Sometimes feel like shes getting off to easy....

[HurtHalo79]

Wanting to make your wife feel a scintilla of the pain you are feeling it natural mate, I am there right now.

 

My first reaction everytime she wants a hug is to recoil in disgust....and sometimes I just stand there motionless staring into the middle distance while she drapes herself around me....and I only found out a month ago.

 

Don't be too hard on her mate, there seems to be a fine line between normal anger and a risk of making them just give up.

[whichwayisup]

Stop holding in your emotions. Your wife has to see your anger, sadness, devastation, disappointment etc.. Talk it out in MC and also with her. Communication right now is so important. She has to 'get' what she's done to you and be able to sit and listen to you and NOT make it about her (aka, I'm a loser, you must hate me, etc..etc..) She has to continue to just go along with things and work hard, but also expect anger and whatever else from you at times.

 

It's good you are giving her a second chance for the sake of your child. At least if it doesn't work, you'll know you gave it your best shot.

[experiencethedevine]

Yeah she has done everything asked of her without hesitation. The OM is my stepsons father, I should say, sperm donor. She doesnt care if I out him, she told me to do it if it made me feel better. I broke her cell phone on dday. I've offered to get her another because its inconvenient at times for her not to have one and she refused. She told me to cancel her FB, which I have. I always had access to email. The only technology she has access to is her work computer where they dont allow browsing.

 

I raged at her a couple days after dday because she was taking a shower and locked the door. I needed to get into our closet and I snapped. I told her she has no privacy anymore. Doors dont get locked anymore. Shes agreed to the no privacy thing too.

 

I mean, shes done everything I've asked without hesitation. She is doing everything right in my mind to try to make it up. Obviously, even though I'm handling this better than I ever imagined, I'm still very angry, very hurt, and just saddened by the loss trust and loss of "innocence/purity" of my marriage.

 

I'm just so confused by why I feel the need to fight with her after a good day. We have a good day and I want to scream at her and say "Hey remember how you stabbed me in the back and betrayed me and the kids!" or "How did it feel screwing a weasel while the real man in your life was taking care of our kids!"....Hopefully in time the anger will subside...for right now, there is a civil war going on inside me.

 

Your reaction when days are good is entirely normal after such a traumatic event. It is a subconscious idea that if you 'allow' that good day to float by, then you must 'remind' yourself of the anguish, betrayal and devastation lest it go unnoticed and unaddressed, resulting in the 'getting away with it' feeling.

 

In other words, we must remind ourselves of the pain when things are good because we fear it will be forgotten.

 

As you make progress together, this feeling too will fade.

[Solcita2]

Dear OP,

 

I think what you mean by saying she never feared losing you because you never made her feel that I think what you mean is she took you for granted and are afraid she might do it again...

 

We don't know the details of dday, but the answer might be here... also the fact that the OM was his son's father makes it even worse...

Back in the days, I told my then bf that if we ever broke up, if he ever went back to one of his exes (two particular ones) I would hunt him down and kick his ass... even if I didn't care by that time... it wouldn't be betrayal against me, but against himself.

 

Does she fear losing you right now? Then she's not taking you for granted anymore...

Will she ever take you for granted? Maybe yes and maybe no... that's up to her... but YOU making HER afraid of losing you is NOT the answer... because it will get to a point where she would feel it's better and less hurtful to lose you than to be afraid all the time...

 

Were you open about everything you felt because of the affair? For example,if you were repulse by her having sex with someone else, did you tell her that?

Were you able to express all of that?

 

Even when she's "punishing" herself for what she's done, YOU NEED TO SPEAK OUT YOUR MIND... don't let her assume what you feel and what she made you go through... SHE HAS TO LISTEN WHAT SHE PROVOCATED IN YOU. And YOU NEED TO OUT THAT, IN ORDER TO MOVE ON.

 

Last year, my F had a middle life crisis (he was unemployed, turning 40, and a thousand etc...) and he got "a friend". He never considered to be unfaithful because sex was not on the table, however I do believe he had an EA.

