Should I be offended? Beauty standards

[robertasmith]

I met a guy recently, we've become sort of friends I guess. He's always talking about his relationships and primarily about beautiful women, he loves these perfect-faced women and he complains as how they're not smart enough, etc., but can't stop noticing them. I have always agreed on how beautiful they are but I honestly have never thought of love in such way, I don't feel very pretty either even though I've dated some handsome men, but the people I've really fallen in love with have always been pretty standard, even not handsome at all.

 

I started feeling like I wanted him to like me and I realized where this came from and just dismissed it. But last week we were talking about these girls and I said, you know? I think you have ridiculously high standards in terms of beauty and you'll never find love thinking like that. And he answered, "well, if that was my only concern I wouldn't be here with you."

 

OKAY. I asked him if he was telling me I was ugly, he said no, "but you're just not one of them, I mean, you're not *somegirl*, and I don't get bothered when they don't see me as Brad Pitt." I kinda laughed with disgrace and he insisted on how he thought I was such a great girl and should not feel offended because he was not saying I was ugly and he had told my friends how he felt he could fall in love with me. Later he said that he thought that a combination of my brains and personality with *somegirl's* face would be just the perfect & ideal woman. I answered him politely and said he was being truly offensive, that he should NEVER EVER again say that to a girl in his whole life especially because I was not comparing myself to anyone so I didn't need some guy comparing me to other girls (which I could in all honesty find gorgeous myself) And I said: You know? If I were even close to liking you, you would've broken my heart. Good thing you didn't pal!

 

I acted as some casual friend but truth is I've been thinking about this more than I should and bdaaagghh. Last week the guy seemed just a superficial friend, and now -why, I don't get this- I feel almost grateful that he found me slightly attractive and a girl to fall in love with. What's wrong with me?!!! I'm afraid I'll treat this guy in a way he doesn't even deserve to be treated. As a "pal"? Is this better than showing him this was offensive to me? My question is, how would you think of someone who said this to you? Would you even bother in showing him this is not cool? would you stop being friends or something? Or what would you say to yourself? In a way I really feel he's just an idiot and I shouldn't pay attention, but man... I've felt like he told me something I've felt my whole life: that guys don't really find me that attractive, that guys like him would never date me but at least this one felt that I was great? Good grief.

 

Also I just broke up with my 4 year boyfriend, we were on long distance since january, so I guess that doesn't help.

[Phoe]

I have a friend who acts like this with me sometimes.

 

 

 

Tells me how I'm goofy looking, too tall, my face is weird, and that the idea of being attracted to me is horrifying to him.

 

 

Luckily we're close enough of friends that I don't mind it and can fire right back at him ^_^

 

 

However, this is a very certain kind of friendship I have with him, and that is a very fine balance in order for the two of us to be like this and not offend each other. It's like a brother and sister bickering.

 

 

In your situation, it's very clearly that he has massively overstepped a boundary. There's no reason for you to remotely feel okay with this, and it's good that you expressed to him that it's inappropriate.

[Grumpybutfun]

robertasmith:

You are a people pleaser and you want to please him by being good enough looking for him. Plus, he did a number on your ego. I think there was a book for men on this about throwing a woman an insult veiled in a smile and the woman would want to please you so would jump through hoops to try to be with you. The idea is that by them making you feel vulnerable and messing with your self-esteem you will think they are better catches than they actually are. A bit of Psych 101.

 

I think it is silly, and if you want to retain any of your dignity and have good self-esteem you will find other potential friends who actually treat you in a friendly manner. This guy is a douche playing head games with you. You are already vulnerable enough because of LTR ending so don't put yourself in a position where a predator can prey on you.

Expect better,

Grumps

[man_in_the_box]

People who put others down for their physical appearance are generally jackasses and not the best relationship material.

 

Then again, I also would advise not to get hung up about how attractive some guy exactly thinks you are. It's not a bad thing to grow a thicker skin for what some individual thinks about you. It's pretty irrelevant but it appears to have quite a bit of influence on you.

[robertasmith]

Thank you very much for this. You're absolutely right.

[MalachiX]

I want you to promise me right now that you're not going to date this guy.

 

Forget the fact that he sounds like a d-bag and a relationship would make you miserable. Forget the fact that he clearly doesn't care about your feelings.

 

Please just don't date him so I can have faith in the universe Please don't let him playing on your insecurities make you chase him. Please don't let the stereotype be true. Please...

[Ruby Slippers]

He's an ass. I wouldn't even want to be his friend after that. Leave him to his "perfect faced" women. Let's see how he does with that.

