RedRobin Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 If someone told you he/she preferred to go slow and needed an emotional connection before being physically intimate (ie sex), what would that mean to you? I'm doing a bit of processing over the last two guys I dated. In both cases, I dated them without sex for about two months. In both cases, they claimed to want or need an emotional connection and claimed to want a relationship with me. In both cases, I wasn't sold on their declarations. One of them had a recent FWB, and I felt was trying to push me towards that style. I've stayed in some contact with this one because we are both in the same running group. The more I learn about him, the more I see my original assessment was correct. The other had tacky friends and poor mouth control that showed me that certainly wasn't his history... despite what he claimed he was looking for. So, let's say I come across another guy who claims that... I'm curious to know from a guy's point of view what that looks like. For the guys who have that 'style', how soon do you have sex? What is your relationship history like? Have you ever had a FWB, and if so, would you again? These are things I'd like to find a way to sort out so I don't have to waste 2-3 months or more dating the next one to figure this out.
Iguanna Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 On the first date make up a story about an imaginary friend of yours who won't have sex with a guy she dates unless she feels emotionally connected to him (without you showing if you agree or not) and see how he reacts. (I use this method A LOT, it's the best way to really know what someone thinks of a matter that concerns you). 1
Copelandsanity Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Preferring to go slow before having sex and wanting/having a FWB are not mutually exclusive. Some guys cannot perform unless they've spent some time with a girl and become more familiar and comfortable with her. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's looking for a LTR or is relationship-minded at all. 1
Author RedRobin Posted December 8, 2013 Author Posted December 8, 2013 On the first date make up a story about an imaginary friend of yours who won't have sex with a guy she dates unless she feels emotionally connected to him (without you showing if you agree or not) and see how he reacts. (I use this method A LOT, it's the best way to really know what someone thinks of a matter that concerns you). Yes... that might be good. Perhaps I should be telling them about my 'friend' who needs to have sex with someone before an emotional connection, and see what they say. If they empathize with the 'friend', then I know I've probably got one of those on my hands. The tire kickers, that is. Might also be good to talk about my co-worker or acquaintance with the FWB (since none of my friends IRL have or do). Play dumb, and see what they say about those too. 1
Author RedRobin Posted December 8, 2013 Author Posted December 8, 2013 Preferring to go slow before having sex and wanting/having a FWB are not mutually exclusive. Some guys cannot perform unless they've spent some time with a girl and become more familiar and comfortable with her. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's looking for a LTR or is relationship-minded at all. Interesting! Could you explain more? It just seems so odd that someone could want an emotional connection with someone and then NOT want a LTR or a relationship. The first guy in my story seemed to be like this. In spite of him claiming to want a relationship with me and was very firm on the idea that he wasn't looking for a FWB, he demonstrated that, indeed, that was more his style. One thought I had was that they need to confirm the other person is monogamous in advance... whether or not he (in this case) is monogamous or not doesn't concern him. It's more about making sure the other person is locked down emotionally so he gets his love 'fix'... but without actually having to commit. That is definitely the profile of the first guy. The second guy... he's just a tire-kicker. He can't even claim to have a relationship lasting more than a year in the past 11 years since he's been divorced. That was another clue.
StanMusial Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 If it takes 2 - 3 months to figure out, then that's how long it takes. It's not wasted time. You are obviously meeting/mingling with shady characters and it's affecting your outlook.
