Any WW refuse to tell who their OM was? Why?

[dreamingoftigers]

LOL! Your confession made me giggle!

 

I didn't realize how funny this was (given the context) until you pointed it out. LOL

[experiencethedevine]

Sometimes I want to meet Dr. Phil, look at him with an eyebrow raised, and ask, "How's that workin for ya?!"

 

I'm not a big fan.

 

Are there actually fans of his???

[dreamingoftigers]

I don't really feel it is wrong to shame someone for their bad behavior. Especially when it comes to serious things like cheating or child abuse. If you didn't want to be shamed for such things you should of never of done them..and you definitely shouldn't of come onto a tv show and discussed it.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of counselors, etc. out there who are just as talented as Dr. Phil, with the only exception being in order to get help from them you don't need to air you dirty laundry to a bunch of strangers.

 

ARG. Crap. I kinda hijacked this thread.

But anyhow I don't necessarily have an issue with him shaming child abusers and cheaters. If its constructive.

 

But he kinda shames a whole spectrum of people. Including thàt betrayed wife I mentioned in my hijack post. He really shamed her about not getting past the affair already even though she said that she couldn't without knowing who it was.

 

As for shaming cheaters/child abusers etc. I honestly believe that a high percentage of them are the way they are because theyve had an overdose of sgame in childhood already. Shamed to the point where it's been made out that they should articulate their feeling, but instead bottle them. Abd then they do dumb crap like cheat and abuse.

 

YES it's their responsibility to deal with their crap. Absolutely, but an extra dose of shame probably won't actually HELP the situation.

 

I do notice that he'll shame, shame SHAME and then offer to help. Whatever.

I guess that I'd rather there be a Doctor Phil that helps some of the people some of the time. (Like getting addicts to rehab) than just another talk-show douchebag like Jerry Springer whose "thought of the day" seems to be a loop of "just because you came on my show and threw punches doesnt mean you should cheat on each other." Whatever. The only time I see any actual TV is when I'm at my mother's anyway.

 

Ugh. I don't want to talk about reality bride shows etc. ugh. So much crap.

[dreamingoftigers]

It was my understanding that it was 35%

 

Many a BW and a BH have said they would kill their WS if they ever cheated on them.

 

 

More have said they would divorce their WS if they cheated on them.

 

 

Only to stay married after D day to their WS.

 

 

So what a spouse may say before they become a BS does not come true most of the time.

 

 

It is very rare to see in the news were a BH murdered his WW.

 

 

Seventy eight percent of all marriages survive an affair.

[Confusion_Reigns]

Then divorce him now, because you can not control the stds from your AP.

 

Get out of the marriage before cheating. Because if you give your H stds from your AP, you will get caught.

 

You assume I've slept with my friend. I haven't and have no intention of doing so unless I am really single and he is so inclined.

[ChooseTruth]

My ex tried to deny me that info at first, citing fear that I'd do something crazy. That didn't last long though. He might have been the father of her unborn child...I think she told me who it was that same night. She miscarried a week later btw.

 

Oh and I was always polite to OM, even when face to face with him. I eventually exposed the A to his BW, but yeah...

[dreamingoftigers]

My ex tried to deny me that info at first, citing fear that I'd do something crazy. That didn't last long though. He might have been the father of her unborn child...I think she told me who it was that same night. She miscarried a week later btw.

 

Oh and I was always polite to OM, even when face to face with him. I eventually exposed the A to his BW, but yeah...

 

I heard the same garbage. I often hear about how "I'd just fly off the handle." And yet, the only time I have is when I outright caught him. Otherwise I've just cried.

 

Yet somehow he expected me to "just gèt over it."

So, which is it? I'm crazy or I'm not as calm about as you thought I would be?

 

I really resent being made out to be a psycho that goes around whacking people with baseball bats or whatever.

 

If my husband was that scared for himself or OW, then why is he with her pytting her in danger and why is he still with me? ARG.

 

His mother is a psycho and I really, really resent the comparison.

