Let's focus the attention back on me...

[Mr Spock]

There has been quite a bit of activity on OW threads in the past few days. Perhaps because it's the holiday seasons and dysfunction in relationships is outlined more clearly for both parties to see. I think we all would benefit by taking a stance in our personal relationships-making a decision, either way of what we WANT and what we'll do if we don't get it.

[Pocky]

Yes, fine, true, absolutely correct, right on, I am NOW considering the W!!!

 

No you're not. You're convincing yourself that you are, but you truly aren't. For some reason in your brain you think that this is something she needs to know. You've decided that telling her is the best thing for her. That giving her all the dirty details about her lying husband is really going to benefit her in the long run. Shall I remind you, you don't know her? You don't know how she feels about anything. You don't know what type of person she is. You don't have any idea how this information will or won't affect her. You've just decided that since YOU think it's what YOU should do and YOU think it's the right thing to do then it must be the right thing to do.

 

If the moment I found out about MM being married I had run to W to tell her what he was up to (as in, he was SERIOUSLY COURTING ME, promising me things, etc., trying to get me into the sack, and I had NO CLUE he was married), would it THEN be okay to tell her?

 

Nope.

 

Is it only because I was "not" thinking about her THEN (when I continued anyways, knowing what I knew) that makes it improper for me to tell her NOW? Is it only that mistake I made, back then, that prevents her from knowing the truth? So are all mistakes bound to hurt indefinately? When can the healing begin?

 

Which person are we talking about here? You or her? From my understanding she doesn't know so how is she hurting? I think you're the only one that's hurting. And I think you're the only one that needs to heal. If she doesn't know about it like you suspect then why would she need to heal? As far as she's concerned she may very well have a happy marriage. And now that you've decided you need to set the record straight so that everyone can move on and heal from the pain you want to let her in on the dirty little secret you've shared with her husband and cause her world to come crashing down.

 

Maybe for you, that's a good thing. Maybe for you, the need to know is something that overrides everything else, but how do you know that it's a good thing for her? Maybe she's suspected all along but decided that because she is happy and can find her happiness with the way life is she will ignore it. Maybe she loves him so much she'd rather let him do his thing than ever live life without him. The thing about it, is you don't know!

 

What you will do by telling her is cause her pain and humiliation. You will force to her respond to something she either had no idea existed or ignored for whatever reasons. You will force her to make decisions that she may not want to have been forced to make and you will force her to accept what she may or may not have wanted to accept.

 

What you will be doing is firmly planting your place in this man's life by making people recognize that you do exist who shouldn't even know you do.

 

Go away, KMT. Disappear like you should and leave this family alone to work out what they need to work out. You do not belong there. And no, you do not get to validate your own pain and suffering by forcing others to see it.

[murasaki]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

 

If the moment I found out about MM being married I had run to W to tell her what he was up to (as in, he was SERIOUSLY COURTING ME, promising me things, etc., trying to get me into the sack, and I had NO CLUE he was married), would it THEN be okay to tell her?

 

Yes, it would be much, much more acceptable & ethical than to tell her only when you're done with the affair (or trying to be done with the affair). Alerting her to the fact that her husband is a would-be philanderer is worlds apart from letting her know that you aided and abetted him in his adultery. Moreover, although I know you won't admit this KMT, the motives are entirely different.

 

Is it only because I was "not" thinking about her THEN (when I continued anyways, knowing what I knew) that makes it improper for me to tell her NOW? Is it only that mistake I made, back then, that prevents her from knowing the truth? So are all mistakes bound to hurt indefinately? When can the healing begin?

 

The healing begins when you forgive yourself. You have no right to ever expect any sympathy or forgiveness from your lover's wife. Sorry, it's highly unlikely that you'll ever get it. If you're looking for understanding & forgiveness, figure out what drew you into a relationship that was hurtful to you, and that caused you to directly participate in a man's betrayal of his wife. Just like those of us who have gone through painful break-ups with people who turned out to not be what we thought they were need to find the answers within ourselves -- why were we deluded, why did we stay as long as we did, etc.

