Affair, Recovery, Separation

[Yarrow]

I agree with knitwit 100%.

 

She reached out to me a couple days ago to talk...the discussion was mainly to let me know that if I am talking about divorce, she is going to distance herself from me.

 

Sounds very reasonable. You can't argue with that logic. You are talking about dissolving the marriage, and in response, she is going to act as though the marriage is in the process of being dissolved. What else were you expecting?

 

Put yourself in my shoes...should you care to ask...i spent 25 years with her...25 years of putting my head down and going to work day after day, building a million dollar business and all she wants to do is take the checks to the bank, sit on the couch and watch tv, eat chips and ice cream and talk about how tired she is all the time. She has zero hobbies, and has lived a Co-Dependent life around me. I have always, always, ALWAYS made myself available for her, my kids and creating a home life. I may be busy with work, but I never let that take away from my family...so dont get the impression I'm a work feign and I neglected her.

 

You may be busy with work, but you were also busy carrying on with another woman. That is taking away from your family, but I think there are a lot of men who think it doesn't. That they are entitled to both. Given the way you talk in your posts, I somehow doubt she was as terrible as all that. I get a sneaking suspicion that you tend to minimize her contribution in order to puff yourself up. It wouldn't surprise me if she has spent years thinking that if she could be better somehow, then you would treat her better. It never works that way and she knows it now. And if she knows it now, you're chances of enticing her back are slim to none.

 

I also felt like she continued to say the same things as before. Things like accept her as she is, not tolerating the suffering she went through.

 

Uh...And you think this is asking for too much of you? Because if it is, then she's right to walk away. Discussion over.

 

She also said how she dreams and gets excited to find that person that will give the love and happiness that she so desperately has begged for. That really bugs the f***ing s**t out of me.

 

Oh, I bet it does. I sure bet it does!

[littlejaz]

Knitwit, thank you so much for your reply. I hope the OP gets as much out of it as I did. My STBXH is addicted to prescription meds and cheated on me. He refuses to admit that he has a problem other than me. He is a master at justifying and blame shifting, so nothing is his fault. You gave me some great insight.

 

I commend you for explaining rather than attacking him. I know that tough love can work at times, it just seemed to me that OP is trying and working hard on resolving his issues and it served no good to jump all over him. But your post was very educational and empathetic and I hope he takes it in the spirit it was intended, IMO.

 

And if English is your second language (reason for editing-trying to write in English) you have mastered it very well.

 

Thank you again.

[dreamingoftigers]

Knitwit, thank you so much for your reply. I hope the OP gets as much out of it as I did. My STBXH is addicted to prescription meds and cheated on me. He refuses to admit that he has a problem other than me. He is a master at justifying and blame shifting, so nothing is his fault. You gave me some great insight.

 

I commend you for explaining rather than attacking him. I know that tough love can work at times, it just seemed to me that OP is trying and working hard on resolving his issues and it served no good to jump all over him. But your post was very educational and empathetic and I hope he takes it in the spirit it was intended, IMO.

 

And if English is your second language (reason for editing-trying to write in English) you have mastered it very well.

 

Thank you again.

 

My husband as well had cheating issues and got into my prescription drugs before. He refused to go to meetings and historically blame-shifted to me.

 

Reading Knitwits post reminded about meetings and what he needs to get from them. I've been working on myself for years now.

 

Reading the post encouraged me to talk to my husband about again attending meetings and he has committed to going back weekly now. So thank you knitwit.

 

I will attend after I am home from work after Christmas.

[knitwit]

Saaben900, I want to go back to your first post. I have a really hard time grasping the timing of everything. You said

 

about 2 years ago, after 5 years of acting out in addict behavior off an on, I ended up participating in an affair. The affair lasted 14 months.

before I was officially outed, I came clean...I couldnt handle the double life, I was using drugs, having an affair and trying to maintain a family life. I was an utter and complete mess.