[summerdowling87]

Maybe he's a family member of the BH or a close friend of the BH or she's still banging the WW.

[road]

Seventy eight percent of all marriages survive an affair

 

Where does this statistic come from? It certainly isn't that way in the little berg I live in. I would say it closely mirrors the divorce rate. My counselor said in her experience it was 50 percent survived.

 

 

 

Dr Harley.

 

 

Not all people go to a MC. So your MC statement is based on just some of the population not all. And we do not know what percentage of the population that your MC does see.

 

 

What we do know is your MC is only successful with half of the clients that she does see.

[road]

Are there actually fans of his???

 

 

 

Babe Ruth did not hit a home run every time. Still a fan even though he struck out.

 

 

Same with Dr Phil. Though I will not drink any one's kool aid.

 

 

You can be doing a good job. Though when you make a mistake it is still a mistake.

[dichotomy]

Could you imagine how awful that would be for her? Everywhere she went she would be wondering: "I wonder if its her. No, maybe her or her."

 

ARG. That's just damned awful and cruel.

 

 

Yes - related.. to this.

 

There are some many pieces of disrespect in affairs - but one that really burned my butt - was that my soon to be wife, took me out in her home town and we hung out and had beers with a number of her "friends" one of which was MM/OM. I was in the dark. She claims she was showing me off - but ***** that I was in some perverse game without my knowledge - a perverse reality show I was not aware I was even on.

 

You need to disclose if there is any chance of running into AP - AND if anyone else related knows of this - example friends or family who were in on it. No hanging out with (you or your BS)- or running into people who know things about AP you don't know what they know or how they were involved. Disclosure and NC may also extend to these folks as well.

 

You BS must be made to feel safe and aware in their lives and yours.

Edited November 21, 2013 by dichotomy

[janedoe67]

Though I will not drink any one's kool aid.

 

Thanks for the laugh road.

 

Stats on saved marriages come from people who follow particular programs. And any couple that is willing to follow a program to the letter, especially particularly....legalistic ones, are already in a recovery mindset. So these statistics, scientifically and authentically speaking, are inflated.

 

However, I would bet the number of couples who REALLY recover rather than just exist while exhibiting the proper outward behavior when the WS withholds vital information (like the AP's identity) is pretty darn low.

[beatcuff]

...Dr. Phil was on her case saying she'd "already firgiven him"...

 

i love how people read what they want. assuming the quote is true he did have a point --- if you forgave him then you have to drop OR stop the charade of 'forgiveness'.

 

back to the OP --- removing violence: i am guess it is someone VERY close (your sister) or embarrassing (his cousin).

 

you do not NEED the name. but that is a huge huddle to overcome.

[Spectre]

I really call bull on the "78% of marriages survive affairs" thing. That number sounds way too high. Not only would I want to know which person claimed this, but I'd also want to know the exact methods they used to come to this conclusion. I'd also think the reasons they stayed in the marriage also matter. If two people simply stay together for the kids, well that's not really them being able to have a loving marriage, etc. after this betrayal.

 

If that number is true then that really makes me feel bad, because it just means there is a large number of people out there staying with people who have zero respect for them..a MUCH larger number then I ever would of thought.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Spectre

[dreamingoftigers]

i love how people read what they want. assuming the quote is true he did have a point --- if you forgave him then you have to drop OR stop the charade of 'forgiveness'.

 

back to the OP --- removing violence: i am guess it is someone VERY close (your sister) or embarrassing (his cousin).

 

you do not NEED the name. but that is a huge huddle to overcome.

 

Read what I want? LOL

 

Anyhow, just because a betrayed spouse forgave him for the ACT does not by any means dictate that she has to live with these ridiculous trauma triggers for the rest of her life because he doesn't want to own up to who the OW was. That's pure unmitigated selfishness.

 

In fact, she doesn't even have to stay in the marriage to forgive him. She could very well forgive him and move right on. But to suggest that someone's reconciliation attempts are phony because they can't easily function in the marriage while missing an OBVIOUS piece of IMPORTANT information is very fallacious.