I cried, I begged him to stop, to start spending more time with me and stop helping her and nothing seemed to work.

When I was done (as I suggested you) fearing the lost of my relationship I said "**** you" and I started moving on... THAT'S WHEN EVERYTHING CHANGED.

 

However, as you, I also think he got away with it easily... because he punished himself so much that I never got a chance to openly tell him all the damaged he did.

 

I trust him, I love him, and i do believe in a future together... I could even imagine him as the father of my children, however, I just can't get over that (it's not something I have in my mind all the time, but it is something that it keeps bothering me once in a while...) and I plan to talk about it next time we meet (I'm living abraod right now).

Even when I did speak out what I was feeling at the time it was during comfrontation, a lot of screaming and crying and he was still in denial, so I do feel that everything I said is lost in the fight... so speaking out (or even writing a letter if you can't keep cool enough to speak), I think is necessary...

 

So my advice to you is to open up... she did the damage, then she has to hear exactly FROM YOU what the damage was...

 

Being taked for granted is the worst... it's HER job to make you feel you're not taked for granted...

 

Hope it helps,

Edited December 7, 2013 by Solcita2

[Oberfeldwebel]

AP22 I know this is a hard time for you and you will go through a roller coaster of emotions for several months. There is not much way around it and affects each individual differently. You do need to continue counseling, to help you come to grips with all that has happened and assist you as a family moving forward. She can be the most remorseful person in the world, but your anger is your anger. Naturally it is not your doing the events happened, but you have to come to grips with it in time.

 

There is nothing wrong with accountability, but you should apply it to both of you. That way it is not you being controlling but a marriage where you are both accountable to one another. If she doesn't want to check your phone, then so be it, but she has the same rights and privileges.

 

It is true that you can attract more with honey than vinegar, you need to learn to control the inevitable periods of anger. One way is through exercise, it will help relieve the stress and make a healthier you. This time of year can be used for healing in planning holiday events in your community. Also helping those in need as a family to take the focus off of you and help others in the process. I believe that most relationships can be saved....IF.....we work hard to make it work and I think your family is committed to make that happen.

[sidney2718]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I know i'm not tolerating it by staying, but I had such a hard line stance on cheating my entire life. I can proudly say I have never cheated in any of my relationships. Its just something I will not do. When you life by something your whole life, and then you dont follow through, it kind of feels like you are betraying yourself.

 

Wisdom comes with age. You drew your hard line before you really knew of the pain and agony infidelity generates for everyone, even your daughter.

 

As far as staying, I'm doing it for my daughter in terms of why I am staying initially. My first instinct was to leave and get divorced. Had I left that night, I would have stayed gone. So I stayed living at home because of my daughter and now I think this can be salvaged. Shes the mother of my children and that alone makes me want to work this out. Truth be told, if she did finally come out and see the error of her ways, and this "new and improved" attitude is real and long lasting, then I can see me being happy with her again. It will never be the same, but I can still end up happy with her and keep our family together.

At first you focused on the infidelity and were driven by anger. Then you focused on what your actions would do to your daughter -- that came from love of an innocent person. And then you came to recognize that there was still emotion between you and your wife. That came from love.

 

I think you have already been through the major emotions. You most likely will now roller coaster as first one impulse and then another boils over. My feeling is that, no matter what, do not act quickly, especially if things go downhill a bit (they will -- it is a rough road). Take your time.

 

At the same time you have to offer your wife hope and encouragement. You can't expect her to change you as well as changing yourself. I am not suggesting sweeping everything under the rug. I am suggesting a bit of encouragement now and then and the giving of some recognition to reinforce changes in her that you feel are appropriate.

 

However, I am fully prepared to drop her in an instant if this is just temporary until she feels safe again. So I'll go about my business, try to keep things good between us, but i've prepared myself for the worst.

That's a good attitude. And good luck man, you are taking off on a long journey, but one which, if successful, will change you and your wife both for the better.

[MasonJarTeaDrinker]

I think it's normal but it's still very soon so you're entitled to feel angry. Just keep in mind that you can't be like this forever so if you decided to forgive her than eventually you are going to have to get over it and stop feeling this way.

