etc.

 

Their mother's boyfriend moved in a month after they separated. The kids didn't take this well.

 

He;s talked to me about me meeting them several times now. I think he's getting impatient with having to hide me. I'm hesitant because they've had a really hard year. I don't know that there will ever be a good time to meet them (I'm expecting a lot of hard feelings and anger. Best case this is only directed at me and doesn't affect their relationship with their father), but I think that now is too soon.

 

Do you agree that it's best to wait? Do any of you have similar experiences?

[experiencethedevine]

Our relationship started as an affair early in 2013. It was just physical at first. He knew he wanted a divorce. After reading different posts on this site... I took a lot of it as just talk.... It wasn't. He separated in the spring, filed for divorce in the summer, was granted the divorce in the fall.

 

Ignoring several hiccups (during the affair we tried to be just friends for several periods). We've been seeing each other for nearly a year. Serious for about six months.

 

All of my friends and family know of our relationship. My friends are all supportive, because they know that I am happy. My family is not speaking to me. His mother has been very accepting and also knows all of the details of how we began dating.

 

The sticking point right now are his kids. I have not met them and am extremely hesitant to. Even though he and his ex had argued and discussed divorce many times and ultimately they divorced due to existing problems... his ex told his children in great detail that the reason she and their father were divorcing was that he cheated. She told them who I was.

 

His oldest is 16. He took the news hard when his dad left and stopped speaking to him for nearly 3 months. His daughter (12) didn't act much differently towards her dad, but often says things that very much beyond her years to say (mimicking things her mother said to her?) about the affair, the divorce, etc.

 

Their mother's boyfriend moved in a month after they separated. The kids didn't take this well.

 

He;s talked to me about me meeting them several times now. I think he's getting impatient with having to hide me. I'm hesitant because they've had a really hard year. I don't know that there will ever be a good time to meet them (I'm expecting a lot of hard feelings and anger. Best case this is only directed at me and doesn't affect their relationship with their father), but I think that now is too soon.

 

Do you agree that it's best to wait? Do any of you have similar experiences?

 

 

You would probably both be wise to allow the children to decide when/if they want to meet you. Forcing such an issue (even by their Father), might produce adverse reactions as you state.

 

I am in agreement that waiting would be more prudent. The children are of an age where they will have distinct feelings of their own about the situation, regardless of what has been bandied about between their parents.

[threelaurels]

It's definitely best to wait to meet them. These kids are going through a lot. In the past year: (1) their parents have divorced, (2) they found out their father had an affair, and (3) another man moved into their home. That's a lot to deal with. What these kids really need right now is stability.

 

There may never really be a "good" time to meet his kids, but your chances are better the longer you wait. Right now, I'm sure they feel a lot of anger toward you. If you meet them too soon, their vision of you will be clouded by that anger. No matter what you do, they won't like you. After they have had to process their emotions and take a step back, they may be willing to give you a chance.

 

You need to have a conversation with your boyfriend about this. It's understandable that he doesn't want to hide you and wants to be out in the open, but he needs to be putting their best interests over his own desires right now.

[carhill]

IMO, given the newness of his D and living separately from his ex-spouse and working through custody arrangements and the inevitable hiccups, and with the holiday season upon us, I'd wait until next year and tangential to events/interactions relevant to you and he.

 

His children will like you or they won't like you. It's outside of your control. I'd see it as a neutral issue, since they're children, and leave the positive example of child-adult interaction behavior up to him to measure, provide and enforce.

 

My only anecdote of your circumstances was with a fOW whom took nearly five years of 'work' to get her BF's minor children to interact with her successfully. My personal observation was they tolerated he and she living together and didn't treat her inappropriately, at least while I was around anyway, but IMO the tone was 'strained'. His family didn't particularly care for her. It sounds like the circumstances of their meeting were similar to yours. Perhaps I came along at a pivotal time, with the competition causing him to work harder to integrate the children and his now girlfriend. Today they are happily cohabiting and the children are young adults. Life goes on.

