we started dating, and he's not over his ex... run?

[ana0pera]

long story short, i met this wonderful guy and i talk to him nearly every minute of everyday even though it took a while to schedule a second date it finally happened and was awesome. he alluded to having "issues" before the second date and he wasn't comfortable talking about it at the time. he asked me out on a third date earlier this week, to which i said yes, and wanted to talk tonight, i assumed just to hear my lovely voice lol.

 

i was wrong. his issues were eating away at him and he wanted to talk about relationships, communication, etc and this eventually got us on the topic of his issues. he is not completely over his ex. it's been ~6 months and it was a pretty short relationship so he feels stupid and guilty about it. I empathize with him because it took me forever to get over my ex. But it also hurts because I have some issues of my own that I am working on (we discussed this) regarding my unnatural ability to attract guys who treat me as a 2nd priority/2nd choice. I think this goes way back to my dad but that's an entirely different story, one we didn't talk about.

 

It was very hard for him to tell me this and i am very proud of him for getting it off his chest but it is one of those times where the truth does hurt, i was kind of expecting this was his issue but it still hurts. I really like him, his honesty, and the fact that he wants to get over her but it still hurts me and now i am rethinking this entire thing. i want to break this cycle and be with someone who wants to be with me and puts his energy into that. maybe it just takes time and i should give him that? or should i just run? i am so hurt and confused, he is very apologetic and doesn't want me to get hurt and wants me to be comfortable... i am very glad that he was open with me and i feel like dumping him for telling the truth sends the wrong message. but i also need to guard my heart. i do like him a lot and he has been very attentive to my needs too despite this whole issue of his.

 

does anyone have any advice, i could really use some insight from others.

[writergal]

Run. You're just going to be his rebound. When a guy (or gal for that matter) tells you upfront that they're still getting over their ex, that means: they are not emotionally available and are in no condition to date you.

 

I get that you like the attention this guy's doting you with, but it's not good attention. He's needy, and he wants you to be his fall-girl, so that he can use your companionship and emotional support to help him get over his ex-girlfriend. He has no intention of meeting your emotional needs nor is he probably capable of doing that for you right now. That won't stop him from wanting to get intimate with you either. Sex is something men do like breathing. They don't need to be fully recovered from their previous relationship before they can have sex with another woman. To borrow from Lady Gaga, men are just born that way. And they can come across as jerks because of that kind of behavior.

 

If you know that you attract men who treat you as 2nd-fiddle, then BINGO you have attracted yet another guy who fits that mold, in this guy you describe. If you know you deserve to be treated as a priority, then you also need to take action and stop things before they start when you recognize that you're with the wrong type of guy. And this guy is the wrong type of guy for you.

 

But, if you don't mind taking on the role of rescuer for this guy, and being 2nd-fiddle (again), then full steam ahead. But the downside for you, (as you probably know from previous 2nd-fiddle experiences) will be that he won't meet your emotional needs, because he's still nursing his own emotional wounds, so you won't be a priority for him. Period.

 

What I think: He's manipulating you right now, by dumping his "woe is me" tale on you, in the hopes that you'll be his shoulder to cry on, and excuse any bad behavior from him (from little things like not calling you when he says he will, to big things like not being honest with you about his intentions or feelings).

 

Do yourself a favor. Break it off now and make yourself available for a guy who isn't just getting over a breakup. That is, if you don't want to be in a rebound relationship. If you don't mind being the transitional rebound, then I think that's all this guy has to offer you. If it were me, I'd run for the hills!

Edited December 4, 2013 by writergal

[ana0pera]

you are right, writergal, as much as i wish you weren't, as much as i want to qualify every action, you are right, and it sucks.

 

i really just don't understand why and how i am attracting these guys. i am successful, smart, calm, attractive, and my self-esteem is relatively stable–it has definitely gotten higher over the summer and i have been so happy lately. but of all my friends, many of whom have really low self-esteem, i am the one that has the super dramatic dating life comprised of losers. i don't know what i am doing to attract these guys, and it's not like i am picking them over other men.