Keenly Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Yes... that might be good. Perhaps I should be telling them about my 'friend' who needs to have sex with someone before an emotional connection, and see what they say. If they empathize with the 'friend', then I know I've probably got one of those on my hands. The tire kickers, that is. Might also be good to talk about my co-worker or acquaintance with the FWB (since none of my friends IRL have or do). Play dumb, and see what they say about those too. No. No trap questions. No setting him up for failure. That's manipulative behavior. I need the personsl connection. Takes me about 2 months or 7 to 10 dates to develop the feelings. Various factors come I to play like frequency of dates, frequency of communication, etc. 3
Author RedRobin Posted December 8, 2013 Author Posted December 8, 2013 If it takes 2 - 3 months to figure out, then that's how long it takes. It's not wasted time. You are obviously meeting/mingling with shady characters and it's affecting your outlook. ugh... I suppose 2-3 months is better than 2-3 years (!!) ...and about the shady characters... Attributed to the area I live in. Really horrible dating pool. Men in my demographic are either married or have some kind of criminal record, substance abuse, or violence issue. The rest are dating women 10-15+ years younger than them (oh, and not committing to them either). I assume the younger women have similar issues finding decent men around here to date too if they are settling for that. I haven't gotten to that point... where I'd settle for someone that much older than me or try to steal some other woman's husband... although I've witnessed a couple of women who have pulled that off. *shrug*
Ninjainpajamas Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 If someone told you he/she preferred to go slow and needed an emotional connection before being physically intimate (ie sex), what would that mean to you? So, let's say I come across another guy who claims that... I'm curious to know from a guy's point of view what that looks like. For the guys who have that 'style', how soon do you have sex? What is your relationship history like? Have you ever had a FWB, and if so, would you again? These are things I'd like to find a way to sort out so I don't have to waste 2-3 months or more dating the next one to figure this out. Personally don't have a reaction to the first question, to be honest and frank I probably know how to build an emotional connection better than most women. Your sex alone is not necessarily that valuable to me, I'm not a dog looking for a bone. I definitely wouldn't date a woman for several months just because I'm working towards it, If I feel like being present then that's because I'm getting something out of it already and time would pass by quickly, however I wouldn't force myself to jump through fiery hoops for someone like I've got something to prove or goes as far as try to convince someone to be intimate with me or something ridiculous like that. As always, you should never listen to what men say...it really doesn't matter what they say, what they say is just here-say and likely influenced by what they think you would want to hear or in that moment anyway...plus most people seem to regard themselves favorably in spite of their actions...they have a special looking lens when it comes to how they view themselves. Their actions never indicate what another person is doing even if it's the same exact thing, it's always different in their eyes mostly because of the bias...same goes for women...everyone is "special". Won't answer the next questions personally, but you've got to be a good judge of character and go with your intuition to filter out the BSer's if you actually want to catch a man who means what he says or actually does what he does without having to sell you anything in the first place. Good luck trying to get men to spill the beans though not that it's any different with women...not like there isn't any skeletons in their closet either. 1
Woggle Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 If they have FWB then next them. It means he splits women into two groups. If he truly sincerely believes in having emotions with sex in general then go for it if that is what you want.
carhill Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 If someone told you he/she preferred to go slow and needed an emotional connection before being physically intimate (ie sex), what would that mean to you? It was never specifically spoken but that has been the theme of my past LTR's and marriage. To me, it would mean 'normal' and 'desirable'.
Author RedRobin Posted December 8, 2013 Author Posted December 8, 2013 Your sex alone is not necessarily that valuable to me, I'm not a dog looking for a bone. I definitely wouldn't date a woman for several months just because I'm working towards it, If I feel like being present then that's because I'm getting something out of it already and time would pass by quickly, however I wouldn't force myself to jump through fiery hoops for someone like I've got something to prove or goes as far as try to convince someone to be intimate with me or something ridiculous like that. As always, you should never listen to what men say...it really doesn't matter what they say, what they say is just here-say and likely influenced by what they think you would want to hear or in that moment anyway...plus most people seem to regard themselves favorably in spite of their actions...they have a special looking lens when it comes to how they view themselves. Their actions never indicate what another person is doing even if it's the same exact thing, it's always different in their eyes mostly because of the bias...same goes for women...everyone is "special". Won't answer the next questions personally, but you've got to be a good judge of character and go with your intuition to filter out the BSer's if you actually want to catch a man who means what he says or actually does what he does without having to sell you anything in the first place. Good luck trying to get men to spill the beans though not that it's any different with women...not like there isn't any skeletons in their closet either. Yes, I understand that. It's not carrot dangling as much as it might sound. Sex isn't a 'reward', and I've never treated it as such. But I have gotten a bad taste in my mouth from men who seem to look or treat me as a curiosity or a device... rather than a human being. That was the undoing of Mr. Shave 'n Wax. I'm pretty wise to the ones who can develop that pseudo-intimacy right off the bat. That has it's own flavor too. Hard to fake legitimate care for someone. If they have FWB then next them. It means he splits women into two groups. If he truly sincerely believes in having emotions with sex in general then go for it if that is what you want. That is my sense too... that there are women for effing and fun... and other women for relationships. I never could get over that with the first one. It was never specifically spoken but that has been the theme of my past LTR's and marriage. To me, it would mean 'normal' and 'desirable'. I know, right? Hard to believe that I even have to ask this question. Was pondering this with a friend over coffee the other day. Before I was married, when you dated someone it was a given they weren't dating others... and definitely not after you slept with them. There was no 'exclusivity' talk. It just WAS. Flash forward to after my divorce and I still haven't wrapped my brain around how things are these days. I mean, if you like them, enjoy their company, and enjoy sex with them... why not be in a relationship? I just don't get it. Well, I get it that the dating pool is much better for guys here than gals. You and I are living in a parallel universe, haha
MissBee Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 If someone told you he/she preferred to go slow and needed an emotional connection before being physically intimate (ie sex), what would that mean to you? I'm doing a bit of processing over the last two guys I dated. In both cases, I dated them without sex for about two months. In both cases, they claimed to want or need an emotional connection and claimed to want a relationship with me. In both cases, I wasn't sold on their declarations. One of them had a recent FWB, and I felt was trying to push me towards that style. I've stayed in some contact with this one because we are both in the same running group. The more I learn about him, the more I see my original assessment was correct. The other had tacky friends and poor mouth control that showed me that certainly wasn't his history... despite what he claimed he was looking for. So, let's say I come across another guy who claims that... I'm curious to know from a guy's point of view what that looks like. For the guys who have that 'style', how soon do you have sex? What is your relationship history like? Have you ever had a FWB, and if so, would you again? These are things I'd like to find a way to sort out so I don't have to waste 2-3 months or more dating the next one to figure this out. Are you saying that these men tell you this after you inform them that you want to wait for sex or are they the ones who bring it up before you do and make you wait? If it is the former case, I wouldn't automatically buy it, as some men will simply mirror what you've said and pretend. I think they are easy to spot though and how they talk about what they want, sex, what they're looking for and their most recent relationships will clue you in on where they actually stand. If these men say this and are making no moves to have sex and are in fact getting to know you outside of the physical I would tend to believe them more.
