The BS's role

[whichwayisup]

Well, here's one way of asking my question:

 

Is infidelity THE problem or simply a symptom?

 

I believe that . . .

 

1. I was ripe for becoming a WS because I always chose men who disregarded my feelings, and I always grew bitter over time. I would have either been divorced over and over or a cheater. Either way, my "why" is that I never respected myself enough to choose a healthy guy in the first place. And my H? He has never cared about anyone but himself, but he's learning to. That is why I'm staying instead of divorcing him.

 

2. my brother's picker IS off, and that is no 'small' issue. It is actually a huge issue wrapped in a cute saying. If you are picking people that don't respect you, then the problem starts with you.

 

Is love blind? Or does unhealthy turn a blind eye to unhealthy?

 

And how do I help my brother?

 

I think you're broken inside. Stop blaming your husband for his flaws and putting it on him as to why you cheated and had an affair. Fix you and stick with MC, hopefully together with lots of communication, listening and respect, you and your H can commit to one another in a healthier way and find happiness again in your marriage.

[threelaurels]

Is infidelity THE problem or simply a symptom?

 

Honestly, it is a difficult question to answer. Most people seem to believe that infidelity works like this in most cases:

 

marital problems --> infidelity

 

I don't deny that this may be the case for some people, but I don't think it's the case for the majority. I think it actually works something more like this:

 

poor coping skills --> marital problems

poor coping skills --> infidelity

 

Poor coping skills are at the heart of both the marital problems and the infidelity. If one or both parties cannot communicate effectively, it leads to a breakdown in the marriage. However, not all people in problem marriages cheat. Rather, it is those who (a) tend to avoid conflict and favor escapist coping strategies, and/or (b) are vulnerable to what we call "techniques of neutralization" in my field.

[janedoe67]

BS's aren't broken until our WS break us.

 

Specific to the event of the A, I agree. Otherwise....disagree. Unless there are people out there walking among us who have achieved perfection. but then that would mean they had perfect "pickers' and wouldn't have chosen us defective "broken" people to begin with.....

[harrybrown]

How do you help your brother? Tell him that he is needing help and you will set him up with someone who will not cheat on him.

 

How do you help your husband? Tell him you cheated and finish the exit of your marriage.

 

Did you get tested for stds? If you wanted out of the marriage, you should divorce, then go do your selfish acts.

 

You still do not care about your H. I think you care about your brother. Tell your husband about your affair. Break him in two, let him mourn and hurt the rest of his life. But divorce him so he can find someone that gives two cents about him.

 

Tell him you care about your brother but you do not give a shyt about your H. You cheated on him, but you did use protection during your affair, so you do not have to get tested for stds.

 

Give him the divorce so he does not waste the rest of his life because you do not care about him at all.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

If WSs are broken and water seeks its own level, then doesn't that make BSs broken too in some way, for choosing to marry someone who clearly had issues? If your WS is a narcissist, for example, shouldn't you be very worried about why you found a narcissist attractive in the first place, enough to marry them?

 

 

I think we all know at least one person who always seems to date or fall in love with someone with obvious "issues," but a lot of the time the "issues" are not that obvious and one of the partners gets kind of blindsided.

 

 

In some cases the WS are broken, in some cases the BS are broken, and in many cases they somehow find each other. In most cases, however, I don't think the cheating is because anyone is broken, but rather because the cheaters made a bad choice or felt they had a reason to cheat and could justify it to themselves.

[AlwaysGrowing]

FTR

 

All of us are broken...all of us have areas that need tending.

 

We should all strive to constantly grow beyond ourselves. To be ever watchful of bad habits, unhealthy thought processes, damaging dynamics that we possess. Mindful of how we are moving through this life that we have been given. Do we leave light? Or darkness in our wake. Will we fail...absolutely. Should we not strive due to failures? Absolutely NOT. We reassess, we regroup, we refocus.

 

We focus on what works, replicate it over and over..until it is a part of us.

 

Looking to fix another does nothing for us. NOTHING. In this area...be selfish..fix yourself.

[Woggle]

I am responsible for not listening to her own sister when she warned me not to marry her. I should have listened.

[Artie Lang]

i really feel that your counselors opinions concerning NOT admitting to your affair are flawed. i mean..... how can you try and fix your marriage without coming clean about something like this. for them to advise you to keep such a thing under wraps is pretty f*cked up..... almost like they are enabling you to perpetuate a lie, all the while staring in your husbands face while you omit this from your counseling discussions. WTF?!

 

 

as to your brother..... he needs to decide what's best for him- he's a big boy. you need to get your priorities straight- that means owning up to your actions and trying to repair your own marriage first, before trying to tackle other issues.

[Raena]

I went and sat in on an anger management group as a student a few times (many moons ago) because I wanted to figure out how to better myself at working with troubled teens. Most of them (youth) were very angry and I wanted to know how to help them through it. What I learned is the most of the women there were there because they were court ordered to do so due to domestic violence. I didn't really learn what I needed to learn for the youth I work with, but the one thing I did take from it is that the facilitator consistently told the women that no matter what the circumstances were, they had to take ownership of their role in the situation. He can't hurt you if you get away from him.

