RedRobin Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 (edited) You're lack of imagination is disturbing. What you call "standards" I call "cynicism." too bad. Unfortunately, it's still the case that women are the ones who usually pay the biggest price for misjudging a man's intentions. It is naïve at best, and disrespectful at worst, to believe every women ought to just take a man's word for things because they have feewings... No smart woman who actually wants a relationship... not just throwing the dice... does that. Men who also want a serious LTR relationship don't have a habit of dropping trou with women early either. They, just like women, know what to do with their feelings. They trust but verify, and don't put themselves in positions where that will be compromised. You don't want to? Fine. I guess for a few people here, the stakes just aren't all that high. *shrug* That's how it looks to me. Edited December 12, 2013 by RedRobin 1
regine_phalange Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 It's a cute idea. However, I think cooking together is more suitable when the relationship is more stable. But, on the other hand, why not? Oh, I don't know, just have fun (and hang out outside on the next date for variety!). But bravo; I am a lady and I rarely cook dinner to men, not to mention how bad I am with making dessert!
MalachiX Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 too bad. Unfortunately, it's still the case that women are the ones who usually pay the biggest price for misjudging a man's intentions. I feel bad that you've been so damaged by guys that your attitude has become so judgmental and hostile. I'm guessing it's not your fault but I don't think many sincere guys would want to be around such negative vibes. It is naïve at best, and disrespectful at worst, to believe every women ought to just take a man's word for things because they have feewings... Seriously? I suggested that it's possible for a guy to develop feelings by the forth date and that a woman should be smart enough to make her own choices and do what feels right for her. That's disrespectful to women? Apparently it's more empowering to suggest that the average woman is clueless, easily manipulated, and should adhere to your strict dating timeline because she's incapable of deciding for herself. No smart woman who actually wants a relationship... not just throwing the dice... does that. Men who also want a serious LTR relationship don't have a habit of dropping trou with women early either. You know, I feel like this thread has turned increasingly hostile. I've probably been more sharp in my responses than I normally am. Allow me to explain why: I'm a guy in his late 20s (will be 30 soon) and my friends tend to range from mid 20s to early 30s. Now I don't know how old you are or who you chose to spend your time with. I do know that the generalizations you keep flinging around as though they were facts certainly don't apply to the vast amount of people I know and who I care about. When you say, "no smart woman" will have dinner with a man on the 4th date when looking for an LTR, that rubs me the wrong way because you're essentially saying that all the intelligent and wonderful women who I'm proud to count as my friends are idiots who have been manipulated because they have had dinner or sex on the forth date. When you say men who want a serious LTR won't have sex on the forth date, you're essentially calling me and a number of my guy friends players and manipulators when that's simply not the case. I think of all the great couples who I know, many of which have been together for years and some of which who are married, and I can't wonder what their reaction to your rules would be. They seem pretty happy. Do you think the men are running some kind of long con where they don't want a LTR but marry a woman or date her for years just so it'll be that much more awesome when they dump her? I think you have a very limited view of relationships and your desire to claim that those who don't share it are sleeze-bags or idiots is a really bad idea. 5
40 Fonzarelli Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 So what are the downsides to having sex too early? I always thought the 3rd date is usually the sex date.
2.50 a gallon Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 I never invited a woman over for dinner expecting it would lead to sex. But when you think about it, a good meal, a bottle of wine or two, some alone time to sit around, relax, listen to some music and talk, in most cases it did lead to sex. And in almost every occasion they came back for more or invited me over to their place for dinner. With my current gf, I invited her over to bake Halloween cookies on our third date, with the hopes that it would lead to something more. We have now been together for over 18 years, and I now know if I hadn't come thru that night, it would have been our last date.
