Going to counseling but I don't know if it's working...

[jc63]

This is my third post, but I'll provide a more in-depth backstory.

 

My W and I have been together 5 years, married 2. She's a nurse and I have been a musician since I was 16. We dated in high school, broke up, got back together after high school and have been together ever since. During our time together, I have always been gone and in the past few months, I was gone more and more. She supported me through it both emotionally and financially but eventually, she got tired of it and I don't blame her. On top of that, I stopped taking care of myself and gained a ton of weight, smoked heavily, and had too low of self esteem to want to be around myself or be seen in public. She's fought this for years but eventually lost her attraction for me and fell out of love. Nearly a month ago, she told me her feelings and left the house, even though she's still paying the bills. She's been staying with friends and family and I've been here alone to think about the awful husband I've been.

 

At 16 years old, I knew that I had found my soulmate and I knew it was her and I've loved her for every minute since, even after she's left me. The problem was: I had personal issues with my childhood that I couldn't let go of and they kept coming back to bite me in the ass. Also, when I stopped enjoying playing music, I know she lost a lot of attraction for me because I was no longer passionate about what I did. Because I was unhappy with my music, I became bitter and angry about everything. While I was gone all the time, she had to figure out how to live by herself and keep close with her friends, which I supported. However, she eventually came to rely on her friends more than her husband. When I realized this, instead of supporting her feelings and trying to work on it, I got jealous and depressed.

 

I now realize that the person I have been within the past year was never me. Since she left, I have lost nearly 25 pounds, I'm quitting smoking, my school work is improving, and I'm beginning to love and forgive myself for the things that I have went though and put her through. She told me last week that she does love me and she missed me, but she's not attracted to me right now and that's a big deal (I agree). But when I think of the person I've been for the past year, I wouldn't be attracted to me either. I asked her if we fixed the attraction thing, if we could save our marriage and she said yes. That alone is motivating me to change who I am because the person I've been is not me.

 

Here's the kicker: I have planned to quit my band on Dec. 31 and we were going to begin travel nursing in Jan. Since we've separated, she still wants to go because she's invested so much into it. She's going without me, but I support her because she deserves the time after what I've put her through. But I'm terrified what 3 months on a travel nurse contract will do to us.

 

We've been going to counseling separately for the past couple of weeks and she finally booked an appointment together in two weeks. I am happy she finally agreed, but that means we only have a few more weeks after that to reconnect. Plus, I don't know if her insurance is going to cover more sessions.

 

I love my wife more than anything in the world, but I don't blame her for falling out of love with me. I was a terrible husband and I left her alone when I should have been home nurturing our marriage with her. Her leaving has given me the motivation for the weight loss, which has given me more confidence and self-esteem. Because of that, I now know that I am good enough for her and I do deserve her but I just want her to see it.

 

 

I'll stop writing so people will actually read this…

 

I can give more details to those who reply

 

Thanks for reading...

[jm2013]

It sounds like you're taking the first step to correcting your problems. Self awareness of your mistakes is big. What's bigger is taking action to correct them. Did she ever let you know about her feelings prior to a month ago when she left?

 

I hope there's not another guy in the picture. When there's infidelity involved it complicates things much more. If there was no infeditlity it sounds like you both may find it easier to rediscover each other once the problems are addressed and fixed. Hopefully you'll both find your answers in counseling. Good luck man.

[jc63]

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

She had told me early this year that she wanted me to leave my band because she missed me and it was really hurting us. However, I was so afraid to let my bandmates down that I didn't realize that I was letting her down by putting it off. She also would tell me that the way I was going about sex was unattractive because I wasn't trying to woo her anymore. Looking back, she gave many hints, I was just too stupid to pick up on them and now I'm paying for it dearly.

 

Since the day she left, I've asked if there was somebody else in the picture. She's told me no and that if there was, her leaving me would have been much easier. I just don't know if it's the truth and the thought of her being with someone else makes me sick to my stomach because I know that neither of us belong with anyone else.

[oldshirt]

You deserve kudos and congratulations on a number of things. the weight loss. the smoking (keep working on in and kick it for good) the improvement in school and you do deserve some credit for realizing that you had dropped the ball and understanding her position. those are all good things and from what you have described, it does sound like she recognizes the work you've put into it and is encouraged by the results and is willing to give it another chance.

