Please help me sort out thoughts....

[sandra parker]

I have a real complicated break-up. My ex and I were together for five years. We broke up a few times over the same issue: lack of commitment (marriage) on his part. As the relationship progressed and nothing happened I became resentful about his indecision and that led to arguments and often break-ups. We always got back together and loved each other deeply. We had a lot of passion between us and got along fairly well expect he didn't want to commit with marriage. We saw each other everyday and he stayed at my house nightly. He became real close to my children especially my sixteen year old son. In August we got into a argument over a dumb incident that was based on the usual issue (commitment) and he walked away. In the beginning of the break-up we fought a lot. We argued over the fact that he wanted to stay involved in my son's life. I tried to tell him how this would hurt me ( to keep seeing him) to no avail. Four weeks after the break, he began seeing someone else. He works with her and she is 25 (he's 45), She has a two year old child. Even though we were broken up, this still hurt me immensely. He never dated the other times we were broken up. Things are progressing between him and her. He took her and her child to the family's Thanksgiving Dinner and X-Mas. I was/am very close to his family and this hurts me a lot. After much arguing with him over my son, I decided to allow them to see one another since my son wishes the same. He goes to all his sports events, takes my son out for lunch, rides etc. At X-Mas he came by and exchanged gifts with my son. He bought me gifts as well. I left the house because I knew that he had been with her the night before and was going to her after the visit. I just couldn't stomach it. He came by today and picked up my son and took him to get me a kitten. Mine ran off right before X-Mas. They did this as a surprise to me. He is with her again tonight!! He claims this young girl knows that he has contact with my son and doesn't mind. He tells me how much he cares and loves me and is sorry that it didn't work between us. He is very good to my son who doesn't have another man in his life. I want to be an adult here and I am trying really hard not to harbor anger in this situation and would like to move on since it's over between us. But seeing him and the things he does makes it so hard to move on. I have tried being a big B---h to him about everything, it didn't work. I feel like he has the best of both worlds. Makes me mad. Every time I see him he calls me by the nicknames he had for me, kisses my hand good-by and then I am all F'd up for the day. Please give me your inputs on this. I am so involved in this situation I can't think straight and have no clue what he is doing and why he is doing it. Thanks, Sandra

[renee2005]

Hi, You have to be strong. Why would you want someone who you know is dating someone else and then to add insult to injury brings the new girl around his family already. Sometimes we think we are deeply in love but its really only stability and habit. You 2 probably do love or loved each other but if you get back together, would he commit? Thats one of your issues so it would be the same old story. If you had someone else that was fabulous you wouldn't even think about the ex. If he is close to your son , let him be around him. But your son is old enough to know that the ex doesn't want you enough to commit and he may have issues with any type of commitment as well. Try to move on and when he comes around, be nonchalant. Never let him see you sweat. And don't try and figure out what he is doing because you never will know unless HE tells you and even then it may not be true. Do what's best for you!

[sandra parker]

thanks for the reply renee,

 

I am so lost in this that it didn't even dawn on me to ask myself "why would I want someone like this around?!" I get so caught up in my feelings that I don't see the obvious. I know it would be so much easier on me if he was just totally out of the picture. It is so hard, if not impossible to let go when he is always around and the communication is always there. For a short time (11 days) I didn'y speak to him and I was doing great, I even posted some pretty darn healthy posts here. Then we started communicating again and wham! I'm back to square one again with my feelings.The no-contact method is the only way to get over someone. I am going to have to figure out a way to do this somehow and still let him see my son. I wish I could just move away and start new somewhere, but that's not feasable at this point. He is such a loser!! I think he's playing both of us and I think that he has it made. He can go with her and stop in and be part of "us" again whenever he wants. I wish that he would just go away! There has been times when I have wondered if she really knows about this little arrangement of his, he claims she does and is fine with it. I know it's irrelevant but I wonder. There has been times when I felt like letting her know, but thank God I didn't. I have got to get away from him somehow. It is nearly impossible to be non chalant when he's around, I don't know how. I hate leaving my own home for his convinience but that is the only way right now. I need a new life and I am not sure how to get one, sad heh?!

