Sex too soon..?

[MalachiX]

well i see your advice is terrible and judgmental and you clearly have a hard time understanding my reply,

looking at your reply i think its also have to do with self esteem and morals

 

Nope, I understood you just fine which is why I think what you tell people is destructive. You think that people should go by your morals rather than their own and you think that people should go by your understanding of God rather than their own. Both of these things I find repellent.

 

you slept with that girl, but where is she now? and why did you keep her? wasnt it also because the sex was great and you keep going for more?

 

You know what's really sad about your view of relationships and your view on sex? Your view makes the entire relationship about sex rather than having sex be just one part of it. I kept her because I loved her. I'm not with her now because on some core level we weren't compatible in the long run. I was more creatively oriented (I work in films) and she was more down to Earth (she worked in Math). We also came from very different backgrounds. We thought we could get passed this and we couldn't. I don't regret the relationship and I don't regret that it ended. I just don't like people who have no idea what they're talking about deciding that the only thing that mattered was when we had sex.

 

why did you not marry her if the sex wasnt that soon for you and she was that special to sleep with?

 

I actually kinda feel bad for you in believing this tripe. Sex is part of a relationship but not all of it. If I were to refuse to sleep with anyone except the person I married one of two things might happen:

 

a.) I might end up convincing myself I'm more serious than I really am because I subconsiously want to have sex so much that i'm not thinking straight. To many people with your views end up rushing into getting married in their teens or early 20s just so they can have sex and still appease their religious views.

 

b.) I might marry someone who I'm not sexually compatible with and be frustrated for the rest of my life.

 

Neither of these options sounds very healthy.

 

its sad to see people trying to talk down their conscience.

 

Lady, as far as sex is concerned my conscious is clear. I'm not perfect and I do make mistakes. I regret times when i should have been kinder and more sensitive to the people I've dated. I regret every time I've hurt someone I cared about. But I sure as hell don't regret not conforming to your views on relationships or God.

 

if you are a men you would know that what im saying is true.

and commune sense like the guy in OP topic said.

 

It's kind of interesting how people like yourself seem to think you can get a rise out of guys by insulting their manhood. It's also kinda interesting how you can't learn to spell...

 

 

i think d-bags are guys that trys to play it the other way around to motivate woman to sleep as soon as possible with them.

and you only speak for what benefits you.

there is noting special in sleeping with someone soon.

especially for woman there is noting to win!

only to loose.

 

Hate to burst your bubble but women like sex too. An awful lot of women like sex before marriage. In fact, statistically the majority of women like sex before marriage. I have a feeling that they don't appreciate your view any more than I do.

 

beside you are a men. so i dont take your opinion about sleeping soon as a good thing, serious!

 

That's OK. You can't speak English so the feeling is more than mutal

 

because i see it as a opinion of someone not looking at woman with great value.

 

I think I value women a lot more than you do. I think that, present company excluded, they're smart and strong beings who are capable of owning their sexuality and making their own choices. I think some get hurt and manipulated by jerks but most learn from that pretty quickly and are able to come out the other side even stronger without having to fall into the trap that you have.

[antonio1149]

I slept with my GF on our 2nd date. I remember she was worried that I would think she's "easy", so she made sure I knew she felt enormous chemistry with me, and that this was really unusual for her. I believed her, and still do.

 

What if you hadn't believed her? What if you had found out, after sleeping with her on that second date, that she really loved casual sex and had hooked up with two to three guys per week for the past year? Do you think your reaction would've been different?

[RedRobin]

Unfortunately, most men have this selfish hypocritical sexist attitude about sex where he gets a free pass on being bad boyfriend material but you are judged. Its one thing us women have to learn to accept among the many double standards that negatively affect us. Brush it off though.

 

*I* don't accept it.

 

A lot of men who hold these beliefs do so to avert attention away from their own behavior.

 

OP, in the future, I'd turn your attention away from whatever messages guys like this try to send you... because, trust me, there are some that would say what this guy said even if you've waited months. It's really just a guy who just likes to try and hurt women, really. If it wasn't this, it would be something else he'd try to knock you down with.

 

This is just one of the 'easier' ones.

 

In the future, try to find out what his history is first. I personally don't date men with a history of casual sex or FWB... weeds out a lot of the a-holes like the one you are talking about in this thread.