 

You don't need to accept wholesale and unending condemnation. You can look at what you did, recognize it was a mistake that had repercussions that went beyond your own life, and know that you won't make a similar mistake going forward. You know your context better than anyone, you know the things that made you vulnerable to what the MM was offering, you are in a position to view your mistake compassionately -- and you should. But I think it's utter insanity to think that a betrayed spouse is going to be the one to make you feel better for participating in an affair!

 

There's no way that something like this can be resolved with all parties agreeing on one verison of the truth. The betrayed spouse, if he/she learns of the affair, will always hold the OM/OW partly responsible, and will resent them and probably on some level wish them ill. C'est la vie. If you're not in their life at all anyway, what does it matter? You know you're not a black-hearted, awful person. You know you got into something you didn't anticipate would become so difficult. That's what matters.

[KissMyTiara]

DUDE, Murasaki, you're twisting things. My first comment was in response to someone else's suggestion about just showing up on the doorstep. You can't really read tone into what I meant..."contemplated" to me was meant more as "fantasized." I only WISH I had the ovaries to show up on his doorstep with his gift to give it back to him during dinner time.

 

The latter comment came from me just wanting to give it back to him, period. Doesn't require it to be on his doorstep, at a bar, or when we have lunch together. Whenever.

 

You don't even know when the last time I slept with him was, so how dare you insinuate that I don't care about continuously exposing her! He and I had slept together probably 50 times before I found out about the HPV, so she's already been exposed!

 

Jeez, ok, I'm done. What's the point in going 'round and 'round about my intentions in all of this? I know in my heart what my intentions are with regards to both the relationship and the W. I KNOW, you don't. I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise anymore.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by murasaki

You have no right to ever expect any sympathy or forgiveness from your lover's wife. Sorry, it's highly unlikely that you'll ever get it. If you're looking for understanding & forgiveness, figure out what drew you into a relationship that was hurtful to you, and that caused you to directly participate in a man's betrayal of his wife. Just like those of us who have gone through painful break-ups with people who turned out to not be what we thought they were need to find the answers within ourselves -- why were we deluded, why did we stay as long as we did, etc.

 

You don't need to accept wholesale and unending condemnation.

 

When the HE** did I say I wanted forgiveness from anyone?

And I sure as HE** am not about to accept condemnation from ANYONE.

 

 

Originally posted by Soon2bsngl

If you really cared about his wife's feelings you would have walked away from the relationship when you first found out he was married.

 

If this is true, then every single betrayed spouse out there should look into the eyes of their wayward spouse and know that the latter never cared about his/her feelings. Do you really think that's true? Do you think that just because I was thinking of myself that I don't give a rat's a** at all?

 

Done.

[murasaki]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

When the HE** did I say I wanted forgiveness from anyone?

And I sure as HE** am not about to accept condemnation from ANYONE.

 

Oh, sorry, did I misread you again? You said:

 

Is it only because I was "not" thinking about her THEN (when I continued anyways, knowing what I knew) that makes it improper for me to tell her NOW? Is it only that mistake I made, back then, that prevents her from knowing the truth? So are all mistakes bound to hurt indefinately? When can the healing begin?

 

And since you've asserted many times that you do not seek to make his wife suffer, I deduced that the healing you seek is something you imagined would come from her knowing about/understanding/acknowledging your position vis a vis her terrible, cheating husband. I.e., forgiveness on some level -- that she would blame him, not you.

 

Whatever, KMT. Keep feeding yourself your favorite flavors of rationalization, if it makes you happy. I recall that last month you were advising someone else to leave his marriage and follow his heart because "true love" is too precious to sacrifice to a marriage. That was back when you were "over" your MM and didn't want him. It didn't ring true then, and it still doesn't. But that's ultimately your problem.

