Not getting any younger--how long should I wait for a proposal?

[Jv6ish]

My boyfriend is 40, no kids, is a Scottish citizen who ended up in the US as the result of a failed short marriage to a US Citizen. We started dating in 2011, broke up for about 5 months, got back together in 2012 and it's been about a year and a half this time around. However, we've pretty much been together in one way or the other for closer to 2.5 years.

 

I'm almost 30 and want to have kids. I want to be married before I have them, and I'm afraid if I wait around for him then when I do try, I'll be old. He just keeps saying he wants to be with me long term, he loves me, he wants kids, but he's just not there yet. He says, "what's the hurry!" And "It'll happen when it happens". He told me that he sees it in the next 5 years! I can't wait that long to start TRYING to have kids. I also don't understand how he could give up his job, his family and move across the Atlantic to marry a girl he'd known for barely a year and yet after 2.5 years he can't even consider that with me who lives 10 minutes from him.

 

I told him that the most I could give him to figure that out is another year, but if he can't commit by then---then I'm done. Is that reasonable or should I just wait till he's "ready"?

[Arabella]

I also don't understand how he could give up his job, his family and move across the Atlantic to marry a girl he'd known for barely a year and yet after 2.5 years he can't even consider that with me who lives 10 minutes from him.

 

Yeah, and how well did that work out for him? Clearly, he has learned his lesson, and that's why he's hesitant now.

 

I understand why you're concerned but there's nothing you can do about it. You've told him how you feel, and you've set your timeline. All you can do now is wait for it to roll around. If he doesn't propose, then you know what to do.

 

It's reasonable for you to want what you want, and communicate it to him. It's not reasonable to pressure him to get it. Fine line.

 

-A

[Acacia98]

I told him that the most I could give him to figure that out is another year, but if he can't commit by then---then I'm done. Is that reasonable or should I just wait till he's "ready"?

 

 

Sounds reasonable to me. Although, to be frank, I don't see why you're waiting another year. If he really wants to marry you and have kids with you, then he knows now. If he's still hemming and hawing, then he doesn't really want marriage and kids. And that's perfectly ok. But he's not being honest with you and he's wasting your time.

 

 

Anyway, you're on the right track.

[dichotomy]

If we wanted to - he would have after a year. A man in his 40's having kids is doable, but should not wait much longer, he might like to make it to see a grandkid right?

 

You also need to look at your time frames - lets say if/when you dump him. Your going to get back in to the dating game right? Depending on where you live, your age (if your 30 its gets tight out there for single guys), and attractiveness (sorry), you might be looking at what maybe two years or more of dating... to find a decent guy? Then your maybe engaged a year, wedding later, then get a home move in get settled - start trying to make babies for another year or so....then have one....so what maybe we are taking probably 5 years from the moment you kick his uncertain scottish rear end to the curb... and your holding a baby in your arms......so you wait another year for him - and he still does not want to.. then your six years out. Your 36 or 37 then.

 

Keep this in mind -get a move on - he is just not that into you or kids.

[KathyM]

Well, you've already given him a timeline of another year, so I would suggest that when the year is up, you tell him it's time to start shopping for wedding rings and planning our wedding. If he still says he is not ready, then tell him you can't wait any longer, and that maybe it's time you both went your separate ways, since it seems you both want different things and have different ideas of what timelines are going to work for you.

 

Don't make the mistake of letting him string you along for more than another year. You've already waited much longer than I would have recommended. I don't want you to find yourself in your mid thirties and still no commitment from him, or to be left high and dry after investing more years into this man. I used to work with a woman who was in a relationship with a man for 8 years. Every year, she hoped he would be ready to commit, but he kept stringing her along, and finally, after eight years, he told her he doesn't want to get married, and just wants to continue the relationship as is with no kids. By that time, she was 36. She finally left him, and within two years, she was married to a man she was very much in love with. Unfortunately, in her late thirties by that time, she realized her fertility was going to be an issue, and the risk of having a baby with health issues because of her late age pregnancy was greater than she wanted to risk, so having a child was not an option she felt she had at that point. Too bad she wasted all those years on a guy who wouldn't commit. I would suggest not wasting more time on this guy than you already promised him. You've already waited much longer than you should have.