 

Good luck

[whichwayisup]

He;s talked to me about me meeting them several times now. I think he's getting impatient with having to hide me. I'm hesitant because they've had a really hard year. I don't know that there will ever be a good time to meet them (I'm expecting a lot of hard feelings and anger. Best case this is only directed at me and doesn't affect their relationship with their father), but I think that now is too soon.

 

Listen to your gut, if you're not ready to meet them, then don't. You're right, they've had a tough year emotionally and now is too soon. You'll know when the timing is better and it feels right.

 

Don't let him push you into meeting them. It's actually really refreshing to read that you're putting their welfare first, above your R with their father.

 

All the best to you.

[krazikat]

Our relationship started as an affair early in 2013. It was just physical at first. He knew he wanted a divorce. After reading different posts on this site... I took a lot of it as just talk.... It wasn't. He separated in the spring, filed for divorce in the summer, was granted the divorce in the fall.

 

Ignoring several hiccups (during the affair we tried to be just friends for several periods). We've been seeing each other for nearly a year. Serious for about six months.

 

All of my friends and family know of our relationship. My friends are all supportive, because they know that I am happy. My family is not speaking to me. His mother has been very accepting and also knows all of the details of how we began dating.

 

The sticking point right now are his kids. I have not met them and am extremely hesitant to. Even though he and his ex had argued and discussed divorce many times and ultimately they divorced due to existing problems... his ex told his children in great detail that the reason she and their father were divorcing was that he cheated. She told them who I was.

 

His oldest is 16. He took the news hard when his dad left and stopped speaking to him for nearly 3 months. His daughter (12) didn't act much differently towards her dad, but often says things that very much beyond her years to say (mimicking things her mother said to her?) about the affair, the divorce, etc.

 

Their mother's boyfriend moved in a month after they separated. The kids didn't take this well.

 

He;s talked to me about me meeting them several times now. I think he's getting impatient with having to hide me. I'm hesitant because they've had a really hard year. I don't know that there will ever be a good time to meet them (I'm expecting a lot of hard feelings and anger. Best case this is only directed at me and doesn't affect their relationship with their father), but I think that now is too soon.

 

Do you agree that it's best to wait? Do any of you have similar experiences?

 

This is a toxic mess for the kids! The bf MOVED IN just a month after separation? How confusing amd upsetting this must be for the kids. And these kids are older, they could be hearing things from a variety of places, even the.12.year old. How sad. It sounds like you may be the only one really thinking about these kids. I have not read any other answers yet I just had to say this.

[yellowmaverick]

Our relationship started as an affair early in 2013. It was just physical at first. He knew he wanted a divorce. After reading different posts on this site... I took a lot of it as just talk.... It wasn't. He separated in the spring, filed for divorce in the summer, was granted the divorce in the fall.

 

Ignoring several hiccups (during the affair we tried to be just friends for several periods). We've been seeing each other for nearly a year. Serious for about six months.

 

All of my friends and family know of our relationship. My friends are all supportive, because they know that I am happy. My family is not speaking to me. His mother has been very accepting and also knows all of the details of how we began dating.

 

The sticking point right now are his kids. I have not met them and am extremely hesitant to. Even though he and his ex had argued and discussed divorce many times and ultimately they divorced due to existing problems... his ex told his children in great detail that the reason she and their father were divorcing was that he cheated. She told them who I was. I

 

His oldest is 16. He took the news hard when his dad left and stopped speaking to him for nearly 3 months. His daughter (12) didn't act much differently towards her dad, but often says things that very much beyond her years to say (mimicking things her mother said to her?) about the affair, the divorce, etc.

 

Their mother's boyfriend moved in a month after they separated. The kids didn't take this well.

 

He;s talked to me about me meeting them several times now. I think he's getting impatient with having to hide me. I'm hesitant because they've had a really hard year. I don't know that there will ever be a good time to meet them (I'm expecting a lot of hard feelings and anger. Best case this is only directed at me and doesn't affect their relationship with their father), but I think that now is too soon.

 

Do you agree that it's best to wait? Do any of you have similar experiences?

 

Please try to put yourself in their shoes. Let them be. They are old enough to decide when, if ever, they want to meet you. Understand that to them you are an unwelcome intruder in their lives.