[renee2005]

Well, its not fair that he has 2 people caring about him and you are trying to get over him.....Take a piece of paper and fold it in 1/2 .. One side put the pros and cons. I am sure you will see something that has affected you in the cons that ou have never thought about. You want a commitment and after 5 years he couldn't give that to you so what did he do? He moved on. and then came back to test the waters and as long as you aren't "hassling him about marriage" He's cool .. Oh but wait he'll keep the chick on the side in case you do ever trip out.

 

Well, we all get caught up in feelings. Don't feel bad about that. I went thru a traumatic experience w/ someone a few months ago and yes maybe it helps w/ them not being around but ask yourself when you are down, "Is he down? Is he thinking about me? I'm not saying that he doesn't care but sometimes we play the game as well. He may be a great guy but you and your children come first... Let him see your son but when he comes over go read a book , get on the computer, go to the gym.. Whatever you can do!!! Don't settle for less. You gave him 5 years and he didn't give you what you wanted.

 

I don't even know you but I bet you are worthy more than you think you are. You deserve a King and there is no excuse to "share" a man. Because you still don't win. If you share and not know thats different but he's telling you and your accepting it. Love yourself , get to know yourself better.. this too shall pass..trust me

 

Bottom line is he isn't going to change his mind until HE is GOOD & READY !!! Do your thing and if he is ready to act right then let him back in(if thats your choice) but on your terms... You still have to live w/ or w/o him.right ??? . Let me ask you this say he got back w/ you tonight. What would change? Would he marry you ? So see you still aren't getting what you want except maybe another argument. You know people , they usually want us when we don't want them. Wait until you meet someone great , you will say I wasted my time. Well if the woman knows about you then both of you shouldve been invited for the holidays.. and if she doesn't know, and you tell, she would hurt like you and you may still not have him.

We as women have to learn we can't strike out at each other if the male is controlling all this .... Don't you dare leave your house!!! It will take time but really boost your self-esteem. look in the mirror and say you are beautiful and know that you are a woman a queen and deserve to be treated as such. There is NEVER one way; you will always have options!!! Keep your head up... You will get through this!!!!! I am not judging you , I have been there; love is funny and true love (in my opinion ) doesn't hurt~

just take care of #1 first and things will work out !!!

[tgrace]

Isn't it amazing how this always seems to keep us in a state of turmoil. Hang in there Sandra, you'll get through it. But, you're right, it's hard to watch the other woman do what you used to do. I just found out tonight that the other woman who my ex moved onto 2 weeks after breaking up with me is over at his mom's house right now for a week. In knowing what that house looks like, there would be no other option than for the both of them to be sleeping in the same bed. And, to think, I was worried about his traveling through trecherous roads yesterday to visit his parents. I broke the NC rule and emailed him that I was worried about his safety. He replied that he had no problems traveling......oh and her and her son went on the trip too. So, now I'm sitting here thinking about all my visits to their house over the summer, etc. It's damn hard. So, I replied to the email that since he is obviously well chaperoned, I won't worry about his future travels. I don't even have a desire to check my email now to see if he replies to that.

 

God, this has to get better......

[indigo_moon]

Your son is not a little boy, he's 16 yrs old. While it's nice for him to have a male role model in his life, it does NOT have to be this boob. Surely your son must know how you've been hurt. I see NO reason why this guy has to continue to have contact with your son - not at this time, anyway (maybe somewhere down the road when you've healed). You are NEVER going to move on with your life if you have to continue to have contact with him, with him being able to waltz into your home to see your son, acting like nothing has changed. Get tough, get strong. And his sh*t with calling you by the pet names he used to, and kissing your hand..........he's a sickening dog. Who the hell does he think he is? .. but you can't blame him, you're ALLOWING IT.

 

If a guy at that age doesn't know after 2 yrs whether he's ready to settle down and marry you, get out.

 

It seems you had a somewhat ?unhealthy relationship to some extent...seeing other other daily and sleeping together each night (though not living together) seems like you were both very dependent on him.........and it likely sent a message to your son that marriage doesn't matter, that pretty much shacking up is okay.

 

Anyway, what's done is done. Break off all contact. Sit down with your son and explain to him (though he should be old enough to already "get it") that you've been hurt and things have to change...............at least for the time being........that this guy can no longer be in your lives............he had his chance, he didn't want it, he can p*ss up a rope now versus having the best of both worlds.

 

Then tell buddy there what the drill will be...and for God's sake, stick to it. No calls, no him coming over, no emails, no nothing. To do otherwise sends him a message that you're a doormat who didn't mind having 5 yrs of your life wasted and that you're desperate and will put up with this versus moving on with your life.

