Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 I think a good start would be for you to recognise your emotional needs. Clearly this situation is not fine. Open marriage wasn't fine. Actually, they were. Open marriage for a couple years was so I could go and experiment with some fantasies. Turns out they weren't as great as my imagination had thought. Wife was right and quite validated. She never got around to exploring anyone else herself. Never found anyone that met her standards. That was for me. This situation is fine because I cannot ask someone to commit to me entirely if that is not where they are in life. She is in a playing the field type of time. She is young. She hasn't experienced 1/8 of what I have, sexually. She has the right to explore, especially if we aren't in a committed relationship. I do not place expectations on those I'm with. I accept people for who they are and decide if they are someone worthwhile. To me, for now, she is.
Iguanna Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Ok seems you have everything figured out regarding your sexual behavior and I applaud you for that. More good girls for the guys who deserve them 1
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 I honestly want to know how people can have open relationships (I can't even imagine open marriage, it's too much for me to even imagine it). I truly want to understand how can you love a person and bear the fact that they touch and make love with someone else. Can you explain it to me please? Sure... no problem. In a good marriage, you love someone for who they are. You love everything about them. You love their quirks and oddities as much as anything else. Most importantly, you have a deep compassion for them and want nothing more than to see your love happy and satisfied with their lives. This becomes your main priority in life. So.... if they missed out on something we sexually, because they got married before trying something out, or just developed a fantasy while married, you do not mind for them to explore that. You are secure in your love, which supersedes the physical. Your connection is strong... so strong that physical does not matter. My ex wife always said, "do whatever you want, but don't let me ever catch you sharing a pizza or watching cartoons with anyone!!!!" and she meant it. Physical is just that. Spiritual/emotional connections are far, far more powerful. Physical cheating a couple times wouldn't cause me to leave someone I love. Emotional cheating? Instantly dumped!!! Make sense? 1
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 Ok seems you have everything figured out regarding your sexual behavior and I applaud you for that. More good girls for the guys who deserve them What is a good girl? One who doesn't get caught? One who represses her desires to explore, then gets married, then divorced later because she is bored with her husband and needs something else? Sex is not love... or is it? I'm as curious about your definition of a good girl as you are about my open marriage stuff. Could you explain?
Emilia Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 What is a good girl? One who doesn't get caught? One who represses her desires to explore, then gets married, then divorced later because she is bored with her husband and needs something else? Are you parents divorced, OP?
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 Are you parents divorced, OP? Most people's are who have baby boomers for parents.... So yes. Divorced at my age 7 due to lots of fighting. The divorce comment comes mostly from seeing all the times the woman gets bored and leaves on this board. Common theme.
Emilia Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Most people's are who have baby boomers for parents.... So yes. Divorced at my age 7 due to lots of fighting. Have you ever noticed the effects of the negative self-talk that being abandoned at such an early age has given you?
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 Have you ever noticed the effects of the negative self-talk that being abandoned at such an early age has given you? Please explain.... ? Would be interested to hear what you are getting at, for sure... Negative self-talk? I'm not familiar with this, but am always looking to improve.
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 I do know I am incapable of relating to men on anything other than a surface level. I tend to get rid of males in my sphere. I'm 100% females for friends and lovers. That can't be normal.... ha ha ha.