[Janesays]

I would have left already. This man doesn't want to marry you. Nothing wrong with that, but you need to be freed up to find a man who does.

 

Tell him that this relationship is not working for you and move on,

[xxoo]

Considering your ages and how longs you've been together, he should be ready by now. If he's not, that's an answer.

[nescafe1982]

Agreed with Janesays and XXOO.

 

If I were you I'd pull away at this point. If you're living together, move out. Tell him you are going to start seeing other people. Either he'll snap to (if he's just stalling on you), or you will have your answer and will be free to meet someone who can give you what you want.

 

But with your timeline, I'd start pulling back now, not a year from now. Waiting indefinitely is a young woman's game.

 

(that last remark is meant to be tongue in cheek,... by no means is 30 "old." Heck, I'm 31.)

[pteromom]

After 2.5 years, he should know. My answer would be different if you guys were 25, but he's 40! 2.5 years is long enough. He either wants to marry you or he doesn't.

 

I wouldn't wait another year. I would tell him VERY specifically what you want, and tell him that if he isn't willing to give it to you, to let you go so you can move on.

[Jv6ish]

Thanks for all the advice.

Dichotomy--I have definitely thought much about the idea of being back in the dating field. I live in Indianapolis, and I already know there aren't many eligible bachelors left. It's pretty much the worst place to be single.

 

There are a few additional things about our situation that I didn't include because in reality I think they're probably not that relevant and just me trying to rationalize his behavior, but I thought I'd go ahead and fill you all in. Please don't hesitate to tell me what you really think about these.

 

1. First off, right now it's not financially feasible for us to get married and have kids. He's only makes about 40k a year and I am a new attorney with a pile of loans and the victim of near depression level market for attys. I just started my own practice, but it's going to be awhile before we're able to make a profit. That said, I don't think that should affect whether or not we can get engaged and have a long engagement.

 

2. I've been told that he probably suffers from some level of PTSD from his time in the British armed forces and the fact that his father walked out on his family when he was 11. Then, when he did get married she was the one who wanted a divorce after just a few months. He doesn't like to talk about or plan for the future period, although he's trying for me. He doesn't like to make decisions, whether it's as simple as where to eat or what movie to see. He says it gives him anxiety and that there's no point in planning for it when it could change in an instant regardless of how well you think things are going. Ie, people dying or his dad walking out when things seemed fine.

 

That said, I'm not a doctor and I don't understand PTSD, but I've been told that way of thinking as a result of traumatic life events is pretty characteristic of it and it doesn't mean that he can't change, but that I have to be more patient with him then someone who doesn't have it. Thoughts?

[Janesays]

I think your additions do not change your situation or my advice one single bit.

 

Listen, I spent 10 years with a man who strung me along telling me we would have kids 'one day.' We didn't. He left me for another woman and I ALMOST missed my chance at being a Mother.

 

Now, at 35, I am SO SO fortunate that I met someone else who WANTED a child and I'm pregnant right now. But it almost didn't happen for me. My entire life path and future was almost tossed in the trash because I kept waiting for someone to deliver on a promise that he had no intention of keeping.

 

Don't do it. Move on. There is someone out there, RIGHT NOW, waiting for you, who would LOVE to marry you and have a child with you. Wouldn't you rather be with HIM than wasting your time on this dude?

[Lauriebell82]

He sounds a bit wishy washy as far as where he is in his timeline. I agree that he is probably just scared because of his divorce and does not want to go through that again.

 

 

So...can you wait for him? Or risk marriage/children not happening for you?

[d0nnivain]

You're right. You aren't in a financial position to have kids but after 35 you will have to do IVF, which will cost at least $35k & is not covered by insurance.

 

 

I would amass literature about the difficulties & risks associated with trying to conceive over 35 & start educating him & yourself.

