BS - WS thinking about AP

[Spark1111]

What the heck does going on a hayride have to do with jogging in the dark. If you were to say, that you caught a flesh eating disease from sitting on the buggy and you lost your job, then your house, believe me...you would not be saying....oh...the day that destroyed my life...was just sooooo beautiful.

 

Again, if that is how you work, then that is how you work. To say that ALL WS feel the way the original question is asked is ridiculous.

 

And, as many a cheater has that unique ability to compartmentalized until a DDAY and exposure, maybe you can continue to say....the day I caught that flesh eating disease that destroyed my life was AFTER one of the best hay rides of my life!

 

cause and effect still does not compute.

[Realist3]

What the heck does going on a hayride have to do with jogging in the dark. If you were to say, that you caught a flesh eating disease from sitting on the buggy and you lost your job, then your house, believe me...you would not be saying....oh...the day that destroyed my life...was just sooooo beautiful.

 

Again, if that is how you work, then that is how you work. To say that ALL WS feel the way the original question is asked is ridiculous.

 

 

 

It is actually very simple.

 

Given the fact that I am still dealing with the effects from that broken hand I could easily say, "I wish I had never gone on that hayride." But the fact is I enjoyed the hayride even though the event's following ended up being calamitous. It doesn't change my view of the hayride.

 

My MOW and I were recently able to take our first trip together. We had a great time. No matter what happens in the future what we shared will be very fond memories. Those memories aren't going to suddenly turn into bad memories because the affair blows up and all hell breaks loose. Nothing is going to change the breakfast we had at a French bistro. It will always be a fond memory no matter what.

 

. I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand.

 

 

I'm sure there are some BS's that would like to hope that because the affair destroyed their marriage or the path they were on that somehow everything involving the affair is now seen as a bad memory, but that simply is not the case.

[Realist3]

cause and effect still does not compute.

 

I think you are missing the issue.

 

1, 5, 10, 20 or so years from now when something triggers a certain memory the WS had with the AP doesn't mean it will be bad because the marriage ended up dissolving because of it.

[rumbleseat]

I don't know. I don't think that I could stomach the idea that a ws could put their bs the through the agony of finding out they had cheated, and it a terrible experience. On the other hand, I don't know how a bs can stomach being told there were good times either. What was the price of those fond memories? Is it worth it? I would likely think the answer is "no"

 

Any way you slice it, it would just plain suck.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Your broken hand had absolutely nothing to do with the hayride..it was from the jogging.

 

Again, I will state, for some...they will always view everything/parts/ap in some positive light. NOT ALL WS WILL.

 

I am not sure why you insist on absolutes.

 

Anywho....enough said.

[Realist3]

I can't imagine any situation where it would be considered be a good idea for a WS to speak of any fond memories that may have about the AP. It serves no purpose.

[Realist3]

Your broken hand had absolutely nothing to do with the hayride..it was from the jogging.

 

Again, I will state, for some...they will always view everything/parts/ap in some positive light. NOT ALL WS WILL.

 

I am not sure why you insist on absolutes.

 

Anywho....enough said.

 

I'm not speaking in absolutes at all.

 

If I hadn't gone to the hayride I wouldn't have been jogging home in the dark.

 

"If I hadn't taken that trip there would have been no receipts for my wife to find and she wouldn't have divorced me." And yes the previous statement was a hypothetical. The point being is that the positive feelings of a particular event don't change because of some later negative feelings that happen afterward.

 

I really don't know what you are trying to say at this point.

[whatatangledweb]

If my husband told me he had fond memories of someone that helped to destroy my life, I would divorce. He says he despises her because he can now look back and see how she was controlling and manipulating him. He also hates who he was during that time and that is what he thinks of if I bring up his affair. So does he have fond memories? I have no clue and if he wants to stay married, it has to stay that way.