[krazikat]

Okay, initial rant out of my system and time taken to think about this. This is a tough situation in all honesty, one that has been traumatic for these kids. As a BS I have a history of a hard stance against As....and I have never cheated on anyone in my life. But I am feeling a bit different about you than my normal reaction at ow stories.

 

From the little you have shared, it seems likely the BS was also a WS. The fact that her bf moved in immediately after separation kinda supports that. If she just met him and moved him in...even worse. Whatever it was, there seems to have been no thought or care as to the impact this would have on these kids.

 

I am going to go against the grain here. I think that you should explore meeting them now. No need to wait til things calm down and then flare it up again. But I suggest ic for those kids. Perhaps ic and family counseling to help ease into the introduction. You seem to really think about these kids, more so than the parents. So you may be a good Balance in their lives.

 

And I can't believe I just went there. I never thought I would be saying this. But I-yi-yi what a mess.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I don't see where he has to hide the relationship. He can tell them about you, and leave the decision if they want to meet you, up to them.

 

Giving the kids some control right now, would benefit them. Their lives have been turned upside down, without any input from them.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Ask the children if they want to meet you. Let it be their decision and follow their lead. Do not force this if you want to build a good relationship - or any kind of relationship with them for that matter.

 

As a child whose father left my mother for the OW, I HATED her. She was forced upon me and we NEVER got to see Dad without her being around. I stopped going to visitation because I hated the whole situation. I hated HER from 9 up until my 20s (and that included a 6 month stint where I went to live with her - what a disaster!). I refused to go their wedding.

 

I also knew the details of the separation because my mother told me. SHe was hurt, devastated and bitter. That's part of the affair that you cant control. You cant control what someone does with the information once they know, you cant control how the kids find out and you cant control their reaction to this.

 

The facts are, he had an affair and he left. He left his wife AND his kids. They feel betrayed. They think you are to blame. You caused their mother pain and they are loyal to her. Their response is normal. Affairs devastate children.

 

The only thing you can do is give it time. Forcing it will likely alienate them more.

[Popsicle]

Have you told your man these thoughts for him to consider about his children being uncomfortable with you? I would be scared/hesitant to meet them too but I would still meet them. I take the position, if you don't, he'll find someone else who will.

[a_roman_holiday]

Okay, initial rant out of my system and time taken to think about this. This is a tough situation in all honesty, one that has been traumatic for these kids. As a BS I have a history of a hard stance against As....and I have never cheated on anyone in my life. But I am feeling a bit different about you than my normal reaction at ow stories.

 

From the little you have shared, it seems likely the BS was also a WS. The fact that her bf moved in immediately after separation kinda supports that. If she just met him and moved him in...even worse. Whatever it was, there seems to have been no thought or care as to the impact this would have on these kids.

 

I am going to go against the grain here. I think that you should explore meeting them now. No need to wait til things calm down and then flare it up again. But I suggest ic for those kids. Perhaps ic and family counseling to help ease into the introduction. You seem to really think about these kids, more so than the parents. So you may be a good Balance in their lives.

 

And I can't believe I just went there. I never thought I would be saying this. But I-yi-yi what a mess.

I don't know if she was seeing him before or not. It's certainly not my place to ask or judge. They don't know that we're still seeing each other. He never brings up dating with them and I can understand that.... it's odd to discuss your love life with your kids.

 

I'm a bit embarrassed but I don't know what "ic" stands for.

 

Both kids went through therapy for about six months to help them cope. His son is having some problems again with the holidays coming up. But, he is also most firm about not wanting to return to therapy.

[a_roman_holiday]

Ask the children if they want to meet you. Let it be their decision and follow their lead. Do not force this if you want to build a good relationship - or any kind of relationship with them for that matter.

 

As a child whose father left my mother for the OW, I HATED her. She was forced upon me and we NEVER got to see Dad without her being around. I stopped going to visitation because I hated the whole situation. I hated HER from 9 up until my 20s (and that included a 6 month stint where I went to live with her - what a disaster!). I refused to go their wedding.

