Dumpees are just as selfish....?

[LostConfused123]

Well, not be Buzz Killington, but 1 month is no time. This road is long and difficult. So, yes, cut yourself some slack, or else you will be beating yourself up for a long time to come... It takes as long as it takes. Just know that you've got peeps in your corner who will support you every step of the way. Stay NC and keep moving forward. Its all you can do

Thank you! You are awesome! I will definitely keep that in mind. It could be a long road. I guess I was feeling that because we were only together since this past spring that I should have "bounced back" by now.... Hell, this time last year I didn't even know he existed.

But your kind words actually made me cry. NOT in a sad way! (I know that probably doesn't make sense...ha ha!) Just touching that I have so many people in my corner that I have never even met.

Thanks again!

[melell]

Lostconfused

 

It stuns me how those short lived romances seems to really get to people and hurt like hell. Don't judge yourself though, so many people experience that same thing despite not being together a long time, it is really common, I hope it never happens to me.

 

You will get through it, promise.

[LostConfused123]

Lostconfused

 

It stuns me how those short lived romances seems to really get to people and hurt like hell. Don't judge yourself though, so many people experience that same thing despite not being together a long time, it is really common, I hope it never happens to me.

 

You will get through it, promise.

Thank you!! Truly means a lot!

I was so scared that I would be in here ALL day on Thanksgiving but now I will forgive myself if I have to come in and take a peek

 

Yeah, the short ones really suck because I never got to know his flaws (I'm know he's got them, we all do) It was still the honeymoon phase I guess.

I never expected to go through the holidays without him. Just never occurred to me.

 

So glad I found this site! Helps tremendously!!!! ((hugs))

[ponchsox]

Yes, I stayed in a bad relationship that she ultimately ended out of selfishness and a sexual need. I'm using this time alone for self reflection and to figure out what I truly want.

Edited November 25, 2013 by ponchsox

[NoMoreJerks]

Hurting because of being dumped, and struggling with it, has nothing to do with narcissism. We are all inherently selfish to a certain degree. Narcissism isn't about that, trust me. I can say that as someone who had to deal with a full-blown NPD. And no, I don't have a psych degree, but I do think my personal experience made me really aware of what are really key traits of a narc.

 

Anyway, people take time to heal, some more than others. There are personal issues and self-esteem issues involved, but I don't think hurting and wanting someone back, is about being selfish -- any more than we are all selfish.

 

Dumpers will often manipulate their exes/dumpees, by telling them that they're selfish for not wanting the relationship to end. That is not a sign of selfishness, any more than loving someone is a selfish act. Sure, if it assumes psychotic proportions (like stalking, etc.) then there is a big problem, and a deeper underlying issue (and narcissists do not chase after people like that -- they actually devalue people who don't give them narc supply). More likely, people who threaten to kill themselves if their partner breaks up with them, etc., are borderline (Borderline personality disorder) and not narcissistic. Anyway, selfishness has nothing to do with wanting to make the relationship work. Sometimes people want to make things work, because they are in shock about the breakup (usually it comes out of the blue) and blame themselves and want to fix their behavior because they think that this is what prompted the break-up. I did this before, with my narc ex, actually. And my ex ate it all up and made me think it was all about that, when it really was about him. Was I being selfish? No, I don't think so: i didn't force him to stick around. He decided to do that, for his own selfish reasons (selfish because he didn't want to stay, but thought he could get something out of me by doing so). He turned me into his little doormat and could get me to do anything he wanted me to do, including pressuring me into arranging a threesome for him (with me and another woman). Anyway, I was bewildered by the sudden break-up, and he made me feel like it was my fault, so I scrambled to fix myself, change my behavior, etc. Our reaction often has to do with what they say and how the break-up is done.

[NoMoreJerks]

The normal healing time is , I'd say about 6 months or a bit more. Depends on how long the relationship was and the circumstances (first love, lost virginity to him, etc.). But anything more than a year is stretching it, IMO. If someone isn't over their ex after a year of grieving the loss, I'd want to look into their thought process/feelings. Sometimes, if someone is a narcissist, being hurt/abandoned by a partner, will deal a huge blow to his ego that he will not recover from easily, but narcissists are usually quite good at putting on appearances and moving on effectively (though not deep down). They will never forgive the person who hurt their ego, IMO. And they might seek revenge, etc. Anything that borders on that sort of behavior is not healthy/normal, IMO, and indicates deep problems including possible narcissism.