RedRobin Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 I never invited a woman over for dinner expecting it would lead to sex. But when you think about it, a good meal, a bottle of wine or two, some alone time to sit around, relax, listen to some music and talk, in most cases it did lead to sex. And in almost every occasion they came back for more or invited me over to their place for dinner. With my current gf, I invited her over to bake Halloween cookies on our third date, with the hopes that it would lead to something more. We have now been together for over 18 years, and I now know if I hadn't come thru that night, it would have been our last date. Lets not forget the scores (maybe 100's) of women you had sex with and didn't have LTRs with. ... and your current partner... if memory serves... you knew for over a year to a year and a half... When she broke up with her long-time BF, you jumped on the opportunity. This is correct, right? She wasn't a stranger, in other words. 1
RedRobin Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 I feel bad that you've been so damaged by guys that your attitude has become so judgmental and hostile. I'm guessing it's not your fault but I don't think many sincere guys would want to be around such negative vibes. Your attitude is exactly the kind of subtle bullying I'm talking about. You invite a woman over and leave it up to her to interpret your intentions, rather than you just cooling your heels and maybe letting her do the inviting?? Your message is clear. Agree to your dinner invitation or don't get another because she's obviously 'damaged' and 'cynical' if she's not open to the possibility of having sex with you on the 4th date or thereabouts. This is exactly what is implied by the stupid idiotic dinner invitation. Does it occur to you how uncreative this is? How many guys try this? If you really want to do something 'romantic', there are lots of other things you could suggest. Seriously? I suggested that it's possible for a guy to develop feelings by the forth date and that a woman should be smart enough to make her own choices and do what feels right for her. Whatever. If you really have 'feelings', I'm sure it can wait until you get to know each other better, now can't it? That's disrespectful to women? Apparently it's more empowering to suggest that the average woman is clueless, easily manipulated, and should adhere to your strict dating timeline because she's incapable of deciding for herself. They can do whatever they want. Just don't interpret a guy cooking dinner as diddly squat. Is my advice. Go ahead and have sex on the 1st or the 4th date. It's pretty bad odds it will result in anything long term. If that's not what you are looking for, then do whatever you want. I'm a guy in his late 20s (will be 30 soon) and my friends tend to range from mid 20s to early 30s. Now I don't know how old you are or who you chose to spend your time with. I do know that the generalizations you keep flinging around as though they were facts certainly don't apply to the vast amount of people I know and who I care about. People in your age range are generally into 'hookups' and think anything lasting longer than 3 months is a 'long term relationship'. This fits in the time scale of 3rd-4th date sex... basically... you know someone for two weeks or a month max, and you are having sex. When you say, "no smart woman" will have dinner with a man on the 4th date when looking for an LTR, that rubs me the wrong way because you're essentially saying that all the intelligent and wonderful women who I'm proud to count as my friends are idiots who have been manipulated because they have had dinner or sex on the forth date. I'm not saying they have been manipulated. I'm saying they are not acting in their own best interests if they want a LTR. They are acting in his best interests, which, for most men, means sex ASAP with no demonstration of real interest or ability to commit. Rinse-repeat. When you say men who want a serious LTR won't have sex on the forth date, you're essentially calling me and a number of my guy friends players and manipulators when that's simply not the case. Men with something to lose by jumping into bed with the wrong kind of woman... yes. They do not make a habit of jumping into bed that soon. I know plenty of them. They are very careful in their attention. Perhaps if they know each other in some other context... perhaps. If they are relative strangers beforehand?? nope, no way. All the other guys? Yea, they are trying to squeeze it in ASAP and expect the woman to do the sorting out. This is why I'd look askance at any man who offered a dinner at his place that early. Basically, by making this suggestion, he's upset the hourglass on when sex better happen. Face it... You and lots of other guys just don't like waiting or getting to know a woman unless sex is happening early... and this is your way of pushing things without just coming out and being crass about it. I think you have a very limited view of relationships and your desire to claim that those who don't share it are sleeze-bags or idiots is a really bad idea Hardly. I come from a long line of happily married people... very little divorce. My friends are the same. We aren't a part of the hookup culture who has sex with strangers, then asks questions later. 1