 

So, does this mean that you were in active addiction for 5 years, then got into an affair two years ago? So that basically you have been in active addiction/recovery process for the last 7 years?

 

Also, you started a yearish-long affair, and then confessed about the affair, before you were "officially outed" (so were you unofficially outed?) about 9 months prior to your first post?

 

Did your wife know about your addiction prior to the affair, or was the confession a full-on coming clean about everything?

 

I am trying to get a handle on how long your wife and kids have living on the crazy train, by which I mean dealing with your addict behaviors. It looks like at least 5-7 years.

 

However, it is correct to say that they've only been informed, or at least that your wife has been only informed, of the reasons why in the last 9-10 months?

 

If this is the case, you've knowingly been in the game for half a decade or more- your wife and family are in very, very early stages of recovery.

 

 

During these nine months, if I was going to get honest with someone, including myself, I could not stop thinking about my affair partner. I battled these thoughts with all my recovery tools and tried everything I could to escape the thoughts of missing her, desiring her and feeling wanted and special.

I could only disclose to people around me that I still have "memories" of my affair partner that I'm trying to get over. But what it was in my reality...internal torture. I just kept it buried and kept trying to fight it out of my life.[/Quote]

 

Why did you keep this to yourself?Why not discuss it with your sponsor? Did you discuss with your therapist? Surely your addiction specialist therapist and your NA groups emphasized that you are only as healthy as the secrets you keep. This is a self-sabotage. This was still a secret high IMO.

 

My wife would show glimpses of making some positive changes in her life that helped me feel connected and satisfied with her, but it was only glimpses. I could tell that it took alot of energy and effort on her part to keep up on personal hygiene and taking care of herself. But when she did start caring for herself, it did help alleviate my obsessive missing my affair partner.[/Quote]

 

Your wife is coming out of a devastating event- learning about her husband's infidelity. And, also possibly, finally learning the truth about your addiction. It really is a bomb- it causes her to look at EVERYTHING in her past, wondering what is true, what was false, who ARE you? Is she at risk of STDs? HIV? How long have you really been involved with drugs, with other women? What else aren't you telling her? How can ever trust you again?

 

At the same time, you were still obsessing about the AP. You were still running a checklist in your head thinking of the AP. You certainly don't speak lovingly or respectfully of your wife. So I doubt your wife has gotten many good feelings or positive feedback from you, either. In fact, pretty everything you say about her is negative.

 

 

Over the 9 months...if I ever did mention anything about the slightest desire of my needs, it would be like disclosure day all over again...melt downs from her, screaming at me and all that emotional wreckage would come out. I would just take it all and not say anything to provoke more.[/Quote]

 

Neither of you handled this well. You know, you're both human. You weren't being honest with her, she, like most betrayed spouses and spouses of addicted people, was not happy hearing anything about what YOU needed at that time. She was still trying to make sense of everything and stop her own bleeding, most likely.

 

At our last marriage counseling session...I had just finished an endurance race, my wife came and watched me as she would frequently come to watch. [/Quote]

 

It's nice to see that she was supportive of you in your endurance race!

 

In our counseling session I expressed with deep emotion that I wished I had someone to actually do these activities with, like an active participant. I said it in the easiest way possible, crying the whole frigin time.

 

Well, that was it...she flipped out and told me to leave...which was typical.

This time I left...I moved out and got a room. This time I was gutted, emptied, nothing left to give. [/Quote]

 

I am sorry you have felt so badly. I can tell you just from my own experience, basically if I were in your wife's shoes, and I was sticking around after addiction and infidelity and not even a year had gone by, I was willing to support you in your endurance training and even go to the races, support you while you were gone to your meetings, basically still holding down the fort while you were out and about doing your things, and then in marital counselling my husband cried that he was still lonely, what I was doing still wasn't enough...I'd be done, too. I suspect you and your wife are about in the same place emotionally.