 

I also knew the details of the separation because my mother told me. SHe was hurt, devastated and bitter. That's part of the affair that you cant control. You cant control what someone does with the information once they know, you cant control how the kids find out and you cant control their reaction to this.

 

The facts are, he had an affair and he left. He left his wife AND his kids. They feel betrayed. They think you are to blame. You caused their mother pain and they are loyal to her. Their response is normal. Affairs devastate children.

 

The only thing you can do is give it time. Forcing it will likely alienate them more.

 

 

Right now they don't know we're dating. It's not hard to er.... shelter them from it, because he didn't get custody. He gets them every other weekend and whenever she's out of town for business.

 

So, part of what needs to happen is that he needs to tell him that he's dating, and the second part is meeting them. I really like your idea of asking them what they're comfortable with.

 

It seems selfish to as, but since you were on the other end of this... if things were handled the way you suggested, do you think you could have had a relationship with her?

 

Do you think delaying them knowing we're dating is all right? I'm torn about it. I really do think they've been through too much lately and want to give them a break, but krazikat's post made me think that it might be best to get that over with, so they can get on with things.

 

No matter what, I'll leave up my interaction in their lives up to them.

[a_roman_holiday]

Have you told your man these thoughts for him to consider about his children being uncomfortable with you? I would be scared/hesitant to meet them too but I would still meet them. I take the position, if you don't, he'll find someone else who will.

We've talked about what to do about the kids knowing at length. He knows my hesitations and certainly he has his own. However, things have been good with his kids and his relationship with them for three months now and I think he's getting more comfortable with the idea. He suggested after the holidays (since they're stressful for everyone).

 

I certainly would like to meet them (he talks about them all the time). They sound like amazing kids. I just don't want to rush things or force the issue and lose the slim chance that they might accept me.

[carhill]

I'm a bit embarrassed but I don't know what "ic" stands for.

 

IC = Individual Counseling

 

Sounds like the kids are in IC or FC (family counseling)

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Right now they don't know we're dating. It's not hard to er.... shelter them from it, because he didn't get custody. He gets them every other weekend and whenever she's out of town for business.

 

So, part of what needs to happen is that he needs to tell him that he's dating, and the second part is meeting them. I really like your idea of asking them what they're comfortable with.

 

It seems selfish to as, but since you were on the other end of this... if things were handled the way you suggested, do you think you could have had a relationship with her?

 

Do you think delaying them knowing we're dating is all right? I'm torn about it. I really do think they've been through too much lately and want to give them a break, but krazikat's post made me think that it might be best to get that over with, so they can get on with things.

 

No matter what, I'll leave up my interaction in their lives up to them.

 

 

So many things here.

What do you mean they don't know you are dating? They know about the affair and they know who you are. If they have been lied to about your current relationship this will only add another layer to the betrayal they feel.

The longer you hold this information from them, the harder it will be because of the continued lying.

 

His kids are 12 and 16. They are not stupid. They have a clue. I was 9 and figured it out. Are you two living together? If not, are there signs of you around where he lives??

 

Why didnt he get 50/50 custody? This also is not great for the relationship. Put yourself in the kids shoes. Dad had an affair, left the family home, and is now only seeing them every second weekend. Is tough for kids not to feel abandoned. Do you have children of your own? Resentment may build there also if you do. I was incredibly jealous of the time my step sister got with MY father that I didnt.

 

I have an easy relationship now with my stepmother. She is a nice lady and a great mum to her daughters. A good grandmother too. It took a good 11-12 years to get over the pain, the jealousy, the hatred and stop blaming her. I had to be an adult before I could understand my dad was just as culpable. I will never forget the pain that we went through, but they have been married for 25 years, and my parents were only together for 10. That says something in itself.

 

So dont insult their intelligence. Tell them the truth. Let them decide when they are ready. But be prepared that it may take a long time. The hurt is real. This is the sad difference between when parents divorce due to irreconcilable differences or whether one party has an affair on the way out. Doesnt matter about the state of the marriage prior, unfortunately, and the cheating will be their father's legacy. Sad but true.