writergal Posted December 12, 2013 Posted December 12, 2013 I feel bad that you've been so damaged by guys that your attitude has become so judgmental and hostile. I'm guessing it's not your fault but I don't think many sincere guys would want to be around such negative vibes. Seriously? I suggested that it's possible for a guy to develop feelings by the forth date and that a woman should be smart enough to make her own choices and do what feels right for her. That's disrespectful to women? Apparently it's more empowering to suggest that the average woman is clueless, easily manipulated, and should adhere to your strict dating timeline because she's incapable of deciding for herself. You know, I feel like this thread has turned increasingly hostile. I've probably been more sharp in my responses than I normally am. Allow me to explain why: I'm a guy in his late 20s (will be 30 soon) and my friends tend to range from mid 20s to early 30s. Now I don't know how old you are or who you chose to spend your time with. I do know that the generalizations you keep flinging around as though they were facts certainly don't apply to the vast amount of people I know and who I care about. When you say, "no smart woman" will have dinner with a man on the 4th date when looking for an LTR, that rubs me the wrong way because you're essentially saying that all the intelligent and wonderful women who I'm proud to count as my friends are idiots who have been manipulated because they have had dinner or sex on the forth date. When you say men who want a serious LTR won't have sex on the forth date, you're essentially calling me and a number of my guy friends players and manipulators when that's simply not the case. I think of all the great couples who I know, many of which have been together for years and some of which who are married, and I can't wonder what their reaction to your rules would be. They seem pretty happy. Do you think the men are running some kind of long con where they don't want a LTR but marry a woman or date her for years just so it'll be that much more awesome when they dump her? I think you have a very limited view of relationships and your desire to claim that those who don't share it are sleeze-bags or idiots is a really bad idea. Your entire post is a very blatant deflection of RedRobin's valid points. Rather than see the validity in her DIFFERENT POV, you resort to destructive deflection, so that your POV remains unchallenged, because you don't want to even TRY to understand RedRobin's POV (or anyone else who disagrees with you). It's clear that no one will get through to you -- but I think that's your goal -- to be heard because you may feel insecure about your own dating experiences (I have no idea). Usually, when posters attack other posters' POV they disagree with, it's because they 1) don't like to lose an argument and 2) try to bulldoze that person so that they can feel validated that they are right and that other person is wrong. Notice that I haven't even addressed your previous post to me, slamming me for having dating standards that are different from yours. Why haven't I addressed it? Because I know that it's pointless to argue with people like you whose only agenda is to be right. For someone who claims he's in his late 20s, I don't think you quite grasp that dating is indeed a TWO WAY STREET. And, that men are just as responsible for setting boundaries where sex comes into play early on in dating someone. RedRobin's vibes aren't negative. I think you and her clearly disagree with each other and have a different set of values where dating and sex is concerned. There's nothing wrong with that. People are different. What I don't appreciate, is seeing posters hurl insults at those they disagree with. It makes for a boring conversation because the whole point of the thread gets left behind and replaced with egos battling egos. *Yawn* and that's just boring. So, why don't you concede that you and RedRobin DISAGREE and play nice from now on, eh? But if you can't do that, that's just a side effect of being close minded, insecure and afraid to see that others' points have validity whether you agree with them or not. Maybe with more dating experience you'll learn to respect women more (but I don't see that happening anytime soon, based on the way you respond to women here in this thread, very condescending and defensive).
