Sex too soon..?

[reflex]

I'm basing my statements on what I have read and seen IRL. That is not being dishonest. Do you actually have other evidence to the contrary, that most men wait to have sex because they hold themselves to a higher standard as well as the women they date?

 

People get their moral compass/behavior usually from a combination of their parents/upbringing, and their own religious faith. Sometimes, it is from other influences in their life, other people they've come into contact with, but the two primary contributors to a person's moral compass is their parents and their faith.

I'll try to explain myself. I don't have any real answer. Perhaps you have a point. You seem very passionate about it and I see that your first statement is based on personal experience. I'm very sorry you got to that conclusion from your social circle or your environment in general. Let's only hope is not immutable, that's how one stops living.

 

The main reason why it is very hard for me to believe that the majority of men around you are like that is that it is against all my experience and understanding (the world wouldn't work XD). Besides, this very topic arrised a few days ago at a family reunion. There were friends and acquaintances too. In the end, the consensus was that we all shared a similar skewed view of men (i.e manipulative jerks), while few could bring facts to the table. I don't think that living in Europe makes any difference either.

 

So I don't have evidence to support my reaction to your views. Only things like these and my own experience. Or better said, the interpretation I give to the situations I have been exposed to. Which I guess is my actual point. No one sees things as they are. Many times not even close, and when I read your statements I found them too broad to be true (or close enough). It came across as men being bad and women their victims. I honestly hope it is a result of my poor judgement.

 

Regarding to morality, there is so much more to it I think it would make for another thread. I disagree on many levels, but I am affraid I lack the energy and possibly the writing skills to explain it properly.

[love1336x]

Agree with everyone else. I had sex.with my current bf about an hour into our third date. He didnt go anywhere.

 

 

2nd that! Slept with my boyfriend after a week of knowing eachother.

[odin673]

The double standard comes from different gender roles. The man wants sex and the woman wants a relationship(as the OP in this case does).

 

If a woman invites me to her place and does most of the escalation, it would be a massive red flag. It tells me that she lets her hormones guide her actions. I wouldn't base if someone is "relationship material" based on this fact alone but it would definitely be a factor.

 

You don't have that much to gain by having sex early on. If a guy likes you, he won't run because you didn't put out.

 

Double standards suck but they're part of life. Here is another one for you. If a guy says no to sex there's something "wrong" with him or he is gay. If a woman says no to sex, she's "relationship material".

[KathyM]

No, but you and other repeatedly said "most" rather than "many" last time and while that may be symantics I think it's an important distinction to make.

I actually stated "some men (many men)" originally, and later changed it to most men. So you agree that it's many, and take issue that it's most. Fine, since neither you nor I have done a study to test the percentage of men who have a double standard about sex, we'll take the more conservative view that many have a double standard, but not necessarily the majority.

There are lots of things that many people in both genders do that would be good to change. Repeatedly saying that this is the norm however tends to limit the expectation that things can be different.

I'm talking about reality, not wishful thinking. I post my opinion/conclusion based on what I've read, witnessed and experienced IRL. If you think I should only post based on how I would like things to be, rather than what is evident to me, then I guess you'll be disappointed. While I do sometimes post about how I wish things were different, I mainly post about what I've read, witnessed or experienced IRL.

I have guy friends who say, "most women fall in love as soon as they have sex with a guy" (just as an example) yet I know a lot of women who are very in control of their sexuality and are more detached about it than I am. There may be studies that show women get more attached but I don't like to make that big a generalization.

So you don't like generalizations, even if there are studies that provide reliable evidence to come to those generalizations. To each his own, I guess. I'll use the studies and material I've read, and the things I've witnessed or experienced IRL to come to conclusions, and you can be as conservative as you wish in your opinions/conclusions.

 

 

I agree with most of what you said (especially how society seems to want people to be increasingly sexual).

 

I'm not sure though if maybe we have different views of what that higher standard is. I don't think being less sex oriented is neccesarily a higher standard. I've learned that people's sexuality is their own business and has nothing to do with one's value as a person. I don't think someone who never has sex is a dork and I don't think someone who's slept with 100 people is whore.