[NoMoreJerks]

I definitely agree. When it is temporary it is normal, but when it goes on for a long time it is not so good. I don't mean so much that people are narcissists, but that sometimes it can reflect those 'symptoms'. Like if you replaced 'others' with 'dumper'

 

 

• Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments wanting contact, pining for validation, expecting the ex to recognize how wonderful you are
  
• Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement the mentality that the dumper is a villain if they don't offer these things
  
• Envies others and believes others envy him/her the dumper is great, but horrible for not returning the admiration
  
• Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others not accepting the dumpers perspective
  
• Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior feels that what they are thinking is the only answer- the dumper doesn't get it.
  
• Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic feels they should be wanted by the dumper
  

I think that this way of thinking could backfire and really limit the ability to heal. I was wondering if maybe people who get 'stuck' have some of these perspectives holding them up.

 

Actually, this is pretty much just being hung up on what the dumper does. I really doubt someone would get stuck because of this unless they were in contact.

I honestly don't think that wanting validation from someone makes one a narcissist. Narcissism isn't about any one trait, it's about a combination, and narcissists lack empathy. We all want validation from people, in one form or another.We want our achievements/efforts recognized, etc. -- that has nothing to do with having narcissistic personality disorder. You are stretching this, and your claim basically translates to: any dumpee who doesn't act like a zombie who doesn't give a toss about the break-up, is a narcissist. I also don't think most people villainize their exes after a break-up, if the break-up was done in a respectful way (not via text/email, and explanations or closure was given) and there was no cheating involved, etc. In my case, I will always think of my ex as a villain because he was a massive jerk, an abusive person (immense verbal abuse for a year, as well as pressure on me to do certain sex acts that I wasn't comfortable with), as well as a cheater. No matter which way you cut it, my ex was an evil jerk who tricked me and told me he loved me, because he wanted to get narcissistic supply from me and sex ( including a threesome, that he couldn't get from his ex-gfs or other women he had slept around with).

[MoooOinkBaaa]

This thread is insane, dumpees who have done nothing majorly wrong are not selfish.

 

Love is something you can't explain so how can I explain heartbreak. I guess I'm selfish during and after the relationship because I have feelings for someone which affect my own emotions.

 

I still can't get her out of my mind, or my dreams. I missed her in the relationship and I miss her out of it. Even though she is the one who gave up something we had after seven years.

 

I waited seven years in that LDR to be together. No more counting down the days, travelling hundreds of miles, painful goodbyes. We could finally live together like we always wanted, then...

 

She dumped me.

 

I think the people that take longer to recover are those who heavily invested in their partners. I still love her even though she is totally different now and she's regressed from the person she was in many ways.

 

I can honestly say I've never thought about being with anyone else except her during those seven years. I still love her today like I always have. I thought we would grow old together.

 

I guess I'm just a selfish narcissist to believe something so silly.

Edited November 25, 2013 by MoooOinkBaaa

[LostConfused123]

This thread is insane, dumpees who have done nothing majorly wrong are not selfish.

 

Love is something you can't explain so how can I explain heartbreak. I guess I'm selfish during and after the relationship because I have feelings for someone which affect my own emotions.

 

I still can't get her out of my mind, or my dreams. I missed her in the relationship and I miss her out of it. Even though she is the one who gave up something we had after seven years.

 

I waited seven years in that LDR to be together. No more counting down the days, travelling hundreds of miles, painful goodbyes. We could finally live together like we always wanted, then...

 

She dumped me.

 

I think the people that take longer to recover are those who heavily invested in their partners. I still love her even though she is totally different now and she's regressed from the person she was in many ways.

 

I can honestly say I've never thought about being with anyone else except her during those seven years. I still love her today like I always have. I thought we would grow old together.

 

I guess I'm just a selfish narcissist to believe something so silly.

I know this won't help but just wanted to tell you that I'm so sorry for your pain! And this one REALLY won't help but I'm going to say it anyway....... HER LOSS BIG TIME!!!

 

LOL!!! I know, I hate that one too!

 

Hope your healing progresses as quick as possible!