writergal Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Your attitude is exactly the kind of subtle bullying I'm talking about. You invite a woman over and leave it up to her to interpret your intentions, rather than you just cooling your heels and maybe letting her do the inviting?? Your message is clear. Agree to your dinner invitation or don't get another because she's obviously 'damaged' and 'cynical' if she's not open to the possibility of having sex with you on the 4th date or thereabouts. This is exactly what is implied by the stupid idiotic dinner invitation. Does it occur to you how uncreative this is? How many guys try this? If you really want to do something 'romantic', there are lots of other things you could suggest. Whatever. If you really have 'feelings', I'm sure it can wait until you get to know each other better, now can't it? They can do whatever they want. Just don't interpret a guy cooking dinner as diddly squat. Is my advice. Go ahead and have sex on the 1st or the 4th date. It's pretty bad odds it will result in anything long term. If that's not what you are looking for, then do whatever you want. People in your age range are generally into 'hookups' and think anything lasting longer than 3 months is a 'long term relationship'. This fits in the time scale of 3rd-4th date sex... basically... you know someone for two weeks or a month max, and you are having sex. I'm not saying they have been manipulated. I'm saying they are not acting in their own best interests if they want a LTR. They are acting in his best interests, which, for most men, means sex ASAP with no demonstration of real interest or ability to commit. Rinse-repeat. Men with something to lose by jumping into bed with the wrong kind of woman... yes. They do not make a habit of jumping into bed that soon. I know plenty of them. They are very careful in their attention. Perhaps if they know each other in some other context... perhaps. If they are relative strangers beforehand?? nope, no way. All the other guys? Yea, they are trying to squeeze it in ASAP and expect the woman to do the sorting out. This is why I'd look askance at any man who offered a dinner at his place that early. Basically, by making this suggestion, he's upset the hourglass on when sex better happen. Face it... You and lots of other guys just don't like waiting or getting to know a woman unless sex is happening early... and this is your way of pushing things without just coming out and being crass about it. Hardly. I come from a long line of happily married people... very little divorce. My friends are the same. We aren't a part of the hookup culture who has sex with strangers, then asks questions later. Excellent response, RedRobin!! It's exactly what I was thinking, but you said it better than I could. Totally agree with you. The day a college-aged guy or 20-something guy waits more than 2-3 months before he has sex with a woman he's dating, is the day that pigs fly. 1
Els Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 The day a college-aged guy or 20-something guy waits more than 2-3 months before he has sex with a woman he's dating, is the day that pigs fly. Depends entirely on your culture. Flying pigs would have made a cool sight, but there weren't any in the sky on our 3rd month mark unfortunately. Maybe they were too heavy to lift off? 1
writergal Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Depends entirely on your culture. Flying pigs would have made a cool sight, but there weren't any in the sky on our 3rd month mark unfortunately. Maybe they were too heavy to lift off? I don't think casual sex is the result of just one culture. That's disingenuous to say that (and frankly, a convenient excuse to justify casual sex as being an "ok" method for starting a romantic relationship). College students and 20-somethings hookup with each other, and try to call that a relationship, when it's the opposite. A relationship built from just sex is one-dimensional and doesn't delve into the emotional-bonding aspect that comes with a mature, long-term relationship. Hook-up sex culture is common among college students in every culture. Casual sex is not culturally exclusive. It happens all over the world.
Els Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 I don't think casual sex is the result of just one culture. That's disingenuous to say that (and frankly, a convenient excuse to justify casual sex as being an "ok" method for starting a romantic relationship). College students and 20-somethings hookup with each other, and try to call that a relationship, when it's the opposite. A relationship built from just sex is one-dimensional and doesn't delve into the emotional-bonding aspect that comes with a mature, long-term relationship. Hook-up sex culture is common among college students in every culture. Casual sex is not culturally exclusive. It happens all over the world. That wasn't what I said. I was rebutting your point that it's apparently so rare for a 20+ yo man to wait for sex that 'pigs fly' when it happens. It's not as rare as you think in some cultures, though casual sex does still happen.
writergal Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 That wasn't what I said. I was rebutting your point that it's apparently so rare for a 20+ yo man to wait for sex that 'pigs fly' when it happens. It's not as rare as you think in some cultures, though casual sex does still happen. Ahhhh. Sorry about that. Now I see what you meant.