Emilia Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Please explain.... ? Would be interested to hear what you are getting at, for sure... Negative self-talk? I'm not familiar with this, but am always looking to improve. Cynicism usually comes from negative self-talk. When you meet someone new you start looking at reasons why she would go for someone else. You are not good enough. You are not rich enough. You are not good looking enough. Other guys are more successful. Why would she want me. I'll have an open marriage because I'm not good enough to keep a woman for the rest of my life so might as well give up now to avoid further disappointment. People who come from secure backgrounds don't think like this. They don't doubt. They just get on with it, when they get married they don't think it will all end in tears. That's because they weren't abandoned when they were little. 1
Iguanna Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 The reason we don't understand each other is cause we have a different definition and purpose of sex in a relationship or marriage. In my eyes sex is something that brings the couple together, it's a private moment that helps them share something unique and this is not for other people to know or see. In your eyes sex is just another part of our lives which gives us pleasure and we have to satisfy our needs, like for example food; nobody will ask from you to stop experimenting with new foods when you get married, and that's how you consider sex as well. I understand it, I respect your point of view, but I can't imagine practicing it in my life. I also respect people who see sex as a pleasure of life and don't overthink it, they just have fun with it. What is bad is when a person like you gets involved with a person like me. People should be honest about their needs and aspects in life so they don't make others suffer. Now regarding what a good girl is. If I give a definition with a series of adjectives it will become dull and not apprehensive. I would prefer to describe how I think a good girl is: a good girl is one who knows her needs but also respects her partner's needs as well. She truly loves her bf/husband for who he is and she doesn't try to change him. She is honest and fair at all times even if she has made a mistake. She is eager to stand up for herself but at the same time be open to hearing her partner's needs as well and try to satisfy him. A good girl is one that you can look in the eyes and see and believe that she is truthful. She doesn't like games, she doesn't find it fair to manipulate people and she will discuss all her concerns with her partner. I don't know how else to explain this, you get the point. Now you probably will ask, can't a girl with your point of views be honest, truthful, fair? She can of course. But sadly I consider people who treat sex as another pleasure of life kinda shallow and superficial. In my eyes the chase for satisfying the body replaces the chase for satisfying the mind, which I find incomparably more important. Also I am afraid that these people, in order to satisfy their endless sexual needs, they sometimes take advantage of people in my category who just want to find a person to share their lives with, to be connected with mind and soul with them. So I am not really sure how good such a girl can be at the end of the day. (I'm sorry, my english is not great, I did my best to explain to you my thoughts :S) 2
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 Cynicism usually comes from negative self-talk. When you meet someone new you start looking at reasons why she would go for someone else. You are not good enough. You are not rich enough. You are not good looking enough. Other guys are more successful. Why would she want me. I'll have an open marriage because I'm not good enough to keep a woman for the rest of my life so might as well give up now to avoid further disappointment. People who come from secure backgrounds don't think like this. They don't doubt. They just get on with it, when they get married they don't think it will all end in tears. That's because they weren't abandoned when they were little. Fascinating... I am not sure these are things I actually think, but i'll certainly admit to plenty of cynicism in general. But remember... my open marriage was because I wanted to explore, not because my ex did. My thanking with the new girl here is that I'm 18 years older than her. She is just starting out. She doesn't know who she is and is a very free spirit. I don't want to hold her down or control her in any way. I'd prefer she came to me naturally, out of her own free will, when ready, if at all. She is not ready, but she sure is fun and great to be with when we are together. Scary part is... I actually have the opposite thoughts to negative self talk and try to tone them down and be more humble. I think Im better than my competition, I know I have more financial means, Looks... it's tough to compete with guys 18 years younger, but I'm holding my own... lol, I'm one of the more successful guys out there - I created a job for her at about $30/hr because I felt like it - spent a grand partying for 2 nights in nyc with her last weekend, and have open marriages because I respect the other person's freedom. The negativity comes from seeing what happens time and time again on this board where the woman gets bored and bails on the husband, actually.
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) The reason we don't understand each other is cause we have a different definition and purpose of sex in a relationship or marriage. In my eyes sex is as something that brings the couple together, it's a private moment that helps them share something unique and this is not for other people to know or see. In your eyes sex is just another part of our lives which gives us pleasure and we have to satisfy our needs, like for example food; nobody will ask from you to stop experimenting with new foods when you get married, and that's how you consider sex as well. I understand it, I respect your point of view, but I can't imagine practicing it in my life. I also respect people who see sex as a pleasure of life and don't overthink it, they just have fun with it. What is bad is when a person like you gets involved with a person like me. People should be honest about their needs and aspects in life so they don't make others suffer. Now regarding what a good girl is. If I give a definition with a series of adjectives it will become dull and not apprehensive. I would prefer to describe how I think a good girl is: a good girl is one who knows her needs but also respects her partner's needs as