 

he seemed so different from other guys and i have never felt like 2nd fiddle with him, in person or when we're apart, he always has time for me and we talk for hours. but he still isn't over this girl, even though we've gotten pretty close, and that's what hurts.

[writergal]

you are right, writergal, as much as i wish you weren't, as much as i want to qualify every action, you are right, and it sucks.

 

i really just don't understand why and how i am attracting these guys. i am successful, smart, calm, attractive, and my self-esteem is relatively stable–it has definitely gotten higher over the summer and i have been so happy lately. but of all my friends, many of whom have really low self-esteem, i am the one that has the super dramatic dating life comprised of losers. i don't know what i am doing to attract these guys, and it's not like i am picking them over other men.

 

he seemed so different from other guys and i have never felt like 2nd fiddle with him, in person or when we're apart, he always has time for me and we talk for hours. but he still isn't over this girl, even though we've gotten pretty close, and that's what hurts.

 

Pay attention to what you wrote that I bolded. That's the reason you need to break it off with this guy, otherwise he'll just hurt you in the long run. You know he will, because you wrote it.

 

Doesn't matter that you've "gotten pretty close." Like I said, men are capable of charm and sexing it up with women they aren't emotionally attached to. Women can do that to, but I'm pointing out the obvious to you, I think.

 

If you continue to attract emotionally unavailable men, then it is directly tied to your self esteem being low. I know that may be difficult to hear, but men who are narcissists prey on women like you because they know they can manipulate you. And unfortunately it's a pattern -- the low-self worth attracts an emotionally unavailable narcissist. I speak from personal experience. It took me a long time to recognize the pattern and my role in it, before I could break that pattern.

 

I think this is a good article about why the pattern exists and what women can do to break the pattern: switch your focus to yourself, to building up your own self esteem. Then, you'll naturally attract and be attracted to men with health self esteem who aren't narcissists. Easier said than done, though, unfortunately.

 

At least you recognized deep down that this guy wasn't a good choice. Awareness is the first step towards change. Read up on self esteem and emotional unavailability and figure out how to tweak your focus so its back on yourself instead of on the guy. I think you'll see a huge shift in who you attract and are attracted to. But it will take a lot of effort on your part not to fall for every emotionally unavailable guy you encounter. They tend to disguise themselves as charmers, and will make you feel like the center of their universe as a way to bait and hook you, so that you give away your power and are focused on making him like you, which is a futile endeavor in the long run. You may think you've gotten close but you haven't. He's not over "her" yet, so he can't be into you (truly) until he's emotionally available.

 

And dumping him now doesn't send the wrong message. It sends him the message that you have boundaries, and that you deserve to be with a guy who is emotionally ready to be dating and make you a true priority. It sends the message that you have high self esteem. Who cares what he thinks if you dump him. If you do care and use that as an excuse to continue seeing him because you like his attention, then you're putting his needs before your own and chasing him, essentially. Don't do that. Put your own needs before his. Shakespeare wrote: to thine own self be true. He did not write: don't dump a guy you know is bad for you because that's just mean to the guy.

Edited December 4, 2013 by writergal

[SincereOnlineGuy]

This is all a function of the very natural and normal want for making emotional investments in other people.

 

That's what all of the good, well-adjusted people do, and that is precisely why, in most cases where it is possible, the healthfully invested person goes back to the one in whom he/she has invested the most, at the point of the decision.

 

His being previously invested in the past girlfriend isn't a 'bad' thing... but timing dictates so much with regard to the various possible outcomes.

 

If one were centrally focused on landing this ONE guy, in the near future, her very best approach would probably be to let some time pass beFORE one makes the major approach/outward-declaration (to him).

 

Only with that time, would the guy's perceived emotional investment in (the past girlfriend) be reduced sufficiently so that a seeming newcomer could stand a decent chance on a 'teeter-totter' that is more favorably balanced.

 

The idea of somebody still being (invested in) a former partner is far too often seen as a character flaw of some type, when it is nothing of the sort. For the traits that found him invested in somebody else are exactly those traits one wants in a partner she finds anywhere even if he's a virginal Kevin Arnold-like innocent.