Author Nanners Posted December 13, 2013 Author Posted December 13, 2013 (edited) Wow this thread took off real fast But here's an update for everyone. A few days ago I asked her if she wanted to come to my place, which is just up stairs from her dorm, and I could cook for her and we could watch are favorite show together. She got really excited that I knew how to cook and she told me she would absolutely love to come over. The day after I ask her for the dinner date we were out shopping together, getting Christmas presents for our families, when she got a phone call that her grandpa had died. After that she has been really distant with me. This morning she sat me down and told me that she has a lot on her mind and that she wasn't sure what she wants in a relationship. I respected her wishes and told her that she has my number if she ever needs me. Gave her a hug and that was the last time I have heard from her. So right now I'm going to give her some space and hope that she doesn't forget about me Edited December 13, 2013 by Nanners
MalachiX Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Hey Robin. I think we're not getting anywhere. Either I'm really bad at explaining my viewpoint or you're really bad at understanding it. I'll state it one more time mostly for my own sanity and in the hopes that doing so will stop me from one day being quite as judgemental of other people's relationships as you seem to be of mine and my friends. After that I don't see much point continuing. Your attitude is exactly the kind of subtle bullying I'm talking about. So, I understand that you tend to have a pretty combative view about a lot of things relating to dating an sexuality. That said, I really think you might want to check your terminology in this case. Some people, myself included, might take a lot of issue when you suggest that inviting a woman to dinner is bullying. Some of us might really dislike that because we know what actual bullying is. We remember being taunted mercilessly at school. We remember getting beat up. Some of us even remember when we got death threats. I, and some of my close friends, have experienced what real "bullying" is. I can't speak for them but for you to use that term the way you just did shows an incredible combination of cynicism and cluelessness on your part as well as an incredible insensitivity. It's kind of why people who have been raped don't appreciate others using the term sexual assault when it doesn't apply (like when dealing with a bad kisser). It's the same reason why the few holocaust survivors left don't usually like it when people throw around the word Nazi. You've shown on this thread that you don't have a lot of respect for other people's relationship decisions but I do think you may want to slow down and consider other people's feelings before you start using words of which you apparently know nothing about. You invite a woman over and leave it up to her to interpret your intentions, rather than you just cooling your heels and maybe letting her do the inviting?? Actually, I think it's great when a woman does the inviting. I think it's great for us to be moving to a place of gender neutrality in dating where we're just two individuals and neither party has to feel an obligation to be the one to push the relationship. I've actually had a girl I was dating invite me to spend the night early in the relationship. That said, if you'd take a second to do ANY kind of research, or just look at a lot of the posts on these forums, you'd see that a plurality of women expect a man to take the initiative. I've lost track of how many completely progressive women have told me they want a man to make many of the first moves and, if he doesn't, they assume he's just not that into her. I'm sure you'll find some way to rationalize that me pointing this out is somehow indicative of a guy who only wants sex and is manipulating all the women he dates. Your message is clear. Agree to your dinner invitation or don't get another because she's obviously 'damaged' and 'cynical' if she's not open to the possibility of having sex with you on the 4th date or thereabouts. This is exactly what is implied by the stupid idiotic dinner invitation. A woman who doesn't want to have dinner on the first date is not "cynical" or "damaged." You are. I think that was pretty clear from my last post. Either you're being purposefully obtuse because your your general combativeness (which would be my guess), or you're simply incapable of understanding fairly simple English. Either way, there's not a whole lot I can do to convince you. I have no problem with any woman who wants to take things more slowly or takes longer to trust someone. I have a great deal of respect for a great many different approaches that people have to dating. You clearly don't and you continually characterize people as idiots and manipulators for not adhereing to your standards. Whatever. If you really have 'feelings', I'm sure it can wait until you get to know each other better, now can't it? "Whatever?" Seriously? You talk about "people my age" suggesting that you're somehow older and more experienced yet your response is the same a 14-year-old girl might use when being told to do her homework. If I have real feelings, yes, they can certainly wait for a long time. For many of us though, we're so excited