[Spectre]

I also agree that forgiving is not the same as forgetting. If you cheated on someone and they decide to forgive you..you have to fully expect this still will cause some issues. You have to expect they still might question you and you definitely have to expect it will get thrown back in your face during arguments. Those things might suck to deal with, but it's your own fault for cheating. If these very normal reactions to your betrayal are things you can't deal with then you need to just end the relationship.

 

Hell let us say you cheat on a guy with another man named Steve Jackson. This guy does try to work it out and forgive you. Then maybe a year or two down the line you might both be watching a movie and suddenly a character named "Steve Jackson" pops up. This is obviously going to trigger some horrible memories, and it might even cause the person to get mad at their spouse or at the very least to simply not want to be around them for a while. You might think it is wrong for this person to be getting upset a year later, but things like that are still part of the overall consequences you have to deal with for what you did.

 

Again this is why it is horrible to cheat. It will never ever go away, you can never truly make it right to this person. For the rest of their lives they will have to deal with what you did. They will have to deal with triggers in life that bring up these horrible memories, etc. Even if you break up, this betrayal will almost certainly have an effect on their future relationships as well..all because you couldn't merely dump someone before going to someone else.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Spectre

[dreamingoftigers]

I just had a major trigger last night and cried a lot.

 

I'm away from my husband now so no he didn't suffer any consequences from it.

 

I also agree that forgiving is not the same as forgetting. If you cheated on someone and they decide to forgive you..you have to fully expect this still will cause some issues. You have to expect they still might question you and you definitely have to expect it will get thrown back in your face during arguments. Those things might suck to deal with, but it's your own fault for cheating. If these very normal reactions to your betrayal are things you can't deal with then you need to just end the relationship.

 

Hell let us say you cheat on a guy with another man named Steve Jackson. This guy does try to work it out and forgive you. Then maybe a year or two down the line you might both be watching a movie and suddenly a character named "Steve Jackson" pops up. This is obviously going to trigger some horrible memories, and it might even cause the person to get mad at their spouse or at the very least to simply not want to be around them for a while. You might think it is wrong for this person to be getting upset a year later, but things like that are still part of the overall consequences you have to deal with for what you did.

 

Again this is why it is horrible to cheat. It will never ever go away, you can never truly make it right to this person. For the rest of their lives they will have to deal with what you did. They will have to deal with triggers in life that bring up these horrible memories, etc. Even if you break up, this betrayal will almost certainly have an effect on their future relationships as well..all because you couldn't merely dump someone before going to someone else.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Dr Harley.

 

 

Not all people go to a MC. So your MC statement is based on just some of the population not all. And we do not know what percentage of the population that your MC does see.

 

 

What we do know is your MC is only successful with half of the clients that she does see.

 

I would say that this is the same for Dr. Harley - again - it is relative to the area and I don't trust statistics at all. I only know what I have seen.

 

Dr. Harley makes a lot of money doing what he does. I am not saying his methods don't work - I'm sure for many they do. But his methods are not for everyone.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Thanks for the laugh road.

 

Stats on saved marriages come from people who follow particular programs. And any couple that is willing to follow a program to the letter, especially particularly....legalistic ones, are already in a recovery mindset. So these statistics, scientifically and authentically speaking, are inflated.

 

However, I would bet the number of couples who REALLY recover rather than just exist while exhibiting the proper outward behavior when the WS withholds vital information (like the AP's identity) is pretty darn low.

 

I agree with this.

 

I also equate it to losing weight - there are many diets, formulas, etc. Bottom line is, if you follow it you will probably lose weight. The problem is, we are human beings and generally we fall off the wagon later and end up gaining the weight back.

 

My biggest problem with Harley's program is his insistence at not focusing on the reasons why a person had an affair. I had major childhood issues I needed to work on and I could not properly even try to focus on repairing a marriage until I began to look at WHY I was following this path. It was only with the help of IC that I was able to truly look at why and begin to try to correct my own behavior (that really had nothing to do with my husband).