[Leigh 87]

I am no great beauty but the men who have fallen hard for me have genuinely thought I was stunning (TO THEM)

 

The right guy will find you like "those girls", in his eyes.

 

You don't need to worry about him.

 

He is a jerk for saying those things to you, as it is only socially acceptable for very good male/female friends to be totally honest, as in Phoes case.

[MalachiX]

Frankly, i don't think I'm that "honest" to my guy friends much less my female friends. Yes I'm willing to be blunt with people I'm very close with but only in a constructive way (i.e. you're being an ******* in this case and you're better than that.)

 

i don't think I'd ever bluntly make a comment about something one of my friends has no control over like their looks. That just seems mean and I don't like to hurt the people i care about.

[robertasmith]

Thank you guys, I agree with you all.

 

Leigh_87, I totally believe you! I've had my own couple of partners who thought I was stunning and it felt lovely, not thinking I was that but knowing you do deserve someone who feels you're more than enough for them.

 

MalachiX

I needed that, I promise I wont date this guy, I want to maintain my faith in the universe as well.

 

I feel this is a lot like negging, like Grumpybutfun said. Ughhh it sucks.

[Kate9292]

I started feeling like I wanted him to like me and I realized where this came from and just dismissed it. But last week we were talking about these girls and I said, you know? I think you have ridiculously high standards in terms of beauty and you'll never find love thinking like that. And he answered, "well, if that was my only concern I wouldn't be here with you."

 

Smooth.

I wonder how many PUA books this guy read. And did he really expect this would work on you?

[Addison312]

Wow. Yes, you are right to be offended. I wouldn't even be able to hang out with this guy again if I were you. Totally rude. What makes him think he is god's gift to women!?

[MalachiX]

MalachiX

I needed that, I promise I wont date this guy, I want to maintain my faith in the universe as well.

 

Yay!

 

Now I can go on believing that there's value to treating other people the way you'd like to be treated.

[pteromom]

You definitely don't want to date him. He's the kind of guy who will insist you look a specific way for him at all times and will make comments that hurt your feelings any time you aren't up to his standard.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I met a guy recently, we've become sort of friends I guess. He's always talking about his relationships and primarily about beautiful women, he loves these perfect-faced women and he complains as how they're not smart enough, etc., but can't stop noticing them. I have always agreed on how beautiful they are but I honestly have never thought of love in such way, I don't feel very pretty either even though I've dated some handsome men, but the people I've really fallen in love with have always been pretty standard, even not handsome at all.

 

I started feeling like I wanted him to like me and I realized where this came from and just dismissed it. But last week we were talking about these girls and I said, you know? I think you have ridiculously high standards in terms of beauty and you'll never find love thinking like that. And he answered, "well, if that was my only concern I wouldn't be here with you."

 

OKAY. I asked him if he was telling me I was ugly, he said no, "but you're just not one of them, I mean, you're not *somegirl*, and I don't get bothered when they don't see me as Brad Pitt." I kinda laughed with disgrace and he insisted on how he thought I was such a great girl and should not feel offended because he was not saying I was ugly and he had told my friends how he felt he could fall in love with me. Later he said that he thought that a combination of my brains and personality with *somegirl's* face would be just the perfect & ideal woman. I answered him politely and said he was being truly offensive, that he should NEVER EVER again say that to a girl in his whole life especially because I was not comparing myself to anyone so I didn't need some guy comparing me to other girls (which I could in all honesty find gorgeous myself) And I said: You know? If I were even close to liking you, you would've broken my heart. Good thing you didn't pal!

 

I acted as some casual friend but truth is I've been thinking about this more than I should and bdaaagghh. Last week the guy seemed just a superficial friend, and now -why, I don't get this- I feel almost grateful that he found me slightly attractive and a girl to fall in love with. What's wrong with me?!!! I'm afraid I'll treat this guy in a way he doesn't even deserve to be treated. As a "pal"? Is this better than showing him this was offensive to me? My question is, how would you think of someone who said this to you? Would you even bother in showing him this is not cool? would you stop being friends or something? Or what would you say to yourself? In a way I really feel he's just an idiot and I shouldn't pay attention, but man... I've felt like he told me something I've felt my whole life: that guys don't really find me that attractive, that guys like him would never date me but at least this one felt that I was great? Good grief.

 

Also I just broke up with my 4 year boyfriend, we were on long distance since january, so I guess that doesn't help.

 

 

 

I too was starting to like you, upon reading just your matter-of-factness when conversing with your so-called friend about beautiful faces.

 

Him always talking about beautiful women and his having high standards in terms of beauty... have nothing to do with him "finding love".

