Unravelling as Wife is set to end

November 14, 2013

I've been lurking for the past week seeing the wisdom and pain of others. My wife of 18 years (27 together) has told me 1st that she no longer finds me attractive which is crushing and then a week later that she is done. I'm probably like most men in that we lack outlets for emotions so I'm joining in here.

We've gone through a tough time 13 years ago where we both said those magical words, I love you but ..... We had no kids so it would have been easy to run away. We went to MC which was gut wrenching and painful. Over time the feelings changed and I believe we fell back in love. She now says we never recovered. Shortly after our daughter was born. We've had other trying times in between but I always thought we were okay. I pushed for a move for a job, which turned out to be an unmitigated disaster. Both the job and the whole move. I know it did major damage. To move on we worked together to find our next destination as a family and moved again. We bought a great new house and community and moved forward. However we weren't able to sell the old house. Not too long after we moved the wheels fell of the economy, remember 2008/9. We both maintained good jobs, although I either commuted or traveled a lot leaving much of the family duties to her. We had been trying for a long time for another child and just as we were giving up, we had a son.

Fast forward five years. We finally sold other house. We spent six years carrying two large mortgages and finally this May we realized a huge loss on our old house, but its gone and we can begin to rebuild/repair our finances. But I did great damage during these years due to being in absolute survival mode financially. My company was always cashflow limited and our own checkbook was a feat of balancing. But I always believed it would and could get better. But in the meantime I know I was depressed and it was hard to enjoy things because I was constantly (24/7) worried about paying the mortgage and making payroll. My life sucked and I know I drew the joy from my wife.

But everything started to get better this year, we exited the second mortgage, business is much improved, my personal confidence is improving but its been a very busy year. I've traveled alot. But I always thought we were doing the very hard survival things together and there was light now at the end of the tunnel. Little did I realize that the light was attached to a freight train.

Ten days ago my wife told me she is done. Three weeks earlier she was asking me to go to counseling and I thought we could work through it on our own. Now I'm desperate for us to seek help and she is not. She has stated her goal is to dissolve our marriage asap and mine is to do anything to preserve it. I am totally in love with her and am a good and loving father. I am completely wrecked by the idea of not being in the same house with my family.

We both began seeing IC last week. I needed an outlet and it has at least helped me to talk to someone. She saw someone who on her first free visit declared me emotionally abusive, recommended an attorney to my wife. She hasn't gone there yet but she has completely switched off to me. I know she was sad but we were there for each other. Although I'm sure she would disagree with the idea of me being there for her. Now she is just cold to me. How can someone change that quickly. I've read up on emotionally abusive relationships and I recognize that I have brought some of those traits to the marriage but not all. I would do anything for the chance to work on both my emotions and our marriage, but she is done.

She says she wants out and the idea of her empowerment has made her feel light and happy.

I am nearly positive there is no OM but she has said she is attracted to the idea of one.

We see a MC today for the first time. I scared to death.

Sorry to be so long. I would love some of this groups wisdom.

November 14, 2013

When a woman says she's done, that's usually the case.

Don't waste your life, your time, with someone who's not committed to you.

You can't make someone love you.

Read my long-ass thread, if you dare, which outlines how I went down a similar road.

Oh and this?

I am nearly positive there is no OM but she has said she is attracted to the idea of one.

combined with this -

She has stated her goal is to dissolve our marriage asap

Yeah, I smell another man. I recognize that sense of 'urgency', haha. Smells like a rat.

November 14, 2013

Be open to the MC experience again. I think you'll have a better idea of where you stand and what's wrong after today.

But, if she's done, let her go, as much as it hurts. Don't be that desperate guy, which will do nothing but push her away further.

Maybe pull a 180, but I'm not the one on here who can further explain it.