 

However it's still soon so it's ok to just let it our and make her feel bad I guess but if you feel that you are always going to be angry then it's probably better to just get a divorce.

[JustJoe]

Personally, I think that if you, as a BS, do NOT feel anger, you are in greater danger of "letting the WS off the hook". The anger is a justified expression of self defense and an outlet must be found. If you would look at some of the websites devoted to recovery after infidelity, you will find that almost all of them advocate some form of punishment or restitution for the WS, and that (non abusive) rage/anger expressed by the BS should be tolerated by the WS as part of this.

[Ap22]

Personally, I think that if you, as a BS, do NOT feel anger, you are in greater danger of "letting the WS off the hook". The anger is a justified expression of self defense and an outlet must be found. If you would look at some of the websites devoted to recovery after infidelity, you will find that almost all of them advocate some form of punishment or restitution for the WS, and that (non abusive) rage/anger expressed by the BS should be tolerated by the WS as part of this.

 

 

Dont get me wrong....I'm very angry....I'm pissed at the world right now. The past couple of days have not been very good because I was pissed off. I almost packed up and left Sunday over the smallest thing. To her credit, my wife has taken it like a champ when I get mad at her. She told the MC that she wants me to be mad at her because it shows I still care about her. Its when I'm reserved, quiet, and emotionless that she gets really scared.

 

I guess the whole point of why I made this thread can be summed up by our Saturday. We spent the whole day together with the kids. It was an absolutely fantastic day. You would never be able to tell by looking at us that 2 weeks ago I found out my wife cheated on me.

 

So heres the kicker and my struggle. I know she is feeling great that she still has me. Every touch, kiss, and hug fills her with happiness. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here thinking yeah this is fantastic, if only she hadnt slept with another man. Regardless of how great the day was, I see it as her being incredibly happy for having a second chance and me having to walk around with a dark and treacherous cloud over my head that keeps me from feeling that happiness.

[JustJoe]

After my Father allowed my Mom to come home, for 2 years he treated her like the maid. she slept in the spare room and he did what he wanted to do (drinking and womanizing). In those two years, I do not remember him saying a single nice thing to her, and we kids were (to varying degrees) not very respectful. I think he acted that way to see how truly remorseful she really was, and to prove that she would not leave again, no matter how tough it was. She had to earn her way back into the family, so to speak. So your expressions of anger can be used by BOTH of you as an expression of renewed commitment.

[Ap22]

About the only thing I've changed is that I dont do all the little things for her I used to. I really dont do much for her at all anymore while she trys to do everything.

 

I had to tell her last night that I need a wife, not a mother. Shes waiting on me hand and foot eager to do any task I want. Shes trying to be my slave and thats not what I want/need.

 

I guess what it all boils down to is I'm afraid that she is going to feel like I gave her a free pass on this.

[ClemsonTigers]

After my Father allowed my Mom to come home, for 2 years he treated her like the maid. she slept in the spare room and he did what he wanted to do (drinking and womanizing). In those two years, I do not remember him saying a single nice thing to her, and we kids were (to varying degrees) not very respectful. I think he acted that way to see how truly remorseful she really was, and to prove that she would not leave again, no matter how tough it was. She had to earn her way back into the family, so to speak. So your expressions of anger can be used by BOTH of you as an expression of renewed commitment.

 

 

Is this supposed to be a good story about recovery? We usually agree on stuff but I'm not on board with this "they must be punished" and "anger is an expression of commitment" angle.

 

I think Ap wants a loving wife, not an obedient one.

 

Righteous anger is good thing while fighting an active affair but you are beyond that know (though still keeping your eyes open for any renewed contact). Ap seems to be in they hysterical bonding stage and moving towards reconciliation. There are crap sandwiches to eat. It's not fair. But the most common solution to "fairness" is going out and having your own extra-marital affair but that doesn't accomplish making anyone feel better.