 

 

The reason what he said hurts... has little or nothing to do with your comparative beauty. It hurts because of the way society has trained females to (place so much meaning on their appearances). I think he was merely causing you to contemplate your appearance, and that added awareness (and NOT any particular flaws in you) is what felt so odd, from this "pal".

 

Were this guy-speak, two guys would be bantering back and forth about whether to deeply admire the top two percent or the top six percent of female faces, as being completely beautiful. Nothing about it would suggest that either/any guy involved imagined he could truly land (romantically) such a sought-after person.

 

 

I was initially so hopeful, about your story, when you were seemingly synchronized with him, on the subject of beauty.

 

 

Furthermore, and although I know this is your thread to steer as you wish, but the time to consider his having been offensive, was before you condemned him to a loveless future, based (so far) on no more than at which level he might draw the line above which are those who might be seen as supreme beauties.

 

For a time you were agreeing with his line... only to then turn around and decide that his placement OF that line would dictate a loveless future for him.

 

You set-up your "pal" to offend you as Ed McMahon would set-up Johnny Carson.

 

... AND you didn't even notice!

 

 

But still, kudos for at least having initially been much stronger than most in being willing to assess others fairly and objectively.

[StanMusial]

I find it strange that you write out such a long-winded post, and end it with a throw-away comment about recently breaking up with your bf of 4 years.

[robertasmith]

SincereOnlineGuy:

 

Well, first let me say I'm not a native english speaker, and I got a little confused by your elaborate phrasing. Were you just a little condescending? I was just starting to like you too, excuse me if I read this under the wrong light. I got from what you said that you lost your sympathy after you realized I pretty much offended myself? If I set him up to offend me, well, I don't know about that. I sure did not expect he had this very loving words coming for me when I led the conversation down that road.

 

What you said set me up was my association between beauty and love, and you're right, I don't know for a fact if him being as amazingly shallow as he is would interfere with him finding love, but I do sense there's a connection. This is why: This guy would probably just want to date a very nice girl with average beauty but he can't allow himself to do so because he wants to be seen with very pretty girls (this I've heard from him and his friends when discussing if he should date *somegirl* or not). Hell, I've thought he might even be profoundly in love with *somegirl* (in his own way), but he's got such a complicated combination of guilt and desire around this topic because he's really worried that looks and brains don't match, that he wont even date her either! If someone comes to me for advice under this kind of mindset I would repeat the same words,

 

PS. I mean, he even insisted on questioning the sincerity of my intentions when dating unattractive men.

Edited November 20, 2013 by robertasmith

[robertasmith]

I find it strange that you write out such a long-winded post, and end it with a throw-away comment about recently breaking up with your bf of 4 years.

 

It's strange even for me. Have you ever been too tired of crying over something that you don't even know if you feel something anymore or if you're over them already or what? That.

[bumpyroad]

He's always talking about his relationships and primarily about beautiful women, he loves these perfect-faced women and he complains as how they're not smart enough, etc., but can't stop noticing them.

 

Ever heard the phrase "beauty is only skin deep but ugliness goes right down to the bone"?

 

It could have been coined for your "friend".

[Iguanna]

In your mind this person is a superficial guy. But what women usually do, especially when they are in their 20s, is they think that they will be the ones to change someone, someone we call the "bad guy". This is the reason we see good girls with bad guys, alcoholics, abusers, players etc. Some women have this instinct inside them to be the savior who will transform this bad guy to a good guy. The truth is that rarely a bad guy will transform to a good guy. Bad guys are exciting, they offer adventures, but they make good girls waste their time to change them. Sometimes the good girls marry bad guys and get hurt. Sometimes they are smart enough to leave them go hurt some other victim.

 

What I hate most is an arrogant guy. If this person told me what he said to you I think that I would be really close to hit him and tell him to gtfo.

 

Don't waste your time on him or his kind. As much as he admires your brain, eventually he will end up obeying to his"other head".

[runningfar]

I find it strange that you write out such a long-winded post, and end it with a throw-away comment about recently breaking up with your bf of 4 years.

 

I don't. She's explaining why she's extra sensitive right now.

 

I wouldn't continue being friends with this guy. I'm okay with honesty but, acting as if he could do a favor and fall in love with you despite subpar beauty, or whatever he was getting at...

[robertasmith]

Thank you, I would like to add something, I also don’t consider myself any more than average but I do think there’s a chance of someone thinking and feeling I’m beautiful with some degree of sincerity, right? other guys I’ve dated have made me believe this at least. My ex boyfriend is not attractive, and I adored him, I loved many things about his face and body, his eyes were lovely but I always suffered so much when people treated him poorly or different because he wasn’t handsome. We could not get into bars, friends made comments about how we didn’t seem to have much chemistry (once I asked they would say it was only a matter of appearances), etc. People didn’t even know him! It was so unfair and i just tried my best to not feel like **** about this but I never could. We live in such shallow world that every time I dated some attractive douche they’d congratulate me without even talking to the guy. Wrong friends, wrong city, probably all of them. But is it also my problem?