to meet someone we click with that we don't really want to wait. We want to experience as much of that person as we can because we've found somebody. Maybe that's not always the best way of doing things but it's hard when you've been looking for a long time. We fall into things quickly because so many of us really want to be happy. If you really think the only reason to want to be closer is to get laid then you're more confused than I thought. Not to mention that there's a lot that goes on in between dates. Often you may have been friends with somebody for a while before you asked them out. Often you're so excited about each other that you spend a lot of time talking on the phone in between dates. People in your age range are generally into 'hookups' and think anything lasting longer than 3 months is a 'long term relationship'. I'm glad I met you. I'm actually going to write a letter to myself in the hopes that I don't get as narrow minded as you when I get older. My dating habbits may change (we all change); but I hope I'm not as condescending and set in my ways when I reach your age. I hope I'll know that I still have a lot to learn and be willing to keep an open mind as far as other people's relationship habbits are concerned. I'm not saying they have been manipulated. I'm saying they are not acting in their own best interests if they want a LTR. They are acting in his best interests, which, for most men, means sex ASAP with no demonstration of real interest or ability to commit. Rinse-repeat. Except, in all these cases, they were acting in their best interests. They found great partners who didn't just want sex and are still together. They probably wouldn't have lost anything by waiting but they also didn't lose anything by going at their own pace rather than the one you seem to think is right for everybody. I come from a long line of happily married people... very little divorce. My friends are the same. We aren't a part of the hookup culture who has sex with strangers, then asks questions later. If you're willing to send me your name and address, I'd be happy to mail you a cookie in celebration of your accomplishment. Perhaps wait a couple months before you eat it. That way the cookie will know you're really in this for the long hall. 2
MalachiX Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Your entire post is a very blatant deflection of RedRobin's valid points. Rather than see the validity in her DIFFERENT POV, you resort to destructive deflection, so that your POV remains unchallenged, because you don't want to even TRY to understand RedRobin's POV (or anyone else who disagrees with you). It's clear that no one will get through to you -- but I think that's your goal -- to be heard because you may feel insecure about your own dating experiences (I have no idea). Usually, when posters attack other posters' POV they disagree with, it's because they 1) don't like to lose an argument and 2) try to bulldoze that person so that they can feel validated that they are right and that other person is wrong. Notice that I haven't even addressed your previous post to me, slamming me for having dating standards that are different from yours. Why haven't I addressed it? Because I know that it's pointless to argue with people like you whose only agenda is to be right. Hey Writer Gal, not going to spend a whole lot of time arguing before I bow out. You are correct about a few things. I do like to be right (and sometimes I even am ). Also, if I was more secure (or just smarter); I probably would have shrugged at your and Robyn's silly responses rather than wasted any time convincing you otherwise. My guess is that you two wouldn't have repeated your opinions as many times as you did if you were 100% secure either. Perhaps we can learn from each other's mistakes. As for not accepting another person's POV, I really do suggest you turn the mirror on yourself and your friend. As I've said numerous times, I don't have any issue with anyone who prefers to take things slowly (male or female). I just don't appreciate when people like you or her suggest that your rules are the only ones and state your opinions as facts. I can make room for other people's ways of dating. I may adopt them one day. I just don't know why you two kids can't be open minded. I don't need to illustrate this in Robyn's case (as you can just read her last bunch of posts). Maybe you've forgotten your own writings though: Cooking at your place and watching a tv episode fterwards (which can lead to a heavy make out session or sex, be honest) on the 4th date? Too soon for that. Cooking dinner together before sex isn't romantic at all when you barely know each other. I think it's tacky. Romance this early on, needs to be sex-free b/c you barely know each other after only 3 dates. These statements, and a lot of others, don't leave a lot of room for other opinions. Maybe with more dating experience you'll learn to respect women more (but I don't see that happening anytime soon, based on the way you respond to women here in this thread, very condescending and defensive). And this is the coward's way out of a debate and to me the sign of a false feminist. I've been nothing but respectful towards women on this thread and in all of my posts on this board. It's very sad when someone like you stands up and says, "anyone who disagrees with me doesn't like women" or "anyone who disagrees with me doesn't like [whatever race I belong to]" It trivializes legitimate sexism and racism by turning into a card you can play when you don't feel good about yourself. Good luck with that. Hope you meet a nice guy who will go at whatever pace you need him to. Hope the same happens for all of us. 2