 

If you want your son to have a father figure in his life, look into "Big Brothers"........this guy is not a role model..........what kind of message do you think he's sent to your son? That your "good enough" to sleep with every night for 5 yrs, but not good enough to marry.........that he got himself a younger model and can carry on like nothing happened, having a good ol' time with a chick young enough to be his daughter. Sick!

[sandra parker]

Hello everyone, first of all, thank you all for sharing your thoughts on my dilemma.

Indigo_moon:

 

You are absolutely right about many things. The reason why I allowed the sleeping over stuff is because I got caught up in it and because I loved him I kept hoping it would change. You know, when you are motivated by love and hope sometimes you get stupid. This is why though I insisted on commitment. I knew that it wasn't right. I am in my forties and he is the second man I have slept with. The first one w/out marriage. My morals bothered me all along. But what's done is done. Also, I am kind f dissapointed in my son because I feel his loyalty should be with me. He loves Andy and wants to continue a relationship with him. I fought with him on this for four months. In the end, Andy won out and I am trying to live with it ( and having a real tough time that's why I wrote). I went through a very short period of nc and was so healthy/happy. Now, how do I go back on my decision about him seeing Carlos ??I have already explained to both of them (until I am blue in the face) how this affects me). only to cave in and agree to the arrangement. How do I tell my son I have changed my mind? I know I have to though. It's the only way I will get over this. Any ideas? Thanks again for your input. One of these days maybe I can help someone for a change. Sandra

[indigo_moon]

You sound like a nice, caring, loving person so don't feel badly or guilty for things you've done in the past...you did what your heart felt was right for you at the time.

 

As for your son, it is unfortunate that he's not "getting" what you're going through. I know you don't want to anger or alienate him, but you just have to sit down with him ..tell him how much you love him, remind him that you're not trying to make his life difficult...but that Carlos has caused you a lot of pain....and in order for you to move on with your life as he (Carlos) has, you cannot have ANY contact with him...and unfortunately that's going to impact your son's contact with him.....at least for the time being. Lay down the law....that Carlos will not be stopping by your home, he will not be calling your home and that is that and you hope your son can find it in his heart to understand...assure him you're not trying to "punish" him for what Carlos has done but this is the way it has to be. End of story.

 

You then must communicate to Carlos (however you see fit..whether by email, snail mail, phone, in person etc) that things cannot continue this way..........that he can't have his cake and eat it too........he can't carry on with your son the way things were prior to him leaving.....that although he's been a part of your son's life, he's not his Father and he shouldn't expect to continue with the contact as if nothing had happened....that it's unhealthy and sends a wrong message to your son, that it's okay for men to shirk their responsibility to their partner, leave their partner and just find someone new and carry on as if nothing happened. Tell him in no uncertain terms that you do not want him to have any contact with you or your son at this time...you are the Mother and this is your right to dictate. You don't want your son getting the message that it's acceptable to hurt a woman and then just go out and find someone else........you want your son to have a role model who exemplifies commitment and responsibility and doing things the right way. End of story.

 

Write a letter if it's easier. Send it by Registered Mail so you're sure he's received it, this way you won't have to talk to him. Change your phone # if you have to. Go for counselling to help you heal with this and be strong............you will get through this but you have to set the boundaries here, for your own sake...........and that is not being selfish at all. Your son might not like it but you are the Mom here and in order to be a good Mom you have to have your emotional health ....and this thing w/ Carlos is preventing you from moving on...and that's not good. Be strong and put yourself first right now........and don't feel guilty. And come here to post ANY TIME you feel weak or sad or confused or aren't sure what to do..there's always someone here to listen or offer you support;/feedback. Okay? ((((hugs))))

[_Saffy_]

your son is 16 and has said that he wants to see this guy, and the guy wants to see him, well thats fine. i think it would be unfair to stop that, and im sure that your son would resent it too.

 

but, that doesnt mean that you have to see him, the guy can pick him up outside, he doesnt need to come in, where hes in a position to call you pet names and kiss ya hand.

 

if you feel that this is a GOOD role model for your son to have, and im not sure a commitmentphobe is a good role model at all, then work around it.

 

 

you can have no contact if you want, you dont have to see him, the only remaining bond here is between your son and your ex.