 

that's all good and encouraging.

 

 

 

......now quit talking like a pussy and quit talking all the blame and quit putting her on a pedestal.

 

The pedestal is a very very uncomfortable and unstable place. When things fall off the pedestal, they often break.

 

It's good to take ownership of your issues and to work hard to correct them. But self-blame is never attractive and never effective at dealing with issues.

 

Continue to work on your self-improvement and continue with the IC and MC. Counseling does not in and of it'self change anything or fix anything. You can whine and cry and moan to a counselor all day long and it is not going to fix a thing. All counseling can do is help you to identify issues and give you information and suggestions on how to go about working on it. at the end of the day people still have to pull up their bootstraps and go to work and get the job done.

 

It's good that you have taken ownership of your role in her losing attraction for you but she is going to have to take ownership in her issues too.

 

This has to be about how do the two of you work together towards a common goal of reconciling your marriage and having a healthy and functional marriage together.

 

It is not about how can Jc63 rub Mrs Jc63's feet and kiss her ass and cater to all her whims so she forgives him for getting fat.

 

No uh uh. she has to face her demons too and your needs in the marriage are just as important as hers. She doesn't get a free pass because your belly got too big to make her jay-jay tingle.

 

You both need to learn how to communicate together and how to work together and how to each set boundaries and goals and objectives.

 

She may have made your di(k hard enough to crack walnuts when you were 16 and she may still be a nice gal and you may still love her and want to be with her. But there are 3 billion other women in the world and if you are fit and healthy, well dressed, educated, gainfully employed (in a band no less) and have passion and drive, there are going to be plenty of other opportunities out there for you and both you and she need to understand that.

 

She is not a unique, special snowflake and neither are you. people are pretty much like and are attracted to the same traits and characteristics and if you are attractive to other women you will be attractive to her and vice versa.

 

Once you can get over your oneitis and realize there are other women out there and that you won't be destroyed if she walks, then you will actually be able to talk and interact with her in a more direct and more confident manner and she will actually be more inclined to be attracted to you and respect you.

 

Lose the whiney-bitch, "whoa-is-me, I-got-fat-and-distant" persona and address your issues and your objectives and your boundaries head on like a man and don't let fear and insecurity govern your actions, words or decisions and you'll do fine.

 

You did a lot of good work and you got a second chance. That is something to be commended.

[jc63]

This is the best reply I've ever seen, thank you!

 

You're right, I am a man for owning up to my BS and I need to be a man and act confident and realized that she did screw up too. I just hope that me doing that just pushes her further away. We'll see.

 

Oldshirt, thanks for the honesty!

[Mr. Lucky]

......now quit talking like a pussy and quit talking all the blame and quit putting her on a pedestal.

 

jc63, I'll also say good job on the changes you've made.

 

But it would be easier to agree with oldshirt had you not abdicated and ignored every responsibility - financial, emotional, physical and social - one has as a husband. Were it me, I'd have kicked you to the curb long ago.

 

I'd very carefully temper my expectations of what she should or shouldn't do. I'd guess she has much resentment to work through...

 

Mr. Lucky

[oldshirt]

jc63, I'll also say good job on the changes you've made.

 

But it would be easier to agree with oldshirt had you not abdicated and ignored every responsibility - financial, emotional, physical and social - one has as a husband. Were it me, I'd have kicked you to the curb long ago.

 

I'd very carefully temper my expectations of what she should or shouldn't do. I'd guess she has much resentment to work through...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I'm not saying she didn't have just cause for walking. She did.

 

I'm just saying take responsibility now, make the changes and drive on but quit sniveling about it, quit whining and self-blaming about it and don't put her on the pedestal over it.

 

She has just cause in seeing if the changes are the result of permanent change or just an act.

 

But sniveling, self-blaming and self-martyrdom and groveling at her feet are not going to win back her attraction no matter how bad he dropped the ball.

[jc63]

How about this:

 

I screwed up, I get it. I'm getting a job and looking for an apartment for when she goes traveling. But there's one thing I've decided and I need to know if I'm on the right path.