 

 

You can give him an ultimatum, but if he doesn't proposed within whatever deadline you set are you prepared to walk away? Then what? Just how fast to you think you will be able to meet someone new, get to know then, get engaged, get married & start trying to conceive?

[thinkingofhim]

I agree w/Jane.... there are plenty of men that WANT kids My brother got divorced a several years ago, he is in his mid-30s and always wanted to be a father, unfortunately the XW wanted no part in it... he remarried a very nice lady and they have popped out 2 so far, he couldn't be happier! Find a man who WANTS a family, there are plenty...don't wait around for a 40 year old man to change his mind...

[Eggplant]

Depending on where you live, your age (if your 30 its gets tight out there for single guys), and attractiveness (sorry), you might be looking at what maybe two years or more of dating... to find a decent guy? Then your maybe engaged a year, wedding later, then get a home move in get settled - start trying to make babies for another year or so....then have one....so what maybe we are taking probably 5 years from the moment you kick his uncertain scottish rear end to the curb... and your holding a baby in your arms......so you wait another year for him - and he still does not want to.. then your six years out. Your 36 or 37 then.

What ends up eating your time is when you are freely giving exclusivity to a man who isn't going to marry you. In the old days, people didn't go steady. Either a woman was single or she was engaged/married. Men didn't get to get exclusivity and then just never progress. It takes 18 months to know whether you're going to get married. And until you know you're getting married, or highly likely to be going down that path, don't commit.

[Keenly]

I feel like the women today don't give any respect to when a man wants to marry. Its usually just about when the woman is ready. Once she is ready, the clock is ticking, the pressure is on, and its conform or get out.

 

Let the man decide on his own time line. If you are not at all concerned with how HE feels, then just leave now. Not really fair to demand some one make a choice when they are not ready to.

[Eggplant]

I feel like the women today don't give any respect to when a man wants to marry. Its usually just about when the woman is ready. Once she is ready, the clock is ticking, the pressure is on, and its conform or get out.

 

Let the man decide on his own time line. If you are not at all concerned with how HE feels, then just leave now. Not really fair to demand some one make a choice when they are not ready to.

 

For a person to marry, there are 2 independent requirements:

 

1. The person must find the right match.
   
2. The person must feel that it is the right time to marry, independent of the other person.
   

Women looking to have children soon would be wise to only date men who already have decided that marriage and children are what they want, and who are only waiting to verify that their partner is right. I adamantly agree that a person should not be pressured. (Seriously, who wants to pressure a person to marry?) I don't agree about the "Let the man decide on his own time line," if it means dating somebody who isn't ready and waiting indefinitely. I say don't even enter into a relationship with a man on a different timeline, and if you make that mistake, it's a good reason to bow out.

[xxoo]

I feel like the women today don't give any respect to when a man wants to marry. Its usually just about when the woman is ready. Once she is ready, the clock is ticking, the pressure is on, and its conform or get out.

 

Let the man decide on his own time line. If you are not at all concerned with how HE feels, then just leave now. Not really fair to demand some one make a choice when they are not ready to.

 

He can decide on his own time. But so can she. It's about compatibility, and being at the same stage in life together, which is fundamentally important.

[Janesays]

I feel like the women today don't give any respect to when a man wants to marry. Its usually just about when the woman is ready. Once she is ready, the clock is ticking, the pressure is on, and its conform or get out.

 

Let the man decide on his own time line. If you are not at all concerned with how HE feels, then just leave now. Not really fair to demand some one make a choice when they are not ready to.

 

Who said anything about pressuring the man into marriage? On the contrary, I said accept and respect his decision not to marry and leave.

[spacey]

Ask him today and tell him to decide in 4 weeks.

 

People don't always make decisions when all the stars align.Everybody makes major life decisions with some unknowns.If he is that scared of marriage,let him go.

 

I would waste my time with anyone that is not serious about marrying me within an year of dating.How long is he gonna spend knowing me ? A lifetime is not enough to know a person.