runningfar Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Holy hell-o... With all the very real misogyny that takes place on this board, I'm not sure how you got attacked for a sweet little date of cooking together. I, for one, am perfectly capable of going to a guy's house and not having sex or even feeling pressured to have sex. Not that there's anything wrong with sex whenever both people want it. Early or not. I thought, especially with the inside joke of cooking, it was a very sweet date idea. 2
salparadise Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 i'm a woman, & am offended by your trivializing of women as incapable of deciding for themselves whether to have sex with a man who cooks them dinner. preposterous. Yea, I'm with jan_ma. How many fallacies can be fleshed out of this thread... (pun intended) Cooking is an underhanded, deceptive device designed to recruit women into a man's haremWomen are so naive that they can't see or resist men's evil ulterior motivesAccepting food within a residence undermines a woman's ability to make decisionsMen who offer to cook (4th date or thereabouts) are either evil or cluelessWomen who may actually desire intimacy themselves are clueless slutsX-Y-Z presumptions are universally knownMen should be the guardians of female virtueIntimacy (on 4th date or whatever) precludes [interest in] a relationship A relationship is the only honorable objective, and a man without that purpose is worse than... short, bald, overweight, asymmetrical, mutant, etc. 6
Zahara Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Wow this thread took off real fast But here's an update for everyone. A few days ago I asked her if she wanted to come to my place, which is just up stairs from her dorm, and I could cook for her and we could watch are favorite show together. She got really excited that I knew how to cook and she told me she would absolutely love to come over. The day after I ask her for the dinner date we were out shopping together, getting Christmas presents for our families, when she got a phone call that her grandpa had died. After that she has been really distant with me. This morning she sat me down and told me that she has a lot on her mind and that she wasn't sure what she wants in a relationship. I respected her wishes and told her that she has my number if she ever needs me. Gave her a hug and that was the last time I have heard from her. So right now I'm going to give her some space and hope that she doesn't forget about me Oh Nanners, that's unfortunate. It's a very diffcult time, especially during the holidays to lose a loved on. I'm sure she's emotionally and mentally spent and it was a good thing that she was upfront about not wanting to be in a relationship before things took off. Keep living your life as usual and I hope for your sake she has a change of heart at some point.
Babolat Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 My new lady friend and I are coming up on our fourth date. We have this running joke now where she complains about not knowing how to cook and I always come back with atleast you know how to bake cookies out of the tube (she baked cookies for me one day that she claimed was her own but later admitted it was out of a tube lol). So I came up with this awesome date idea where she comes over to my apartment we have dinner and watch an episode of our favorite show. I was thinking about maybe making a home made pizza and have her help make the pizza with me. Or should it be when she shows up the dinner is done? Which one would be more romantic? I usually wait a bit to invite a new woman to my house...at least 6-7 dates, and when I do, it's usually me cooking a dinner, for them. And I try to get a temperature check from her prior, to see if it's something she is comfortable with.
Lansing Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 I never once thought that by inviting a girl over for dinner or a movie that I was expecting/wanting sex to happen that night. I don't see what is so wrong with cooking for a person at your place. Maybe someone doesn't have the budget to be taking someone out all the time, or maybe someone is watching their diet and can control it more when they are cooking. Or maybe someone prefers the quality of food from what they make vs. get in a restaurant. Don't make assumptions, let the guy show his true colours through his action. To the OP, with regards to your situation. I suggest you do keep quiet for a bit but I wouldn't drop it completely. I would personally just check in with her at some point next week and ask how she has been doing. No pressure to hang out or anything but just a "hi". You seem like a decent guy and it seems like the kind of thing that you would naturally do. You might think "oh, I am going to go no contact and wait to see if she re-initiates" but I think you probably want to be with a girl that would appreciate you checking in... and, if she doesn't, well, then she isn't for you.