 

Now how about that. Most of these woman were in battered relationships that were dysfunctional. They told the VICTIMS of abuse that it was their own fault.

 

I didn't agree with it and walked away after a couple of sessions feeling sick to my stomach.

 

I feel the same way about accusing the BS of playing a role in the choices their spouse made. Sure, some of it is in the BS's control... if he/she knew that the person was untrustworthy, then yes they were taking a chance that they might get hurt. The problem is, you can't really control the choices other people make and to say that it is the fault of the BS for not choosing a better mate upsets me.

 

Further, falling in love is taking a chance. It always is. Even if the person seems perfect in the beginning and there are no red flags there is always that chance that it will end. One of those reasons could be infidelity. It could be any number of things. Falling in love and trusting in someone isn't a fault. It's what you are supposed to do with the person you have chosen to be with.

 

If that person chooses to stray, and lie, and humiliate their spouse, it isn't the spouse's fault. Could there have been something in the relationship that both needed to address? Sure. But to choose to cheat and then blame the person you cheated on is just pathetic. I say the cheaters need to accept that they alone hold the responsibility for cheating. It's not like their spouse took them by the hand and said here... have sex with this person. That's the choice the cheater made instead of trying to fix what was wrong or walk away.

 

Now... choosing to stay with someone who cheated in the past is a tough one. Who is at fault if the spouse chooses to stray again? "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". I have mixed feelings about that.

[janedoe67]

Now how about that. Most of these woman were in battered relationships that were dysfunctional. They told the VICTIMS of abuse that it was their own fault.

 

No they didn't. They told these women the truth that they have control over their own actions.

 

The only thing we can control is our own actions. When we give over that control, be it in an abusive relationship, or choosing not to have self-control in response to someone else's actions, we are giving up the power WE have over ourselves.

 

I have a couple of dear friends who escaped abusive marriages, and they would say the same thing those leaders said. I cannot control anyone else, but I can control me.

 

Self-responsibility isn't pick and choose. We expect other people to take full responsibility for their choices and then blame out own choices on theirs.

[dichotomy]

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

Your saying - you choose the person to marry - you own what happens next? Hmmmm....well I suppose something to discuss.

 

I can say I knew some, but not the big stuff and my wife has confessed she made a conscious and deliberate plan to lie and hide her past and her beliefs - in order to get me. So from that standpoint - she has owned it.

[peaksandvalleys]

i really feel that your counselors opinions concerning NOT admitting to your affair are flawed. i mean..... how can you try and fix your marriage without coming clean about something like this. for them to advise you to keep such a thing under wraps is pretty f*cked up..... almost like they are enabling you to perpetuate a lie, all the while staring in your husbands face while you omit this from your counseling discussions. WTF?!

 

 

as to your brother..... he needs to decide what's best for him- he's a big boy. you need to get your priorities straight- that means owning up to your actions and trying to repair your own marriage first, before trying to tackle other issues.

 

Quoted because it needs to be.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's amazing how some WS are able to argue both sides here.

 

First they tell us we're all human and, under the right circumstances, anyone can cheat.

 

And then they tell us the BS, based on spouse selection, should have seen it coming.

 

Which is it? I'd like to prepare better next time...

 

Mr. Lucky

[janedoe67]

It's amazing how some WS are able to argue both sides here.

 

First they tell us we're all human and, under the right circumstances, anyone can cheat.

 

And then they tell us the BS, based on spouse selection, should have seen it coming.

 

Which is it? I'd like to prepare better next time...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I don't argue both sides. H should never have ever "had to see something coming." I believe that under the right set of circumstances anyone can be tempted to cheat. If you are asexual - like my H for example - you probably aren't going to.

 

An A is always the responsibility of the one who chooses to have it.

 

HOWEVER

 

An A does NOT magically make all pre-A problems the fault of the WS OR mean that they did not exist. Those problems don't excuse an A....but someone who makes the choice to be blind to all of their own issues and rather excuse them because "my spouse cheated" is not doing themselves any favors.

 

An A is wrong. My A was my fault.

 

My H still wasn't perfect....sorry. And neither is anyone else, whether they can look in the mirror clearly or not.

[underwater2010]

You can call me broken BS. I finally realized that no matter how much I do for him or love him it will NEVER prevent an affair. Some people are just that selfish in a relationship. Does that mean my "picker" is out of whack. Hell no. It just means that my heart and sense of obligation is much greater than his.

 

Just to let you know. I am now broken because of his actions not mine. I did nothing but give and give some more. Trying to make sure that he was happy. To what end...my sanity and self esteem. But guess what. I am slowly regaining that ground.

[Raena]

No they didn't. They told these women the truth that they have control over their own actions.

 

The only thing we can control is our own actions. When we give over that control, be it in an abusive relationship, or choosing not to have self-control in response to someone else's actions, we are giving up the power WE have over ourselves.

 

I have a couple of dear friends who escaped abusive marriages, and they would say the same thing those leaders said. I cannot control anyone else, but I can control me.