 

I told her I had been gutted. I have laid out on the floor for everyone to observe and have their way with me. I have complied to all requests for recovery. I have done everything I can. I'm done.

The level of turmoil living like this is too much, I will leave. I would rather be alone in a room and be at peace. [/Quote]

 

I am so sorry, you have put your heart into this and are really trying. The only thing I can at this point is, I do not know anyone, not a single person, who hasn't felt the way you described above when giving a 100% effort into an attempt to recover from addiction.

 

It is NOT easy. It is the hardest you will ever do. What you are feeling now, it doesn't mean that your recovery isn't working, that your marriage still can't work, that your efforts are for nothing. It just means that you are on the road and that you have some tweaking to do, some work to do.

 

I have been gone for 1.5 months now. I still go to the house, that is where my home office is. So we still see each other, I see the kids, I do things with the kids.

I told her I want a divorce. I cant do this anymore. She is still responding in the same ways to me. maybe at different intensity's but with the same message.

 

Have you discussed this with your sponsor? Do you talk about it in your meetings? There is a reason that newbies are told not to make any major decisions within the first year. If you are getting some downtime now, maybe wait and see how that goes.

 

I'm a lonely mess.[/Quote]

But still clean, yes? That is a major victory! Take it and build off it!

 

Another reason why I decided to leave is I have had so much torture over the radical amputation of my affair partner, that I made the decision to contact her. I am not looking to have sex with her or a long term relationship...I need to know if I actually have feelings for her. After nine months of not being able to get her out of my head...I need to find out why and get an end to that question.[/Quote]

 

At this point, your AP should be considered another drug, IMO. You can't get her out of your head, but then again, you have kept her inside. She should be a secret that is aired out. Do you the same thing you would do if you felt a craving for your drug- call your sponsor.

 

Keeping a mental scorecard with your AP will ensure that your wife loses. It will keep you focused negatively on your wife's shortcomings, on her wrongs, on her failings, and it will prevent you from seeing the good that she is doing. It is like still being high on drugs and not seeing the reality.

 

If that leads to a relationship, or no relationship or final closure and I can go on then fine...I am not trying to define the goal of talking to her, I just know that I have unresolved stuff to deal with concerning her.[/Quote]

Again, to me this is a "'I'm gonna kick tomorrow" or "one more time won't hurt" signal. You are trying to get a high, a good feeling, IMO.

 

I am going to NA meetings almost every night, I have a sponsor and I am working my recovery.[/Quote]

 

Excellent!

 

I miss my wife for very specific reasons...I dont miss her behaviors that got me here.

I know it takes 2, and I have OVER owned my part....she is quick to say it's all on me...and I have not gotten a different message from her.[/Quote]

 

Again, your wife's behaviors have ZERO to do with you being an addict. They have ZERO to do with your destructive choice to get into an affair. You own both of those things 100%.

 

They ARE, in fact, on YOU. It is really impossible for you to "over own" this.

 

It is just my suspicion, but your wife probably keeps pushing back and flipping out on your because she can see that you keep trying to put ownership of things YOU did on her.

 

Until you can truly say and believe that, while you might have really not liked some of her actions or behaviors, and your marriage was on the rocks even before your addiction kicked in, but YOU are the one who blew it up...then you are still blameshifting IMO.

 

Get rid of that AP scorecard! Give yourself a chance to detox from it and see if things look differently....I would bet my house that they will.

 

I told her divorce...I dont know if that will actually happen, but I am taking steps to something instead of just sitting and floundering. It's not over till the papers are signed...so I know there is time.[/Quote]

 

This is a very dangerous game, IMO. You don't have the only say in getting divorced. Your wife has told you that she is very vulnerable right now. It can be over for you long before the papers have been signed. It can end for you at the next gym class, at her next trip to the grocery store. You don't know who she'll meet, and she has already indicated that she is dreaming of a better life.