well. She truly loves her bf/husband for who he is and she doesn't try to change him. She is honest and fair at all times even if she has made a mistake. She is eager to stand up for herself but at the same time be open to hearing her partner's needs as well and try to satisfy him. A good girl is one that you can look in the eyes and see and believe that she is truthful. She doesn't like games, she doesn't find it fair to manipulate people and she will discuss all her concerns with her partner. I don't know how else to explain this, you get the point. Now you probably will ask, can't a girl with your point of views be honest, truthful, fair? She can of course. But sadly I consider people who treat sex as another pleasure of life kinda shallow and superficial. In my eyes the chase for satisfying the body replaces the chase for satisfying the mind, which I find incomparably more important. Also I am afraid that these people, in order to satisfy their endless sexual needs, they sometimes take advantage of people in my category who just want to find a person to share their lives with, to be connected with mind and soul with them. So I am not really sure how good such a girl can be at the end of the day. (I'm sorry, my english is not great, I did my best to explain to you my thoughts :S) That was awesome! Thank you for explaining. That is, indeed, a great way to be... and 95% of the time, even in an open marriage, it is like that. And definitely... 100% honesty and communication is the only way to go. Couldn't agree more. I can't see a single thing wrong with your description. That was beautiful. PS: In all my sexual exploration, I have come to the conclusion that sex with someone you love is always the best anyway. Edited November 28, 2013 by theothersully
Emilia Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Fascinating... I am not sure these are things I actually think, but i'll certainly admit to plenty of cynicism in general. But remember... my open marriage was because I wanted to explore, not because my ex did. My thanking with the new girl here is that I'm 18 years older than her. She is just starting out. She doesn't know who she is and is a very free spirit. I don't want to hold her down or control her in any way. I'd prefer she came to me naturally, out of her own free will, when ready, if at all. She is not ready, but she sure is fun and great to be with when we are together. Rationalisation Scary part is... I actually have the opposite thoughts to negative self talk and try to tone them down and be more humble. I think Im better than my competition, I know I have more financial means, Looks... it's tough to compete with guys 18 years younger, but I'm holding my own... lol, I'm one of the more successful guys out there - I created a job for her at about $30/hr because I felt like it - spent a grand partying for 2 nights in nyc with her last weekend, and have open marriages because I respect the other person's freedom. Sure. Not saying you don't have confidence in yourself it's just that perhaps you could spend some time tracking how you think. The negativity comes from seeing what happens time and time again on this board where the woman gets bored and bails on the husband, actually. Now, why would other people's problems bother you? Why see the glass half empty?
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 Rationalisation Sure. Not saying you don't have confidence in yourself it's just that perhaps you could spend some time tracking how you think. Now, why would other people's problems bother you? Why see the glass half empty? Wow, this is cool. You are really challenging my thinking here. Love it! So you think I'm just rationalizing by respecting the other person's needs... that I should stand up and demand something more. Exclusively? You know, she is like a bird in a tree... Not easy and flutters away at the slightest movement. Let me get a little more foothold here and see what happens. I got her by a feather, but here is something interesting: She made plans with me to go to NY from Miami. She then canceled them last minute, having something to do. I said it wouldn't affect work, but I was done with her on a personal level, being the second time she canceled. She was then ready, suitcase packed, within an hour. So you think I'm being too easy on her? I could probably ratchet down on her, but I'm thinking she would just cheat anyway. Not negative self talk... just that I know her very well. Gotcha on tracking how I think... will do. I am driven by statistics and data. The data I have collected on this forum says boredom and sexual problems cause many marriages and relationships to fail. Rather than work at it, many just up and leave. So... not negative or positive, just an honest read of the data.
Emilia Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Wow, this is cool. You are really challenging my thinking here. Love it! So you think I'm just rationalizing by respecting the other person's needs... that I should stand up and demand something more. Exclusively? You know, she is like a bird in a tree... Not easy and flutters away at the slightest movement. Let me get a little more foothold here and see what happens. I got her by a feather, but here is something interesting: She made plans with me to go to NY from Miami. She then canceled them last minute, having something to do. I said it wouldn't affect work, but I was done with her on a personal level, being the second time she canceled. She was then ready, suitcase packed, within an hour. So you think I'm being too easy on her? I could probably ratchet down on her, but I'm thinking she would just cheat anyway. Not negative self talk... just that I know her very well. Or you could get someone who wants you and with whom you would have to make a go at things properly. A scary thought? I'm not being sarcastic but serious. How about finding someone with whom things could actually get serious with a chance? Rather than chase after something that will never happen and something that is always just slightly out of your grasp therefore saving you from serious emotional commitment? I am driven by statistics and data. The data I have collected on this forum says boredom and sexual problems cause many marriages and relationships to fail. Rather than work at it, many just up and leave. So... not negative or positive, just an honest read of the data. I am driven by data too, I'm an analyst so I see bias. Yes it is true that many fail. However, by no means all. 2