 

Self-responsibility isn't pick and choose. We expect other people to take full responsibility for their choices and then blame out own choices on theirs.

 

It isn't that simple. Having control over your own actions and being able to follow through on them are two different things. That's the hard part about being in an abusive relationship. The abuser often makes it very difficult to make that change. However, I won't go on about it anymore here because that isn't what this thread is about.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I have discussed this with my IC, who is now divorced after her husband cheated. She agrees that a BS will have trouble owning through their pain, and that is why she told me not to tell my H. Because he won't own his part of our long-time broken M if I do. He won't be able to see it through his pain. Just like my brother who wouldn't own any part of his M after his ex cheated. And now he is about to marry loser #2.

 

How very patronizing of you both. An IC you say???

 

So, he MUST own his part...and YOU???? You and your IC(?) decided that you don't. Sounds like a wonderful new marriage you are building for yourself. Because he is building nothing. Absolutely nothing at all.

 

I find it interesting you call your husband CA...I assume you mean towards his issues..but you...can avoid your affair all day everyday..and the same tagline doesn't get attached to you.

 

You talk about trying to get him to see your pain...what do you mean exactly.

 

It is hard to tell with such little details..except of course the labeling of your husband CA, PA and causation of your choice to cheat.

[Woggle]

Nobody is responsible for how another person treats them but I do get a little tired of people who keep going back to the same bad situation.

[janedoe67]

If the sex life was that dysfunctional then both of you probably should have seen it coming. So yes a very bad sex life with an asexual husband should have been a great big clue to you that you might end up cheating if you weren't careful or if you didn't solve the problem.

 

I was responsible for fixing HIS problem...

 

uh huh

 

Actually, I tried everything under the sun to be good enough...cause if I was just good enough he would want me, right?

 

My affair was wrong. but even my own husband is objective and clear headed enough to realize that it took BOTH of us to get our marriage into such a sad state.

 

Spin it any way you want. Yes, a WS is 100% responsible for their choice to cheat, and that choice is always wrong.

 

However, you can't pin every flaw in every marriage touched by infidelity on the WS just cause you want to.

 

I can believe that the earth is flat.....but it;s not.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I think what rubs me the wrong way about this situation is that the OP only agrees to accept responsibility for staying in the marriage, all fault lies with her husband in regard to the state of the relationship...heck..he even gets to carry fault for the cheating too. It really makes me wonder what exactly the dynamic was between the two of them.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Didn't you have more than one?

 

 

 

No let's spin it the way you want by pretending you only had one rather than multiple affairs.

 

 

Jane is a FWS, not your WS. Jane pretends nothing. Jane has never hidden behind anything.

[janedoe67]

Jane is a FWS, not your WS. Jane pretends nothing. Jane has never hidden behind anything.

 

I appreciate this, but I do admit that I have wondered before if I should make sure I always say affairS instead of just "cheating" or affair. The painful truth is that I DID betray my h more than once, and I shouldn't downplay it, even unintentionally.

 

I am 100% responsible for cheating not just once. I also contributed to some of our ongoing problems. There were times I tried valiantly and times failed miserably. I am not a model that anyone should follow. My biggest fear is that my failings have irreparably damaged my kids.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I appreciate this, but I do admit that I have wondered before if I should make sure I always say affairS instead of just "cheating" or affair. The painful truth is that I DID betray my h more than once, and I shouldn't downplay it, even unintentionally.

 

I am 100% responsible for cheating not just once. I also contributed to some of our ongoing problems. There were times I tried valiantly and times failed miserably. I am not a model that anyone should follow. My biggest fear is that my failings have irreparably damaged my kids.

 

Quite honestly...I dislike the alphabet soup titles that everyone bathes in. It is not an accurate picture of who the poster is at all. There is too much of a them and us mentality sometimes. That is why I have never put on any pins. My opinion should stand on its own merit.

[thecharade]

Well, wow. Everything spun every which way, but it is obvious from what everyone wrote that my brother is:

 

Fine. And doesn't need IC, even though he has never had a successful R. (By his own-or anyone else's-standard.) I wish I could help him see that if a BS has any interest in a peaceful R, then they often (NOT always) need to look at themselves. But he will not own any part of what happened in his M. So we all just have to watch the repeat.

 

I will never tell my H a thing. He doesn't want to know.

 

And I'm out of this thread.

Thank you.

[Journee]

Well, wow. Everything spun every which way, but it is obvious from what everyone wrote that my brother is:

 

Fine. And doesn't need IC, even though he has never had a successful R. (By his own-or anyone else's-standard.) I wish I could help him see that if a BS has any interest in a peaceful R, then they often (NOT always) need to look at themselves. But he will not own any part of what happened in his M

 

From what everyone wrote?

 

*Raises hand*

 

I think my post said the opposite. I had to own my brokenness and yes I admit I am broken. In tremendous pain that I brought into my relationship with my H. I even admitted that most men would had turned on their heels at my antics. I am not perfect and have been hard to love.

 

I know zero perfect wives or husbands.