 

The things that goes awry most often is that somebody goes all-in too early while pursuing another, romantically, and either faces the occasional 'choice' afforded the pursuee (and usually exercised based on relative emotional investment )... or lands with someone who is at the time presently incapable OF going all-in with them, because there is still so much invested in the previous partner.

 

(this is doubly complex when one is in pursuit of a socially sought-after partner, whose dating life is like a merry-go-round) (where it takes small miracles just to time it so one can ever get on the ride, so to speak, let alone pass-up opportunities and expect another chance on the same ride)

 

 

Yet it just isn't wrong when somebody IS considerably invested elsewhere.

 

 

Most won't even consider such blasphemy, but so much of love is like sexually pleasuring yourself! Most of your feelings and rewards arrive courtesy of yourself as you do little more than trust and predict/anticipate the role of your partner(s). Your partner doesn't reeeeeeeeeeeally sit there and give you your orgasms (as might that fairy who waves a magic wand in cartoons)... {instead} Youuuuuuuu work toward your own orgasm, doing not much more than trusting and anticipating your partner along the way.

 

It's the trust, and the vulnerability expressed in the process which is most of the bonding. And somebody who has some of his/her investment tied-up elsewhere, just isn't able to go as deeply (into trust and vulnerability) as might another person.

 

Most women have enough alternatives that they can typically afford to let somebody pass, merely for the sake of timing... but it's still another form of pleasuring yourself when instead opting to make a bit of a project out of one specific interest and try to wait him out.

[d0nnivain]

You don't have to run but you do need to take a giant step back & guard your heart. You can still see him & hang out with him but don't date him exclusively. He's not emotionally available.

[ana0pera]

His being previously invested in the past girlfriend isn't a 'bad' thing... but timing dictates so much with regard to the various possible outcomes.

 

So much of this does boil down to timing. I went and read up a bit on emotional unavailability and the descriptions do NOT fit him really at all, they fit my exes perfectly and it took me forever to realize that, but he is really enigmatic because he doesn't really have any of those characteristics. The only characteristic he has is that he still thinks about his ex sometimes and he thought he was over her, but realizes he's not because he still thinks about her. That is the only thing on the list I can check off and it's obviously a big one but otherwise he has made himself very available to me. In some ways this news is making me more emotionally unavailable to him lol.

 

It's like the right guy at the wrong time, i see so many characteristics in him that i like and there is this one flaw, a bruise that will clear up with time, but who knows how long it's going to take, and what the recovery is going to be like? and do i want to wait it out?

 

I am still planning to see him this weekend but with a guarded heart and there is going to be absolutely nothing physical, i don't even think i can kiss him anymore at this point. I want to evaluate the situation and see how bad it is and then figure out what to do. I need to see how unavailable he is emotionally and how messed up he is from this girl. I am not going to fix him, I am done trying to fix others because I just end up broken, but I am curious to see if this is just like a 24-hour bug or a true train wreck. I can weather a 24-hour bug because I wanted us to slow down anyway. But a train wreck is too much for someone I am not committed to and who is not committed to me, even if i do like him a lot.

 

I told him that because of my history, I will not consider a relationship with him if I am not a priority. It felt really good to make that proclamation and state my boundaries, I just need to follow through. for my own sanity I am going to put a deadline on hanging out with him and if there hasn't been progress/i end up getting closer to someone else, I will call it quits with him.

[spiderowl]

I would say see him as a friend but invest romance in others instead. If he's not over his ex, don't assume it will happen with time if you are with him. It might, but if it doesn't, you will be hurt. There's no point making a guy such an important part of your life if he's just hoping his ex will notice him again.

[Forever Learning]

I love this thread!

 

 

I agree with Writer Gal: RUN!

 

Life is too short. Find a guy without these issues. Simple as that.

[StanMusial]

Check baggage at door.

[ana0pera]

I would say see him as a friend but invest romance in others instead. If he's not over his ex, don't assume it will happen with time if you are with him. It might, but if it doesn't, you will be hurt. There's no point making a guy such an important part of your life if he's just hoping his ex will notice him again.