[Bindi33]

Antonio,

 

While I very much appreciate and respect your perspective, I have to disagree. Your point about evolutionary roots is very accurate, it doesn't mean it should not be fought against. Like with many other evolutionary traits, modern technology has rendered it obsolete. Specifically I mean condoms, birth control, paternity tests, etc. Furthermore, I find it ludicrous that a woman who has sex with a person she likes and connects with deems her "slutty." Let's not even get into the fact that a guy can have sex just to have sex and he's not "slutty" while a woman may actually like a guy on more than a physical level but that makes her "slutty." I think this argument goes well beyond evolution. This double standard is so ingrained in our culture, a culture with a long history of sexism. And if anyone who reads this will recall, racism was very much ingrained into our culture for hundreds and hundreds of years. Did that make it right? Imagine if no one fought for racial equality and simply accepted it as a part of our culture. Racism was just as much ingrained in our culture as sexism. It was passed down from generation to generation, and there were many arguments to back it. But many people saw the flawed logic behind it and fought against it. Though racism is far from being eradicated, great progress has been made.

 

My point is, just because an ideal has evolutionary roots, or is an ideal that has been passed down through generations, doesn't make it right. And it doesn't mean it should be accepted. We should all be held to the same standard, sex or race should make no difference.

[Mascara]

OP, I can see that you're new here, but you'll come to understand that there are some posters that just aren't worth engaging with

[KathyM]

Some men are only looking for quick and easy sex, and are not really interested in a relationship. By holding off on sex, you weed this type of man out. He's not likely to hang around for long if he's not getting any. Good riddance to him.

 

Some men (many men) are hypocrites, who think it's fine if they themselves sleep with whomever, but want the woman they have a relationship with to be more selective in who she sleeps with, and not so quick to have sex with a stranger.

 

And then there are the rare gems among men who also value getting to know a person on other levels before bringing sex into the equation, and have the same high standards for themselves as well as for the woman they date.

 

So by holding off on sex, you weed out the men who are only looking for sex, and by asking about sexual history and getting to know the guy first before having sex, you also can weed out the hypocrites (assuming you want to weed out the hypocrites). Most men are hypocrites when it comes to sex. By holding off on sex, you also have the opportunity to then find the rare gem of a man who is actually looking for a real relationship and is not a hypocrite. Some men who are into early sex may say they are also interested in a relationship, and might not discriminate against you for also being open to early sex, but you really won't know which type you are dealing with that early on, so better to wait and weed out the men who are only in it for sex and not interested in a relationship.

[KathyM]

I actually know several men who are these rare gems who are not hypocrites, and hold themselves to a higher standard as well as the women they date. Most are men of religious faith, however, and their higher standards are based on their faith. I do know one man, however, who is an atheist but also values relationships and is not interested in using women for sex, and waits to get to know a woman on other levels. He holds himself to a higher standard of who he will sleep with, and he expects his dating partner to do the same. There are men like that out there, but you have to weed through the users and the hypocrites in order to find them.

[reflex]

Wow, looks like the "he's a total jerk" opinion is pretty unanimous here. I'll offer a counterpoint.

 

Yes, it is from one perspective a double standard and kind of jerky. But the reality is, Mr. Jerky has a point. Most guys, when considering their potential life partner, don't want a woman who's slutty. Like most things in the human behavior world, there are deep evolutionary roots for this. There is a lot more at stake when a woman is slutty than when a man is. If you're a woman and your man cheats and gets another woman pregnant, it may suck on an emotional level, but you will probably not be raising that child and if your husband has substantial resources, you may not even notice an economic impact on your family. On the other hand, if you're a man and your wife cheats and gets pregnant, most likely you'll be raising and supporting another man's child for 18+ years. Even worse, you may never even know it's not your child. This is commonly known as "cuckolding":

 

Cuckold - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

My advice to Bindi33 and other women and is if you want to really ensure that you're going to be seen as potential girlfriend or even life partner material, hold off on the sex for a while (weeks, or even a couple of months.) It may work out okay, as some of the stories here demonstrate, but you're taking a big risk.

Man, the problem here is the double standard thing. He can do it but she doesn't? that's total b*******!

 

The cuckold reasoning made sense in the past. Nowadays it isn't so prevalent anymore. Besides, with DNA tests no man has to raise someone else's child if doesn't want to (E.g from a previous marriage).

 

The paternity myth: the rarity of cuckoldry - Gene Expression | DiscoverMagazine.com

[reflex]

I actually know several men who are these rare gems who are not hypocrites, and hold themselves to a higher standard as well as the women they date. Most are men of religious faith, however, and their higher standards are based on their faith. I do know one man, however, who is an atheist but also values relationships and is not interested in using women for sex, and waits to get to know a woman on other levels. He holds himself to a higher standard of who he will sleep with, and he expects his dating partner to do the same. There are men like that out there, but you have to weed through the users and the hypocrites in order to find them.