emva07 Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 I don't think you can assume that by a guy making you dinner at home he wants sex....I wouldn't. Now....if after sex he throws himself onto me...then yes, that was his intention BUT it is up to ME if I want to accept the advance or not. If a guy's intention is to bed you, this will be knows regardless of the location of the date (he can take you out to dinner and say "hey, wanna come back to my place?") I think the cooking for her is a romantic idea (and a good way to save money)...I'd say have it in the oven when she gets there and all the last minute things can be done together. 2
salparadise Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Maybe someone doesn't have the budget to be taking someone out all the time, or maybe someone is watching their diet and can control it more when they are cooking. Or maybe someone prefers the quality of food from what they make vs. get in a restaurant. Yes, all realistic considerations that apply to me. I really don't like walking out of a restaurant half satisfied and $150 lighter. I would so much rather save that for special occasions, and go to better restaurants. I eat completely gluten-free (anyone else?) and that equates to narrow choices, always wondering if what I'm eating is ok, and dreading having to ask forty questions about how things are prepared. Plus I'm a good cook; I enjoy cooking and have a well equipped kitchen. All the women I've dated have been enthusiastic, even those who are foodies in their own right. It's pretty rare that I leave a restaurant feeling like I've had a better meal and a better experience than I could've produced at home. I'm just not going to be a match for women who equate value in men with how much they're willing to drop at restaurants every week... much less those who feel they're being manipulated and taken advantage when a man offers to cook. So far that hasn't been a problem. 1
Babolat Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Your attitude is exactly the kind of subtle bullying I'm talking about. You invite a woman over and leave it up to her to interpret your intentions, rather than you just cooling your heels and maybe letting her do the inviting?? Your message is clear. Agree to your dinner invitation or don't get another because she's obviously 'damaged' and 'cynical' if she's not open to the possibility of having sex with you on the 4th date or thereabouts. This is exactly what is implied by the stupid idiotic dinner invitation. Does it occur to you how uncreative this is? How many guys try this? If you really want to do something 'romantic', there are lots of other things you could suggest. Whatever. If you really have 'feelings', I'm sure it can wait until you get to know each other better, now can't it? They can do whatever they want. Just don't interpret a guy cooking dinner as diddly squat. Is my advice. Go ahead and have sex on the 1st or the 4th date. It's pretty bad odds it will result in anything long term. If that's not what you are looking for, then do whatever you want. People in your age range are generally into 'hookups' and think anything lasting longer than 3 months is a 'long term relationship'. This fits in the time scale of 3rd-4th date sex... basically... you know someone for two weeks or a month max, and you are having sex. I'm not saying they have been manipulated. I'm saying they are not acting in their own best interests if they want a LTR. They are acting in his best interests, which, for most men, means sex ASAP with no demonstration of real interest or ability to commit. Rinse-repeat. Men with something to lose by jumping into bed with the wrong kind of woman... yes. They do not make a habit of jumping into bed that soon. I know plenty of them. They are very careful in their attention. Perhaps if they know each other in some other context... perhaps. If they are relative strangers beforehand?? nope, no way. All the other guys? Yea, they are trying to squeeze it in ASAP and expect the woman to do the sorting out. This is why I'd look askance at any man who offered a dinner at his place that early. Basically, by making this suggestion, he's upset the hourglass on when sex better happen. Face it... You and lots of other guys just don't like waiting or getting to know a woman unless sex is happening early... and this is your way of pushing things without just coming out and being crass about it. Hardly. I come from a long line of happily married people... very little divorce. My friends are the same. We aren't a part of the hookup culture who has sex with strangers, then asks questions later. I'm coming in late, have not read all the replies. In my personal experience, especially with my last gf, after about 6-7 dates I wanted to cook for her. Sex was not even close to my mind, and, we had not had sex yet. I tossed some hints out about wanting to cook for her. She finally said "When are you going to invite me over for dinner?". So I did, and, there was no sex, nor did she stay the night. I also fixed the meal, as I wanted to, and she sat and we talked while I did.
2.50 a gallon Posted December 14, 2013 Posted December 14, 2013 Red Robin I didn't realize that you were a fan Yes I have had relations with many women, and very few were LTR, most were along the lines of FWB's. I was a short skinny guy attracted to women who are taller than me, and most women want a permanent man to be taller than them, so all they wanted was the sex. As for my current GF, I barely knew her, only knew her first name, and that she was in love with and was living with a guy who looked like Steven Segal. She had married at and early age, and once divorced was working two and three jobs, to pay for her kids, so did not have time to date, so when they temporarily broke up she saw it as a chance to finally get in the dating game she had missed out on. All of her previous partners had been 6 footers, and chose me to be her first FWB as I was short and skinny, so I would not crush her. Had I not come thru on the third date, she had plenty of other offers and would have gone out with someone else. That never happened Just goes to show that there is hope for us short skinny guys with the hot ladies.
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