The BS's role

[thecharade]

This may be more than a bit controversial, but I'm going to post it anyway.

 

I am the WS, and my H does not know about my A, outrightly anyway. He and I have both been in IC for a year, with a little MC thrown in. My IC agrees that my H does most likely know there was an A, but he does not want the details. He uses denial like a master to stay away from pain, and he is completely conflict avoidant. He communicates only through passive aggressive behaviors. Me? My issues? Codependent all the way! I tried to get him to see my pain and to make changes, but he wouldn't. As our MC said to my H, "She needs to own the fact that she stayed married to you and didn't divorce you. It would have been a wake up call 17 years ago instead of now. But, she let you think your avoidance of issues was ok because she covered up how she really felt." My A has been over for 17 months, and I'm the one who ended it. My H and I have been working hard since then.

 

My brother just went through a very ugly D. She cheated on him continually throughout the M. He has now found a new gf, like all his other gfs and his W: broken. He always chooses needy, damaged women who are struggling, either financially, emotionally, situationally, or all 3. I clearly see that he has Knight in Shining Armour issues, but he does not see his role or responsibility. "It was my W that cheated, and I had nothing to do with her choices!" And we are terrified for him because he clearly has issues that are going to lead to another woman crushing him.

 

If WSs are broken and water seeks its own level, then doesn't that make BSs broken too in some way, for choosing to marry someone who clearly had issues? If your WS is a narcissist, for example, shouldn't you be very worried about why you found a narcissist attractive in the first place, enough to marry them?

 

I am very worried for my brother. He has two eight year olds to watch out for. My H and I are both equally working our butts off, only because he doesn't know about the A outright. If he did, we'd be working on his pain instead of our unhealthy dynamic. If he wanted to work on only his pain and not our relationship, I would have left him. My A was an exit A, so I was done trying to cope in an M where I was doing all of the work while he denied, denied, and denied my unhappiness.

 

This is not the dynamic of every A, but it is common in many. How does a BS not see that they often played a role, in choosing their "broken" spouse, if nothing else? How do you not repeat your own mistakes if you don't see your own issues?

 

I have discussed this with my IC, who is now divorced after her husband cheated. She agrees that a BS will have trouble owning through their pain, and that is why she told me not to tell my H. Because he won't own his part of our long-time broken M if I do. He won't be able to see it through his pain. Just like my brother who wouldn't own any part of his M after his ex cheated. And now he is about to marry loser #2.

[oldshirt]

Let's make this like Jepordy and phrase it like a question. What's your question?

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I'm confused as well. Are you asking for help for your family members? Or is the real question "should I tell my spouse about my affair?"

[elbe]

This is not the dynamic of every A, but it is common in many. How does a BS not see that they often played a role, in choosing their "broken" spouse, if nothing else? How do you not repeat your own mistakes if you don't see your own issues?

 

You have no idea how wrong you are to blame the BS for an affair. This is incredibly immoral and literally just wrong [incorrect].

 

An affair is a deceit, done behind the back of your so called spouse. If you had any morals at all you would leave your spouse before having an affair.

 

You can't blame the BS for your own actions. You were wrong to have an affair while you were still with them. It's not their fault. You are wrong.

[threelaurels]

The only thing I am responsible for is staying with a man who hit me, verbally abused me, raped me, and cheated on me. I was naive and fell for his game. That doesn't mean I own any responsibility in his decisions to cheat or abuse me. I was not a broken person before I met him.

[oldshirt]

That doesn't mean I own any responsibility in his decisions to cheat or abuse me.

 

Then that means you are ripe for the pickings for future abuse.

 

He didn't one day do all of those things to you at once. It built up and escalated over time. His decision to continue and escalate the bad behavior was due to you allowing it to occur.

 

Had you left him and stayed away from him at the first sign of violence the second sign of violence would not have occurred.

 

If he had been removed from the home and been in jail where he belonged, it would have been less likely for the escalation to have occurred.

 

If you would have left and stayed away after the first cheating occurred, it wouldn't have matter who he banged after that and wouldn't have been cheating on you at all.

 

When you don't own any responsibility to what happens to you, then you are forever the victim and are at the mercy of those who will mistreat you. When you take ownership of your share of the responsibility then you become empowered and at the helm of your own safety and well being.

[Zenstudent]

Theoretically, I guess you can put the blame for infidelity on the BS for having a totally broken spouse-picker.

 

But if I'm to buy it, I would request that all cheaters should wear a sign saying "I'm gonna betray you" - otherwise I'm not quite sure how you would expect me to pick a non-broken person if the issues don't surface untill later...?