[knitwit]

My boyfriend is 40, no kids, is a Scottish citizen who ended up in the US as the result of a failed short marriage to a US Citizen. We started dating in 2011, broke up for about 5 months, got back together in 2012 and it's been about a year and a half this time around. However, we've pretty much been together in one way or the other for closer to 2.5 years.

 

I'm almost 30 and want to have kids. I want to be married before I have them, and I'm afraid if I wait around for him then when I do try, I'll be old. He just keeps saying he wants to be with me long term, he loves me, he wants kids, but he's just not there yet. He says, "what's the hurry!" And "It'll happen when it happens". He told me that he sees it in the next 5 years! I can't wait that long to start TRYING to have kids. I also don't understand how he could give up his job, his family and move across the Atlantic to marry a girl he'd known for barely a year and yet after 2.5 years he can't even consider that with me who lives 10 minutes from him.

 

I told him that the most I could give him to figure that out is another year, but if he can't commit by then---then I'm done. Is that reasonable or should I just wait till he's "ready"?

 

I can understand that a man might be gun-shy after a divorce.

 

That said, the two of you are not in synch with your timelines and your goals. Your guy isn't saying, "Hang in there, just a little while longer". He is trying to push it out half a decade. That is a long time. You could get another degree and start a new career in that amount of time.

 

Are you in agreement in other areas? You are living 10 minutes from him, so you aren't living together. Has he asked you to move in with him first? Are you waiting for an engagement or marriage before living together?

 

No judgement on either decision; I am just curious that he is OK with you not living with him. If you are waiting to move in until engagement or marriage, and he is saying "give me up to five years to make it happen"....well, he is not eager to live with you. If this is the case, then he is OK with the status quo and is working to keep it for quite some time to come. And if this is the case, I would weigh this heavily in any decision on whether to give it more time or cut the relationship loose.

 

Your addition information only adds new concerns for me on whether this is a good guy on which to place a marital bet.

 

On your first issue- if he is hesitant over finances, then the fastest way to get on better footing is to work together and combine households. Many women will agree to live together if there is a ring and a firm plan. I think this would encourage him to pop the question faster, if that is the direction in which he were headed.

 

Regarding your second issue- as an older married woman and mom, I shook my head a little reading that info. As it stands right now, that is some bad news. If you are going to give your guy a year, give him a year to get into therapy and to get a psychiatrist to treat his anxiety and possible PTSD. THAT should be your marker, IMO.

 

You are young, you are smart, you are starting your own career. Your partner should be someone where the two of you are stronger together than separately- in a great marriage, the sum is greater than its parts. If your partner has untreated psychiatric issues, then you will not be stronger together. He might be stronger with you, but you will spend many of your resources (personal, emotional, as well as time and financial) trying to keep things stable to accommodate his issues. This is going to be magnified many times over if you go onto have kids with him.

 

PTSD, anxiety, depression- they can all be treated. It takes time and usually a balance of both medications and therapy/cognitive re-training.

 

Treatment is a game-changer. He will feel so much better and he will function much better. In fact, I would venture a guess that most of your issues with your guy- including him wanting to push out or possibly outright avoid getting married- are ultimately due to these untreated psych issues.

 

In your shoes, knowing what I know now, here is the conversation I would have:

"I love you, I want to spend my future with you. I want to have kids and a wonderful family life with you. In order for that to happen, I need your help. I need you to be the strong, smart man I know you are. I think though that you have some issues from your past that are interfering with you, and with us. I hear you say that you cannot make plans, that everything can change in an instant, and while that is true, I still need a man who can make plans, who can tolerate the uncertainty of life. I think you ARE that man, but you need some help in processing what happened to you. Therefore I want you to get some therapy, to help you work through your past and build a wonderful, strong future with me."

 

If he agrees to treatment, it's on! Hurrah! But he doesn't agree to it, or doesn't follow-through, I hope you really strongly consider your options. Your choice of spouse is one of the most significant decisions, it will affect your quality of life and your future children's quality of life. Choose wisely!

