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How I tried to pitch in for date night and how he told me to put my damn wallet away

mammasita

By mammasita
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Sanman Established Member

Sanman

Posted
Posted
Canada.

 

Unfortunately for you, you'd freeze your balls off in the effort to find a nice wife up here. A lot of people from climates all over the world come here and can't handle it as well they think they will. It's -27C where I am right now and I spent most of the day outside wiping off moisture from my phone to type!

 

But yes, women TEND to be relationship-oriented and have genèrally been socialized as such.

 

Is that because it is too cold to date many people? :p

  • Like 1
ChessPieceFace Established Member

ChessPieceFace

Posted
Posted
Canada.

 

Unfortunately for you, you'd freeze your balls off in the effort to find a nice wife up here. A lot of people from climates all over the world come here and can't handle it as well they think they will. It's -27C where I am right now and I spent most of the day outside wiping off moisture from my phone to type!

 

But yes, women TEND to be relationship-oriented and have genèrally been socialized as such.

 

I wouldn't freeze my balls off, but the Canadian divorce courts would certainly remove them. Some of the most man-hating divorce laws in all of planet Earth.

nomadic_butterfly Established Member

nomadic_butterfly

Posted
Posted
What country is this in? China I guess.

 

Nope, most of the world actually. It is what is innate and then preserved culturally. In the western world, namely Amerikka, there are very different ideals than most of the world. Sometimes it is better (i.e. laws against stoning a cheating wife to death) and sometimes it might not be perceived as better.

 

I am a Caribbean woman and by age 8 I started learning how to cook, clean, and take care of kids. I love it, it suits me and works for me. It feels natural too; the older I get to more maternal and nurturing and compassionate I feel.

 

I only date non-Caribbean men and most are pleasantly surprised at this. It makes me feel like a woman to be able to do this and they in turn take care of me. Doesn't feel like an obligation when it is appreciated just as how it doesn't feel like an obligation if a man is taking care of a woman who returns the favor in ways he likes. Nothing like him coming home to a clean place, a gourmet meal, foot rub, back massage, a shoulder to lean on, an ear to listen and some good loving. Might not work for all but it works for some. No cookie cutter or absolute approach.

  • Like 3
Ruby Slippers Established Member

Ruby Slippers

Posted
Posted

I've only been with strong provider types who want to pay and usually find it emasculating if the woman tries to pay. By this point, yes, I would find it a turn-off to date a guy who wanted to go dutch. But I'm happy with a $5 picnic. It's mostly the act of him providing that I appreciate.

 

I'm from the South, pretty traditional in terms of gender, and happy to do the "woman stuff". For example, if my man gets sick, I treat him like royalty - clean, cool sheets, homemade soup, his favorite treats, steam baths and massages, sympathy, medicine, and movies, whatever his whiny sick butt desires. But I don't expect my man to morph into Mr. Mom. I'm happy if he'll just go get me medicine and give me a little pity when I'm sick.

  • Like 4
dreamingoftigers Established Member

dreamingoftigers

Posted
Posted
I wouldn't freeze my balls off, but the Canadian divorce courts would certainly remove them. Some of the most man-hating divorce laws in all of planet Earth.

 

You're kidding, right?

 

That's laughable. I looked at my options D-wise when going through our separation. I'd be on the hook for support of all kinds. And good luck getting even a completely dysfunctional father away from his kids. He'd practically have to come over with an axe to chop off the kid's fingers before they'd put a stop to visitation.

 

Cripes, there was a case here where people were protesting in front of a prison because this poor woman was court-ordered to being her kids for visitation to a prison where the kid's STEP-father was doing time for sedating and raping women. It didn't end until he finished his time and was deported back to South Africa.

 

I personally knew a guy who was making CRACK in his house and the kids were still over there every weekend.

 

Canadian Law isn't tough on anyone it really should be tough on.

Dark_history Established Member

Dark_history

Posted
Posted (edited)

I only have one thing to say about this...

 

 

Please don't send those tigers to attack me :lmao:

 

You're kidding, right?

 

That's laughable. I looked at my options D-wise when going through our separation. I'd be on the hook for support of all kinds. And good luck getting even a completely dysfunctional father away from his kids. He'd practically have to come over with an axe to chop off the kid's fingers before they'd put a stop to visitation.

 

Cripes, there was a case here where people were protesting in front of a prison because this poor woman was court-ordered to being her kids for visitation to a prison where the kid's STEP-father was doing time for sedating and raping women. It didn't end until he finished his time and was deported back to South Africa.

 

I personally knew a guy who was making CRACK in his house and the kids were still over there every weekend.

 

Canadian Law isn't tough on anyone it really should be tough on.

Edited by Dark_history
crederer Established Member

crederer

Posted
Posted
Canada.