 

As a BS in early recovery it's really tough to be the Judge, Jury and the Victim. I released my wife of "punishment". She was free to go or stay. I just wanted truth and reconciliation. (timely enough this is not unlike the Truth Commissions President Mandela set up in South Africa with Desmond Tutu when the ANC's took power in the 1990's. They felt justice and retribution were too difficult to obtain and the best way to resolve past conflicts was by getting the full and absolute truth that they otherwise would have never received).

 

The more loving and forgiving you are…the more the WS will eventually punish themselves because they love the crap out of you. It hurts them to think what they did to you. If you want your wife to love you…be loving. if you want your wife to be vulnerable towards you…be vulnerable towards her. In contrast, if you want you wife to be obedient, punish her with anger….especially unpredictable anger…they love that and eventually, through resentment after trying to please you and do everything for so long, will feel glad they had their moment of fun in the sun with OM. You'll have accomplished justifying it for them.

[Ap22]

Is this supposed to be a good story about recovery? We usually agree on stuff but I'm not on board with this "they must be punished" and "anger is an expression of commitment" angle.

 

I think Ap wants a loving wife, not an obedient one.

 

Righteous anger is good thing while fighting an active affair but you are beyond that know (though still keeping your eyes open for any renewed contact). Ap seems to be in they hysterical bonding stage and moving towards reconciliation. There are crap sandwiches to eat. It's not fair. But the most common solution to "fairness" is going out and having your own extra-marital affair but that doesn't accomplish making anyone feel better.

 

As a BS in early recovery it's really tough to be the Judge, Jury and the Victim. I released my wife of "punishment". She was free to go or stay. I just wanted truth and reconciliation. (timely enough this is not unlike the Truth Commissions President Mandela set up in South Africa with Desmond Tutu when the ANC's took power in the 1990's. They felt justice and retribution were too difficult to obtain and the best way to resolve past conflicts was by getting the full and absolute truth that they otherwise would have never received).

 

The more loving and forgiving you are…the more the WS will eventually punish themselves because they love the crap out of you. It hurts them to think what they did to you. If you want your wife to love you…be loving. if you want your wife to be vulnerable towards you…be vulnerable towards her. In contrast, if you want you wife to be obedient, punish her with anger….especially unpredictable anger…they love that and eventually, through resentment after trying to please you and do everything for so long, will feel glad they had their moment of fun in the sun with OM. You'll have accomplished justifying it for them.

 

I try to be loving and have done a pretty good job all things considered. I just hate that when she hugs me, part of me wants to hug her back while the other is yelling at me for doing it.

 

I have my moments of "weakness" where I fully absorb what she did and I do get angry at her. However once I get it off my chest I feel much better and, to be honest, having her there makes me feel better.

 

There is a huge part of me that wants to punish her for whats shes done. Make her suffer and feel my pain. I keep that part of me in check though. I even told her a couple weeks ago not to confuse what is going on. I told her I would put on a happy face and try to reconnect with her. I told her even though I may look happy, even though we are having amazing sex, even though these have actually been some of the best times we've spent together.....not to forget that part of it is an act. Its me putting aside what she did for the greater good of our family. I dont want her to forget that no matter what, i walk around with a cloud of doom and gloom over my head. I cant escape it and I cant forget about it, at least for the near future.

[Fluttershy]

^^with clemson^

Who would you rather stay with?

A. A spouse who is afraid to cheat because they may lose their comfy life

B. A spouse who sees how terrible their actions were, carries that regret with them, and would rather jump off a bridge than be that person again?

[ClemsonTigers]

I'm afraid that she is going to feel like I gave her a free pass on this.

 

Affairs aren't fun. They are destructive and soul-sucking. Nobody gets or wants a "free pass". ]

 

 

Your house is falling apart. Your wife destroyed it MOSTLY by herself. Do you help her rebuild it or is it a better idea to sit in the basement sulking about your lot in life and making her rebuild it? If she rebuilds it by herself (as her punishment)…how sturdy do you think it's gonna turn out?