 

He's being put into the friendzone for my own sanity, and for my own sanity I think I am taking a dating hiatus because I've met too many crazies since I've been single, and my ex was also a crazy, and the guys before him were crazies... what does this say about me?!?!?! :lmao: I need to work on myself though and yeah I want to be in a relationship but I am starting to realize that I am also not ready for a relationship in some ways.

 

I was going to say, when I mentioned the possibility of him getting back with her to him, he said he doesn't perk up at the idea and sees it being highly unrealistic; we interpreted that as progress, but now that I think about it more, if she were to just call him tomorrow and want to try again, would he say yes? or no? that's what i need the answer to.

 

I empathize with him because it took me forever to get over my ex (~9 months, it was like having a baby hahaha!) and whenever I was dating other guys I would think about him and how I missed him, wish I were still with him, etc. It was hard to heal but I found putting myself out there meeting other people did help.

 

I don't think I was using them but maybe I was... I didn't really click with any of those guys though or there were other issues (like distance), so I thought about my ex a lot. There was one guy I went out with a bit before I left his country who made me realize that I deserve better than my ex and I can get better than my ex but once I got back home I started to miss my ex again. This is the first time since June that I don't miss my ex, and it's definitely because I click with this guy. Like if my ex were to call today and ask me to go out with him or tell me he misses me, I would just ignore it. If this happened in June when I was enamored with a gorgeous intelligent European model I might've just waved my "upgrade" in his face, in July (when I wasn't seeing anyone) or August (when I was seeing someone, not the current guy) I would've jumped at the opportunity, but now I would be emotionless and ignore it. It has a lot to do with how I click with this new guy.

 

This is what I'm thinking... I think I can continue being his friend, getting to know him and enjoying our hobbies in a platonic way (this is good for me because I am trying to make more friends anyway) but if I see myself getting more invested romantically I need to pull back or just end it, depending on how bad it is. I need to see him making romantic investments before I start making any, to protect my heart. I can't and will not enter a relationship with him until I know that he has no interest or hope in getting back with her. Here's why:

 

I read this article about a woman who was exclusive with a guy for a few months who was still getting over his ex, the ex resurfaced and wanted to get back together, so he dumped his new gf but a few weeks later was back crying on her shoulder because it didn't work out with his ex. they ended up getting married (the second gf and him) and the whole thing sounds horrifying to me, including the marriage. she said it was worth it but it must've been so painful to get dumped like that and I can't imagine myself going through that without a few bottles of wine and some antidepressant. And that doesn't sound appealing to me at all so I can't let that happen.

[writergal]

Do you watch Sex and the City? In one episode, the lawyer Miranda runs into her on-again-off-again boyfriend Skipper and gets jealous when she sees that he's moved on with a new girlfriend. In that episode, she actually calls Skipper up while Skipper's having sex with his new girlfriend. He stops in the middle of sex to answer her call (he hears her voice on his answering machine), and breaks up with his girlfriend RIGHT THEN AND THERE to go back to Miranda, who just called Skiper for a booty call. Once Skipper and Miranda have sex, Miranda lets Skipper down AGAIN, telling him she was just horny and wanted sex with him. So, he gets mad and leaves, and he's single. Again.

 

I see you as the Skipper in your scenario, and you're being enticed by a Miranda-type in this guy, who will drop you like a hot potato the minute his ex girlfriend calls him to get back together (or so he thinks).

 

Save yourself a heartbreaking episode Skipper. Dump this Miranda. Send him to the Friend Zone where he can hang out with Loki from the Avengers.

[ana0pera]

hahahaha writergal I love you!!

[writergal]

Hehehe! Glad you liked that last post. Your situation totally reminded me of that SATC episode (yes, I am a SATC junkie, always will be).

 

Run Skipper! Run! lol!

[aussietigerwolf]

Do you watch Sex and the City? In one episode, the lawyer Miranda runs into her on-again-off-again boyfriend Skipper and gets jealous when she sees that he's moved on with a new girlfriend. In that episode, she actually calls Skipper up while Skipper's having sex with his new girlfriend. He stops in the middle of sex to answer her call (he hears her voice on his answering machine), and breaks up with his girlfriend RIGHT THEN AND THERE to go back to Miranda, who just called Skiper for a booty call. Once Skipper and Miranda have sex, Miranda lets Skipper down AGAIN, telling him she was just horny and wanted sex with him. So, he gets mad and leaves, and he's single. Again.