 

Unfortunately for you, you'd freeze your balls off in the effort to find a nice wife up here. A lot of people from climates all over the world come here and can't handle it as well they think they will. It's -27C where I am right now and I spent most of the day outside wiping off moisture from my phone to type!

 

But yes, women TEND to be relationship-oriented and have genèrally been socialized as such.

 

Well in all fairness you're at the most northern part of Canada that represents a metro community.

 

Near Toronto, it's more south than about 20% of the US. The heart of the winter is usually -5C to -10C (23F to 14F). On very rare occasions it will reach about -20C (-4F).

dreamingoftigers Established Member

dreamingoftigers

Posted
Posted
I only have one thing to say about this...

 

 

Please don't send those tigers to attack me :lmao:

 

I'm SO OFFENDED!

 

Just kidding. I used to love South Park. They came out my last year of High School. Canadians love being made fun of. In general. We appreciate good humor.

 

I was expecting some kind of divorce-type-klu-klux-klan gathering of men inflamed over Canadian divorce laws. LOL

 

Well in all fairness you're at the most northern part of Canada that represents a metro community.

 

Near Toronto, it's more south than about 20% of the US. The heart of the winter is usually -5C to -10C (23F to 14F). On very rare occasions it will reach about -20C (-4F).

 

Yes, Toronto is right in a warm zone.

Calgary tends to have very mild winters compared to the rest of the country.

 

Today is warmer where I am. A balmy -24C. Yuck. I hate anything past about -13C

TB Rhine Established Member

TB Rhine

Posted
Posted (edited)
I think it's kinda a shame when any gender seems to want the parts of old gender roles that benefit them but not the others.
Here, here.

 

Do people who ask for equality really want it? I, along with a lot of guys, certainly like chivalry and see a value to it but I think some of us find it odd when it's demanded.
Another thumbs up.

 

I don't think either side is being willfully malicious when it comes to this stuff... the fact is that gender roles are still evolving, and the new battle lines haven't been set in stone yet. Hopefully one day a system will emerge that doesn't rely so much on gender - a true "whoever does the asking pays" or "whoever gets to the door first holds it open" kinda thing, rather than what we have now.

 

I think what is genuinely confusing to some people, as the poster I quoted touches on, is when people embrace certain aspects of a "progressive" mindset where gender roles are concerned - equality in the home and workplace, equal say in making important child-rearing (and other) decisions, etc. - but clings to old-fashioned notions like the guy should be the one who pays, a guy should give up his seat to a girl, etc. I think there is a way of thinking that says these sorts of sexist behaviors/expectations are "harmless," when in fact they are rooted in the same sort of condescending attitudes toward women that the more harmful and overt ones are.

 

You can dress it up and call it "chivalry," but in the end it's based on the idea that women are frail, delicate creatures who need the shelter and protection of male authority - something that both men AND women embrace (or at least quietly tolerate) when it suits them, and demonize when it doesn't.

 

It might not be fair to say this, but the southern gentlemen back home always buy ladies drinks simply because they are a lady not because they want something from us..

 

This gave me a good laugh. Thanks for that.

 

Seriously though - you can't possibly be that naive. Oh wait...

Edited by TB Rhine
MalachiX Established Member

MalachiX

Posted
Posted
Okay, seriously. You are beating the heck out of the obvious point I made.

 

I'm beating the heck out of it because i think it's wrong. It's nothing personal. I think many women on this board would get uncomfortable if a man said he was in love with a women for performing some rather trivial gender obligations from a bygone era without talking about anything unique to her. It's not much different that guys who think love is all about looks. I'm explaining why the original post struck some of us as a bit off and I don't think there's anything weird about that.

 

Of course 110% of men in the world do not value sandwiches and laundry first and foremost. However I think most people, when fàlling behind on the day-to-day wouldn't be "weirded out" in having a spouse that cared enough about THEM to make a little extra effort. This is whether it was a "gender stereotype" or not.

 

Yet I didn't say just a little extra effort. I gave an example and you gave an alternate one in which the woman says, "Hey Sweetheart, I notice you had a load ready to be washed so I did it and its folded on the bed. I didn't know where you want your dress shirts. And since you're coming in late I made you a sandwich. I know that you don't want to miss the game. Don't worry about it."

 

I don't know about other guys but I would be a little weirded out by this because:

 

a.) I don't watch football

b.) I'm pretty damn good at sandwhiches myself

c.) Having my GF do my laundry makes her feel like my mother. I'd find that a lot more emasculating than her paying for a date. Maybe if we're married and we split household chores but otherwise that's not what I'm into.

 

This isn't about a guy whose trying to purchase and control a girl. It was an effort to BE NICE AND CONSIDERATE.

 

I didn't say that. Other guys did and frankly took their concern farther than I would. I don't think this guy was trying to buy love or the OP is a gold-digger.