 

I am not saying this to be hurtful, but only truthful: there are many, many, many men who will treat her better than you have, based on your addiction and infidelity. It will not take a particularly special man to give your wife and kids a more stable, enjoyable, caring life, or to be a better role model for your children thank you've provided in the last 5-7 years. You've set a very low bar. It is dangerous to push away your wife until you can begin to strongly rebuild. Your strongest asset with your wife is your long history with her, but even this is now a tenuous hold at best. You are at very high risk of losing your wife.

 

I just dont have high hopes that she can work her recovery and come back on a better path.[/Quote]

 

You are going to be divorced if you keep focused on her and her recovery (or lack thereof by your standards, 9 months in.) Did you know that many betrayed spouses don't even get hit the deep anger stage until Month 6? She has a long recovery from the pain you inflicted. If you continue to hurt her you will lose her.

 

You've noted that you are doing better since you've moved out. She's noted that she is also doing better, now that you've moved out. You are both now removed from the drama, the intense negativity, and you are both healing. That is a good place to be!

 

My recommendation to you is, take the divorce off the table, and agree to date. Agree to date only each other, no other people. Come clean about your obsession with your AP and treat the AP like another drug- let your wife know you are sharing it in meetings and working it out at Tell her the truth, that it has slowed down your recovery but it won't stop it.

 

Read Surviving An Affair to get an honest feel for what the infidelity part of your actions have done to your wife. Get His Needs, Her Needs so that the two of you can safely begin to rebuild.

 

Realize that your wife's recovery is going to happen in her own time. She is on a very different timetable than you, and honestly, you cannot imagine the pain you have caused her.

 

And, give yourself a LOT of credit- you have stayed clean through all of this very hard, very draining, very difficult emotional stuff! THAT IS HUGE! That is NUMBER ONE. If nothing else, if the worlds ends tonight, you know that YOU are taking care of YOU and staying clean.

 

Lastly- my guy and I used to go to meetings together. Whenever possible, we would hit up meetings where the Al or Naranon meetings were held along side the AA/NA meetings. He even bravely ventured into a Naranon meeting with me once. He was nervous because he believed that that the Naranon meetings were addict-bashing sessions; it was not that at all. Naranon helped me maintain my love for him, helped me separate out the addict behaviors from the real man. It was very helpful for me to attend meetings with him, too, so I could learn more about the struggles and feelings and experiences that he and other addicts had.

 

Good luck to you.

Edited November 27, 2013 by knitwit

[knitwit]

Knitwit, thank you so much for your reply. I hope the OP gets as much out of it as I did. My STBXH is addicted to prescription meds and cheated on me. He refuses to admit that he has a problem other than me. He is a master at justifying and blame shifting, so nothing is his fault. You gave me some great insight.

 

I commend you for explaining rather than attacking him. I know that tough love can work at times, it just seemed to me that OP is trying and working hard on resolving his issues and it served no good to jump all over him. But your post was very educational and empathetic and I hope he takes it in the spirit it was intended, IMO.

 

And if English is your second language (reason for editing-trying to write in English) you have mastered it very well.

 

Thank you again.

 

Thanks so much! I am glad my post was helpful. I am sorry you've had to deal with active addiction in your husband. So few drug addicts make it. I hope your STBXH finds his way. My bet is that you leaving will help him get there faster, although sadly there are no guarantees. Take care of yourself!

 

BTW English is my native language, but apparently I still can't write in it very well. I keep finding errors!

 

I also hope the OP takes my posts in the spirit I am intending. He is no better and no worse than any one else trying to navigate recovery, IMO. He is trying his best. He is still new. He is in a very hard place. He might be in one of the hardest places- he has laid it out for everyone, he has taken the kicking for everyone, but it keeps on coming.

 

And it will keep on coming, for a while. But he will learn to own what is his, and that will go a long way. It will get better if he keeps going, one day at a time, one step at a time.

 

My husband as well had cheating issues and got into my prescription drugs before. He refused to go to meetings and historically blame-shifted to me.