[threelaurels]

Then that means you are ripe for the pickings for future abuse.

 

He didn't one day do all of those things to you at once. It built up and escalated over time. His decision to continue and escalate the bad behavior was due to you allowing it to occur.

 

Had you left him and stayed away from him at the first sign of violence the second sign of violence would not have occurred.

 

If he had been removed from the home and been in jail where he belonged, it would have been less likely for the escalation to have occurred.

 

If you would have left and stayed away after the first cheating occurred, it wouldn't have matter who he banged after that and wouldn't have been cheating on you at all.

 

When you don't own any responsibility to what happens to you, then you are forever the victim and are at the mercy of those who will mistreat you. When you take ownership of your share of the responsibility then you become empowered and at the helm of your own safety and well being.

 

In my post, I stated that I am responsible for staying. I own that. However, I am not responsible for his actions or the choices he made. I am not with him anymore, so what's done is done.

[Realist3]

I get the OP's question pretty clearly, or at least i think I do.

 

Do some BS's pic partners that how signs of failure from the beginning?

 

My wife and I have a close friend that we have known for 15 years or so. She's not very attractive physically, but has the greatest, kindest personality you could imagine. Over this period of time she has become seriously involved with what I would call bad guys 4-5 times. Time and time again it ends up the same. They take her money, they cheat on her, or they end up in prison; sometimes all three. For whatever reason she ignores obvious signs or is drawn to a certain personality type that results in failure. Is it her fault that these men do these things to her? No, but the signs are clearly there from the beginning; so in that regard I do think she has some role in what eventually happens. Her picker is out of kilter.

 

We have another friend that is on his 4th marriage and he is only 42. His issue is he likes trophy wives. Three previous marriages ended because of infidelity on their part. I have little to no doubt this 4th marriage will end the same way within the next 1-2 years. He picks shallow bimbos that want his money. I certainly think he has some culpability in continually picking the wrong woman.

[Realist3]

Theoretically, I guess you can put the blame for infidelity on the BS for having a totally broken spouse-picker.

 

But if I'm to buy it, I would request that all cheaters should wear a sign saying "I'm gonna betray you" - otherwise I'm not quite sure how you would expect me to pick a non-broken person if the issues don't surface untill later...?

 

I think the adage, "Love is blind' might come into play here. When you are in love you tend to ignore all of the bad signs that are glaringly evident to outsiders looking in.

[janedoe67]

The BS has ZERO role in the A - that is all on the WS

 

However, in normal, objective realities....the BS probably DOES have some role in the state of the marriage.

[Zenstudent]

So, by saying that, you mean it's totally obvious to everybody besides the spouse, that infidelity will occur?

[yellowmaverick]

I get the OP's question pretty clearly, or at least i think I do.

 

Do some BS's pic partners that how signs of failure from the beginning?

 

My wife and I have a close friend that we have known for 15 years or so. She's not very attractive physically, but has the greatest, kindest personality you could imagine. Over this period of time she has become seriously involved with what I would call bad guys 4-5 times. Time and time again it ends up the same. They take her money, they cheat on her, or they end up in prison; sometimes all three. For whatever reason she ignores obvious signs or is drawn to a certain personality type that results in failure. Is it her fault that these men do these things to her? No, but the signs are clearly there from the beginning; so in that regard I do think she has some role in what eventually happens. Her picker is out of kilter.

j

We have another friend that is on his 4th marriage and he is only 42. His issue is he likes trophy wives. Three previous marriages ended because of infidelity on their part. I have little to no doubt this 4th marriage will end the same way within the next 1-2 years. He picks shallow bimbos that want his money. I certainly think he has some culpability in continually picking the wrong woman.

 

What about your own wife? Was there something about you that she should have seen before she married you? Should she have known or suspected that you would cheat on her for years?

[janedoe67]

So, by saying that, you mean it's totally obvious to everybody besides the spouse, that infidelity will occur?

 

Nope, because despite how much "better" it makes some BS's to think so....those of us who made the terrible choice to cheat are not some defective from birth mutants programmed to eventually "go off." We are regular people who do in fact have redeemable qualities who, for a time, allowed ourselves to become someone of whom we are now very very ashamed.

 

But I get that the "truly evil inside" angle feels better.

[Realist3]

So, by saying that, you mean it's totally obvious to everybody besides the spouse, that infidelity will occur?

 

Certainly not in every case. IMO, I think in most cases it is not obvious.