 

I'm just saying that sometimes posts like this show how we often seem to enjoy the gender roles that benefit us but shun the ones that don't. I don't think only women do this. I know guys who complain about having to "be the man" and do all the chasing in a relationship yet say it's important for a woman to be "loyal" and "obliging" which is really just their way of saying "subordinate." I'm happy to call myself a feminist because I do believe in equality. I just think it's worth while to be aware of it on both sides and how sometimes we undercut it (even if we're unaware of what we're doing).

 

Look, I don't see this as black and white. I also grew up in he South (even though I'm from the East coast), and I got used to certain things about dating. I expect to pay for a woman. I expect to hold the door for her, offer her my coat when it's cold, and do the chasing. I don't have a problem with these things as I consider them part of the culture I grew up in.

 

What I found a bit off-putting is not that she was happy he did this but that this was the only thing that seemed to be noteworthy to her in the post and that her response was, "I'm falling in love!"

 

Past girlfriends have told me moments that made them know they really liked me and all of these things where ones a hell of a lot deeper than some gender role. One GF said she started to fall for me when I went out and got her a replacement rubber ducky (don't laugh) because the one she'd had as a child had been lost in a hurricane. Another said she really started to care when we were about to have sex for the first time and I stopped for a second and said, "just want to make sure you want this." Another said it was when she heard me talk about never really identifying with one race and understanding how so many mixed-race kids are outsiders. I think all of these things are a lot more interesting/valuable than always paying for dinner.

  • Like 1
MalachiX Established Member

MalachiX

Posted
Posted
To take the analogy in an even weirder non-political/feminism direction, if I was super-into really kinky sex and my husband brought home some kind of warped dildo/handcuff/whip/plug/shock device thing I would be all "oh wow honey that's great, be still my heart." But if I wasn't at all into kinky sex but HE THOUGHT I was and did that, I could still appreciate the effort. Even though I might actually have nightmares.

 

Ok, I'm going to go with you on this metaphor only because you used the term, "warped dildo-handcuff-whip-plug-shock device-thing." It sounds like something a mad sex scientist would create to use for world domination :D

 

Anyway, I think in this case you'd appreciate the effort but I don't think, if you weren't into that, you'd go online and say, "my guy just got me some dirty sex toy. I don't like it but is it too soon to fall in love? :love::love::love:"

 

Ironically enough, if he made the kinky sex toy mistake I doubt the thrasd would've gone on this back and forth.

 

Of course because she wouldn't have implied that this made her fall in love with him.

 

It was a NICE gesture and SHE liked it.

 

If he's a nice guy it was a nice gesture. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that he's a nice guy. But that's not what I found off putting.

 

 

Once again, it's not really hard to pay for dinner. It requires money rather than requiring sensitivity, understanding, or compassion. It's certainly a nice thing to do but I think I've been surprised how many men I've seen do it all the time yet be complete controlling/sexist jerks. I've even heard these guys go on rants about how they're "the man" and they "know how to take care of a women" but "expect her to do her part which means cooking and cleaning." Living in the South, you get to see the good side of old fashioned thinking and the bad.

 

Maybe some women DO want an old fashioned relationship where a man offers the decision making and money while a woman puts in the house-hold duties and attractiveness.

 

Reading other threads however it seems like most women on these boards think gender roles are antiquated and believe that relationships come in all shapes and sizes. Most seem to want to be treated as equals and not have expectations formed based on outdated notions of what a man or woman should be.

 

If that's the case, then maybe it's worth considering that perhaps this thread sent a little bit of an odd message to some guys by implying that having this dude pay for dinner was enough for her to fall in love with him. I don't think it's crazy for me to suggest that and I don't think you have to abandon a love of chivalry to understand my point.

  • Like 1
Grumpybutfun Established Member

Grumpybutfun

Posted
Posted (edited)

Malachi:

Equality and gender roles are two different components of Sociology. It is because of equality that women now get to choose gender roles, but gender roles do not in fact force the issue of equality. Women may be equal to men in terms of voting and being allowed to work any job and still choose traditional gender roles such as being a stay at home wife and mother and being a homemaker. By the same token, men may not believe in equality and still believe that a woman should earn a comparable amount of money that he does, and pay for their own meals out. These two components are not interdependent on each other except that due to equality women have more freedom in choosing and men have more freedom in not being the head of households and sole breadwinners.

The OP, IMHO, and she can correct me if I am wrong, was merely making a lighthearted statement to her bf's traditional chivalry and she was not demanding anything in exchange. I did not take exception to her remark as I thought it was done in fun and with humor. I thought she was bragging on her bf's good gesture.

 

I also do not see anyone on this thread shunning gender roles. Did someone say their man could buy them dinner but they were never going to make him dinner? Did I miss that one?

Best,

Grumps

 

p.s. I don't think anyone really thinks a meal paid for bought her love.

Edited by Grumpybutfun
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