 

My wife is my best friend. I've been her best friend for years although I doubt that's still the case after almost a month of little contact. She has a ton of friends. Frankly, she has enough friends; she needs a man. She wants to see confidence and she wants to know that I can take care of my own sh*t. She's extremely strong-willed and motivated and she needs a man to overpower that. So that's my plan.

 

You guys know how to set it straight and I appreciate it.

Keep it coming.

[Grumpybutfun]

 

You're right, I am a man for owning up to my BS and I need to be a man and act confident and realized that she did screw up too. I just hope that me doing that just pushes her further away.

 

Exactly how did she screw up too? She supported you emotionally and financially and you did everything in your power to sabotage your marriage and yourself. She supported you even when you became depressed, self-absorbed, gained weight, lost interest in the music she sacrificed much of her life and income for and still stayed until she couldn't take it anymore.

 

The only issue I saw that she had is that she enabled a narcissist who used his wife to pursue playing rock star. She is a Saint. She deserves the pedestal, and if you start being all Neanderthal and acting like she doesn't deserve some kudos for that, and she needs to take blame for your own screw ups then I am glad she left you because you are moronic. She is very special because she did try to work with you and beg you and make you listen to her, and out of the 3 billion hypothetical women who apparently are available to you :lmao::lmao::lmao:, there are probably very few who would be so understanding and patient with a man-boy.

 

I'm not going to give you pats on the back for fixing some things after the fact because men who have to wait until the world falls apart to appreciate their wives are a dime a dozen. Men who only see the pain they are causing after their wives leaves are so common it is a cliché.

 

Your only recourse is to change because you want to be a better man and husband and then do everything in your power to jump through any hoops she needs because that is what you have been asking for her to do throughout your entire relationship. She gave you an opportunity for you to pursue your dreams and you repay that by giving up on life, your health, your relationship and those dreams and ignoring her basic needs in the process, and then claims she has issues. How much does a woman have to take before it is okay for her to stand up for herself?

 

If she meant so little to you that you can just move on to those 3 billion other women :lmao::lmao: then give her up now and let a real man have her who appreciates her because she did for you what few modern women would have done, she was your entire support for years without getting much out of it. Maybe nothing but grief out of it.

 

Keep going to counseling because you still don't get it,

Grumpy

[Grumpybutfun]

How about this:

 

She's extremely strong-willed and motivated and she needs a man to overpower that. So that's my plan.

 

That is your plan? SMH. No, you don't get it at all. If she hadn't been strong willed and motivated you both would be starving , put in the cold and living on the street. Out power that? Out power the thing that kept you both solvent and alive? Are you for real?

She needs you to be responsible and grow up and deal with your abuse and childhood issues and become someone she can depend on who actually gives a crap about something other than himself and his needs.

Find a better therapist,

G

[Mr. Lucky]

I screwed up, I get it. I'm getting a job and looking for an apartment for when she goes traveling.

T Nearly a month ago, she told me her feelings and left the house, even though she's still paying the bills.

jc63, I'll start by saying I have quite a few artistic friends, most of them musicians. And when it comes to real-world sensibilities, there's a different approach than the rest of us working stiffs.

 

And so I recognize "I'm getting a job", having heard it from several music playing ex-roommates when the rent was coming due. It means "sometime in the future, just not today".

 

Holy sh*t my friend, even though she's moved out, she's paying your bills. And that's how you want her to see you?

 

Were it me, I'd be cooking at Denny's or McDonald's tonight and earning a paycheck. Then she - and other posters here - might take your "new leaf" more seriously...

 

Mr. Lucky

[littlejaz]

Having been on the other end of a relationship much like yours, my husband did not travel and he did work, but he wasn't engaged in the relationship. He left everything up to me. He was not there for me emotionally or financially. I can tell you what I wanted: a life partner, someone to share the good and bad times with, a shoulder to cry on when times were bad, someone to hold me and tell me everything was going to be okay and was interested in making a plan to make it okay. She has been the strong one, the responsible one for so long, she feels she has been in this all by herself and had the added responsibility of propping you up along the way. Who has been there for her to lean on? She doesn't want some macho, strong man to come in and take things over. She wants someone to share her life with. She wants to know that you are strong enough and care enough to let her lean on you at times. And I guarantee you that she is tired of the whining and the depression. She hasn't had the luxury of feeling depressed or whining because she has had too much responsibility. She's known for quite some time that if she didn't take care of things, you sure as hell weren't going to.