 

Before I got married 20 years ago I was a ladies man. My soon to be wife knew it and so did her family. Her aunt told her dad, "He's going to cheat on her." I found out about this three days before our wedding and was furious. Well, after some 16 years later after making that statement it turns out she was right. That is not to say it was my wife's fault.

[thecharade]

Well, here's one way of asking my question:

 

Is infidelity THE problem or simply a symptom?

 

I believe that . . .

 

1. I was ripe for becoming a WS because I always chose men who disregarded my feelings, and I always grew bitter over time. I would have either been divorced over and over or a cheater. Either way, my "why" is that I never respected myself enough to choose a healthy guy in the first place. And my H? He has never cared about anyone but himself, but he's learning to. That is why I'm staying instead of divorcing him.

 

2. my brother's picker IS off, and that is no 'small' issue. It is actually a huge issue wrapped in a cute saying. If you are picking people that don't respect you, then the problem starts with you.

 

Is love blind? Or does unhealthy turn a blind eye to unhealthy?

 

And how do I help my brother?

[Zenstudent]

Nope, because despite how much "better" it makes some BS's to think so....those of us who made the terrible choice to cheat are not some defective from birth mutants programmed to eventually "go off." We are regular people who do in fact have redeemable qualities who, for a time, allowed ourselves to become someone of whom we are now very very ashamed.

 

But I get that the "truly evil inside" angle feels better.

My question wasn't really directed at you, I asked so fast that I thought I didn't need to quote Realist3.

 

I'm curious to know why you seem to think that I want to believe in a "truly evil angle"? I don't recall having said that ever. On the contrary; I'm think of myself as consistant in believing that people do stupid and hurtfull things, myself included, which is acceptable to me as long as they try to learn and improve from them. Do you see what I write differently?

 

It was Realist3 and OP who seemed to think that all the signs are there from the beginning, so if I end up with someone who cheats on me, it's because I unconsciously signed up for it allthough I should've known better all along.

 

Maybe I'm just puzzled by the topic of the thread in general.

[janedoe67]

My question wasn't really directed at you, I asked so fast that I thought I didn't need to quote Realist3.

 

I'm curious to know why you seem to think that I want to believe in a "truly evil angle"? I don't recall having said that ever. On the contrary; I'm think of myself as consistant in believing that people do stupid and hurtfull things, myself included, which is acceptable to me as long as they try to learn and improve from them. Do you see what I write differently?

 

It was Realist3 and OP who seemed to think that all the signs are there from the beginning, so if I end up with someone who cheats on me, it's because I unconsciously signed up for it allthough I should've known better all along.

 

Maybe I'm just puzzled by the topic of the thread in general.

 

From your posts I have never gotten the idea that you think cheaters are inhrently defective. You seem very able to be objective. In fact, I wish more poster were like you.

[velvette]

Infidelity is a coping mechanism. Whether its used to cope with the cheaters issues, the marital issues or both varies, but either way its a symptom of the issues within the person who chooses it as a coping mechanism.

 

More interesting is that you are manipulating your H into IC and MC without telling him the truth about your A. Do you realize that controlling behavior is at the root of codependency? Odd that your therapist would support that since it keeps you stuck in codepency.

 

Also, interesting that you feel your H is PA. IMO cheating is about as PA as it comes.

 

My belief is that you will never find your own truth while you are deceiving others. I also cant imagine how angry your H will be when he finds out you have conned him into "honestly" working on your M while you are keeping such a huge secret.

 

As for your brother, he needs therapy.

[janedoe67]

Infidelity is a coping mechanism. Whether its used to cope with the cheaters issues, the marital issues or both varies, but either way its a symptom of the issues within the person who chooses it as a coping mechanism.

 

More interesting is that you are manipulating your H into IC and MC without telling him the truth about your A. Do you realize that controlling behavior is at the root of codependency? Odd that your therapist would support that since it keeps you stuck in codepency.

 

Also, interesting that you feel your H is PA. IMO cheating is about as PA as it comes.

 

My belief is that you will never find your own truth while you are deceiving others. I also cant imagine how angry your H will be when he finds out you have conned him into "honestly" working on your M while you are keeping such a huge secret.

 

As for your brother, he needs therapy.

 

^^^This

 

There is no sense in working on your marriage as long as you are allowing someone else to invade it or withholding such a HUGE aspect of the problem. IF you really want your M to have a chance, end any A's and tell your spouse without blaming him for your choices.

 

Any semblance of a happy marriage you achieve without this is a sham.

