Should I consider breaking temporary no contact with my gf? [update: ambushed!]

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

I've read a lot about this condition and have even done a presentation on it in class nearly a year ago, and this was all inspired by her. I know it must be tough to live with this condition, and I'd like to tell you that you have my respect for dealing with it in the way that you are.

 

I've asked her to go to counseling with me, and she refuses. I'm almost sure she's BPD, but haven't mentioned a word about it to her. I feel that a professional should be the one to bring something like that up, for obvious reasons. She'd probably lose her mind if I suggested that she had "a disorder," but a professional could diagnose her and get her the help she needs.

 

Thank you for your reply. Your words are extremely helpful.

 

I agree that she will probably not take well to you "diagnosing" her. I'm sure she has a talent for dismissing things from people she doesn't put on a pedestal.

 

I really couldn't be told anything. Even when I was diagnosed, it was years before I gave it any real consideration. Even then it was more years before I was able to approach things differently than I always had. Three 2week long in-patient stays at mental health facilities did nothing to help.

 

I don't know how to make any of that smoother or go faster.

[Simon Phoenix]

Thanks, Simon.

 

Yes, I agree that my letting it slide has probably had an enabling effect. The more I stick around, the worse it gets. And before, after she calmed down from an anger episode, she used to apologize profusely. Now, she won't even do that.

 

And she also insists that I take responsibility for whatever the problem is, even if I did everything in my power to keep it from happening. About 2 weeks ago, she did this and went back and forth with me all day until like 4am the next morning until I admitted I was wrong for not figuring out a way to make things go as she wanted in spite of the fact that she admitted sabotaging it to begin with.

 

Sigh... whatever. This is likely to be a lost cause.

 

This girl sounds toxic bro. Sorry man. I know it's what you don't want to hear. It's tough, but sometimes you have to make tough decisions and hard calls and be willing to throw it all away for things to actually change in your life or to change in the life of others.

 

I've never had a woman I've dated treat me like you are being treated, but I did deal with a situation with my younger sister that sounds similar. My sister had a tendency to get frustrated with things and turn on whoever was with her. Because her and I are polar opposites in many ways, I often would become the scapegoat. I used to yell back and/or ignore her, hoping she'd shut up. She'd apologize shortly afterward but the next time I was around and she was feeling this way, she'd be in my face again.

 

Anyway, she was visiting me a few years back with some of her friends and for whatever reason, she got annoyed by something and started dumping on me. I stormed off and went home, leaving her at her hotel. The next day before she went out of town she did her "I'm sorry we fought, but it was great seeing you" thing and I absolutely went off. I told her that it was not great seeing her, that I'm sick and tired of how she lashes out at me and others, that she is disrespectful and that I'm her older brother and if she wants to continue to have a relationship with me that she's going to have to change her attitude. I told her that if she doesn't, then I have no problem cutting her out of my life, because it had gone way past being acceptable.

 

She was obviously shocked by this and tried to shift the blame to me, to which I told her that if that's the way she wants to play it that she can have a nice life and I guess I'll see her at next family holiday, but I don't plan on talking to her. I didn't tell my parents that I did this -- I let her tell them. And every one of them (two parents, two stepparents) told her that I was right and that I pretty much spoke for everyone in the family and were happy I had the guts to say something about it. This threw her for a loop and she realized that she had to change.

 

Several months later we talked it out and she apologized profusely and that she knew she had to change. And while there's an occasional slipup from time to time (which are much less cathartic because she knows not to fu*ck with me), her attitude in general is leaps and bounds better than it was before with me, my other siblings and with my parents. But that never would have happened if I didn't take extreme measures.

[MrBossMan]

I agree with everything she said, no you shouldn't break no contact for the holiday. Yes, you should find someone that values you for what/who you are. Stop letting someone treat you like garbage.

 

I will consider this. Still weighing the possibility of just a "Happy Thanksgiving" just to be civil, and then continue nc. Do you think it will be more hurtful than helpful to my cause?

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

I will consider this. Still weighing the possibility of just a "Happy Thanksgiving" just to be civil, and then continue nc. Do you think it will be more hurtful than helpful to my cause?

 

I think you need to be solid and look solid in her eyes.

 

Wishy-Washy stuff will keep her clinging on and she'll want to reach out even more.

[MrBossMan]

I agree that she will probably not take well to you "diagnosing" her. I'm sure she has a talent for dismissing things from people she doesn't put on a pedestal.

 

I really couldn't be told anything. Even when I was diagnosed, it was years before I gave it any real consideration. Even then it was more years before I was able to approach things differently than I always had. Three 2week long in-patient stays at mental health facilities did nothing to help.

 

I don't know how to make any of that smoother or go faster.