[melell]

I honestly don't think that wanting validation from someone makes one a narcissist. Narcissism isn't about any one trait, it's about a combination, and narcissists lack empathy. We all want validation from people, in one form or another.We want our achievements/efforts recognized, etc. -- that has nothing to do with having narcissistic personality disorder. You are stretching this, and your claim basically translates to: any dumpee who doesn't act like a zombie who doesn't give a toss about the break-up, is a narcissist. I also don't think most people villainize their exes after a break-up, if the break-up was done in a respectful way (not via text/email, and explanations or closure was given) and there was no cheating involved, etc. In my case, I will always think of my ex as a villain because he was a massive jerk, an abusive person (immense verbal abuse for a year, as well as pressure on me to do certain sex acts that I wasn't comfortable with), as well as a cheater. No matter which way you cut it, my ex was an evil jerk who tricked me and told me he loved me, because he wanted to get narcissistic supply from me and sex ( including a threesome, that he couldn't get from his ex-gfs or other women he had slept around with).

 

You completely missed the point.

[NoMoreJerks]

You completely missed the point.

I don't think I did. You've been comparing dumpees to narcissists throughout this thread, comparing characteristics/traits of their behavior, etc. Fact is, having or more of these behavioral traits does not make one a narcissist. You seem pretty adamant that there is something selfish about people not wanting to be broken up with, but how is that more selfish than loving someone and getting into a relationship with them? You want to shift the blame onto the dumpee, claiming that he/she should snap out of it, and if he/she doesn't, he/she must be a narcissist. WHAT? As I stated, most of the time that dumpees react the way they do so because they are made to believe (intentionally or due to lack of a real explanation for the breakup) that they were the ones responsible for the breakdown of the relationship. Naturally, many people therefore think that if only they are given the chance to "fix" themselves and "alter" their behavior, they can make the relationship work. But that was NEVER the point. In most cases, people are dumped not because of something they did or the way they are, but for selfish reasons having nothing to do at all with the dumpee. I think that rather than claiming that dumpees are selfish for wanting to make a relationship work that they invested so much of their life, feelings, etc. into, you should focus on the selfishness that prompts dumpers into making such a unilateral decision, into giving up on something without talking things through and trying to fix what they are unhappy about, etc. It's hard for dumpees to grasp that someone they invested so much time and energy into, someone who claimed to love them so much and spent years with them, can now be so selfish as to unilaterally leave the relationship without so much as giving them a clear explanation. Selfish? No, I think anyone who reacts to such behavior with confusion, anger, depression, and sometimes even desperation, is PERFECTLY NORMAL and not one bit selfish. Your argument is the exact opposite: that anyone who does react that way, is selfish and might even be a narcissist. You are plain wrong, I am sorry to say. Some dumpers manage to manipulate their exes and convince them into thinking that they were selfish, clingy, etc., and that this was why they left. Maybe you had such an ex. But if you did, I really hope you can look beyond the manipulation and see things for what they are: that you're not selfish to be reacting to being dumped in the way that most people would.

Edited November 25, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[melell]

Yeah, you're still missing it.

[Am4Real]

You're right about one thing, you "know little about psychology"

 

I really am starting to feel like the people who hurt a lot and for the longest time are the most self involved.

 

I get that there are sometimes issues with self esteem etc underpinning it, but sometimes I can't help but think that some people are really selfish, and that is why they hold on. -like can't look outside of themselves?

 

I know little about psychology- copied this from wiki... some 'symptoms' of narcissism

 

 

 

• Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
  
• Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
  
• Envies others and believes others envy him/her
  
• Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
  
• Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
  
• Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
  
• Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic
  

 

Couldn't some off this be applied to what people struggle with after a break up?

 

This is just something I have been thinking after reading a lot of posts. It is not something I am dead set on, or a perspective I am particularly fond of.

 

Thoughts?

[mtnbiker3000]

The normal healing time is , I'd say about 6 months or a bit more.

 

I disagree. It takes as long as it takes. There is no magic number or formula. To even suggest a 'set time' is a bad idea and may lead people to feel like they are not moving fast enough.

[NoMoreJerks]

I disagree. It takes as long as it takes. There is no magic number or formula. To even suggest a 'set time' is a bad idea and may lead people to feel like they are not moving fast enough.

Well, I did say it might take more or less, so I wasn't setting a time frame necessarily, but there is something illogical to someone not getting over a breakup for 2 years. It indicates an inability or unwillingness to face one's problems, maybe even laziness.

[mtnbiker3000]

Well, I did say it might take more or less, so I wasn't setting a time frame necessarily, but there is something illogical to someone not getting over a breakup for 2 years. It indicates an inability or unwillingness to face one's problems, maybe even laziness.