[BurnedAndLost]

This is a toxic mess for the kids! The bf MOVED IN just a month after separation? How confusing amd upsetting this must be for the kids. And these kids are older, they could be hearing things from a variety of places, even the.12.year old. How sad. It sounds like you may be the only one really thinking about these kids. I have not read any other answers yet I just had to say this.

 

Her boyfriend cheated and left them other of his children and she willingly got involved with a married man, yet SHE is the only one who is thinking of the kids? That's laughable. I don't condone women letting their new man move in so quickly while their children are on the house but she, and her boyfriend are no better. Yuck . Gotta love how the BS is always turned in to the monster when affairs end in divorce.

 

You need to leave his children alone. If one day they choose to have a relationship with you, then great. But don't force, or expect them to make that decision any time soon.

[whichwayisup]

Both kids went through therapy for about six months to help them cope. His son is having some problems again with the holidays coming up. But, he is also most firm about not wanting to return to therapy.

Who the son doesn't want anymore counseling or his father aka your boyfriend now doesn't want him to return to therapy? Sorry maybe it's how you worded that.. Really hope that I read it wrong and misunderstood.

[Popsicle]

We've talked about what to do about the kids knowing at length. He knows my hesitations and certainly he has his own. However, things have been good with his kids and his relationship with them for three months now and I think he's getting more comfortable with the idea. He suggested after the holidays (since they're stressful for everyone).

 

I certainly would like to meet them (he talks about them all the time). They sound like amazing kids. I just don't want to rush things or force the issue and lose the slim chance that they might accept me.

 

Do it.....

[a_roman_holiday]

Who the son doesn't want anymore counseling or his father aka your boyfriend now doesn't want him to return to therapy? Sorry maybe it's how you worded that.. Really hope that I read it wrong and misunderstood.

 

The son doesn't want therapy. His father doesn't want to push him back into it, but has told him he thinks it's a good idea.

[krazikat]

Her boyfriend cheated and left them other of his children and she willingly got involved with a married man, yet SHE is the only one who is thinking of the kids? That's laughable. I don't condone women letting their new man move in so quickly while their children are on the house but she, and her boyfriend are no better. Yuck . Gotta love how the BS is always turned in to the monster when affairs end in divorce.

 

You need to leave his children alone. If one day they choose to have a relationship with you, then great. But don't force, or expect them to make that decision any time soon.

 

Blah blah blah. Have you read any of my other posts get real and then read it again you are laughable. As I stated this situation is effing toxic. Do you know the definition of toxic? Should I define it for you?

 

Anyway back on topic to op, as I also stated, ic for those kids. They are going to need to help them figure out their new world.

[ClemsonTigers]

Our relationship started as an affair early in 2013. It was just physical at first. He knew he wanted a divorce. After reading different posts on this site... I took a lot of it as just talk.... It wasn't. He separated in the spring, filed for divorce in the summer, was granted the divorce in the fall.

 

Ignoring several hiccups (during the affair we tried to be just friends for several periods). We've been seeing each other for nearly a year. Serious for about six months.

 

All of my friends and family know of our relationship. My friends are all supportive, because they know that I am happy. My family is not speaking to me. His mother has been very accepting and also knows all of the details of how we began dating.

 

The sticking point right now are his kids. I have not met them and am extremely hesitant to. Even though he and his ex had argued and discussed divorce many times and ultimately they divorced due to existing problems... his ex told his children in great detail that the reason she and their father were divorcing was that he cheated. She told them who I was.

 

His oldest is 16. He took the news hard when his dad left and stopped speaking to him for nearly 3 months. His daughter (12) didn't act much differently towards her dad, but often says things that very much beyond her years to say (mimicking things her mother said to her?) about the affair, the divorce, etc.

 

Their mother's boyfriend moved in a month after they separated. The kids didn't take this well.

 

He;s talked to me about me meeting them several times now. I think he's getting impatient with having to hide me. I'm hesitant because they've had a really hard year. I don't know that there will ever be a good time to meet them (I'm expecting a lot of hard feelings and anger. Best case this is only directed at me and doesn't affect their relationship with their father), but I think that now is too soon.

 

Do you agree that it's best to wait? Do any of you have similar experiences?