 

Reading Knitwits post reminded about meetings and what he needs to get from them. I've been working on myself for years now.

 

Reading the post encouraged me to talk to my husband about again attending meetings and he has committed to going back weekly now. So thank you knitwit.

 

I will attend after I am home from work after Christmas.

 

DOT, thanks so much! I am glad my post helped you as well. I have read your posts for a long time and I admire so much the struggle and the fight you've put in to keep your family together!

 

You both might enjoy and find comfort in a good Naranon or Alanon group. Naranon changed my life. It saved my sanity. It brought clarity to me in the murkiest time of my life, when it was otherwise impossible to tell him from down. I had two excellent "home group" meetings and also used online meetings as well.

 

Naranon also taught me about love, it helped me love my man even when he was in the deepest pit and taken over almost entirely by his addiction. It helped me figure out my boundaries and it helped me separate my stuff from his.

[knitwit]

I am not saying this to be hurtful, but only truthful: there are many, many, many men who will treat her better than you have, based on your addiction and infidelity. It will not take a particularly special man to give your wife and kids a more stable, enjoyable, caring life, or to be a better role model for your children thank you've provided in the last 5-7 years. You've set a very low bar. It is dangerous to push away your wife until you can begin to strongly rebuild. Your strongest asset with your wife is your long history with her, but even this is now a tenuous hold at best. You are at very high risk of losing your wife.

 

I have been thinking about this all night. I can no longer edit or I'd remove it entirely- IME the spouses and partners of addicts are tough. They tend to really hang in there. They tend to hang in there LONG after most sane people would wave goodbye. There is even something about it in the Big Book; I can't recall what it said exactly but it was something about the uncanny ability of alcoholics to choose remarkable spouses.

 

In reality, of course, I have no idea how much at risk the OP is of losing his wife.

 

What I should have put instead: for me, once I finally made the decision to leave, I knew that I had a high chance of finding someone with whom I could make a much more stable life. It wasn't easy to find someone who fit my heart, but it was very easy to find men who could offer so much more than my ex as far as stability, quality of life, and partnership.

 

It's something I've seen occur not only with me but also with some other women I know who left. One woman found herself another addict, but most of us found stability and happiness.

 

I guess what I wanted to get across was- in the case of his wife, chances are good that the other grass really IS greener than what he can offer right now, and what he's provided for the last near decade. So it's not wise to push her over there unless he is truly done, and right now, at 9 months sobriety from drugs and 0 months sobriety from his AP, I don't think he can truly know that yet.

 

Anyway, I have to pull my head out of my past and get my thoughts back into my present. Have a wonderful holiday if you're in the US, and I hope the OP comes back and gives us an update.

[beach]

You put your W through hell for 5 years or more.

 

You expect her to forget that?

 

And then you still carry a tourch for the OW after the affair.

 

 

And you expect your W to be reasonable with that?

 

 

 

I don't blame her for having better expectations than what you've offered; you haven't even offered a "half measure".

 

 

YOU have work to do. Get busy doing thorough step work. Also, sponsor others - it will allow you to understand MORE of what truths you aren't willing to admit to yourself now. They will provide you with a gift to grow in understanding more than just your perspective.

[saaben900]

Well.....wow, wow, wow.

I was afraid to come back and read this thread based on what I would find. And yep, part of me wants to say F U ALL, part of me wants to cry and part of me wants to take it all in and really give this a try.

 

I appreciate the deep, deep thought that has gone into this thread from all the posters. I'm heading out to a meeting, but will post back Tonight.

[saaben900]

Well... I didnt get a chance to post last night...so sitting around doing not a whole lot today, what the heck, I will throw some stuff up here.

 

I guess my first reaction to what everyone has posted is "holy crap, i really appreciate the thoughtfulness from these really long thought out posts" I almost feel a bit undeserving of that level of attention.