I'll define what I consider a higher standard. Men who don't believe in using women for sex, and don't mislead them about their intentions have a higher standard of behavior than men who do those things. Men who treat women as people rather than as sex objects have a higher standard of behavior than men who view women as objects to be used. Men who do not have a double standard when it comes to sex, and hold themselves to the same standard as they expect from women they have a relationship with, have a higher standard of behavior for themselves. Perhaps your views are different. I do consider that men who act with integrity do hold themselves to a higher standard.

The higher standard is not being a hypocrite and treating people the same way you would have them treat you.

True.

Frankly, I don't see anything about men that would lead me to believe it's so hard for us to not be hypocrites.

It's not hard to live with integrity. Unfortunately, many men do not.

Are we sexually focused? Perhaps in some ways mainly because we have a lot more testosterone in our system which increases sexual appetite (in men and women). But, beyond the societal pressure which has told people for years that a man who has sex is a hunk but a woman who has sex is a slut, there's nothing biological to make men be hypocrites.

Agreed. Men can choose to live with integrity. Unfortunately, many do not.

Calling some men "gems" for not doing this I think misses the issue.

I think you are misconstruing what I'm saying. I'm calling some men gems who don't use women for sex or mislead them into thinking that they want a relationship when they really don't. I'm calling some men gems who don't hold women to a higher standard of behavior than they hold for themselves. I'm calling some men gems who are selective with who they offer their body to, and don't consider sex to be meaningless. I consider those types of men gems. If you don't wish to agree with that, I won't lose any sleep over it.

I'm about to use an extreme analogy but keep in mind that i'm not calling you a biggot and am just trying to illustrate a point:

 

If you live in the South (as I have), you see a lot of racism. In particularly, you see a lot of white people who hold disparaging views on blacks but don't think they're racist. You'll meet those who say, "most black people are lazy" or "most black people are cheap." Often these people are very quick to point out the one or two "gems" they know who don't fit the stereotype. They'll say that they wish more blacks could be hard working like they're friend. What's interesting is that these people don't realize that they're still racist and that their black friend would likely not want to talk to them had they heard their comments.

 

I know a lot of guys who have a double standard when it comes to sex but I know a lot of guys who don't. When I hear the former saying bad things about women who sleep around I call them on it or a discontinue their company. I don't want to pardon them by calling them "most men" and I don't want to have to prove that I'm not one of them just because I have a penis.

So we're on the most men/many men thing again. Fine, we'll say many men if you feel more comfortable with that. I base my comments on what I've read and studied, and from what I've witnessed and experienced IRL, but as I said, I have not conducted a study which surveyed men on their double standards, so I really don't feel the need to so strongly defend the most men/many men contention. Have a nice day. I'm sure we've bored the heck out of other posters here who have bothered to read this debate.

[Andy_K]

Men who do not have a double standard when it comes to sex, and hold themselves to the same standard as they expect from women they have a relationship with, have a higher standard of behavior for themselves.

 

I have no double standard and hold myself to exactly the same standards I'd expect from a woman that I'd have a relationship with.

 

It just so happens that those standards involve viewing sex on a first or second date as perfectly normal and acceptable behaviour I would (and have) still get into a relationship with them. In fact, I'd even go as far as to consider it a plus point, because a) it shows they're on the same wavelength as me regarding early sex, and b) it shows they're seriously attracted to me!

[Mascara]

I have no double standard and hold myself to exactly the same standards I'd expect from a woman that I'd have a relationship with.

 

It just so happens that those standards involve viewing sex on a first or second date as perfectly normal and acceptable behaviour I would (and have) still get into a relationship with them. In fact, I'd even go as far as to consider it a plus point, because a) it shows they're on the same wavelength as me regarding early sex, and b) it shows they're seriously attracted to me!

 

Perfectly put. You like sex early, but you're not a hypocrite about it.

 

Personally, I prefer to wait a little longer than 2 dates, and prefer guys who want the same. It's all about not holding someone to a standard you don't hold yourself.

[JonesyDash123]

It's hypocritical of him for sure. It's mainly because society looks at men having flings in a different way compared to women and it is unfair.

[freetolove]

"dump" him and move quickly. you guys aren't even in a relationships sadly