Is it considered inappropriate for a postdoc to date a student in their laboratory?

[Le' Christophe]

I hope no one minds my asking this, since I know professors dating students is considered very inappropriate - not only because of the age difference, but because they have hiring/grading authority too.

 

But I'm wondering if postdoc-student dating or relationships are also frowned upon? Especially since a lot of postdocs aren't that much older than students, and unlike professors don't have any real authority beyond giving student advice and helping them learn research skills.

 

Thanks!

[HokeyReligions]

Only if they're a snob.

[forgetmenot75]

I hope no one minds my asking this, since I know professors dating students is considered very inappropriate - not only because of the age difference, but because they have hiring/grading authority too.

 

But I'm wondering if postdoc-student dating or relationships are also frowned upon? Especially since a lot of postdocs aren't that much older than students, and unlike professors don't have any real authority beyond giving student advice and helping them learn research skills.

 

Thanks!

 

It is innapropriate and considered harassment. you are currently hired by the university. Be super careful with this, you can screw up your career.

[Els]

Welcome back.

 

I've seen lab teammates date, here, and sometimes one of the teammates is of a higher qualification (phd vs masters, etc). Not really sure how postdocs in the USA function, though. Are you supervising the student or assessing them in any way, or are you just teammates?

[Le' Christophe]

Welcome back.

 

I've seen lab teammates date, here, and sometimes one of the teammates is of a higher qualification (phd vs masters, etc). Not really sure how postdocs in the USA function, though. Are you supervising the student or assessing them in any way, or are you just teammates?

 

 

We're only teammates. My only responsibility towards students is to help teach them the skills they need to complete their project, but I don't evaluate them in any way.

[Els]

Hm, if your official responsibility is to 'teach' them (even if you're not grading them), then it's quite iffy. Can't help you more than that, sorry.

[OpheliaSong]

Did you ask the professor of the class yet? That may be a way to get a feel of what the rules are for dating postdocs.

[Le' Christophe]

Did you ask the professor of the class yet? That may be a way to get a feel of what the rules are for dating postdocs.

 

It's not a class, only a research environment (and by 'teaching' I just mean helping out as they're learning lab work, no actual assignments/grading). So the professor is just the head of the laboratory who pays everyone (and doesn't actually have teaching responsibilities either, since it's a research university).

 

Everyone knows me pretty well and we all get along in the work environment, so I don't think they'd see me as someone who dates people for inappropriate reasons or bad intentions. And I don't believe there are official rules against it here (the sections I've looked up only talk about professors and students).

[Els]

Could you ask the student affairs department?

 

(Actually, I just noticed the ironic name, lol. But yes, do ask them)

[nescafe1982]

This would be considered inappropriate at my University. If a postdoc was caught doing this, they would be removed from their post.

 

I have heard about a young postdoc dating a student at the Uni; she was then assigned to work with him. He discreetly met with the department chair and had himself reassigned to keep things on the up-and-up. That is about the ONLY way that a situation like this would fly where I am (R1 Uni in the Northeast).

[ThomasD]

It's possible your institution has a specific policy prohibiting you from dating the student. Even without such a policy it is at least unwise.

 

There is an obvious disparity in your "rank" (you are an employee and in some sense her instructor, and she is a student). The disparity may not be as great but it essentially the same situation as Pres Clinton and Monica Lewinski. In a purely pragmatic sense this makes for an uneasy environment in the workplace - others will perceive special favors and treatment being exchanged between you two whether it's true or not. There may be legal implications that go beyond this.

 

At the very least, wait until she has a different Lab Supervisor, or else completes her degree and you two are professional peers - and even then, workplace romances are often frowned on.

[AMusing]

Your university almost definitely has a policy on it; you just need to ask the right person to find out what the policy is. My undergrad university didn't allow it (not to say a lot of people didn't just ignore the rule entirely). My grad school does as long as there are no explicit evaluations required from the post doc on the student (i.e. teaching a class).

 

Socially speaking, in my department they wouldn't bat an eye if a post doc started dating a grad student, but most people would think it was inappropriate to date an undergrad. I imagine that's similar in most US institutions.

 

That said... regardless of what everyone else would think and regardless of power dynamics, you should think very carefully before getting into a relationship with anyone in your lab. I did it (I was a first-year grad student, he was only a more senior grad student). He did not take the breakup well. Every time I'd look up from my bench I'd see him sneering at me, saying rude things about me, trying to hit on sales reps in front of me (good luck, dude), etc. He'd ask vicious questions when I presented in lab meetings. He'd accuse me of misconduct to our advisor. Granted, he was particularly immature about things, but it made the time until he graduated serious hell for me. I now have a very strict "no dating labmates" policy, and would recommend the same for everyone.

[soccerrprp]

I would ask your department or University. I don't see why it should be, but the university should have a policy or opiniion on this.

[d0nnivain]

If you could even be perceived as taking advantage of your superior position, it would be inappropriate. It's better for everybody to avoid the appearance of impropriety. Remember you, not the student, will suffer the harshest academic reprisals.

[NJtoDC]

I wouldn't recommend it. You are being paid for the assistance you are offering the students. Dating one of them could interfere with performing your job, particularly if any dating drama or hard feelings come of it. Can you wait until she is not part of your team?

[Eternal Sunshine]

Even if it's allowed, your reputation will suffer.

[nescafe1982]

Even if it's allowed, your reputation will suffer.

 

This is also true. I have a (postdoc) colleague that started dating a student after she graduated and left the university. She had begun in one of his classes. He was never officially sanctioned (because what he'd done wasn't against school policy) but he was passed up for internal grants, shunned by many in our department, and he became the subject of gossip for the Deans and other admins. He struggled to find letter writers for his tenure-track job search; no one from our institution wanted to touch him because word spread far and wide that he was a lecher. Which wasn't true-- the woman he dated was age appropriate and had they met outside of the Uni, there would have been no problem. Not fair... but more predictable than the weather.

 

Don't think your school is as toxic as mine? Possibly it's not (my place does have deeper issues with workplace toxicity). But I can guarantee that dating a student will yield negative professional consequences for you, whether officially and immediately, or later on, during your annual review or future job search.

[ThomasD]

... regardless of what everyone else would think and regardless of power dynamics, you should think very carefully before getting into a relationship with anyone in your lab. I did it (I was a first-year grad student, he was only a more senior grad student). He did not take the breakup well. Every time I'd look up from my bench I'd see him sneering at me, saying rude things about me, trying to hit on sales reps in front of me (good luck, dude), etc. He'd ask vicious questions when I presented in lab meetings. He'd accuse me of misconduct to our advisor. Granted, he was particularly immature about things, but it made the time until he graduated serious hell for me. I now have a very strict "no dating labmates" policy, and would recommend the same for everyone.

I've seen similar things happen in corporate workplaces. Nobody thinks about this possibility when they start the relationship.