MissBee Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 Preferring to go slow before having sex and wanting/having a FWB are not mutually exclusive. Some guys cannot perform unless they've spent some time with a girl and become more familiar and comfortable with her. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's looking for a LTR or is relationship-minded at all. This is also true. A man may be able to wait for sex but still not be interested in something long term, or he may have sex with other women while waiting for you, because he also wants to sleep with you too.
carhill Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 I know, right? Hard to believe that I even have to ask this question. Was pondering this with a friend over coffee the other day. Before I was married, when you dated someone it was a given they weren't dating others... and definitely not after you slept with them. There was no 'exclusivity' talk. It just WAS. It probably varies by demographic. Most of the women I dated, including my exW, were dating other men whilst we were dating (they were pretty open about it) and generally had no qualms about having sexual relationships (today that might be called FWB) with other men while dating, including myself. Hence, I often 'lost out' to those dynamics as we hadn't built sufficient emotional intimacy or exclusivity for me to feel sexually safe. Back then, there was also the AIDS scare, so STD's were of concern. I did have to 'shorten' my intimacy period simply because I wasn't getting anywhere, over years of dating. Flash forward to after my divorce and I still haven't wrapped my brain around how things are these days. I mean, if you like them, enjoy their company, and enjoy sex with them... why not be in a relationship? I just don't get it. Perhaps it's the instant information and communication age, along with people's expectations morphing to match the 'instant' nature of modern society, IDK. Well, I get it that the dating pool is much better for guys here than gals. You and I are living in a parallel universe, haha Again, it's likely demographics. I had to range far and wide for my relationships, into demographics where I could find demonstrably single women. Even then it was tough due to all the multi-dating that was going on. Back in the era when online dating was new, 15-20 years ago, it was like people had a new toy and were loving it. It sounds like you're experiencing the same dynamic, genders reversed, where you are. Myself, I've done some demographic and business studies and will be moving to a more advantageous demographic as soon as financially feasible. I enjoy being part of the community, both in business and personally, and wouldn't mind being married again in life. Just not around here. Good luck in your dating pursuits. I know it's not easy. 1
2fargone Posted December 8, 2013 Posted December 8, 2013 I wouldn't say it's an emotional connection I need. It's alot of things, but my mind works at lightning speed. I need a spark, a sense of a future with someone. Mind you this can all happen on a first date, including the sex. Then again I don't really chitchat. It might come across as that, but I can learn alot about someone in a few hours. I don't postpone sex. That would mean the spark isn't there. And I want to be fullfilled at all levels, so I need to know if we're sexually compatible too. I don't waste 2-3 months on that. If someone needs that amount of time, she's not into me enough.
Author RedRobin Posted December 9, 2013 Author Posted December 9, 2013 I wouldn't say it's an emotional connection I need. It's alot of things, but my mind works at lightning speed. I need a spark, a sense of a future with someone. Mind you this can all happen on a first date, including the sex. Then again I don't really chitchat. It might come across as that, but I can learn alot about someone in a few hours. I don't postpone sex. That would mean the spark isn't there. And I want to be fullfilled at all levels, so I need to know if we're sexually compatible too. I don't waste 2-3 months on that. If someone needs that amount of time, she's not into me enough. The question was aimed at those who claim to need an emotional connection before sex. I'm well acquainted with the psychology of those who don't... or those who get swept away with pseudo-intimacy. Too much drama and 'ick' for me when I learn what they are really about once I dig a little deeper. Sorry... I don't like icky surprises.
Woggle Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 RR I know the world you have seen after your divorce must seem like a shock to the system and in many ways I myself wish it wasn't like this but it's not changing anytime soon. The best thing is to accept it and adapt to it. It's sad but that's reality.