 

Good luck, whatever you decide to do!

[nescafe1982]

If you are going to give your guy a year, give him a year to get into therapy and to get a psychiatrist to treat his anxiety and possible PTSD. THAT should be your marker, IMO.

 

I absolutely concur with this 100%. The most loving thing you can do for a man who is ill is help him get treatment. And if he's worth waiting for, you want him well before you tie the knot and start trying for children.

[Lauriebell82]

I don't think putting extreme pressure on your boyfriend is going to get him to marry you any faster. Actually, it will probably deter him even further. He is scared after his divorce. This is the problem with dating divorced men. They are often gunshy. If you give him just 4 weeks he will most likely flip out and run the other way. So, if you aren't willing to work with him (which it sounds as though you aren't) then you have to make a decision if you are willing to take the chance on him that he may change his mind sooner then 5 years from now.

 

 

Instead of pressure, give him empathy. I like what knitwit suggested that you say to him. The bottom line is that nobody can say for SURE that he doesn't want to marry you, as we can not read his mind. But he has made it clear he is not in a hurry and cannot give you a timeline. If you need the timeline, then this probably isn't the man for you.

[LovelyLife]

But as a 40 year old woman who met the love of my life at 36 - got married at 39 - and am now desperately trying to conceive . . .

 

I would cut your losses and going forward - ONLY date fully ready for that lifestyle and commitment men.

 

IF having a bio child of your own is something you really want (not adopted, not a donated egg, no ivf, no iui) you really seriously cannot waste one more minute of your time on him.

 

Folks will say - Ohhhhh you can do this - adopt here. They are normally people who had their kids and it's kind of 'screw you' I've got mine so what if you don't get yours. It's much more difficult than they think and A.R.T. is extremely expensive. If you are going to stick around - then go get some of your eggs harvested and put them on a shelf. Most ART facilities will hold for at least five years without paying them rent.

 

All I read is that you are 30 - and he is not ready. The reality is - it is much harder to meet a quality marriageable guy at 40 than it is 30. You are in a time zone/age group where there are a lot of folks settling down and marrying.

 

When my husband and I met - he was 40. Never married, no kids, and financially successful. That's another HIGH marrying age for men if they have been in that sitchy - i.e. bachelor never married no kids ready to share their lives.

 

This guy - doesn't sound like marrying material for a woman who wants her own bio child. Great for an older woman whos BTDT and doesn't want kids or doesnt want anymore - but honey -

 

You are young. Don't waste the pretty. Don't waste the eggs. RUN!

 

My boyfriend is 40, no kids, is a Scottish citizen who ended up in the US as the result of a failed short marriage to a US Citizen. We started dating in 2011, broke up for about 5 months, got back together in 2012 and it's been about a year and a half this time around. However, we've pretty much been together in one way or the other for closer to 2.5 years.

 

I'm almost 30 and want to have kids. I want to be married before I have them, and I'm afraid if I wait around for him then when I do try, I'll be old. He just keeps saying he wants to be with me long term, he loves me, he wants kids, but he's just not there yet. He says, "what's the hurry!" And "It'll happen when it happens". He told me that he sees it in the next 5 years! I can't wait that long to start TRYING to have kids. I also don't understand how he could give up his job, his family and move across the Atlantic to marry a girl he'd known for barely a year and yet after 2.5 years he can't even consider that with me who lives 10 minutes from him.

 

I told him that the most I could give him to figure that out is another year, but if he can't commit by then---then I'm done. Is that reasonable or should I just wait till he's "ready"?

[stillafool]

I feel like the women today don't give any respect to when a man wants to marry. Its usually just about when the woman is ready. Once she is ready, the clock is ticking, the pressure is on, and its conform or get out.

 

Let the man decide on his own time line. If you are not at all concerned with how HE feels, then just leave now. Not really fair to demand some one make a choice when they are not ready to.

 

I agree with you but the reason some women do this is because of their biological clock is ticking so loudly they can't hear themselves think. It's the way nature planned it.