 

I see you as the Skipper in your scenario, and you're being enticed by a Miranda-type in this guy, who will drop you like a hot potato the minute his ex girlfriend calls him to get back together (or so he thinks).

 

Save yourself a heartbreaking episode Skipper. Dump this Miranda. Send him to the Friend Zone where he can hang out with Loki from the Avengers.

 

while I don't actually like sex and the city, I totally agree with scenario. the guy will drop you like a hot potato the instant he thinks his ex is interested.

 

I've even had that happen to me and once it didn't work out with his ex (again...) he had the nerve to be shocked when I wouldn't take him back. *rolls eyes* I am nobodies second choice...

[SincereOnlineGuy]

there is this one flaw

 

 

Nooooooooooooo-oooooooooooooooooooo, there isn't!

 

 

To say that is akin to deciding that blue eyes are "a flaw".

 

 

(they most certainly are not)

[writergal]

while I don't actually like sex and the city, I totally agree with scenario. the guy will drop you like a hot potato the instant he thinks his ex is interested.

 

I've even had that happen to me and once it didn't work out with his ex (again...) he had the nerve to be shocked when I wouldn't take him back. *rolls eyes* I am nobodies second choice...

 

Darn tootin'!

 

SATC isn't everyone's cup of tea, so I get it.

 

This same scenario happened to me in high school, college, and post-college with guys so it unfortunately is a reality. It's no fun. Sorry to hear that happened to you as well.

[aussietigerwolf]

Darn tootin'!

 

SATC isn't everyone's cup of tea, so I get it.

 

This same scenario happened to me in high school, college, and post-college with guys so it unfortunately is a reality. It's no fun. Sorry to hear that happened to you as well.

 

thanks but it was his loss. I met my prince a few months after that so all for the best, for me anyway lol.

[aussietigerwolf]

op, while I'd actually advise running for the hills... if you REALLY don't want to then warn him that you are no one's second choice (and actually mean it) in the nicest but firmest way you can.

[ana0pera]

op, while I'd actually advise running for the hills... if you REALLY don't want to then warn him that you are no one's second choice (and actually mean it) in the nicest but firmest way you can.

 

I have a plan. Last night I told him about my history and how I refuse to settle so he knows where I'm coming from and he knows that I don't like being an option versus a priority, so I told him we're taking it slow. And more than ever I am sick of this and want a guy who will invest in me as much as I would invest in him, because not to brag, but I am pretty darn awesome.

 

When I see him this weekend I am going to sit him down and clearly lay out what slow means. I equate "slow" with friends. We were moving pretty fast before I knew about this whole ex thing and I could've easily seen us becoming exclusive before the end of the year. That's not going to happen. I want us to get to know each other as friends first and that will also give us both time to heal and really think if we'd want to take our friendship to another level. That was sort of our intent anyway when we first decided to meet, but our chemistry was amazing at the first date so that plan went out of the roof. I am going to talk to him less each day, because right now we're falling asleep on the phone with each other every night of the week.

 

I want him to really think about how he feels about his ex...if she were to call him today would he be ready to say goodbye for good? I want him to ask himself this question, not in the context of me, but for himself. I don't want him to report back to me with the answer, I just want him to think about it. I don't want him to even think about starting something serious with me until he can say goodbye to her for good.

 

I am going to give him until the beginning of March. This seems like a long time but I am leaving for a 3 week holiday starting next week, and I am also going to be gone for most of the month of February. The time apart, especially in February (I will not have internet or phone access so I wont be talking to him at all) will be good for us to evaluate how we feel about each other...as friends, as potential partners, etc. Do we miss each other, and if so, why?

 

A number of things could happen before then that would cause us to end it or advance forward, but if in March we're closer (friends who want more) or I feel like I want to be closer to him, but he still isn't over her I am going to end it.

 

I will not tell him about the deadline, because I don't want him to be panicking or rushing to figure his stuff out. He should know by then though, that is more than enough time.