[StillHurtin]

KMT, in away I do believe you care but then again if you did why haven't you stopped contact w/ the MM? If you have so already I must of missed that. I would give the jewlery back to him. When my H had his A w/ his co-worker she gave him an expensive watch and some very nice shirts from an expensive clothing store. He accepted them all but when he broke it off w/ her he gave the watch back. As for the shirts, I didn't know about them until I seen them in his closet when we packing his things to move in w/ me after our seperation. I took the shirts and gave them away to Goodwill or one of those places. There was no way in he!! he was going to keep anything the OW gave him.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by StillHurtin

KMT, in away I do believe you care but then again if you did why haven't you stopped contact w/ the MM?

 

MM and I are both attorneys - his firm is associated counsel with my firm in several different cases. Breaking contact with him completely on my own would mean leaving my job, which I will NOT do.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by Owl

The bottom line is this... if you intend to end the affair, calling the wife and disclosing everything would be more beneficial than not calling. It gets the truth out in the open.

 

I actually AGREE with OWL!!! Oh my lordy, lordy! There's a first time for everything, ain't there?

[Mr Spock]

Yeah...but KMT-the original poster's wife is already aware of the affair...it's not entirely applicable to you.

[rtobiejr]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

MM and I are both attorneys - his firm is associated counsel with my firm in several different cases. Breaking contact with him completely on my own would mean leaving my job, which I will NOT do.

 

ah-- two attorneys-- the type i swear i shall never be when i graduate from law school

 

anyhow, how about you just walk away from all of this and leave these people alone...

 

wait, no-- you won't do that.

 

Eh, nevermind. You love things this way-- you apparently don't mind suffering the indiginities of being the other woman-- and you should really stop pretending that your sense of right and wrong is so acute that you simply have a moral obligation to tell this woman that you've been sleeping with her husband. Where was this strong sense of right and wrong when you started sleeping with her her husband in the first place?

 

Let's focus our attention back on you yes, you.

 

Like it in the spotlight?

[Owl]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

 

 

I actually AGREE with OWL!!! Oh my lordy, lordy! There's a first time for everything, ain't there?

 

 

OK, let's take a second to bask in this rare moment.......................................................................................................................................................OK, back to disagreeing now!!!

[KissMyTiara]

rtobiejr - neener neener, meanie pants!

[StillHurtin]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

MM and I are both attorneys - his firm is associated counsel with my firm in several different cases. Breaking contact with him completely on my own would mean leaving my job, which I will NOT do.

 

I didn't realize that. Are you seeing eachother outside of work? If so, then if you really cared about the W's feelings then you would end your relationship w/ MM on a personal level, JMO.

 

When H had an A w/ his co-worker he didn't want to leave his job either. He had worked very hard getting his supervisor position (the OW's supervisor) and he didn't want to loose that. I however told him I will NOT move back to the same town where the OW lived. I couldn't handle seeing that homewrecking whore knowing what she put me through (she was after H years b4 the A started, tried hard to be my friend, backstabbed me telling me that she would try to talk him out of the D, then sleeping w/ him.) Anyhow, for the best, the OW got him fired. H didn't do anything wrong and even hired an attorney to fight it. It was dismissed b/c his stupid lawyer failed to let him know that the company wrote him a letter stating that H wasn't employeed under a contract. If he wanted to appeal it he would need to contact his lawyer w/in a certain amount of time. His lawyer said he sent H a letter to inform him of that. He never got such a letter. Anyhow, I was thankful that she got him fired. It upset him b/c he loved his job but there was no way I was going to stay married to him if he was still working w/ the OW. The worked directly w/ eachother on a daily basis for 10 hours a day. I couldn't handle seeing him go off to work knowing she was around him. She said to me that she didn't care if a man is married, she was going to flirt w/ him. Yes, H refused to flirt back but that never stops her. I could write a book about the OW but I wont.

 

I just hope you can find happiness KMT, b/c this MM isn't making you happy.

[KissMyTiara]

Neither one of us would ever get fired over this, we're not in an ethical bind or anything. We don't work for the same firms either (tattling wouldn't work, like in your situation), so unless one of us legitimately F-ed up on a case, neither of us will be abandoning our posts.

[Karlise13]

I think your continued focus on what 'needs' to be 'done' with regards to this entanglement/relationship merely indicates that you are not ready to bid adieu to it.