We are not rare. Women who say that are as dishonest (play the victim) as guys bashing them for being evil or whatever.

 

Also, religion has NOTHING to do with decency. In fact, simply following others mandate (God didn't wrote the Bible), actually undermines his behaviour as something genuine.

[randuff]

Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

[Zahara]

I think he just wanted an FWB arrangement with you. He then didn't want to look like the bad guy for not wanting anymore with you so he just decided the easy way out was to call you easy and that you weren't worthy of a relationship with him. He didn't have the balls to just admit he was in it for sex when you got emotional with him.

 

Coward and a jerk.

[Gottabestrong]

Hi bindi,

just wanted to chime in with my opinion.

 

I know of a few men who think that a woman is 'easy' or not very selective, if she has sex with a man on a first or second date. That somehow disqualifies them as potential girlfriends in their minds and they only see them as casual hookup partners from than on. It is less because they had sex with them on the first date, but because they think these women do that with everybody else too and that is not someone 'they want to bring home to mother'.

 

Now, obviously I think that is totally unfair and a total double standard. Those guys seem to forget that they had sex on the first date TOO! I know it would never hold up in court as evidence for someone being 'slutty' (in a hypothetical situation where this were a case) but unfortunately that does not change how these guys feel. I guess it is similar to other beliefs some men hold about women which might be totally outdated or unjust.

 

My advice to you is to be aware of this and the next time you get intimate with someone very early in the relationship be aware of the potential 'consequences' and decide if you still want to go through with it or not. At least you won't be totally unprepared if after sex he suddenly starts to see you differently.

 

Good luck!

[colombiana28]

We are not rare. Women who say that are as dishonest (play the victim) as guys bashing them for being evil or whatever.

 

Also, religion has NOTHING to do with decency. In fact, simply following others mandate (God didn't wrote the Bible), actually undermines his behaviour as something genuine.

 

agreed. some of the biggest scumbags i know are christians, and most of the the handful of atheist men i've met have integrity, are respectful of women, and don't seem to hold as many double standards, so they themselves tend to not use women.

[KathyM]

We are not rare. Women who say that are as dishonest (play the victim) as guys bashing them for being evil or whatever.

I'm basing my statements on what I have read and seen IRL. That is not being dishonest. Do you actually have other evidence to the contrary, that most men wait to have sex because they hold themselves to a higher standard as well as the women they date?

Also, religion has NOTHING to do with decency. In fact, simply following others mandate (God didn't wrote the Bible), actually undermines his behaviour as something genuine.

People get their moral compass/behavior usually from a combination of their parents/upbringing, and their own religious faith. Sometimes, it is from other influences in their life, other people they've come into contact with, but the two primary contributors to a person's moral compass is their parents and their faith.

[KathyM]

agreed. some of the biggest scumbags i know are christians, and most of the the handful of atheist men i've met have integrity, are respectful of women, and don't seem to hold as many double standards, so they themselves tend to not use women.

There are hypocrites in all walks of life, and among all faiths, including atheists.

[RedRobin]

Some men are only looking for quick and easy sex, and are not really interested in a relationship. By holding off on sex, you weed this type of man out. He's not likely to hang around for long if he's not getting any. Good riddance to him.

 

Some men (many men) are hypocrites, who think it's fine if they themselves sleep with whomever, but want the woman they have a relationship with to be more selective in who she sleeps with, and not so quick to have sex with a stranger.

 

And then there are the rare gems among men who also value getting to know a person on other levels before bringing sex into the equation, and have the same high standards for themselves as well as for the woman they date.

 

So by holding off on sex, you weed out the men who are only looking for sex, and by asking about sexual history and getting to know the guy first before having sex, you also can weed out the hypocrites (assuming you want to weed out the hypocrites). Most men are hypocrites when it comes to sex. By holding off on sex, you also have the opportunity to then find the rare gem of a man who is actually looking for a real relationship and is not a hypocrite. Some men who are into early sex may say they are also interested in a relationship, and might not discriminate against you for also being open to early sex, but you really won't know which type you are dealing with that early on, so better to wait and weed out the men who are only in it for sex and not interested in a relationship.

 

ditto on this... I've learned that the best men hold off on sex for their own reasons if he is looking for a relationship... There is no pushing for sex to see what he can get away with or so-called 'slut testing'.

 

If he's not looking for a relationship or doesn't care, then he acts accordingly and most of the time, is pretty hard pressed to give a damn about what the woman SAYS she wants. Most guys just aren't going to self-select. ie, reject sex just because she says she's looking for a relationship while he is 'meh' on it. They'll just go along for the ride and expect the woman to put a stop to the free-for-all at some point.