 

It looks like it may take a lot of painful experiences for someone to actually want to change for themselves. And I don't think she's anywhere near this point, as either you or someone else mentioned earlier.

 

More reason to walk.

 

This sucks because I've always been such a picky guy with women, and I gave her a chance, and then this side came out. I don't expect perfection, but I just need enough to work with. The way she is now just won't work, no matter how much of a beat down I'm willing to endure (and I've endured a lot so far).

[Simon Phoenix]

I will consider this. Still weighing the possibility of just a "Happy Thanksgiving" just to be civil, and then continue nc. Do you think it will be more hurtful than helpful to my cause?

 

I think it's an absolutely awful idea. I mean, this woman basically treats you like dirt. The last thing you should be worried about is looking civil. You won't look civil, you'll look emasculated.

[MrBossMan]

This girl sounds toxic bro. Sorry man. I know it's what you don't want to hear. It's tough, but sometimes you have to make tough decisions and hard calls and be willing to throw it all away for things to actually change in your life or to change in the life of others.

 

I've never had a woman I've dated treat me like you are being treated, but I did deal with a situation with my younger sister that sounds similar. My sister had a tendency to get frustrated with things and turn on whoever was with her. Because her and I are polar opposites in many ways, I often would become the scapegoat. I used to yell back and/or ignore her, hoping she'd shut up. She'd apologize shortly afterward but the next time I was around and she was feeling this way, she'd be in my face again.

 

Anyway, she was visiting me a few years back with some of her friends and for whatever reason, she got annoyed by something and started dumping on me. I stormed off and went home, leaving her at her hotel. The next day before she went out of town she did her "I'm sorry we fought, but it was great seeing you" thing and I absolutely went off. I told her that it was not great seeing her, that I'm sick and tired of how she lashes out at me and others, that she is disrespectful and that I'm her older brother and if she wants to continue to have a relationship with me that she's going to have to change her attitude. I told her that if she doesn't, then I have no problem cutting her out of my life, because it had gone way past being acceptable.

 

She was obviously shocked by this and tried to shift the blame to me, to which I told her that if that's the way she wants to play it that she can have a nice life and I guess I'll see her at next family holiday, but I don't plan on talking to her. I didn't tell my parents that I did this -- I let her tell them. And every one of them (two parents, two stepparents) told her that I was right and that I pretty much spoke for everyone in the family and were happy I had the guts to say something about it. This threw her for a loop and she realized that she had to change.

 

Several months later we talked it out and she apologized profusely and that she knew she had to change. And while there's an occasional slipup from time to time (which are much less cathartic because she knows not to fu*ck with me), her attitude in general is leaps and bounds better than it was before with me, my other siblings and with my parents. But that never would have happened if I didn't take extreme measures.

 

Hmm... so there is hope for change.

 

Thanks so much for this.

 

I'm ready to take some extreme measures of my own. I'm the kind of guy who will do everything possible (up to a certain threshold of reason) to make things work. But the problem here is that I fear that it might be too risky.

 

She played nice in the beginning up until the point where she felt that I was attached enough to put up with her bad behavior. So if I employ extreme measures, isn't it possible that she will then resume playing nice until I marry her? At this point, I'd be stuck with her as we both don't believe in casual divorce. She would then do the same thing; go back to losing her mind... except 100 times worse because she'd know that I CAN'T leave as opposed to being unlikely to leave.

 

This is the problem, and I'm not sure if this is a risk I'm willing to take.

[MrBossMan]

I think you need to be solid and look solid in her eyes.

 

Wishy-Washy stuff will keep her clinging on and she'll want to reach out even more.

 

Yeah, you're probably right. Is there a way I can do this without looking weak? Like saying, "Happy Thanksgiving. We need to have a talk soon." And then the next day or day after, I'll then let her know that I'm taking a long break from her. The last thing I said to her was an email where I ripped into her behavior and ended it with the fact that I think a break is in order.

 

What do you think?

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Yeah, you're probably right. Is there a way I can do this without looking weak? Like saying, "Happy Thanksgiving. We need to have a talk soon." And then the next day or day after, I'll then let her know that I'm taking a long break from her. The last thing I said to her was an email where I ripped into her behavior and ended it with the fact that I think a break is in order.

 

What do you think?

 

How exactly did you word your suggestion of a break? Maybe that's enough for now.

[Simon Phoenix]

Hmm... so there is hope for change.

 

Thanks so much for this.

 

I'm ready to take some extreme measures of my own. I'm the kind of guy who will do everything possible (up to a certain threshold of reason) to make things work. But the problem here is that I fear that it might be too risky.

