Am I so unreasonable? Did I do wrong? How can I fix it?

[clusterlooney]

Sorry - long post here......

 

Had a one-night stand in Milan. We both did not live there, went our separate ways after a nice few days together but swapped email addresses. She emails me when I get back home (to the US) saying she really loved our time together, that she'd love to meet me again (she's in Europe), and would come out to the US (or meet elsewhere). I had a great time as well, so I agreed, a little wary in terms of committing: she agreed it was just to see if there's something between us.

 

Our contact started off fairly slowly (with no guarantee we'd ever meet again) but we got to know each other better, communicating more and more as our rendezvous date got closer.

 

Just after I arrived back, I ended up in bed with another girl I had been seeing from before I left. I'd decided to stop seeing her, but was drunk... In the end, I didn't actually sleep with her (she was upset about the girl I'd met in Milan), but probably would have. I stopped seeing her after. A little after that, out with a friend, I was drunk (again) and kissed a girl I'd spent some time with that night. We didn't go home together.

 

From around that point on, as our email conversations started getting more in-depth, I stopped being so interested in other girls, but had not made any commitments or promises of a relationship by this stage.

 

Our meet-up comes and goes: it was incredible, we had a wonderful time and decided after that we should be in a relationship. We have been ever since, and are engaged to be married. Before proposing, I wanted to tell her about what happened between coming back home and us meeting up again. I felt awkward about it, and I wanted to be clear about us, with nothing "in the way" so I could be completely honest about "us". While telling her, I emphasised that we were not together at this stage, nor had we made any promises of commitment or exclusivity.

 

Nevertheless, she did, and continues (6 months down the line) to not take it well. She's tried, at points, to make an analogy: "well, if I were to cheat on you...". I get extremely irritated that she suggests I did (I think she accepts this now). However, she finds what I did unacceptable, even saying she would not have agreed to meet had she known. Despite apologising, wishing events hadn't happened, and reassuring her I have never cheated (I haven't), she still brings this up, it still upsets her, and (as a result) she still has a go at me. I feel (NB: my opinion) she is quite an insecure and jealous person, and has real issues with my past experience with girls.

 

She has spoken to her friends about this, who said "wtf?", suggesting my actions are reprehensible. This of course validates her sense of betrayal and upset. Am I being unreasonable? Were my actions so bad? I've tried my best to placate and make it better, but it is something that she will bring up, often in arguments. I'm fed up with feeling guilty, I'm fed up with my past being used as weapon irrespective of the regret and remorse I express. Anyone?

[Balzac]

She's no longer in Europe? You ate engaged and actively planning your wedding?

[clusterlooney]

Hi Balzac,

 

She now lives with me - we're engaged, and the planning is a liiitle slow (we need to wait for a little while, money, career plans), but both very committed to spending our lives together.

[Balzac]

Congratulations!

 

This issue can be resolved but I'd encourage couples counseling to focus only on the issue. It's troubling that she so casually tosses out "cheating" because it's a threat to your future marriage. It's her problem really but it's affecting you too.

Presuming you have access to treatment but if expense is a concern / counseling can be low cost.

 

This is a serious problem. It's unwise to marry before you two can put this to rest. Seriai, circular arguments are destructive. She's the one who needs to resolve her thoughts and feelings. Then the issue needs to not be brought up again.

[Balzac]

I failed to offer my answers to your primary questions.

 

You did nothing wrong in the area of dating.

 

The folks on LS will differ on how revealing you were! One can laud your honesty in following your conscience. One might tell you that the past / prior to relationship exclusivity w her is not her's to know.

 

You cannot "fix" this. She can. You can support her. You can reassure her but eventually these efforts become tiresome. Of she cannot resolve her issues / what becomes of her insecurity during a pregnancy? Heavy with your child, feeling vulnerable but unable to let go of this is not a situation you want.

 

I hope that makes sense to you

[SincereOnlineGuy]

This isn't about your having slept with somebody else, etc.