And knitwit, you have a depth of experience that obviously shows itself...thanks for sharing.

 

All in all, after reading this stuff, going to meetings, being around other addicts in recovery...I'm coming to some conclusions.

 

My first conclusion is I have told the affair partner that I'm done with the contact I made with her, I told her this over a week ago. I realize that I need no distractions in my life to work on my recovery and my marriage, which ever direction my marriage may go in.

IME, being around other recovering addicts, I am exposed to others living an honest life or trying to. My gut has been at odd's with my head while I have been in contact with the AP. I knew it was going to come down to NC again, I guess in my own sickness, I really wanted to see if the AP relationship can die a natural death.

 

I DO realize that the affair was wrong, that jumping into another relationship is not going to change anything for me and that regardless of my marriage working or not, I need time to work recovery in general. And again, that means no distractions.

 

Just to offer some other background on myself, since there seemed to be some here that where piecing together "what I might be"...I will try to condense this.

 

I was 15 when I first got clean, came out of treatment and met my wife in church when I was 17. We dated for 8 years and then married. Bought a house 1 year later, got a dog one year later, had a kid one year later had another kid one year later.

I worked around the clock...always had at least 2 jobs. We both grew up in church and served in church in a very "cult" type of way. We were in church 6 days a week.

I managed to stay clean for over 20 years. Mostly due to church involvement, family and work. And during all these 20 years, I had a mission to prove 12 step programs wrong and that I could do it my way and stay clean.

 

What I didnt see in front of my face, was my obsessive addict behavior would show itself regularly. Not in an outright abusive way, but in a way of never being content and satisfied. Always looking for the next "rush" of newness.

I didnt know what this was called, i just looked at it as a DEVIL thing and I just needed to pray harder for deliverance.

 

My wife, well she grew up as a pastor's kid, and had dreams of being a serving, submissive pastors wife. That is all she knew and seen from her family. Just follow the MAN of the house and as long as he is doing God's will then dont question it.

I personally was never comfortable with that concept, so I would really try to include her in all our decision making.

 

Over the majority of the years being together, she played the supportive wife role. Whatever I tried to do or changes I would embark on, she would just go along with.

Fastforward to about 13 years ago...we realized that the church setting we grew up in, for a lot of reasons, was toxic, cultic, and we had to get out...so we did.

We spent 5 years in a healthy church recovering and the next 8 years realizing that there is a whole lot more to life than 6 days a week of church. But outside of church and church tragedies, we didnt have a whole lot to our relationship...but we didnt know that our relationship was lacking so much, we just figured we would keep plugging along.

 

Then...I got the bright idea I could take a couple pills here and there on the weekends. That was about 6 years ago. So I start recreationally using 6 years ago...I used for the first 4 years, it progresses to daily use and then I engage in an affair.

Year 5 of using I am in a full fledged affair that lasts 14 months.

Then Jan of 2013, I fully disclose the affair...not so much the using. Feb 11, 2013 I stop using and go to my first meeting.

 

Going into my 5 year relapse, my wife would tell me that all she wanted was to be loved and treated like a princess. And all I could see was a lazy unmotivated woman in my life.

Dont start the blame shifting crap...I'm just saying where I was at.

I spent the next 5 years trying to figure out how to keep her happy...and it just turned into the cycle of her saying, yelling, crying how much she wanted love in her life and me feeling like your lazy, unmotivated and show me that you have some drive in life to do something.

 

So I spend 5 years using, hoping she will change and I'm just hanging on by a thread while I also attempt to run a successful computer business.

During the 5 years, we would have small glimpses of hope, but short lived.

 

I dont know if any of that is relevant or whatever...just informational I guess.

 

Like I said earlier...what I know now is...

1. I need zero distractions

2. I will continue NA meetings and commence step work

3. I will be open minded, honest and willing

4. I have a loving and caring God in my life which I NEVER had even though I spent my life in church. I simply ask for HELP from God instead of 30 minutes of praying hard enough to deserve his help.