 

I don't think people still in an affair can tell you how they will feel when it ends. It's the ending that changes everything, not during it . IMO

[velvette]

If my husband told me he had fond memories of someone that helped to destroy my life, I would divorce. He says he despises her because he can now look back and see how she was controlling and manipulating him. He also hates who he was during that time and that is what he thinks of if I bring up his affair. So does he have fond memories? I have no clue and if he wants to stay married, it has to stay that way.

 

I don't think people still in an affair can tell you how they will feel when it ends. It's the ending that changes everything, not during it . IMO

 

Exactly. Whether via Dday or by imploding on themselves, many A end very badly. Masks come off, rose colored glasses shatter, etc.

 

Fond memories have a way of disappearing amid all that debris. Hard to be fond of time you shared with someone when they are not who you thought they were and the grand love was just smoke/mirrors/endless ego stroking.

[compulsivedancer]

Ok,

 

So compulsivedancer started a thread specifically targeted at WS and thoughts of AP after Dday. How and when thoughts and feelings go away - when it stops.

 

Moderators stepped in because BS's were jumping on - outside of the constraint of the question to WS only and steering it towards their own agendas. I would like to open it up to BS and WS and anyone else.

 

I will start specifically with one comment from poster that "triggered" me wanting to jump on the other thread.

 

Memories will ALWAYS be fond, but no one is dumb enough to tell their BS that...come on we are talking about people who are trying to stay in their marriages!

 

So I wonder based on this - how full and healthy reconciliation happens if this is not addressed openly? Should WS bear the burden of dealing with this on their own - or maybe in IC, or does this require more honesty with BS and in probably in MC ?

 

Nice! My last thread was spawned from one of your posts, and now your thread is spawned from one of my threads. Hopefully yours doesn't get as thoroughly threadjacked as mine did (sorry about that, btw).

 

Actually, H and I HAVE discussed my feelings for OM. At one point early on in R, he actually comforted me because I missed OM. A few times H has offered points of view on OM that actually helped me move on.

 

DDay happened right when I was reaching that tipping point emotionally with OM, where I was really beginning to feel something.

 

H knows this. He doesn't like it, but he's glad that at least DDay happened before we reached the ILY stage.

 

We certainly haven't talked about every single emotion I feel, one way or another, and I don't tell H every time I think of OM, but we've discussed my feelings. He's not happy that OM still occupies any part of my mind, but he hasn't kicked me out either.

 

That said, we don't talk about it much, and it is challenging to heal a part of me that never gets to be expressed. I think that is part of where being on LS has helped. It was a place I could talk about those things that I can't really discuss much with anyone else.

[thecharade]

This is a very complicated thing, people comparing apples and oranges. I have seen many people have As in my life, too many to even count. I have a wide circle of friends, a big family, and I live in a big city. I am also a people person and people enjoy talking to me, sometimes crying on my shoulder. All that being said, some people were so burned by the A experience--involved with users or players, whether they were OPs or MMs--that they have no fond memories. That's a fact. A couple people (far less) seem to have some fond thoughts, but only in a passing, kind-hearted way. To be honest, because of the illicit nature, one person often feels very hurt and taken advantage of when things end, sometimes both do. And that pain--coupled with the fact that you brought it on yourself, and now others are hurting, too--changes your line of thinking. Permanently.

 

Take me, for example. I had a long first love R with my AP (we were single then) and the A was a re-do. If anyone should still have fond memories, it should be me. I've known him and loved him forever. I thought I'd love him the same way forever.

 

Fast forward 1 1/2 years after ending the A, and my memories have changed. I regret things. I regret putting his needs before mine during the A, as he didn't do the same. I have very negative feelings about what he did to his wife. If he wanted to stay M, that was fine. Then what was his goal? His motivation for hurting both her and I? Who does that? I'll never know, but I wish I could undo the whole experience. I feel angry and hurt and taken advantage of. Has that changed how I feel about him? Yes! I do not think of him with disgust, but I see now that it would be possible.

 

Negative fallout, in any form, usually does change our positive memories into negative.

[dichotomy]

Thanks for all the replies. While I got NC, the real work for my wife (and I) did not start until she painfully and suddenly (and to my shock) admitted she still held very positive views of her relationship with MM. Until that point I assumed with dDay and NC she had flipped her views and feelings.