[Realist3]

It was Realist3 and OP who seemed to think that all the signs are there from the beginning, so if I end up with someone who cheats on me, it's because I unconsciously signed up for it allthough I should've known better all along.

 

I want to stress in some cases. I had no intention of cheating at all. While some signs might have been there to other people, I was completely faithful for 16 years. But the relationship ended up turning in certain ways, I I ended up making the decision to cheat.

[Darren Steez]

I'm a bit confused. Why not tell your husband about your affair OP? You seem to have come to some convoluted mumbo jumbo reasoning for not telling him the truth.

 

Surely it is better to divorce if unhappy, rather than break your vows and hurt your spouse. Am I wrong?

 

Whatever happened to being honest?

[jnel921]

I don't quite get what your point or question is here thecharade but I will guess and add my 2 cents.

 

BS's aren't broken until our WS break us. I never went into my marriages thinking that the person who I swore to love and honor would dishonor me, tear our family apart and do so by cheating.

 

In any relationship there should be a strong foundation and good communication. When that starts to break down then its time to work on fixing it. Not crap up your M doing hurtful things and when the crap hits the fan you now then decide lets fix this.

 

I cant see how your twisted therapist could advise you to keep such a thing to yourself. This is why I am very picky about the therapists I talked to. I just feel therapists with their own issues make the worst ones!

[AlwaysGrowing]

Where your theory goes off track...is that not ALL WS had issues from the beginning, let alone issues that one could with any accuracy predict infidelity in their arsenal.

 

One FWS and one current WS both stated that they didn't go off the rails in the beginning...infidelity not even on their radar...one said he was offended at the suggestion.

 

Do some? Sure. However, that is true whether infidelity is involved or not. You can just see the relationship is doomed, most often you see the damsel/dumsel in distress and you just know...the other party is going to get exhausted trying to be everything, all the time, day and night...to such a leech of a human being.

 

Placing blame because the BS had the audacity to marry the WS in the first place...omg...how could they not see...they truly just should have opened their eyes a bit more...you know...his mother always said....I warned him...is just so childish. Well, I wouldn't have stolen the cookies if you hadn't bought them....so there!!!!! One can now effectively argue that someone else is to blame for everything now...drunk drivers...not at fault...those that made the beer are responsible...and the car manufacturers.

 

Whoever chooses to use the poor coping skill owns it...in its entirety.

[Journee]

I can only speak for myself but yes, I was/am "broken". I have seen and been through some s#!%. I didn't cope well. Same for my H, we both have some pretty messed up pasts. We found each other and clung to one another. Neither one of us being ready for how serious things became. We were kids with jacked up and completely different views on what love is supposed to look and feel like.

 

It was a recipe for disaster. Both emotionally immature and lacking in real understanding of the other. Intense passion carried us.

 

I brought a lot of crap into our dynamic that honestly most men would had balked at. I made myself hard to love because I was afraid of being hurt anymore from life. I made my H almost an enemy. I had what I know now to be EA's soaking up attention when I felt he neglected me. He had brief flings to bandage his own gaping holes.

 

We should had not married at the time we did. We should had both done the major work on ourselves that was necessary for us to be half way fit for a relationship. I think age and time would had brought that but at 18 I fell for him. Shoulda, woulda.

 

We are both in a really good place right now that I had not seen coming for myself. I have mentioned it before but we brought our pain before God and once he forgave us we started to forgive one another. I'm not going to punish him for the ick from my past any longer.

 

There are no guarantees in this life aside from death I suppose. If it all blows up in our faces in another way we will get down to the bones of it again or decide that D is the answer. It's obvious from reading on this site that no one has the answers. No one has it figured out and we all fall short in one way or another. There are other things in marriage aside from infidelity that can devastate and be abusive. I know that's a hot button word here lately...but I really believe that some of my defensive/self preservation behavior was abusive to my H. It certainly didn't protect my M. You know what though? He is here now with me and I am more present than I have ever been.

 

So, while I can take responsibility for my crap behavior he can also take responsibility for his. Are his trespasses worse than mine? By whose standards? It is not the end all be all of our lives. Even if years and years from now we call it quits we can at least say we grew as people. In a lot of ways I am glad that this crud took place in our youth. Neither of us are yet thirty. Instead of it all blowing up after 20 years of marriage and me staying the same person throughout up and until. I'm growing up and that can't be a bad thing. I'm not a betrayed spouse, I'm a spouse. I betrayed my H in many ways too by not being the partner I took vows to be.

 

Not all marriages started off on such a bad note. Not all people are dealt the same cards in life. This is only my experience like it or lump it.