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 Or you could get someone who wants you and with whom you would have to make a go at things properly. A scary thought? I'm not being sarcastic but serious. How about finding someone with whom things could actually get serious with a chance? Rather than chase after something that will never happen and something that is always just slightly out of your grasp therefore saving you from serious emotional commitment? I am driven by data too, I'm an analyst so I see bias. Yes it is true that many fail. However, by no means all. Damn... you're good. I feel like I'm fencing with Zorro here. Here we come to the actual problem. I have another thread on this somewhere. I have no clue what I want in life anymore since my divorce wiped out my life's plans. What i do know is that I get lonely. I do lots of interesting, fun things and enjoy sharing them with people. I do not enjoy doing fun things alone. I am happy reading alone, etc... , but not fun stuff. I also need some sexual fun too. That's about all i know. Because I'm not sure what I'm looking for, or if I'm even ready for another relationship (and negative self talk crash and burn... on her end or mine), this little fling seems like just the right fit at this point. Does that make any sense? 1
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 I do long to get back to normal, but I'm not there yet. Still lost. 1
Emilia Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Of course it makes sense. It took me a long time to recover from my divorce and losing someone else after that to an illness set me back again. I can't tell you whether I'll ever find the way. All these things I've been through myself. Hence my clarity on it. I'll have a look at your other thread though I don't know whether it's possible to get through this faster or whether it's just best to let yourself heal naturally. The only thing I absolutely believe in though is that you MUST work out your emotional needs and not deny them. Don't hide behind rationality. 1
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 Of course it makes sense. It took me a long time to recover from my divorce and losing someone else after that to an illness set me back again. I can't tell you whether I'll ever find the way. All these things I've been through myself. Hence my clarity on it. I'll have a look at your other thread though I don't know whether it's possible to get through this faster or whether it's just best to let yourself heal naturally. The only thing I absolutely believe in though is that you MUST work out your emotional needs and not deny them. Don't hide behind rationality. Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to delve into this strangeness. Your posts have helped and got me thinking. They are much appreciated. 1
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) 1) Met and dated years ago. 2) Rekindled a year ago 3) Had a whirlwind of fun and passion in Miami last winter 4) I had to go to NY for the summer, she had classes in Miami. 5) Picked back up this fall, doing more together. 6) She was struggling to pay for school and life. I asked her for some numbers to see what was wrong. She was making $9.50/hr. That broke my heart. Her contribution to this earth through volunteer work, environmental causes, etc... is beyond measure. 7) I fixed the problem by creating a position for her at nearly triple the pay 8) She lost her phone last weekend and started using the corporate phone for personal stuff. There is no issue with this on my end, but all corporate phone are routinely monitored here. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/445477-i-can-see-all-her-text-messages-2.html#post5370409 Edited December 2, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Emilia Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to delve into this strangeness. Your posts have helped and got me thinking. They are much appreciated. It's not that strange. 1
Iguanna Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 What Emilia has said about rationalizing is true. When people have to overcome a problem for which they are not emotionally ready they tend to put some barriers in their own way and then create the reason of their failure in their minds. An example is what I was saying yesterday in the post where the wife lost weight and left. Obese people use to receive such emotional cruelty from other people due to their weight so they start believing that they do suck, they do deserve to be treated like this, they convince themselves they shouldn't ask for much in life cause they don't deserve it, instead of actually doing something to fix the problem. What you seem to do here is, you are scared you can't have a decent relationship so you prefer to accept this fact and act like that's the usual thing to do than actually trying to fight your demons and try to have a good relationship, even if you fail in the end. Failing (again) is not an option for you. You hear other people saying they leave their marriage cause sex is boring and you are so scared not to be one of them that you end up being the exact opposite: the person who treats sex like it's the "god" in our lives. I'm no psychologist but I can see a person hurting and putting on the mask of cynical. I can't blame you. We all have fears and not all of us have the strength to overcome them. If this kind of life satisfies you, go on with it. But if there is a tiny part in you that disagrees, that is unhappy, do something to change it. 2
Author theothersully Posted November 28, 2013 Author Posted November 28, 2013 (edited) You two are brilliant. Thank you so much for pointing out these possibilities. I will try to piece things together. Still, I have no idea what I want from life or a relationship at this point, but when I am ready to start real stuff, you can bet I'll be thinking back to this conversation. I know this girl isn't the right one, despite the many great qualities and compatibility. She has a couple deal breakers. A little too rough around the edges for me: smoking, but trying to quit, occasional drug use, really phones it in on natural and organic foods...eating at a fast food restaurant the other day Edited November 28, 2013 by theothersully
lollipopspot Posted November 28, 2013 Posted November 28, 2013 The problem I see with the text situation is that I'm pretty sure that she's ignorant about these business practices and has no idea that you monitor the texts. She may or may not realize that you COULD, but I think she doesn't know that you DO. I think ethically you need to make clear to her that part of your job is monitoring texts on the company phones, and you do in fact do this. Then it's up to her if she wants to keep using the phones for personal business.
Recommended Posts