 

 

This is about your having violated this Milan woman's "Right NOT to know".

 

It was your 'choice' to violate that, seeing as how it would be very unlikely that a woman living in Europe would have randomly learned of your dalliance otherwise.

 

 

 

Consider the following:

 

... from a very popular sex-advice columnist who has been plying his trade for 20+ years, and who writes his columns on Ann Landers' desk

 

 

Slam Bam

 

December 4, 2013

 

By Dan Savage

 

 

 

I'm a bi woman in my mid-20s in a great monogamish relationship with my straight boyfriend. We occasionally invite other women into our sex life, which is really enjoyable for both of us. He isn't threatened by other women, only by other men, which isn't an issue since I'm not interested in any other men. So on the occasions when we find a lady we're both into who's also into us, anything goes, and it's awesome. We've hooked up with both friends and strangers, but always as a couple because it makes us both feel safe. That's all lovely. Enter the problem: I was visiting some friends of ours I used to live with before my boyfriend and I moved in together. After going out for drinks, we were playing an alcohol-fueled card game that turned into an alcohol-fueled strip card game. This is in my former home where I am very comfortable, feel safe, and was frequently in various states of undress while I was a housemate. One friend soon had her lovely breasts out, and she made a few comments that were direct and inviting and turned me on a little. I touched her boobs and sucked on her nipples, but that's as far as things went. Her boyfriend witnessed this but wasn't involved. It was a fun, playful moment, and soon after, I went to bed—alone. It wasn't anything my boyfriend would've objected to had he been there, but he wasn't there. Should I tell him about it, or is this a case where he has the right not to know? I'm not interested in pursuing anything further with this friend, and I'm not sure what talking about it would accomplish, other than being honest at the expense of my boyfriend's feelings, and probably making me feel bad for something that, although it seemed innocent and harmless in the moment, I shouldn't have done.

 

Non-Intentional Playful Partying Lady Experiences Situation

 

 

 

 

 

This experience would seem to fall in the "right not to know" column, NIPPLES, but "right not to know" always has to be weighed against "likelihood of finding out."

 

You indicate that this couple—the girl with the lovely, direct, and inviting breasts (LDIBs), and the boy who witnessed the touching and sucking of said LDIBs—aren't just friends of yours, NIPPLES, but friends of "ours." If either of them makes a reference to this game of strip cribbage—or strip Uno or strip poker or strip Schnapsen—the next time the four of you hang out, the boyfriend could be blindsided. And it's not clear whether there were other witnesses to your drunken touch-and-suck. But if there were others there, and if you socialize with these other witnesses IRL or online, the chances that your boyfriend will find out increase exponentially.

 

You know your boyfriend better than I do, NIPPLES, so you'll have to ask yourself if finding out about the incident at a party or via a snarky Facebook post would leave him feeling twice as upset—because then we're talking about a crime and a cover-up, and learning about the LDIBs incident in a manner (from a friend, in front of other people) that leaves him feeling humiliated.

[clusterlooney]

Hi Balzac,

 

Thank you so much for your words - I very much appreciate them. I should emphasise that she doesn't per-se accuse me of cheating (although it makes me feel I did) - merely, to illustrate her perspective, she offers an analogy along the lines of "if I cheated on you", so it is somewhat laden with implication. Having said that, it does make me feel awful, the way she brings this up, and in fact the jealous insecure extension of her personality. As an example, we were in the living room yesterday, and I wanted to cuddle on the sofa. She was coming over, and my cell rang on the table. She saw the female name as she was bringing it over. It was a colleague who was doing me a big favour arranging to drop some work materials I needed out of office hours. She gave me the phone and was then extremely distant, cold and short with me. After the call, I confronted her (I confess, somewhat exasperated at the rapid change in mood), and she said something along the lines of "well, I don't know who she is - I don't know who it is you slept with before". It hurt a lot, and made me feel under suspicion. As I said, I've never cheated, nor would I. I've never given her any reason to think I would, am constantly pouring praise on her, and how much I adore her, am attracted to her.