[sandra parker]

Hey Guys, thanks again for the inputs. I thought that I could deal with him coming around. I kust can't. I am going to have to figure out what to do here. I have two choices and at this point, neither one is easy on me. We tried this before only for it to come to this point again. I asked Andy to allow some time to pass and then maybe we could work something out with my boy. He didn't like it one bit and daid some pretty real mean things to me about me being a 'bitter bitch' etc. Well, them a week or so later, he wrote my son a letter and included a cashiers check for $500.00. My son met with him and after Andy asked to talk to me, more yelling an the like. Well, this is when Carlos decided he wanted to keep seeing Andy. I personally wanted him to give the money back and thought this is what he was going to tell him. NOT. They agreed to remain friends and see one another. This meant that Andy will attend all his b-ball games as well. I made the horrendous mistake of giving this another try. Well, now you all know what the end result is and for my own sanity, I need to let go of this arrangement in order to move on. Even seeing him in my drive way f's with my head. I get sad, then mad, then sad. It's an emotional rollercoaster that I want to get off from. I have been seeing a therapist for a couple of months now and she sends me mixed messages, in one hand she agrees with the nc and then she feels that Andy and my son should hold on to their relationship. Maybe I need to talk to him face to face about this and try once again to let him know how hard this is on me. Maybe he will find it in his heart to let go of Carlos so that I can move on. I just want to strangle him!

[sandra parker]

Well, just thought I would update you on my situation. After reading the posts, I did some more thinking and decided to talk to Andy and try to explain to him (once again) how harmful this is to me. I called him and asked him if it was at all possible to meet up later on for a few minutes. He immediately asked me what this was about. I hate talking on the phone about important things and told him that it really wasn't about us, but about this whole situation and how uncomfortable I am with it and I thought we could put our heads together and come up with a solution. He then starts screaming t me on how there are plenty of uncomfortable situations he has to deal with too and I am not the only one blah, blah, blah. I told him that this isn't just about making him happy and he cut me off and started in on how I always have to make him feel certain things, and don't I know he feels them already, at X-Mas we exchanged gifts, not personally, I chose not to be home when he came. I found out through my son that he had bought me something so I made a collage/picture frame out of some pictures of the three of us together on vacations and the like. He gave me some Victoria Secret perfumes and lotions. He then proceeds to tell me that I was trying to manipulate him with the gifts and not taking into consideration that it was his idea to buy me stuff first. I did the picture thing because I didn't feel like spending money on him and the pictures were of all of us. Well, whatever. I then told him I was at the show's parking lot (I was meeting a friend for a movie) and just told him to forget about everything ( the talk) and hung up on him. When I was at the show he left me a voice mail apologizing about his attitude (he was having a bad day blah, blah) and for me to call him when I got out of the movie.

This is just what I needed. The man is an a**h*** and a selfish one at that. I don't want to see him, talk to him ever again. He manages to f-up everything. We will never even be able to be friends because he is so self centered. Tomorrow he will be at my son's game and when he comes up to me, I am going to pull him aside and tell him to leave me the f alone and let him know that he will never hurt me again.

Sometimes I have to be blown away by something before I can see it for what it is. He is no more deserving of my friendship/love now then he was during the whole time we were together. Time to take the blinders off and put him and his **** where it belongs: in the past under lessons learned.

[tgrace]

You go girl!! We all support you 100% And, you know where to find me if you need to chat.

 

Tracy

[sandra parker]

Hi everyone,

 

I emailed you Tracy.

 

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. He called me twice after I hung up on him and I ignored the calls. I need to step away from this insanity. There was a couple of weeks that I had no nc with him and I was doing great.

 

There is a gap between the head and heart and I need to work on that connection and make healthy decisions about my future. I get screwed big time when I follow my heart. I feel like and ass having opened up to him and making it possible for him to rent space in my life again.

 

Wish me luck for I am moving on! I will get through this by being a "B" (according to him) if that's what it takes. He is so beneath me. Not because I am so great, but because he is a poor excuse for a human being. Warped is the word I am looking for. I pray to stay angry because I should be. As the song says: "I will survive!" Thanks a bunch guys, Sandra

[debs]

It breaks my heart that the man would buy your impressionable son like he did!!

 

No you do not have to allow him to see your son. If you do I would allow it away from the sight of you! Let the ex b/f pick him off and go off, this won't last for long!!!!!