Author RedRobin Posted December 9, 2013 Author Posted December 9, 2013 Speaking of icky surprises... Just this week, I decided to add Mr. Ryan as one of my FB friends. Figured enough time had past and maybe we could be friendly. He's trained for a lot of marathons and his advice has been helpful. I always had this nagging feeling he wasn't being totally honest with me. Especially the part about him wanting a relationship with me and that he wasn't seeing other people. He talked adnauseum about his 'past' FWB and a women he was head over heels in love with in the past. He never mentioned this other woman... the one who popped up in his pictures over the course of a couple of years... holding hands, etc. It appears that she thinks she's in a relationship with him. Maybe she's agreed to be his FWB. Not sure. However, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that he was seeing her while pursuing me. So I was right. Sucks to be right. *shrug* Anyway, doesn't matter. It's a useful data point. Not dating anymore men who have or had FWB. I'll find someone else to help with my running training... I don't stay friends with liars.
Author RedRobin Posted December 9, 2013 Author Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) RR I know the world you have seen after your divorce must seem like a shock to the system and in many ways I myself wish it wasn't like this but it's not changing anytime soon. The best thing is to accept it and adapt to it. It's sad but that's reality. Adapt? How? What am I supposed to adapt to? Sleeping with a million people? Accept being treated as a f-buddy? What am I supposed to adapt to? I mean, the only other alternative for me is just to have ONS. I'm not doing the FWB thing and calling it a 'relationship'... nor am I investing in men who want to suck me dry emotionally... or expect ME to be monogamous while THEY mess around. Nope. Edited December 9, 2013 by RedRobin 1
carhill Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Ha, ha, suck me dry emotionally.... I came up with the word 'Hoover' to describe my experiences in my demographic. The undisclosed MW's were the worst of it. You hit on an important aspect of parity in establishing emotional rapport prior to sex; it must be mutual. I ran into a lot of women letting me love them. Man, that was debilitating. It sounds a lot like what you're getting at with your 'suck me dry emotionally' remark. I guess time reveals all truths, as you noted with your FB marathon friend. After enough iterations, TBH, very little phases me anymore. Smile and move on. 1
gabgab Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I think that line is horsecrap. I know very few men who need an emotional connection to have sex. Some need familiarity but not a connection. Guys say that in hopes that you'll trust them and hop into bed with them. Men fall in love with their eyes, women fall in love through their ears. Men manipulate that to their advantage.
Author RedRobin Posted December 9, 2013 Author Posted December 9, 2013 Ha, ha, suck me dry emotionally.... I came up with the word 'Hoover' to describe my experiences in my demographic. The undisclosed MW's were the worst of it. You hit on an important aspect of parity in establishing emotional rapport prior to sex; it must be mutual. I ran into a lot of women letting me love them. Man, that was debilitating. It sounds a lot like what you're getting at with your 'suck me dry emotionally' remark. I guess time reveals all truths, as you noted with your FB marathon friend. After enough iterations, TBH, very little phases me anymore. Smile and move on. I don't regret trying to care about someone. 2-3 months is my limit... usually much less... as everyone likes to point out to me. Yes, there are a lot of broken people around here.... sounds like you have the same there. I believe it is time I stopped trying to date anyone here. I keep talking about it being a cesspool... and it is. All it is doing is making me bitter and fearful. About the bolded... Yes, that is what I'm doing.... Thank you or trying to do anyway.
Woggle Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Adapt? How? What am I supposed to adapt to? Sleeping with a million people? Accept being treated as a f-buddy? What am I supposed to adapt to? I mean, the only other alternative for me is just to have ONS. I'm not doing the FWB thing and calling it a 'relationship'... nor am I investing in men who want to suck me dry emotionally... or expect ME to be monogamous while THEY mess around. Nope. Just live your life and enjoy yourself and hope to find one of the exceptions. Never change what you want in your life but stop getting mad over a world you can't change. Things are not going back to the way they were and we need to accept that.
Emilia Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 plus most people seem to regard themselves favorably in spite of their actions...they have a special looking lens when it comes to how they view themselves. Their actions never indicate what another person is doing even if it's the same exact thing, it's always different in their eyes mostly because of the bias...same goes for women...everyone is "special". This ^^^ you've got to be a good judge of character and go with your intuition to filter out the BSer's if you actually want to catch a man who means what he says or actually does what he does without having to sell you anything in the first place. Good luck trying to get men to spill the beans though not that it's any different with women...not like there isn't any skeletons in their closet either. and this ^^^ No-one owes you rainbows and butterflies OP. It takes 2-3 months to work someone out and there will be more duff than good ones. Time to toughen up and not be so easily offended.
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