 

I think oftentimes we maintain 'relationships' under the guise of 'ending things' as we continue plotting our next moves, discussing our ex-person's actions, analyzing the sporadic communications we still have with them, arguing and debating, returning items, asking for items back, scribbling notes, sending terse 'final' e-mails, imagining their home life, concocting small plays in our head where we triumph as the other wallows in pain and regret, telling others to 'be careful of him' and 'I think you should know' and 'As one woman to another I feel compelled to be truthful', allowing that magical rush of fear and resentment to wash over us....

 

 

 

You know, the 'healing' begins when YOU move on KMT.

 

At this point you are not 'healing'. You are picking at an angry wound and expressing to us here, "GODDAMN IT..... I'M WOUNDED AND PISSED!"

 

And we can see it, bloody and oozing.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by Karlise13

I think your continued focus on what 'needs' to be 'done' with regards to this entanglement/relationship merely indicates that you are not ready to bid adieu to it.

 

You're right.

It NEEDS to be done, I WANT it to be done, but I'm not ready for it. I need to rip the bandaid off, but I am too terrified. I need to pull out the bad tooth, but I'm too terrified. I know what I need, I know what I want, but I am ... not ready.

 

I'm planning it all out in my mind. But I'm not ready. You're right.

[Leaf]

Karlise : wow you should be a writer. You hit on exactly what I am going through.

[Barby]

Originally posted by KissMyTiara

 

 

You're right.

It NEEDS to be done, I WANT it to be done, but I'm not ready for it. I need to rip the bandaid off, but I am too terrified. I need to pull out the bad tooth, but I'm too terrified. I know what I need, I know what I want, but I am ... not ready.

 

I'm planning it all out in my mind. But I'm not ready. You're right.

 

 

 

Now with this being said, why do you continue saying you're going to end it if you know indeed you're not ready nor are you really making the effort to do so? Why endure the redicule here each and every time you say you want/are going to end it? I guess I don't really understand...is it because you truly in your heart of hearts want to end it and believe you will or is it because you say things about wanting to tell his wife, ending it, ect when you're in a "mood" when he's not around?

 

 

I'm in no way assuming or being mean, I guess I'm trying to understand your motives/where you're coming from.

[immoralist]

Karlise : wow you should be a writer. You hit on exactly what I am going through.

 

 

I second that.

 

Affairs don't just End. Instead there are multiple mini-endings--each one draining energy from the Relationship. Most affairs end with an aching whimper, not a bang. Usually, as the physical relationship fitfully expires, the emotional relationship shambles on like some Romero zombie. The increasingly estranged affair partners persist in fitful communications, fueled by sexual nostalgia, habit and the ever dimming hope that the Affair will resurrect itself and return to its Glory Days.

 

Exquisite sex yields to dull ache, however, as the soon-to-be ex-lovers struggle to re-animate the corpse of their expired relationship.

 

In an affair, everything is greater--the love, the sex, the need and the loss.

 

The gates of Eden will not re-open.

[SoleMate]

You know, of everything in this thread, the one thing that has made sense to me is KMT's coke dealer comment. KMT has a big, bad, nasty habit known as "MM" and she is trying to shake it off her back! We're supposed to help her. And yet everyone here is trying to make sure that her motives are 'pure" and she is "honest about her feelings". And that she does this all in the most dignified way possible, while being an icon of selfless strength. Why? Is it really central? Do you ask the same questions and make the same demands of someone trying to kick crystal meth?

 

Let's support KMT in her quest to quit. I'll tell you from the heart...that in her shoes, which I so very much hope and believe I would never find myself wearing, I would seriously consider triggering a crisis that would accomplish my #1, overriding goal - shaking the MM. KMT, if you have to crawl in the gutter or be impure or dishonest to get rid of this "thing" - DO IT! To remedy a greater evil, you may need to commit a lesser one. In this situation, for you, time is of the essence. Whatever it takes to do it quick is WORTH it.