 

Maybe. I can tell you that as I approach 9 months, I have been working tirelessly at recovery. Therapy, reading books, watching DVD's, reading and posting here and a lot of self reflection and analysis. As well as all of the other things such as getting out, dating, hanging with friends, working out, indulging in travel and hobbies, etc...

 

And, although I am in much, much better shape than even 3 or 4 months ago, I still struggle daily. I realize I may never fully 'get over' this. I really don't know. I just keep moving forward. This RS and BU was a huge deal for me. Like nothing I have ever been through. I don't really know what to expect in the upcoming weeks / months. But that's OK. I really don't have a choice.

[Am4Real]

I remember well your posts from the beginning. Looks like you're moving in the right direction...good for you!

 

As for timeframes I will agree, there are none. There are too many variables.

 

However, NOMOREJERKS makes a good point although she ties a timeframe to it when she states after two years of not getting over the breakup, perhaps the reasons are from within.

 

I agree with that and have seen it happen in people who wallow for great periods, they don't change their cycle, they cling to the past. They create their own world of hopelessness and feeling of lost control. I'm not in agreement with any timeframe on this either, except for anyone who feels they are not making progress, they're stuck or constantly relapsing should seek professional help. Although LS can be a great resource and good outlet, we are all amateurs (for the most part) handing out advice based on personal experience NOT training and we're here on LS, not an accredited University. ;-)

 

 

Maybe. I can tell you that as I approach 9 months, I have been working tirelessly at recovery. Therapy, reading books, watching DVD's, reading and posting here and a lot of self reflection and analysis. As well as all of the other things such as getting out, dating, hanging with friends, working out, indulging in travel and hobbies, etc...

 

And, although I am in much, much better shape than even 3 or 4 months ago, I still struggle daily. I realize I may never fully 'get over' this. I really don't know. I just keep moving forward. This RS and BU was a huge deal for me. Like nothing I have ever been through. I don't really know what to expect in the upcoming weeks / months. But that's OK. I really don't have a choice.

[mtnbiker3000]

I remember well your posts from the beginning. Looks like you're moving in the right direction...good for you!

 

Thanks. Much appreciated!!

 

However, NOMOREJERKS makes a good point although she ties a timeframe to it when she states after two years of not getting over the breakup, perhaps the reasons are from within.

 

Yeah, I wondered why it went from six months to two years??

 

I agree with that and have seen it happen in people who wallow for great periods, they don't change their cycle, they cling to the past. They create their own world of hopelessness and feeling of lost control. I'm not in agreement with any timeframe on this either, except for anyone who feels they are not making progress, they're stuck or constantly relapsing should seek professional help. Although LS can be a great resource and good outlet, we are all amateurs (for the most part) handing out advice based on personal experience NOT training and we're here on LS, not an accredited University. ;-)

 

Good point. Also, I think people who really struggle with making any progress are those who don't practice 100% NC. One thing I have seen on here time and time again is certain people who are months, even years, past a BU and still in the early stages of recovery because they stay in contact with their ex. This WILL definitely cause the recovery process to drag on much longer than if they went 100% NC. That's for sure!!

[Sugarkane]

Yeah, you're still missing it.

 

I also disagree with you. How many people have been cheated on and dumped on here because of the dumpers own selfish needs? Almost everyone?! Or been fed breadcrumbs and lies only to be dropped once the dumpee takes the bait? Or ignored and can't even face you because their cowards (dumpers)?

[ConfusedHumanBeing]

Yeah, you're still missing it.

 

No one is really missing it here. I'm sorry, but your ideas/theories on this are a little too out there.

[melell]

I think to even continue with this there would need to be a complete definition of 'selfish', and there are plenty of paradigms that could do the trick, but none would be complete. Again, people are missing the point of what I am getting at.

[melell]

No one is really missing it here. I'm sorry, but your ideas/theories on this are a little too out there.

 

Maybe, I think I have been taught to discuss from a critical approach. Pointless really. I did have a look, there are quite a few journal articles on this subject, it can't be easily dismissed if people are being published on the topic?

 

Micro theory is always like this though, round and round and pretty pointless.

[Simon Phoenix]

Lostconfused

 

It stuns me how those short lived romances seems to really get to people and hurt like hell. Don't judge yourself though, so many people experience that same thing despite not being together a long time, it is really common, I hope it never happens to me.

 

You will get through it, promise.