 

I'm almost 20 years out from my wife's affair. My wife feels worse today about her affair than I do. In fact, she and I work together side by side helping other couples over come infidelity and other marital issues nearly every day. Eventually I hope you two can come to a point of releasing the shame and fear. Every married couple has their struggles at some point in time and it's how the two of you work together to overcome these struggles that matters most. Consider this practice for the days when it'll get even tougher, God forbid.

[Ap22]

I hear you. As long as she is being truthful and actually becomes the person she says she wants to be, I see us being together and happy again.

 

This thread was mostly about my internal struggle. Thats the hard part for me to deal with. Its hard to want to love someone and strangle them at the same time.

 

Trust me, I'm not punishing her at all. I'm doing everything I can to love her and heal this marriage. Like I said, I have my moments where the anger takes over and I let it out, but its at a level anyone would consider appropriate considering what happened.

 

Again, this is all about my internal struggle, not so much how I am actually treating her.

[ClemsonTigers]

I hear you. As long as she is being truthful and actually becomes the person she says she wants to be, I see us being together and happy again.

 

This thread was mostly about my internal struggle. Thats the hard part for me to deal with. Its hard to want to love someone and strangle them at the same time.

 

Trust me, I'm not punishing her at all. I'm doing everything I can to love her and heal this marriage. Like I said, I have my moments where the anger takes over and I let it out, but its at a level anyone would consider appropriate considering what happened.

 

Again, this is all about my internal struggle, not so much how I am actually treating her.

 

I hear you….just encouraging you. I think you are doing a great job. In time, when I felt safer my wife actually understood and helped me with my "internal" struggles. Your reactions are normal and there are tough days ahead. We often see an betrayed husband go into an anger phase in the 6 - 9 months range after D-day. You're running on a lot of adreneline right now…and the fear of loss is causing your logic centers are work overtime trying to figure this life puzzle out. When the shock subsides and the battle grows weary…resentment and anger often bubble up. Others experience depression and even PTSD. Soooo…moving forward….your wife can be an accountability partner for you keeping an eye on your emotions and understanding them as well.

[JustJoe]

Is this supposed to be a good story about recovery? We usually agree on stuff but I'm not on board with this "they must be punished" and "anger is an expression of commitment" angle.

 

I think Ap wants a loving wife, not an obedient one.

 

Righteous anger is good thing while fighting an active affair but you are beyond that know (though still keeping your eyes open for any renewed contact). Ap seems to be in they hysterical bonding stage and moving towards reconciliation. There are crap sandwiches to eat. It's not fair. But the most common solution to "fairness" is going out and having your own extra-marital affair but that doesn't accomplish making anyone feel better.

 

As a BS in early recovery it's really tough to be the Judge, Jury and the Victim. I released my wife of "punishment". She was free to go or stay. I just wanted truth and reconciliation. (timely enough this is not unlike the Truth Commissions President Mandela set up in South Africa with Desmond Tutu when the ANC's took power in the 1990's. They felt justice and retribution were too difficult to obtain and the best way to resolve past conflicts was by getting the full and absolute truth that they otherwise would have never received).

 

The more loving and forgiving you are…the more the WS will eventually punish themselves because they love the crap out of you. It hurts them to think what they did to you. If you want your wife to love you…be loving. if you want your wife to be vulnerable towards you…be vulnerable towards her. In contrast, if you want you wife to be obedient, punish her with anger….especially unpredictable anger…they love that and eventually, through resentment after trying to please you and do everything for so long, will feel glad they had their moment of fun in the sun with OM. You'll have accomplished justifying it for them.

I agree up to a point, but you also must take into consideration the damage done to the BS and the kids. My Dad allowed my Mom back because she was the mother of his children, and for no other reason. It took 2 years for him to get over her betrayal, and during that time he was not able to show any loving behavior to somebody who was (to him) a stranger. Remember that she abandoned the family while he was overseas. She left us kids with my Aunt and Uncle until she and the OM tried to make a "New" family combining us kids with the OM's kids. My Dad, in all that time, never said a harsh word to her, never abused her , in any way. IDK if you know my story but it is here on LS somewhere. Also, this was when Adultery was a crime, so if my Dad had wanted to punish her he could have, easily, as there were plenty of witnesses .