 

She played nice in the beginning up until the point where she felt that I was attached enough to put up with her bad behavior. So if I employ extreme measures, isn't it possible that she will then resume playing nice until I marry her? At this point, I'd be stuck with her as we both don't believe in casual divorce. She would then do the same thing; go back to losing her mind... except 100 times worse because she'd know that I CAN'T leave as opposed to being unlikely to leave.

 

This is the problem, and I'm not sure if this is a risk I'm willing to take.

 

The point of my story was not to give you hope in your situation with her (your situation is likely fu*ked three ways from Sunday) but to tell you that if you want things in your life to change and be better, you have to be willing to make big moves. But if what you got out of my story is that you have a chance with your ex by enabling her, then I'm going to go back and delete it, because that's the last thing your ass needs to be doing. Honestly, you are basically a doormat right now. Instead of hoping she'll change, you have to figure out what self-esteem deficiency you have that would allow you to put up with abuse. Because let's face it, you've been emotionally abused by this woman. The fact that you are talking marriage with her boggles my mind. You need to be gone and stay gone for at least six months, probably more.

 

I mean, my situation had a better chance of direct success because my sister is my blood -- no matter what, we'll still be connected, even if we're estranged. This is not the case with your woman.

[MrBossMan]

I think it's an absolutely awful idea. I mean, this woman basically treats you like dirt. The last thing you should be worried about is looking civil. You won't look civil, you'll look emasculated.

 

I just told the other guy that maybe saying "Happy Thanksgiving. We need to have a serious talk soon." and a day or 2 later, saying that I need a break from the relationship might not make me look weak, but make me look like I'm reasonable and serious.

 

That's just my opinion. You think I should continue my silence so that she'll see that not even a holiday can undo the damage that she has done?

[Simon Phoenix]

Yeah, you're probably right. Is there a way I can do this without looking weak? Like saying, "Happy Thanksgiving. We need to have a talk soon." And then the next day or day after, I'll then let her know that I'm taking a long break from her. The last thing I said to her was an email where I ripped into her behavior and ended it with the fact that I think a break is in order.

 

What do you think?

 

NO COMMUNICATION. None at all. You need to be gone and stay gone. I mean, maybe you can wish her a happy Fourth of July (if you are from the United States) at the earliest.

[MrBossMan]

How exactly did you word your suggestion of a break? Maybe that's enough for now.

 

That's what I said. "I think a break may be in order." And that's the last thing I said to her.

[Simon Phoenix]

I just told the other guy that maybe saying "Happy Thanksgiving. We need to have a serious talk soon." and a day or 2 later, saying that I need a break from the relationship might not make me look weak, but make me look like I'm reasonable and serious.

 

That's just my opinion. You think I should continue my silence so that she'll see that not even a holiday can undo the damage that she has done?

 

Honestly, you are weak though. I'm not saying that to be mean, but to give you an accurate idea of where you are actually at. The only thing that will make you look strong is to leave and stay gone.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Now is the time to draw your line in the sand, or whatever the appropriate phrase is.

 

You have to toughen up a bit and, and by not contacting her, show her that you will not tolerate the way she treats you. It's all by action, no words can really achieve this.

 

The loss, and the full realization of that loss is what she needs to feel. I think it's only for her own good that you don't drop her any breadcrumbs.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Please go through this thread. It's all you need to know.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/406628-critical-readings-separation-divorce

[MrBossMan]

NO COMMUNICATION. None at all. You need to be gone and stay gone. I mean, maybe you can wish her a happy Fourth of July (if you are from the United States) at the earliest.

 

Yes, you're right.

 

I probably reached for the best possible and irrational meaning from your story because that's just how attached I am to this girl. But she really can be terrible.

 

I brought her to my parents house in another state on Thanksgiving, a couple months into our relationship (and she knew that I NEVER bring girls around my family). And she later used it to criticize me. She said that anything my parents asked me to do, I'd jump and obey them and that I should be more dominant.

 

She has also been hesitant to come anywhere near my family members and if she came to my house while any of them where there, she will stay outside.

 

She later said that she's afraid they'll judge her. It's been 2 years in and she will still avoid them like the plague.

[Simon Phoenix]

Yes, you're right.

 

I probably reached for the best possible and irrational meaning from your story because that's just how attached I am to this girl. But she really can be terrible.

 

I brought her to my parents house in another state on Thanksgiving, a couple months into our relationship (and she knew that I NEVER bring girls around my family). And she later used it to criticize me. She said that anything my parents asked me to do, I'd jump and obey them and that I should be more dominant.

 

She has also been hesitant to come anywhere near my family members and if she came to my house while any of them where there, she will stay outside.

 

She later said that she's afraid they'll judge her. It's been 2 years in and she will still avoid them like the plague.

 

At the same time she was criticizing you for jumping and obeying, she realized that she could make you jump and obey. And she's taken full advantage of it it seems.