 

It's because there's usually no warning to the break-up of short relationships. There usually aren't bumps in the road, it's usually happy scrappy hero puff and then boom, done. That's one reason why short relationships can be tough to shake.

 

The other is that you feel you are just scratching the surface of the potential of the relationship and boom, it's gone. Using a sports analogy, it's like spending a first-round draft pick on a player you think is going to be a future superstar, only to see that guy completely bust quickly due to injury, off-the-field issues, or just bad luck. You've invested so much energy and excitement in this new thing and it sucks when it doesn't come to pass like you hope it would and it tends you set your franchise back severely.

 

As said in the movie The Bronx Tale "There's nothing sadder than wasted talent". And the breakup of short relationships can often be viewed as wasted talent.

 

As for the whole selfish thing, I think it's definitely more a lack of self-esteem and boundaries than "selfishness" that keeps people hooked. I wouldn't call it selfish necessarily -- in fact, most dumpees need a bit of a self-centered "f*ck you, I'm the man/woman" mentality.

[Kevin_D]

Hehe. I have a friend who got dumped about 10 months ago. They had been together for about half a year.

 

He still calls me 2-3 times every week and talks about her for several hours. In-between those calls, he writes to me on Skype about her. And when we meet, the only thing he talks about is her.

 

The funny thing is... Their relationship was an obvious failure from the beginning. He even broke up with her once because he was so tired of her. So he seemed quite alright when it first happened. Then, after a maybe a month, he became obsessed. He would call her, text her and even knock at her door in the middle of the night. For the first few months she was nice to him and comforted him, but after a while she told him that he needs to stop calling her. She has now moved to another town and seems happy with her new life.

 

If you read my thread here, you know that was dumped a couple of weeks ago... after five years. Does my friend really care? Probably not. Because he goes on like this:

 

"Wow, that sucks. I know how you feel. Just called my ex, but she didn't answer... You know what? You're still friends on Facebook, right? You must "like" my profile picture as soon as she logs in, so she sees it!"

 

And on and on it goes. So yeah, some dumpees are really narcissistic. And it's not very fun to live with someone who only talks about themselves, so I guess that these guys tend to get dumped more frequently as well.

[Never Again]

It's because there's usually no warning to the break-up of short relationships. There usually aren't bumps in the road, it's usually happy scrappy hero puff and then boom, done. That's one reason why short relationships can be tough to shake.

 

The other is that you feel you are just scratching the surface of the potential of the relationship and boom, it's gone. Using a sports analogy, it's like spending a first-round draft pick on a player you think is going to be a future superstar, only to see that guy completely bust quickly due to injury, off-the-field issues, or just bad luck. You've invested so much energy and excitement in this new thing and it sucks when it doesn't come to pass like you hope it would and it tends you set your franchise back severely.

 

As said in the movie The Bronx Tale "There's nothing sadder than wasted talent". And the breakup of short relationships can often be viewed as wasted talent.

 

As for the whole selfish thing, I think it's definitely more a lack of self-esteem and boundaries than "selfishness" that keeps people hooked. I wouldn't call it selfish necessarily -- in fact, most dumpees need a bit of a self-centered "f*ck you, I'm the man/woman" mentality.

 

I'll vouch for this, considering I'm still smarting from a breakup of a rather short relationship.

 

The problems in longer relationships are often well known by the time they end, and if things don't change...then there's loads of time for things to fade. The chemical "high" isn't there anymore so it becomes pure choice to stick with it - and when it fails, it can be easier to shrug and soldier on even though such an investment has been made.

 

Breakups can suck double time with short relationships because of the sheer level of dopamine and oxytocin in your system. Honeymoon hormones mean that you're giddy all the time, can sleep less, are more energetic (and more passionate...hence the beginning "boink like rabbits" phase many couples go through), and best of all...they create obsession. That's why someone in a new relationship will miss their partner immensely after just days of being apart. Imagine having that level of bonding and then having the person snatched away. Yikes.

 

Now Simon, which boundaries are you referring to here? The inability to go NC and keep their trap shut about the breakup, or something a little broader? Just curious.

 

Self-esteem and loss are where my money lies. A breakup is like a death in many fashions. Grieving the loss of a close bond and all that. Except in this case, dumpees blame the loss on themselves.

 

Imagine blaming yourself for someone else's death?

 

Within 7 months, I blamed myself for a death and a breakup. They've been equally heart wrenching. The difference is, when you get dumped...there's hope to reverse the process...which just keeps you spinning and refocusing blame.