Sorry, OP for the TJ. I am just trying to explain that some type of punishment or restitution is usually recommended by most Infidelity websites, to allow the BS to have an outlet for his/her anger, and to allow the WS to show their remorse. To say that WS's are universally repentant and racked with guilt is silly. Some WS's are remorseful just because of the

nature of their offense, but others need to have concrete consequences, in order for them to get out of the fog, and face their responsibilities.

BTW, my Mom and Dad remained married for the rest of their lives.

Edited December 10, 2013 by JustJoe

[JustJoe]

^^with clemson^

Who would you rather stay with?

A. A spouse who is afraid to cheat because they may lose their comfy life

B. A spouse who sees how terrible their actions were, carries that regret with them, and would rather jump off a bridge than be that person again?

To assume that all WS's are remorseful and raced with guilt is foolish. Forgiveness without consequences is an almost certain recipe for failure.

[Fluttershy]

To assume that all WS's are remorseful and raced with guilt is foolish. Forgiveness without consequences is an almost certain recipe for failure.

 

Im not talking about no consequences but your use of the word "punishment". That is why I have encouraged laying down a hard line. But if a wayward requires continual punishing or a long time to get out of the fog, tr BS is better to do the 180.

Just because a bs doesn't "punish" their ws doesn't mean they are offering cheap forgiveness.

[JustJoe]

Did anybody advocate continual punishment? I certainly didn't. I clearly said punishment or restitution, didn't I? Why are you taking one word out of my posts and not trying to understand the total. It sounds like you are trying to cause trouble. Stick to the point. If you really read my posts, you will find that what my Dad did, was quite a bit like the 180. He treated Mom politely but indifferently, did his own thing, (I didn't agree with his drinking ) and she could stay or leave as she chose, but if she stayed she would abide by the rules (boundaries). she chose to stay, proved her remorse, and became a great wife and mother. So where is the issue? you seem to have? Yes, it was for 2 years, but that is low end for affair recovery, and is not continual by any means. You are creating an issue where none exists.

[Fluttershy]

Did anybody advocate continual punishment? I certainly didn't. I clearly said punishment or restitution, didn't I? Why are you taking one word out of my posts and not trying to understand the total. It sounds like you are trying to cause trouble. Stick to the point. If you really read my posts, you will find that what my Dad did, was quite a bit like the 180. He treated Mom politely but indifferently, did his own thing, (I didn't agree with his drinking ) and she could stay or leave as she chose, but if she stayed she would abide by the rules (boundaries). she chose to stay, proved her remorse, and became a great wife and mother. So where is the issue? you seem to have? Yes, it was for 2 years, but that is low end for affair recovery, and is not continual by any means. You are creating an issue where none exists.

Words create a picture and punishment and consequences give two seperate ideas. But its really okay, our views just differ, so you can untwist your panties as it is a very common thing on here. The message I took from your posts was that your dad "punished" your mother for two years. And that you thought it was a good thing. Recovery does take a long time but while it may have worked in your dad's case I'd never encourage any BS to "punish" their WS for two years. Yeah she had the freedom to leave (and lose everything probably) but your dad could have left as well. What you describe is cruel (treating her like a maid and womanizing). And to say she Chose to stay made it okay is like saying a battered spouse who stays means the abuser isn't doing anything wrong. Sorry, i disagree.

[JustJoe]

The message you took from my post was an incorrect one, as sometimes happens to people with limited understanding. You have fixated on the word "punish' to the exclusion of every other thing. Perhaps you should learn to improve your cognitive skills?

I apologize to the OP for this threadjack. But I would not be doing any good while people misinterpret my posts. I will refrain from bantering with "Fluttershy " and just say that for the peace of mind of the BS and to help to assuage the feelings of guilt of the WS, Some form of "punishment" "restitution", or "consequences" are a necessary part of any reconciliation. This thread is about the feeling of the BS that perhaps the WS "got off easy". This will not happen as long as the WS faces some form of comeuppance (LOL) instituted by the BS. Self punishment is like Industrial self regulation, it is almost universally unsuccessful.