 

At 16 your son will soon have a busy social life and will not be available to see him! You need to try to have a more forceful conversation with your son. He is old enough to understand your ex b/f has a new love in his life and things didn't work out between the two of you! Yes let your son know you are hurt and need space and no contact.

 

So my thoughts are for you to keep strong and yes by all means...NO CONTACT!!!!! Keep the faith, we are behind you 100%

[Devildog]

Well, here is the problem as I see it. 16 year olds know everything there is to know and way more than anyone else does. Just ask a 16 year old, they will tell you. They are all grown up and fully functioning adults who don't need advice or guidance from any "adult" or parent.

 

I wish I had some advice on how to get through to a rebellious 16 year old boy, but if I had that answer I would be richer than Dr. Phil and Oprah combined.

 

I think your best bet is to move on with your life and hopefully find a real man who can show you, and your son, what real love, commitment and dedication means.

 

If I may ask, what happened to your husband, the father of your son?

[sandra parker]

Hi guys!

 

I was married for fourteen years to Carlos's dad. Carlos is not my only child. I have a 25,20 and 16 year old. Boys. We got divorced because his head was way up there with drugs and he would not stop them. I got divorced when my oldest was 11 and have been raising the boys alone. I only had a high school diploma when I divorced and I cleaned houses and went to school. I have three college degrees. An associates in marketing, A BA in English and my teaching certification from the University of Michigan. I was by myself for a while because I felt I needed time to heal/ get my head on straight and focus on my children and I. I met Andy through Carlos. He coached him in football during his late elementary and middle school years. At first I thought he was a conceited ass. He had been dating a girl for 7 years and they broke up because he did not want to commit. RED LIGHT! Well, after watching him with the other kids and with Carlos, my heart softened. Carlos developed a crush on him and so did I. We dated slowly at first and I felt head over heels shortly there after. He is soo gorgeous and very charming. We struggled the whole time we were together because of this commitment issue. We broke up several times but always got back together. During the last year of our relationship things on the outside got tougher: I lost my job (lay-off), he built and then sold a home and when the house got sold along with the commitment thing, he wanted out. This time we have been apart (if you can call it that) for almost five months now. He began to date this new girl a few weeks after we broke up. He never dated before when we broke up.

My son has minimal contact with his own father because he remarried and the new wife does not care for my children which may explain my patience with his and Andy's relationship.

Update!

He just called me again and left me this message:

(in a upbeat voice)

Sandra Parker

This is Andy -------,

 

If you call me back

It will set you free.

 

I am not feeling too good.

I was sick all last night.

 

I may not be going to Carlos's game.

I have a call. ( he sells awnings)

That way you don't have to look at my sorry ass.

But I am going to try to go because I don't want that to happen.

 

HUH?!

 

I didn't answer the phone or return the call. Now if he shows up I am going to stick with my decision and tell him in a calm voice to leave me the f alone.

 

He is unbelievable! I wanted to include his voice mail message just so you can see what I deal with from his end. How he feeds my little hope flame ( in my heart). BUT, I must connect the dots between my heart and head right?

[renee2005]

Hi ,

Well I see a lot has happened in a day. Andy does not have a reason to be talking to you in that manner. And you state you want to stay angry? Why would you do that ? You are just using up positive energy. Put that energy to your son and other 3 kids. Show your children that you are strong.. Another thing Girlfriend, why would you want to be with someone who called you a bitter bitch? As soon as he said that , I would of said well your ass liked it for 5 years so it must've been sweet !!!!! Please don't pull him aside at the game and tell him to leave you the f alone.. You are there for your son .. Try to ignore him as much as you can .. He doesn't need your words.. All that shows is you are thinking of him .. It irritates people when you don't say anything. He's playing you , "if you call me back , it will set you free". what kind of mess is that. He wants you to keep that flame.. Everytime u want to call remember he said you were a BB and he didn't want to commit.. Wait and see what happens if he gets attached to the OW little boy. Then he may not be around and you will have to mend his heart as well.. What do your older kids say ? Can they talk to their little brother and maybe let him know how mom feels? Stay strong and don't be angry . Learn a lesson from it.. We have all been there in some way or another. Don't feel bad about venting. Thats what the board is for. When its your time , you will advise but now its time for you to be empowered