 

LET ME REPEAT: In my view, the best thing we can do is to support KMT in her efforts to SHAKE THIS CREEPY CRAWLY THING off her back and out of her panties as FAST as possible.

 

AND...as long as I am ranting...let me say that I think some of the needling of KMT is really just a quest to punish her for her OW transgressions. Take a look back and read your own posts, everybody. Which were primarily advice and support (I mean support of her as a human being , NOT support of her affair or necessarily any of her actions) and which were nasty jabs, intended to show how wrong every one of her thoughts and intentions are? IMO, being an OW has its own punishment built into the situation (the pain, loneliness, humiliation, regrets, and derailing of one's life), so I don't feel the need to add on any more. In fact, sometimes the built-in punishment is disproprtionately harsh.

 

C'mon, everybody...who here is going to support KMT in quitting the affair?

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by SoleMate

You know, of everything in this thread, the one thing that has made sense to me is KMT's coke dealer comment. KMT has a big, bad, nasty habit known as "MM" and she is trying to shake it off her back! We're supposed to help her. And yet everyone here is trying to make sure that her motives are 'pure" and she is "honest about her feelings". And that she does this all in the most dignified way possible, while being an icon of selfless strength. Why? Is it really central? Do you ask the same questions and make the same demands of someone trying to kick crystal meth?

 

Let's support KMT in her quest to quit. I'll tell you from the heart...that in her shoes, which I so very much hope and believe I would never find myself wearing, I would seriously consider triggering a crisis that would accomplish my #1, overriding goal - shaking the MM. KMT, if you have to crawl in the gutter or be impure or dishonest to get rid of this "thing" - DO IT! To remedy a greater evil, you may need to commit a lesser one. In this situation, for you, time is of the essence. Whatever it takes to do it quick is WORTH it.

 

LET ME REPEAT: In my view, the best thing we can do is to support KMT in her efforts to SHAKE THIS CREEPY CRAWLY THING off her back and out of her panties as FAST as possible.

 

AND...as long as I am ranting...let me say that I think some of the needling of KMT is really just a quest to punish her for her OW transgressions. Take a look back and read your own posts, everybody. Which were primarily advice and support (I mean support of her as a human being , NOT support of her affair or necessarily any of her actions) and which were nasty jabs, intended to show how wrong every one of her thoughts and intentions are? IMO, being an OW has its own punishment built into the situation (the pain, loneliness, humiliation, regrets, and derailing of one's life), so I don't feel the need to add on any more. In fact, sometimes the built-in punishment is disproprtionately harsh.

 

C'mon, everybody...who here is going to support KMT in quitting the affair?

 

I like this post.

 

Of course I'm sure there will be people who say "Blah blah BLAH she's selfish blah blah blah she's in the wrong blah blah blah find a single man blah blah blah BLAH no coddling blah, freaking blah it's so IMMORAL blah BLAH"

 

Of course, they could always go fornicate themselves, couldn't they.

[Leaf]

*stands up and claps*

Awesome post SoulMate!

 

and I agree Spock.. they can go "fornicate" themselves.. LMAO!

[KissMyTiara]

Thank you SoleMate, from the bottom of my poor withered little heart. The "lesser evil" is precisely the path that I am planning to take, and your post was exactly the sort of support I was looking for. Thank you.

[StillHurtin]

Coming from a W who was betrayed I will not bash KMT. I don't agree w/ what she is doing but I do feel bad for her. I know what it's like to love someone that you can't have (I was the OW but he wasn't married but seriously involved, he did marry her after we ended our relationship). It is he!! to love someone that you can't have. It is he!! not to be #1 in that persons life. It's he!! knowing he is w/ his GF/W and you can't be w/ him. Now, I feel badly for being involved w/ a man who was seriously involved w/ another woman, but at the time, I didn't care. I was addicted and obessessed w/ him.

 

I wish KMT the best in getting out of this mess. It is going to be hard when she sees him all the time. I know it helped me when I moved out of town to finish college. The long distance made it easier. He married her shortly after I moved away. We were involved for about 3 years. I hope that KMT is strong and can do this.