 

In honesty, we are going through some challenges at the moment (though this particular theme is recurring), which I will perhaps elaborate on in separate posts, but I want to speak to someone "outside" of the situation, because I know that I can become clouded and subjective when I'm very much deep in dispute with her. It is difficult to become detached from the dispute, especially when I feel so much of it is irrational and completely at odds with how I treat her.

 

One issue is her reluctance to seek (professional) help and support. This is an issue with her past, but it is something she will not budge on. This worries me a lot, as I feel that there are some issues that we cannot just work out on our own, especially if they are deep-running, and we lack the expertise to confront them on our own. I want to support her, and want to give us the best possible start in life. If that means letting someone in who can guide us through a little, then it is worth the investment (in time.... in money, I hope we can find something affordable!)

 

Balzak, you've ventured opinion regarding the "area of dating" - thank you very much. I think that is what I'm really keen to understand (the core point of this post): if people feel I didn't "play fair" with her, or treated her with disrespect, or did something that was outside the norms in terms of my behaviour prior to meeting her. The "pre" part of our relationship was certainly unconventional. But at the time, I didn't know how things would go with her should we meet again, nor indeed if we would meet again. Nor were we making any promises to each other, and setting things in concrete: we were meeting to see if there was a "spark", and if there was anything that can develop into something more serious.

[clusterlooney]

This isn't about your having slept with somebody else, etc.

 

 

This is about your having violated this Milan woman's "Right NOT to know".

 

It was your 'choice' to violate that, seeing as how it would be very unlikely that a woman living in Europe would have randomly learned of your dalliance otherwise.

 

Hi Sincere,

 

Thanks for that perspective - it's certainly a different angle. I can see how the story applies (though with a few differences: I was not in a relationship with Milan at that stage). I think in some sense I was a little selfish in that I didn't want the moral ambiguity hanging over my head. I'm afraid it's something in my personality where it would continue to gnaw and eat at me progressively with time: I would start to think that what we have as a relationship was built on false pretences and a lie. I want to marry this girl - I don't want to live with that.

 

To that end, I also wanted to be completely honest with her regarding my history as well - no secrets, no lies - in short, to "give myself" completely to her. It didn't scare her away, but often she seems to make comments about my past experience with women in an offhand way that I don't particularly appreciate.

 

That said, it might have been better she never knew about the time between Milan and meeting her again. Perhaps I made a rod for my own back. I don't know. I'm certainly paying for my "indiscretions" now, that's for sure. Indeed, without telling her, it was highly unlikely should would ever find out. Does that make it right for her not to know?

[SincereOnlineGuy]

The truth is, that you (put yourself first) in informing her of all this, in order to dodge (whatever could-be guilt you might muster, even though you weren't committed to her, at the time of the other dalliances).

 

Beyond that, it simply wasn't any of her concern or business until you gave her no alternative but to make it her concern or business.

 

 

Though of course one now wonders whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy you felt so guilty that you let yourself believe that she should know?

[clusterlooney]

True, certainly didn't want to feel guilty. I also wanted to be honest with her, and to not have any secrets or "skeletons in the closet". Given how serious I am about her I felt it was important to me we build our relationship on honesty, trust and openness

 

I felt guilty because I was still involved (in some limited degree) with other women while we were making plans to meet up again. In the early stages of our correspondence, there was agreement that we were just finding out if what we had together extended beyond those few days we met, and that we were not making any pledges or commitment.

 

Nevertheless, I felt there was some degree of ambiguity as to whether what I did was "proper", so I would rather she knew. The issue now is that she seems to treat it as a "taint" on our relationship (or the start of it), whilst I consider it as something before we became a couple, before we became exclusive, and before we even met again.

 

Any thoughts?

[clusterlooney]

Anyone else have thoughts before this thread sinks?