[beatcuff]

...just because a betrayed spouse forgave him for the ACT does not by any means dictate that she has to live with these ridiculous trauma triggers for the rest of her life because he doesn't want to own up to who the OW was...

 

thank you for making my point --- there was no forgiveness.

 

... But to suggest that someone's reconciliation attempts are phony because they can't easily function in the marriage while missing an OBVIOUS piece of IMPORTANT information is very fallacious.

 

thank you for making my point (again) --- if you can not move forward for ANY REASON then how can you call it forgiveness?

 

you are splitting hairs - 'well the act i forgive but not the name or the location or the situation': seriously? the root cause is the act, everything else is collateral damage (which most WS don't think of).

[road]

Any BH's have a WW refuse to tell who the OM was?

[dreamingoftigers]

thank you for making my point --- there was no forgiveness.

 

 

 

thank you for making my point (again) --- if you can not move forward for ANY REASON then how can you call it forgiveness?

 

you are splitting hairs - 'well the act i forgive but not the name or the location or the situation': seriously? the root cause is the act, everything else is collateral damage (which most WS don't think of).

 

Read for comprehension.

 

A BS can forgive what happened but only if they KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

 

Do your closest relationships come up to you and say "I did something really horrible. I may have either not wiped my feet on the mat when I entered your home because I forgot OR I may have grabbed a knife from the drawer and slit the throats of your children and Fluffy your cat. Do you forgive me? What? I thought you were a forgiving person?"

 

Sleeping with one's mother, sister or best friend and getting them pregnant is a far huger emotional impact that groping a former co-worker while drunk at the Christmas Party as a "dare." Both are infidelity but the WHO and the WHAT decide what level of betrayal a spouse can handle and live with.

 

Cripes, the quote above sounds like its written by a wayward that wants to "split hairs."

 

98.5% of people would be able to forgive the "not wiping shoes on the mat" IF THEY KNEW THE DETAILS OF IT. A lower number would be able to if it was an intentional pattern to cause destruction to the home. DETAILS AND PARTICIPANTS MATTER.

 

They do with practically everything in life. Even mothers who have had children killed by an offender can forgive but generally not without knowing the truth of what went on and who. Again, was it an accident (like someone made a dangerous mistake to run a red light and smoked their kid in a crosswalk) or a vicious kidnapping where some psycho took their kid off the playground, raped and tortured them, dismembered the body and fed it to their dog?

 

No matter how willing a spouse is to be forgive, to suggest that in some way they are "withholding forgiveness" because details and identity are ACTUALLY being WITHHELD is RIDICULOUS.

 

And frankly, behooving.

And irritating too because I WANT and DO forgive my spouse but dammit I haven't received full disclosure yet. We are waiting for counseling.

I know that I can live with so much. But if it turns out that he slept with a particular (former) employee of ours that I suspect he did, that's past the line for me. Finito. I can forgive it, but I don't want to live with it or be married to him at the point. He would've made far too much of a fool of me to consider myself 'okay' with staying in the marriage.

 

It isn't (entirely) his fault this disclosure is taking so long and it's torturous. I want to go to a marital counselor I can trust and I have one in mind that we went to before. The wrong counselor can actually CAUSE damage and trauma so I want to do it right. And he has a waiting list (for good reason).

[Spectre]

I was never married, but I have been cheated on. They never refused to tell me who the other guy was though, that would of been a pretty damn arrogant thing for them to do considering what they have already done. It is especially hilarious if people do this, but still say they want to save the marriage. Since obviously refusing to tell is a sign they want to save it.

 

It's completely unacceptable unless you feel your spouse will legitimately go out and kill this person or something.

[janedoe67]

Forgiving and moving forward are two very different things.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

Are you going to start a thread asking if there are any BH's out there who refuse to tell the BS who the AP is?

 

I posted on the other one - my husband knew who my AP was and I knew who my husband's AP was.