 

With the latter group, it might take even longer to sort out... I've learned 2-3 months at least to sort out if he really is looking for a relationship and particularly one with ME... not just 'in general'. That's my first decision point in figuring out if I want to become physically intimate with a man I'm seeing.

 

So, it's caveat emptor folks. It's not even about morals. It's about being precise in what you are looking for and willing to tolerate.

[MalachiX]

 

People get their moral compass/behavior usually from a combination of their parents/upbringing, and their own religious faith. Sometimes, it is from other influences in their life, other people they've come into contact with, but the two primary contributors to a person's moral compass is their parents and their faith.

 

You're forgetting society. It's one thing to get annoyed at the guys who are jerks. It's another to ascribe that view to most guys. When you say that "most men are hypocrites" then it re-enforces a societal expectation of this. Men who might want to fight against this kind of impulse hear that enough and they see no reason to raise themselves to a higher standard because they're being told that the bad way is the norm.

 

Faith doesn't really impact my choices on dating and sex. I try to treat others as I'd like to be treated. I don't just do that in regaurds to gender but I do it with everything. I'm not perfect and I'm sure I'm a hypocrite in some ways but I do my best to be fair and try to be a better person. I don't think that's so rare. Or, even if it is, I don't want to send the message to the world that treating other people right is something extraordinary as I think it should be expected of everyone.

[antonio1149]

Consider the following: Mary is sitting alone in a bar when she is approached by John. He offers to buy her a drink. Mary immediately determines that John isn't her type, and she doesn't truly trust any man she meets in a bar. But she's a little lonely, John seems pleasant enough, and besides it makes you feel good to have a man buy drinks for you. They have a pleasant conversation, filled with interesting anecdotes and humor. John purchases several drinks for Mary. Towards the end, John invites Mary to dinner sometime. Mary politely turns him down.

 

Do you think John should feel upset because Mary turned him down after he bought her drinks and spent his time conversing? Do you think this makes Mary a jerk and a user?

[RedRobin]

Consider the following: Mary is sitting alone in a bar when she is approached by John. He offers to buy her a drink. Mary immediately determines that John isn't her type, and she doesn't truly trust any man she meets in a bar. But she's a little lonely, John seems pleasant enough, and besides it makes you feel good to have a man buy drinks for you. They have a pleasant conversation, filled with interesting anecdotes and humor. John purchases several drinks for Mary. Towards the end, John invites Mary to dinner sometime. Mary politely turns him down.

 

Do you think John should feel upset because Mary turned him down after he bought her drinks and spent his time conversing? Do you think this makes Mary a jerk and a user?

 

There is another thread devoted to who pays for what and all of the implications of such...

[KathyM]

You're forgetting society. It's one thing to get annoyed at the guys who are jerks. It's another to ascribe that view to most guys. When you say that "most men are hypocrites" then it re-enforces a societal expectation of this. Men who might want to fight against this kind of impulse hear that enough and they see no reason to raise themselves to a higher standard because they're being told that the bad way is the norm.

 

Faith doesn't really impact my choices on dating and sex. I try to treat others as I'd like to be treated. I don't just do that in regaurds to gender but I do it with everything. I'm not perfect and I'm sure I'm a hypocrite in some ways but I do my best to be fair and try to be a better person. I don't think that's so rare. Or, even if it is, I don't want to send the message to the world that treating other people right is something extraordinary as I think it should be expected of everyone.

I'm glad you aspire to higher standards. Am I wrong for saying that many men don't? That many men do have a double standard? I wish I was wrong about this. I wish more men did hold themselves to a higher standard. Some do, and those men are like gems in a sea of pebbles. Men who hold themselves to a higher standard already know they are going against the norm. The message being drummed into today's oversexualized society is that sex is cheap and easy, something you have to do, something that's expected of you with anyone who shows some interest in you. There's a lot of pressure on men nowdays to have sex early and with as many women as possible. They get these messages on a daily basis in the media, in music, among their peers. There's a lot of peer pressure to conform to society's norm, which, unfortunately, has become oversexualized.

[d0nnivain]

Do you think John should feel upset because Mary turned him down after he bought her drinks and spent his time conversing? Do you think this makes Mary a jerk and a user?

 

 

This shouldn't effect John's self esteem but in all candor Mary should have reciprocated & bought John some drinks or at least only accepted 1-2 from him. You are a user if you sit & drink on somebody else's tab knowing they like you or are interested in you but you know that it won't go farther than you accepting their generosity.