 

She needs to see that you realize the type of person you had become and that you take full responsibility for it, no excuses or justifications for it. My STBXH blamed his whooful lot in life on the fact that he grew up without a father. He totally discounted the fact that he had a loving mother and siblings and an involved extended family. He also totally ignored the fact that I grew up without a father also. Had he put in half the effort it sounds like you are putting into working on yourself we might not be getting divorced.

 

She needs to see that you are doing these things because you don't like the person you have become not because you don't want to loose her. She knows that if you are doing it for her then it will not last and you will eventually resent her for it if things don't work out. And that just puts more responsibility on her shoulders. She is not responsible for your happiness. You are. So my advice is stop whining, keep working on yourself, and don't try to convince her that you are doing all this work just for her. Let her know that you are doing it because you don't like what you see in the mirror and that just maybe in the process the two of you can find your way back to each other. You might also let her know that you understand and appreciate all the sacrifices she made for you.

 

Grumpy is right, even if she did make mistakes, now is not the time to bring them up. To her that will feel like you are blame shifting and justifying your actions. You have to get yourself in order before you can work on the relationship, then you may be able to address any issues you have with her.

 

Good luck and let us know how things are progressing. I do think you have a chance to make this right for the two of you.

[littlejaz]

Mr Lucky is right, if you are quitting the band on Dec 31, I would try to have a job starting Jan 1st or 2nd, even if it is making french fries at McDonalds. You don't have to stay in that job but take any job you can find while you look for something better.

 

Most women today don't want a man to take care of them, they want a partner to share the good, the bad and the ugly with. They don't mind their man crying on their shoulders once in a while but they want a shoulder to cry on when they it too.

[Yarrow]

How about this:

Frankly, she has enough friends; she needs a man. She wants to see confidence and she wants to know that I can take care of my own sh*t.

 

So far, so good. Sounds like she's been the one doing everything in this partnership and you haven't been pulling your own weight. Stop acting like a child that she has to take care of. It makes her feel like she's your mother, not your wife, which causes all sorts of problems, not to mention it's just not sexy.

 

She's extremely strong-willed and motivated and she needs a man to overpower that. So that's my plan.

 

This is where your plan goes off the rails. She's strong-willed and motivated? She is a rare pearl! You're not going to overpower anything in her because frankly, she's better qualified than you. She probably knows it. More responsible, more dependable, stronger, and she appears to have the patience of a saint. Let's just say that with those qualities, if she was a man, she would be a better man than you. What she needs is a man who's got her back. Not to overpower her, but to walk beside her, not a whiny kid dragging her down like so much dead weight.

 

She's probably about half-way gone by now, and I don't blame her. There's only one way to get her back, and it's a bit of a long shot. Tell her you are making the changes you should have made years ago: get your head right, get a job, take care of your own health, and for God's sake start paying your own bills. Then immediately set to doing it. Telling her won't be enough. State your intent, then prove it. In the end, if it turns out to be too late, then at least you'll be the healthy guy with a job paying his own bills instead of just another whiny, fat, unemployed loser.

[jc63]

I've been applying for every job I can. Right now, I don't care where I work, I just want to work and take care of myself in my own apartment. This separation has made me realize that I have been a completely incompetent husband. She is a saint because she's fought for our relationship and marriage for so long while I resisted and continued to bring her down.

 

I do have two questions:

 

1. In two weeks, we have our first counseling appointment together. How to I approach these issues in a way that she will understand and hopefully begin to let her guard down? I plan to agree with all the issues she has about me because they are all true. She DOES need a man to have her back and stand beside her, not to just reverse the roles and take over all responsibility (even though she deserves the break).

 

2. Is her going to Florida for 3 months real that big of a deal? I've read on these forums of couples being separated for sometimes over 6 months. When she's in Florida and if things are going completely well, how do I stay in contact with her without making her feel like I'm pressuring her?

 

Come to think of it, she never screwed up. To be honest, if she's cheated on me, I can't say that I blame her. She tried for months and just got fed up. This separation has made me realize that I never want to be the guy I was only a month ago. I know it's going to take a lot of time, but I need to have confidence that when she comes back from Florida, we'll be able to get things back on track.