5. I am not going to impose my desires on my wife at this point, my radar and judgement is so broken, I dont want to manipulate her...as I'm afraid I could be manipulating and not even realize it.

 

This underlying tone of previous posts with "I set a low bar" or "any guy can give her better than I have"

Eh, whatever....I think that is a bit ballzzy as through text and a couple posts, you dont really know me. Yea I'm an addict, but there is also a lifetime of LIFE that I have been through with some harsh lessons and I'm generally a caring guy.

 

Maybe a guy can come along and love her EASILY...which I apparently have had a PROBLEM with...my HOPE is that by doing 1-5 as listed above that I can LEARN to love more EASILY.

 

I do realize that my wife does NOT have to continue life with an addict. And that is something I hope she can realize sooner than later...but in all reality, I hope she can just realize a real answer to that option.

 

I will STILL say though, and I hate to make this a parting thought, but I will and will probably get railed for it. My wife has made some amazing physical changes to herself since this separation. Changes that I have wanted to see for years. It makes me happy for her, jealous of her and also WTF!!! I still DONT get it. Yea, it's a hang up for me to a point. I take pride in taking care of myself, I'm 43 and someone last night thought I was 21. I always felt proud that my wife could be proud to be with me. Part of what I wanted in her is for her to just be proud of herself.

I'm sure this will be turned around on me that I'm the one with the broken brain, but Eh....I've lived it...and I can't deny that I really tried alot of suggestions in trying to get her going...most of it would result in me being performance based and evaluative. Whatever...I know this part will blow peoples worlds up.

 

Me and my wife's level of contact is minimal at this point. I think we will just let it ride a natural course. I have thoughts of asking her on a date, but that is a long ways off...I guess I just miss her. At the same time, I dont want to use her or another woman as a drug just because I feel lonely and/or want to get laid.

 

So I will continue to be around other honest addicts, it's contagious and good for me. It's a simple program for complicated people.

I am just realizing for my first time that I am an addict, that this is a life long disease and it may be harder than I think to find someone that wants to walk that path along side me. All the things I wish I knew years and years ago...now I may literally lose everything over this thing called addiction.

 

Oh...one last thing...if me and my wife do talk about fixing things...I am going to ask her to attend multiple NA and Naranon meetings...and not like 1 every other week, I mean multiple during a week along with a sponsor and working some steps. as much as she needs to be assured I am working a program, I need to be assured she is working a program. And I dont mean this in a dick'ish way...I just look at it as something that will be helpful for her.

 

Ok....have at it.

saaben900

[beach]

It's now not your job to ask her to attend any meetings. You aren't in charge!

 

Do your own work.

 

Require nothing from her - in fact, give her a reprieve from your chaos for a long while.

 

You need to do all your step work. Sponsor others (many) and then see how you feel about your progress.

 

Get busy being honest, willing and open minded.

 

And remember - IF you are thinking of yourself = you need to do all your step work again.

[knitwit]

Hi Saaben,

 

I am glad you came back and filled in more of the blanks.

 

How are things now? Did you do OK over the Thanksgiving holiday (if you're in the US)?

 

I agree that you can't require your wife to go to Naranon, and certainly no one can be forced to work a program. BUT...

 

I will sound full of it since I left, but in the times that my guy was able to stay clean, and we both our program, we were able to have a great relationship. He was able to stay clean for 1-2 years at a time, so we were able to have periods of great stability, closeness, honesty.

 

If you and your wife BOTH work your programs, you can have a really excellent relationship, better than you may have previously. From your updated posts it sounds like you've already gone through some significant adversity together (your church experiences.) So it's my hope that she does join a good Naranon or Alanon group. For her and for you.

 

I am very glad to hear that you are committed to getting your AP out of your mind, no distractions. It was ballzy of me to write all that. You know what they say, take what you need and leave the rest.

 

Are you up for providing an update?