 

I was trying to explain to this shallow guy this particular situation when he questioned my intentions and sincerity for dating an unattractive guy, claiming I was obviously affected by the fact that he was not attractive, and that it probably didn’t work anyways because he wasn’t as attractive as me. He just made me feel like him. He compared us and put me on the same level. “You see? Everyone wants beauty in the end.” And isn’t this what this thread is about? Truth is I felt as lame as he is.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

SincereOnlineGuy:

 

Well, first let me say I'm not a native english speaker, and I got a little confused by your elaborate phrasing. Were you just a little condescending? I was just starting to like you too, excuse me if I read this under the wrong light. I got from what you said that you lost your sympathy after you realized I pretty much offended myself? If I set him up to offend me, well, I don't know about that. I sure did not expect he had this very loving words coming for me when I led the conversation down that road.

 

What you said set me up was my association between beauty and love, and you're right, I don't know for a fact if him being as amazingly shallow as he is would interfere with him finding love, but I do sense there's a connection. This is why: This guy would probably just want to date a very nice girl with average beauty but he can't allow himself to do so because he wants to be seen with very pretty girls (this I've heard from him and his friends when discussing if he should date *somegirl* or not). Hell, I've thought he might even be profoundly in love with *somegirl* (in his own way), but he's got such a complicated combination of guilt and desire around this topic because he's really worried that looks and brains don't match, that he wont even date her either! If someone comes to me for advice under this kind of mindset I would repeat the same words,

 

PS. I mean, he even insisted on questioning the sincerity of my intentions when dating unattractive men.

 

 

Hi, the idea of my 'liking you too'... was my sincere impression based on your having been seemingly secure enough to join in his appreciation of various attractive women, and usually seeing those women in the same way as he did, (viewed independently, I hope).

 

 

While I will agree that IF you had informed us that this guy is always making romantic overtures to women who would rate a "9" (on a scale of 1 to 10), while he himself is a "6.5"... then I would accept that his targeting an unlikely audience is tied directly to his reduced chances of finding love among them.

 

Instead, I pointed out that his merely admiring numerous women (who may well be way out of his league) isn't exactly a factor in rendering him hopeless in terms of finding love in the future.

 

I have to admit that we here can't know every little point represented when you said: "I think you have ridiculously high standards in terms of beauty and you'll never find love thinking like that."

 

But it seems to me that you decided that he was never going to find love... (which, lets be honest, would probably sting you if some "pal" said that about you)...

 

So it was mainly as a reaction to that statement of yours that he said what he did about being there with you.

 

From your statements, we can't tell how serious he is, or if he is actually/realistically talking about dating the top-of-the-line hotties.

 

It is one thing for my friends and I to decide whether "Cindy Crawford" is more attractive than "Kate Moss", but quite another for any of us to think we would stand a chance of dating them.

[FitChick]

Tell him you would gladly have plastic surgery to bring yourself up to his standards but he'll have to pay for it. On the off chance he has that kind of money, get the work done, and then dump his sorry arse for someone better.

[Blade96]

Have a Russian friend like him. (Not my crush, its another Russian.) When we first met he told me that I look pale a bit sickly and it made me look older than my 35 years. I said "WHATT??" to him and to never in this life ever say that to a person because it is not cool, no one wants to be told that. He said ok and because I do not judge on first impressions we actually are very good friends now and become quite fond of each other (he recently did the skype equivalent of taking me to Moscow to meet his mother she does not speak english but I speak Russian so was cool)

 

It was also a cultural thing I think. I don't wear makeup that often, but in Russia, women hardly go to the grocery store without looking like they are on a date. So I can imagine that seeing a woman not in makeup was not common for him to see so Yes, I would look pale in comparison with what he sees every day in Moscow. So - Yeah. I let it go. He has never said anything like that again because we are close and good friends now. He actually does treasure me now

 

although my crush the russian, he noticed right away when I changed my profile pic on skype and said immediately хорошо выглядишь! (You look good!) with a smile. So yeah. One of the reasons I am just friends with the other Russian, I do think he's superficial. And I'm not ugly by any means. Even the superficial Russian said noooo he said, You are not ugly! You just look pale like you werent feeling well. Cultural differences, but, yeah. I wouldn't wanna date my friend, he does though have a lot of cool things about him that I do love. But I'd rather just keep him as a best friend.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Blade96