[Mr. Lucky]

1. In two weeks, we have our first counseling appointment together. How to I approach these issues in a way that she will understand and hopefully begin to let her guard down? I plan to agree with all the issues she has about me because they are all true. She DOES need a man to have her back and stand beside her, not to just reverse the roles and take over all responsibility (even though she deserves the break).

I don't think there's anything you can do or say in two weeks that will undo problems created over the years you've been together. Had you an issue with alcohol since day one of your marriage, would she be impressed with two weeks of sobriety?

 

Your focus should be on you - getting your act together physically, financially and emotionally. That's what you can control and will be a contributor to your life going forward, whether single or married. Stop worrying about how she will react to what you might do and start doing, you need a track record there.

 

Her leaving for 3 months might be a blessing in disguise. You've got time to show her a different looking and acting man when she returns. Whether she'll be interested or not at that point, up to her...

 

Mr. Lucky

[layziejoe775]

do your best in behaving in the counsel appointment. Listen to her thoughts and feelings. It is not going to be easy as it will be harder before it gets better. Look at it as an opportunity for you to hear it from a professional and interpret it to your own language. The best thing you can do is listen and have mental notes to know what the issues are. Maybe there are more issues in finding than just the obvious, it could be something you never heard before in your relationship that can be an awakening.

[jc63]

I fact of the matter is, I want my wife back and although she may be doing things and acting in a way that is discouraging, I still have the gut feeling that we DO belong together and this separation is going to be the best thing that ever happened to us.

 

I will admit that her actions are confusing. When she first left, we talked every day and we told each other we loved and missed each other. Last week, she went out with a friend and got hammered drunk and spent the night calling me, telling me she missed and loved me and she was sorry for leaving. The next day, she came over to our house and apologized and that the felt like she's "dragging me along". I firmly believe that people tell the truth when they're drunk, but I think the felt like she was going back on her decision to leave and wasn't ready to feel that way. (She has a way of covering up her true feelings once she's made up her mind about something.)

 

Since that day, she's had minimal contact with me and we've only seen each other once. I does give me some faith because I know that I was on her mind. But then, she hid her Facebook marital status (didn't change it, just hid it). When I asked why she did that, she said that she couldn't handle looking at it, which hurt but I guess I understand.

 

I know she's confused and it's making me extremely confused. I just don't know what these actions really mean. Am I just being a tool for thinking that much into Facebook?

[trippi1432]

The confusion is that you are analyzing the "crumbs".

 

Her not wanting to "lead you on" is because she has doubts, about you, about herself and the marriage, about what she wants for herself now....you had your time thinking about you, the least you could do is support her decision to follow this nursing opportunity for three months. SHE is not MAKING you confused, YOU ARE doing this to yourself by trying to read into every little thing.

 

These things are always confusing.....if you want to do something completely unselfish, be happy for her opportunity and don't add to her stress. Stay in contact by ASKING her if it's okay to check in with her to see how she is and don't overdo it. Give her room to breath and just be honestly happy for her. I say this because doing this honestly is something you are going to have to dig deep in yourself and let go of selfishness to do.

 

I'm not going to thump you on the head for your music, I am in the music business indirectly, but I will tell you that I have seen a lot of men in the industry who were devoted husbands and fathers. I'm not talking about ones who makes millions on a tour, I'm talking about local musicians in my town. They hold down daytime jobs and play music many times a week because it is their passion. And the ones who are married and raising kids WITH their wives and support their wives own passions, have more clout in my book than those who play to pay their bar tab.

 

I'm in a band, music has been my passion since I was four years old....it went on the side-burner for over 20 years basically as I was raising kids and living life. And I can attest that all of that is much harder than being a low-paying musician living out of a suitcase. And, as a woman, I did all of that (putting family first) with very next to nothing in support (emotional support) from either of my ExH's, but family came before music and I don't regret nor hold that against any of them. The music business is HARD!!!!! You lost your passion? Who doesn't in that industry? There are many musicians who are happy just being ASCAP and BMI certified to be a background musician recording in a studio and not going on tour, and then there are those that just want to tour, for the excitement...etc. "Being a music man ain't all it's cracked up to be"...there is some "romance" to that, but honestly, life happens around you and that is where you typically lose yourself to depression. You have to be both in YOUR life and in YOUR passion and that takes a balance that you just haven't learned yet.