 

Like some here said - her confession of how she still felt/thought positively of OM/MM after dDay - I nearly divorced her - but instead it was the kick in the pants to take this sudden burst of 100% honesty and deal with it in MC and as a couple. It was so necessary for her and for the marriage to face this head on. With MC it took a long time for her get perspective and grown and change - but it happened so very slowly. As I look back I am know grateful for her honesty because she would not have been able to resolve it on her own, she was in a several year mental health fog like you would not believe.

 

I do think a WS needs to address and process their thoughts of AP deeply, whether openly with BS and in MC, or on their own and in IC. If perspectives and thoughts and feelings can not be resolved - then all you have is NC and a decisions to psychically remain in the marriage. AP needs to be resolved inside the heart and head of WS - and it does depend on the perople involved, type and length of affair, and whats state WS was in at the time.

Edited November 19, 2013 by dichotomy

[ClemsonTigers]

My MOW and I were recently able to take our first trip together. We had a great time. No matter what happens in the future what we shared will be very fond memories. Those memories aren't going to suddenly turn into bad memories because the affair blows up and all hell breaks loose. Nothing is going to change the breakfast we had at a French bistro. It will always be a fond memory no matter what.

 

. I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand.

 

 

If you are lucky, one day you will yourself be betrayed and realize just how vulgar these words and events are/were. When it happens to you, these "memories" become tainted….the wayward lens comes off and the ugliness of the whole fake "breakfast we had at a French bistro" comes home to rot. When the karma bus hits you better not complain either…..just reflect back on your "good memories" to keep you warm at night.

 

Now I'm not wishing the karma bus upon you….just seeing it as inevitable….because I've been done the road of selfishness and entitlement before you (not to this vulgar extreme). It's actually mean to flaunt your disgusting relationship among all these betrayed spouses and you seem to take pleasure in doing so.

 

I have never counseled a successful recovery where the former wayward spouse retained "happy" memories of a pretend relationship of mutual destruction. It may take a lot of work to bring a former wayward to that conclusion and some|many never get there. It's sad to see people celebrate sin.

 

On another note, I have also never counseled a successful recovery where the affair partners continued working together. It's like a drunk claiming he|she recovered by hanging out in the bar every night. It's impossible and far too often a lie to cover up the long term continuation of the now underground back stairwell|coat closet affair itself. In fact, I am so adament about separating from the affair partner that I refuse to continue counseling couples that fail the "no contact" standard because it's an absolute waste of time.

[Sub]

I do think the perspective of a memory can change, though, particularly when it comes to moments that you share with someone. You're not really thinking of the context when you're in the moment. As an example: There are certain times I remember with my WS that were "special", moments on a park bench watching our son play, talking about the future, seemingly in love. Down the line, after D-Day, those moments didn't seem as special anymore, because they occurred while she was more into the OM. I would assume the same can be true for WS and their AP.

[Sub]

As it pertains to the OP, I'd think working with the AP would throw any possibility of NOT thinking about him or her out the window. Your BS is a better man than I am for being ok with it.

[compulsivedancer]

Thanks for all the replies. While I got NC, the real work for my wife (and I) did not start until she painfully and suddenly (and to my shock) admitted she still held very positive views of her relationship with MM. Until that point I assumed with dDay and NC she had flipped her views and feelings.

 

Like some here said - her confession of how she still felt/thought positively of OM/MM after dDay - I nearly divorced her - but instead it was the kick in the pants to take this sudden burst of 100% honesty and deal with it in MC and as a couple. It was so necessary for her and for the marriage to face this head on. With MC it took a long time for her get perspective and grown and change - but it happened so very slowly. As I look back I am know grateful for her honesty because she would not have been able to resolve it on her own, she was in a several year mental health fog like you would not believe.