[JourneyLady]

Man, the problem here is the double standard thing. He can do it but she doesn't? that's total b*******!

 

The cuckold reasoning made sense in the past. Nowadays it isn't so prevalent anymore. Besides, with DNA tests no man has to raise someone else's child if doesn't want to (E.g from a previous marriage).

 

The paternity myth: the rarity of cuckoldry - Gene Expression | DiscoverMagazine.com

 

Many men are raising some other man's child anyway, in the form of stepchildren. The fact that they are raising the child of someone they love is enough...

[MalachiX]

I'm glad you aspire to higher standards. Am I wrong for saying that many men don't? That many men do have a double standard?

 

No, but you and other repeatedly said "most" rather than "many" last time and while that may be symantics I think it's an important distinction to make. There are lots of things that many people in both genders do that would be good to change. Repeatedly saying that this is the norm however tends to limit the expectation that things can be different. I have guy friends who say, "most women fall in love as soon as they have sex with a guy" (just as an example) yet I know a lot of women who are very in control of their sexuality and are more detached about it than I am. There may be studies that show women get more attached but I don't like to make that big a generalization.

 

I wish I was wrong about this. I wish more men did hold themselves to a higher standard. Some do, and those men are like gems in a sea of pebbles. Men who hold themselves to a higher standard already know they are going against the norm. The message being drummed into today's oversexualized society is that sex is cheap and easy, something you have to do, something that's expected of you with anyone who shows some interest in you. There's a lot of pressure on men nowdays to have sex early and with as many women as possible. They get these messages on a daily basis in the media, in music, among their peers. There's a lot of peer pressure to conform to society's norm, which, unfortunately, has become oversexualized.

 

I agree with most of what you said (especially how society seems to want people to be increasingly sexual).

 

I'm not sure though if maybe we have different views of what that higher standard is. I don't think being less sex oriented is neccesarily a higher standard. I've learned that people's sexuality is their own business and has nothing to do with one's value as a person. I don't think someone who never has sex is a dork and I don't think someone who's slept with 100 people is whore.

 

The higher standard is not being a hypocrite and treating people the same way you would have them treat you. Frankly, I don't see anything about men that would lead me to believe it's so hard for us to not be hypocrites. Are we sexually focused? Perhaps in some ways mainly because we have a lot more testosterone in our system which increases sexual appetite (in men and women). But, beyond the societal pressure which has told people for years that a man who has sex is a hunk but a woman who has sex is a slut, there's nothing biological to make men be hypocrites.

 

Calling some men "gems" for not doing this I think misses the issue. I'm about to use an extreme analogy but keep in mind that i'm not calling you a biggot and am just trying to illustrate a point:

 

If you live in the South (as I have), you see a lot of racism. In particularly, you see a lot of white people who hold disparaging views on blacks but don't think they're racist. You'll meet those who say, "most black people are lazy" or "most black people are cheap." Often these people are very quick to point out the one or two "gems" they know who don't fit the stereotype. They'll say that they wish more blacks could be hard working like they're friend. What's interesting is that these people don't realize that they're still racist and that their black friend would likely not want to talk to them had they heard their comments.

 

I know a lot of guys who have a double standard when it comes to sex but I know a lot of guys who don't. When I hear the former saying bad things about women who sleep around I call them on it or a discontinue their company. I don't want to pardon them by calling them "most men" and I don't want to have to prove that I'm not one of them just because I have a penis.

Edited November 23, 2013 by MalachiX

[reflex]

Many men are raising some other man's child anyway, in the form of stepchildren. The fact that they are raising the child of someone they love is enough...

I know and that's exactly what I meant to say.

[Iguanna]

For me it's not about what a man wants and needs that makes me act carefully, I hate fake and I wouldn't do anything to pretend I'm this way if I'm another. The fact is I CAN'T sleep with a man on a first, second, third .... tenth date because I need my time to get to know him, trust him, feel comfortable with him. I hate ONS, I really get disgusted only with the idea of having sex with a man I just met and I can't understand what a woman or a man earn from this, but this is a different subject. I am aware that men see women who sleep early with them as easy. I'm a woman but I can't do anything else than agree. I also have a bad opinion (a no - no) for a man who sleeps early with a woman, I don't discriminate by gender. But this comes from the fact that I would never do this myself and I can't understand people who do it. For me these are people who don't want to invest on feelings and emotions but only on physical pleasure. I reject this type of people in my mind, either for bf or a friend. I may sound harsh, but that's who I am. It's not that I judge or hate them, but they are not friend or bf material for me.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Iguanna