[MrBossMan]

Honestly, you are weak though. I'm not saying that to be mean, but to give you an accurate idea of where you are actually at. The only thing that will make you look strong is to leave and stay gone.

 

I think that this is the route I may take. But I will probably call her mom, who I'm good friends with, and explain the situation. I went to meet her mom 6-7 months in because she lives in another country. I told her parents about my interest in her, etc.

 

Now get this: They seemed to try to warn me by asking me if I could handle her "moods." I said yes, because at this point, I hadn't really seen what they were talking about.

 

Her mom is probably the most clear-headed person in her family, and many of her anger meltdowns have probably been dealt with through her mom's reasoning. She told me once that her mom always takes my side.

 

I'll let her mom know what the deal is and leave it at that, I think.

[MrBossMan]

Please go through this thread. It's all you need to know.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/406628-critical-readings-separation-divorce

 

Ok, I will. Thanks.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Yes, you're right.

 

I probably reached for the best possible and irrational meaning from your story because that's just how attached I am to this girl. But she really can be terrible.

 

I brought her to my parents house in another state on Thanksgiving, a couple months into our relationship (and she knew that I NEVER bring girls around my family). And she later used it to criticize me. She said that anything my parents asked me to do, I'd jump and obey them and that I should be more dominant.

 

She has also been hesitant to come anywhere near my family members and if she came to my house while any of them where there, she will stay outside.

 

She later said that she's afraid they'll judge her. It's been 2 years in and she will still avoid them like the plague.

 

She's full blown.

 

See, if she's attached to you, she'll use every opportunity to manipulate a conversation or situation to fill her need. If you tried to explain the problem, she would flip things around, play on your sympathy, and not likely give up. She'd scheme of ways to be around you so that she can use your attraction for her to her advantage. Then she'd act fake for awhile until she figures out you aren't coming back. Then she'll unleash the wrath.

 

It's really sad and it's best if you don't let her do that. Best for both of you.

[Simon Phoenix]

I think that this is the route I may take. But I will probably call her mom, who I'm good friends with, and explain the situation. I went to meet her mom 6-7 months in because she lives in another country. I told her parents about my interest in her, etc.

 

Now get this: They seemed to try to warn me by asking me if I could handle her "moods." I said yes, because at this point, I hadn't really seen what they were talking about.

 

Her mom is probably the most clear-headed person in her family, and many of her anger meltdowns have probably been dealt with through her mom's reasoning. She told me once that her mom always takes my side.

 

I'll let her mom know what the deal is and leave it at that, I think.

 

No, no, no, no, no. You don't talk to a family member about this -- talk about looking weak. The mom is not in the relationship, you and your hopefully-soon-to-be-ex are. Silence, silence, silence. This might be the worst idea yet.

[MrBossMan]

At the same time she was criticizing you for jumping and obeying, she realized that she could make you jump and obey. And she's taken full advantage of it it seems.

 

Painfully and pathetically accurate.

 

Know what? I'm usually strong and cut-throat when it comes to women. The last girl I was with, I broke up with her by making her return a borrowed DVD that I liked and disappearing with no discussion. Surprisingly, she connected to me via FB and we're perfectly cool now.

 

This girl had my heart because when she's sweet, she really is sweet. She's like a shy little child that you want to take care of. But then, the other side leaps out without warning or even provocation.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

I think that this is the route I may take. But I will probably call her mom, who I'm good friends with, and explain the situation. I went to meet her mom 6-7 months in because she lives in another country. I told her parents about my interest in her, etc.

 

Now get this: They seemed to try to warn me by asking me if I could handle her "moods." I said yes, because at this point, I hadn't really seen what they were talking about.

 

Her mom is probably the most clear-headed person in her family, and many of her anger meltdowns have probably been dealt with through her mom's reasoning. She told me once that her mom always takes my side.

 

I'll let her mom know what the deal is and leave it at that, I think.

 

A warning to her mother might not be a bad idea in this case. Just a heads up that things are bad... mom has been through this before and probably has some skill in dealing with her. My mother did.

[Simon Phoenix]

Painfully and pathetically accurate.

 

Know what? I'm usually strong and cut-throat when it comes to women. The last girl I was with, I broke up with her by making her return a borrowed DVD that I liked and disappearing with no discussion. Surprisingly, she connected to me via FB and we're perfectly cool now.

 

This girl had my heart because when she's sweet, she really is sweet. She's like a shy little child that you want to take care of. But then, the other side leaps out without warning or even provocation.

 

Well, whatever it is, you need to snap out of it, because you are a doormat right now and it shows in your posting. And if I can see it through the words you type, your girlfriend thinks it times 100.