 

I do think a WS needs to address and process their thoughts of AP deeply, whether openly with BS and in MC, or on their own and in IC. If perspectives and thoughts and feelings can not be resolved - then all you have is NC and a decisions to psychically remain in the marriage. AP needs to be resolved inside the heart and head of WS - and it does depend on the perople involved, type and length of affair, and whats state WS was in at the time.

 

Dichotomy, if I remember your story correctly, I would be surprised if your WS didn't retain some fond memories, especially early on. Correct me if I'm wrong...wasn't she dating/sleeping with him through your entire relationship? By the time DDay happened, hadn't she been with him longer than you?

 

I'm not trying to be mean, but it actually surprises me that she decided to stay with you and not be with him. She would've had a very strong pattern of behavior regarding him, and presumably strong feelings created over a rather long relationship. Hopefully, the fact that she chose to stay with you and not go to him was an indication that she understood how distributive their relationship was.

 

I do not envy you having to figure that out. It sounds like it's been an uphill battle, but one that you're starting to see the end of (the battle not the R). I hope that you are seeing rewards in the relationship and not constantly stuck in the frustrations.

[compulsivedancer]

I do think a WS needs to address and process their thoughts of AP deeply, whether openly with BS and in MC, or on their own and in IC. If perspectives and thoughts and feelings can not be resolved - then all you have is NC and a decisions to psychically remain in the marriage. AP needs to be resolved inside the heart and head of WS - and it does depend on the perople involved, type and length of affair, and whats state WS was in at the time.

 

I think that this is part of what I'm trying to express in my other thread. People here basically counseled me to rug-sweep my feelings for OM instead of actually processing them.

 

I was told to immediately think of OM in another matter, to "just get over it," to stop thinking about it, etc, as if any of those things were instantly possible. Like everything, it takes time. It takes time to think things through, to reevaluate, to get over myself enough to stop asking questions about his feelings for me ("Did he really care?" etc, as if it makes any difference now!).

 

I was/am afraid that if I lied to myself or just set aside my thoughts and feelings, that I would be confronted with them years later, or that I'd never really get over them.

 

Yes, I considered my husband's fear that by thinking about them, I was giving them weight and "pining." And there are probably times that I did this, but most of the time, I was just trying to process and understand. So that I could heal and move on.

[drifter777]

I think that this is part of what I'm trying to express in my other thread. People here basically counseled me to rug-sweep my feelings for OM instead of actually processing them.

 

I was told to immediately think of OM in another matter, to "just get over it," to stop thinking about it, etc, as if any of those things were instantly possible.

I can only speak as a BH and, for me, I don't want to hear anything positive about what she did come out of her mouth. She can't continue to have feelings for OM and cannot think that any part of it was fun or good or anything positive. I understand that it is unfair, unreasonable, and probably impossible for her to have only negative memories and feelings, but I don't care. No matter how she feels she better tell me that it was a terrible mistake that she regrets. She better tell me the sex was awful and that everything about OM made her realize she made a horribly bad decision. That now when she thinks about it she wants to vomit.

 

I want her to be sorry and remember her cheating as a selfish, disgusting, humiliating part of her life. As for all you cheaters - deal with your "I miss them" feelings on your own and never, ever tell me you liked the sex. Most WS's won't accept my position but how many BS's disagree with my feelings on this subject?

[compulsivedancer]

I can only speak as a BH and, for me, I don't want to hear anything positive about what she did come out of her mouth. She can't continue to have feelings for OM and cannot think that any part of it was fun or good or anything positive. I understand that it is unfair, unreasonable, and probably impossible for her to have only negative memories and feelings, but I don't care. No matter how she feels she better tell me that it was a terrible mistake that she regrets. She better tell me the sex was awful and that everything about OM made her realize she made a horribly bad decision. That now when she thinks about it she wants to vomit.

 

I want her to be sorry and remember her cheating as a selfish, disgusting, humiliating part of her life. As for all you cheaters - deal with your "I miss them" feelings on your own and never, ever tell me you liked the sex. Most WS's won't accept my position but how many BS's disagree with my feelings on this subject?