 

I have a VERY talented friend of mine that should have a record deal, he works a full time job by day, plays music five nights a week, supports (not financially...he nurtures and supports) his wife as a photographer and they raise their children in a loving home. His wife loves him and supports him because she feels loved and supported. They have a genuine concern for each other and believe in protecting and caring about each other.....

 

........and then there is the 180, where you agree with everything she says, lose weight, quit the band because you don't want to or know how to have a healthy balance, you just want back what you lost and think that is going to get you there. Nah, my ex-BF is the bass player in my band, he tried the whole agree with me thing when he wanted to skirt the real issues and waddled between blaming my kids and blaming himself. If you are guilty, okay, agree. It makes the one moving on feel better about their decision, if you need to do some changing and see their point of view, then agree and make positive changes for YOU...not to get them back, but to be a better YOU....with or without anyone else....when you respect yourself, others will respect you too.

Edited November 24, 2013 by trippi1432

[jc63]

I decided to leave the band a couple months before she left. The band was getting busier and busier and I was spending less and less time at home. I was actually gone over half the month of October, which she left on the 27th. I can now see myself finishing school and having a good job in the medical field, which is also what she does.

 

A big question is: Is the months of her hurting and missing me and eventually growing numb clouding over the years of good memories? When I think about it, there are way worse men out there than me. I spent 200 days a year in bar after bar with women and booze and drugs. I NEVER ONCE cheated on her or ever thought about it. At home, I never hit her, never even thought about it. There are couples who go through **** like that and come out better with the help of counseling.

 

The day she left me, I was on my way home planning out what I was going to say to her. I was going to tell her that I wanted to renew our vows in January because although we've only been married two years, this was going to be a new chapter in our lives and I was ready to be the husband I hadn't been since our wedding day. However, I never got that chance because when I walked into the house, she sat me down, told me it was over, and left.

 

I will support her on the nursing travels and I will not give up on our marriage. I don't care what's she's done during this time apart because she has every right to. If she's taken her ring off, fine, but I'm not taking off mine. I'll give her all the space she needs and I'll try to be patient and stay positive until our counseling appointment together.

 

The man she left does not deserve her. The man typing this does...

[Mr. Lucky]

When I think about it, there are way worse men out there than me. I spent 200 days a year in bar after bar with women and booze and drugs. I NEVER ONCE cheated on her or ever thought about it. At home, I never hit her, never even thought about it. There are couples who go through **** like that and come out better with the help of counseling.

Doesn't work that way my friend. An inability to prove you were a bad husband doesn't prove you were a good one. Most women set the bar higher than "don't cheat on or hit me".

 

There are times you come across as feeling as though you're entitled to love without accepting the burden of earning or nurturing it. You lack some marital humility...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soccerrprp]

This is the best reply I've ever seen, thank you!

 

You're right, I am a man for owning up to my BS and I need to be a man and act confident and realized that she did screw up too. I just hope that me doing that just pushes her further away. We'll see.

 

Oldshirt, thanks for the honesty!

 

I read oldshirt's response (which I had some probs with) to which you were particularly pleased with and thought about your response and remained confused....

 

How did she screw up too??? It sounded like it was ALL you. It's great you have improved yourself and own up to your failings, but don't create a fantasy world to shift blame where it doesn't exist.

[jc63]

The more I think about it, the less I am able to blame her for anything. She tried, she tried for so long. I do wish she had said something earlier but I don't know if I seriously would have listened.

 

Over a week ago, she came over to the house and we talked for a couple of hours and things seemed to be going okay, like I was doing some good and making progress. She stays at the house with the dogs over the weekends when I'm gone. I told her everything that I was doing, everything I was planning to do, and as long as we both wanted to save our marriage, this separation would be a blessing in disguise. Before I left, I kissed her. It surprised her, but she did kiss me back.

 

Since then, she's been contacting me less and less. I don't know if she's trying to prove something or what. But I'm starting to feel like kissing her was a bad idea.

 

I don't blame her. I was just trying to use Oldshirt's comment for some confidence that I could actually win her back. I just don't know if it's going to happen.