 

About 9 out of 10 affairs don't last 2 years and it's been estimated that only 3 in 100 last 5 years. You've only been serious with your paramour for 6 months. What's the rush? These kids are still in trauma. Chances are they will be mean to you anyway and you don't need that kind of drama.

 

Point is…you played a part in the destruction of their family. I'd consider a big part and you, I'm sure, feel it was a small part but it was "a part" nonetheless. As such, why force an introduction to someone that hurt them to some extent? Now maybe if you are one of the unfortunate affair couples that last 12…18…or 24 months after the divorce then maybe, just maybe the kids will be receptive to meeting you. For your sake and theirs…just wait. Chances are you'll be able to avoid the whole confrontation/meeting altogether.

 

On a sidenote, I admire your family. It's extremely tough to stand up for what is right and break off contact with your daughter. Someday when you wake up from this nightmare I hope you thank them for being so supportive that they refused to watch or participate in you ruining your life chasing a married man. You deserve better than some other woman's cheating husband.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

I cant help but think that the reason the kids finally came around after not speaking with their father for 3 months is because they believed op was out of the picture.

 

Still more lies. When does it stop?

 

On a side note...my sister had an affair and left her husband for the OM. I refused to meet him for the next 12months after that. And apart from the lies she told me and the way she used me to cover up the affair, she didnt actually betray me. per say...Time.

Edited December 9, 2013 by ThatsJustHowIRoll

[cocorico]

 

Do you agree that it's best to wait? Do any of you have similar experiences?

 

My H's kids were older teens when he left the BW, so perhaps closer to the experience of your BF's son than his daughter. The difference was the custody agreement - his kids were old enough to choose, and requested that the courts agree to joint custody with the proviso that the kids decide where they would like to stay, which was agreed. De facto, though, the kids chose to stay with him. After 6 months, I moved in with them. They had been consulted on this and had agreed, and I think that is the important part - kids of that age like to be treated as having some control over their lives. They like to be included in decisions which affect them, and they like to know they are heard.

 

I'd agree that your BF should chat with them, tell them he is seeing someone, let them ask him about you, and let them choose when to meet you. That worked well in my situation, and it don't see why it would not work in yours. Good luck

[threelaurels]

My H's kids were older teens when he left the BW, so perhaps closer to the experience of your BF's son than his daughter. The difference was the custody agreement - his kids were old enough to choose, and requested that the courts agree to joint custody with the proviso that the kids decide where they would like to stay, which was agreed. De facto, though, the kids chose to stay with him. After 6 months, I moved in with them. They had been consulted on this and had agreed, and I think that is the important part - kids of that age like to be treated as having some control over their lives. They like to be included in decisions which affect them, and they like to know they are heard.

 

I'd agree that your BF should chat with them, tell them he is seeing someone, let them ask him about you, and let them choose when to meet you. That worked well in my situation, and it don't see why it would not work in yours. Good luck

 

I have heard that a major issue kids have with their parents' new partners after a D is that they rarely get alone time with the parent without the partner being around.

 

In my own experience, I have had issues with my mom's boyfriend always being around, but I'm an adult, out of the house, and I live several hours away. I hardly get time to see her as it is, so the time I do get with her is important. My experience may be different though because my dad passed away when I was in college and, when I come home for holidays and such, I feel uncomfortable talking about my memories of him in front of the boyfriend. Though I did not like him initially (he has an abrasive personality), I have warmed up to him somewhat. My mom and him are serious, and I accept him because he makes her happy. He will probably be my stepfather some day. He proposed to my mom, but she didn't accept because she's not ready to get remarried again. They did move in together earlier this year though. I'm really just talking about my experiences here to share a little bit about what it is like for older children when their parents move on.

 

With you having gone through this, I was hoping you could comment on the balance between getting to know the kids yourself and giving them alone time with their father. At 16, the oldest will be out of the house soon and in college, so making the time he does spend with his father meaningful is important. It is important for the youngest as well.

 

Can you share any insight on this balance? I think it would be helpful for OP when she does meet the kids. Did you have any transitional issues with them adjusting to the situation?