 

Understood, and that's probably good advice in most cases. But when I'm posting on LS (particularly back then, when H was not on LS), I'm not talking to him; I'm talking to a community of people that I hope can help me figure out how to deal with my thoughts and feelings.

 

Part of why I brought those feelings about OM to LS was because I couldn't really discuss them with H, and even if he was willing to listen, I didn't want to do that to him.

[compulsivedancer]

Hopefully, the fact that she chose to stay with you and not go to him was an indication that she understood how distributive their relationship was.

 

Grr, autocorrect. That was supposed to read "destructive," not "distributive." That's what I get for posting from my phone.

[dichotomy]

I can only speak as a BH and, for me, I don't want to hear anything positive about what she did come out of her mouth. She can't continue to have feelings for OM and cannot think that any part of it was fun or good or anything positive. I understand that it is unfair, unreasonable, and probably impossible for her to have only negative memories and feelings, but I don't care. No matter how she feels she better tell me that it was a terrible mistake that she regrets. She better tell me the sex was awful and that everything about OM made her realize she made a horribly bad decision. That now when she thinks about it she wants to vomit.

 

I want her to be sorry and remember her cheating as a selfish, disgusting, humiliating part of her life. As for all you cheaters - deal with your "I miss them" feelings on your own and never, ever tell me you liked the sex. Most WS's won't accept my position but how many BS's disagree with my feelings on this subject?

 

Most BS's would not want to here this - but many also want the truth - all of the truth - so it can either be dealt with or divorce. If they decided to stay then they now what needs to be fixed to make it work right to make it better.

 

I have no issues if WS keeping some thoughts to themselves - as long as they can correct it and change their view towards their spouse. But sometimes it takes two to fix things and move forwards

[drifter777]

Understood, and that's probably good advice in most cases. But when I'm posting on LS (particularly back then, when H was not on LS), I'm not talking to him; I'm talking to a community of people that I hope can help me figure out how to deal with my thoughts and feelings.

 

Part of why I brought those feelings about OM to LS was because I couldn't really discuss them with H, and even if he was willing to listen, I didn't want to do that to him.

 

The feedback you get from BS's is not going to be very comforting when the subject is how much you miss AP. You can post wherever you like, I guess, but I think that subject is better discussed in the OM/OW forum.

[compulsivedancer]

The feedback you get from BS's is not going to be very comforting when the subject is how much you miss AP. You can post wherever you like, I guess, but I think that subject is better discussed in the OM/OW forum.

 

I've considered it. I don't like the OM/OW forum very much. Also, when I started at LS, on the first post I read, the WS (I think it was Anne) was strongly cautioned that if she wanted to save her marriage, post here, not there.

 

If there was a WS forum, that would be the obvious place. But there isn't. I do like the feedback from BSs, but in this matter, the counsel could've used a bit more nuance.

 

Besides, I wasn't looking for comfort. I was looking for help. I resurrected that thread to report back on my progress and what worked/what didn't work.

 

Also, the forum rules allow me to post here and ask specifically for WS input. That is why my thread about this has been moderated. (I think it's the only one I've done that in), and incidentally, why Dichotomy started a new thread open to all on the subject.

Edited November 20, 2013 by compulsivedancer

[Realist3]

I think it is just fine to be discussed right here, and while it may get some negative reactions that is what is to be expected to some degree. I would expect people to use some discretion if it bothers them that much.

 

While drifter and Dichotomy have different takes on the subject I can see both points of view, but I think I side with drifter more in that I can't see the benefit announcing any positive memory that may have come up for whatever reason. It just seems cruel to me.

[anne1707]

I think one of the problems I have with what some are saying in this thread is that the WS must feel hate or anger at the AP when they remember them. Now I know I went through a period of time when I felt anger but I don't anymore. I am now indifferent to him. I can remember things but I don't bother to try because those memories are neither good nor bad. He is no longer important to me or part of my life.

 

Surely this indifference is a healthier better place to be rather than still having emotions invested in it all. Hate and anger are emotions after all so that to me is still giving the AP some power or influence over the WS.