November 14, 2013

WorldGoneWrong

I've read most of your thread. You have certainly been there and back. As no one has left yet I don't see how cant don't try to save it to preserve your family. I am not foolish and recognize that the deck is stacked against me but I asked her to go to MC so that at least in my heart I will be able to not lie to our children when we tell them that we are splitting for the best.

I know there is the possibility of either and EA or PA. I think the PA is low as there seems to be very little opportunity and so far absolutely no evidence but I've certainly read those lines here before by others. I appreciate your response because your thread was powerful to me. I was hoping for a different ending for you but it does seem that you found the ability to move on and someone to do it with.

November 14, 2013

GIL

Thanks. I am absolutely open to MC. I recognize that the last time I was immature and really couldn't be there. Plus the stakes were low, no kids at the time.

I'm fighting not being the desperate guy. I've broken a couple of times but am trying to use the 180 and LC while we are in our home. I'm trying not to talk about us outside of MC.

With so much to lose, I don't see how someone can be so certain they want to walk away. While there may be greener grass, she could just find herself in the same frame of mind and without me to blame her unhappiness on.

I've asked that she give some time for MC, she can always choose to leave.

November 14, 2013

Guyinlimbo is right, you need to start doing the 180. If you don't know what it is, here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

This will help you either getting her back interested in a relationship with you or helps you disengage from the marriage.

November 14, 2013

Thanks Chi Town. I've read the list and have been trying to put in practice. One queston, how do you do a 180 and MC at the same time? Is it okay to 180 everywhere but at MC?

November 14, 2013

Flourescent

Thanks for your thoughtful yet painful message. I'm realizing there is nothing I can do. I've told her that I will not be nasty. I can't imagine the next phase and the sadness I'll feel everytime I see her but I was the child of a bad divorce and I promised myself from a young age that I would not be the same. Nothing is more precious than my children and they do need both parents. I just really believe that its better when they are all under one roof.

I'm not concerned with our finances in the divorce. So long as it is split equitably there will be no nastiness from me. At this point we really only have our house. Everything else was consumed trying to tread water before we sold house number two. But that will be a very hard asset to share as I know she would like to stay for the kids etc but if she keeps the house I'd have absolutely nothing to move on with.

I find myself screaming F*** in my car on the way to work. Somehow it helps a bit.

Thanks for the help. I feel like I am sitting here hitting the refresh button hoping for support. The one thing I need to resolve quickly is getting my mind focused so I don't ruin my job and other sides of my life.

But at least I've taken two positive steps in the last week. I've started going to the gym and I've quit smoking. I've also given up sleeping and eating but not by choice.

November 14, 2013

Seek out a dicorce care suipport group as well. The one thing I am telling my self is this will not be easy, it will take time, it will be a rollercoaster ride, you will feel good then bad, bad then good... But you have to keep moving forward. The NC rule will help you, but just know you will break it a few times in the beginning. Its okay. Just learn from each painful lesson... I have been separated 3 months and I am just starting to accept the fact that its over. You hold out hope becasue your heart tells you to but your mind thinks differently. Your enegy will be sapped some days. Cry and scream as much as you need to. But just know the rain will not come down always and the sun will shine again. God bless you my friend.

November 14, 2013

Google "Walk away wife syndrome"....

November 14, 2013

I'm so sorry that you are in so much pain, I can relate, not necessarily in having a similar story, my fiancé and I split after 4 years, much shorter of a relationship then yours, but I can certainly relate to the pain you're feeling. It's torture I know. See what happens at the MC, I agree with a previous poster that you will have a better idea of where her head is at after that. She may just be going to appease you or she may be open to going because she's trying to make sure you and her are exhausting all options with respect to the marriage. If she is adamant about leaving, there isn't anything you can do to stop her. That is the hard part, it literally makes you want to crawl out of your own skin. But I can assure you that feeling will pass. One day you will wake up, rub your eyes and say holy sh*t I'm ready to start living again! In the meantime, please keep us posted on how things are going, stumbling across this site days after my breakup was the best thing that could have happened to, really it is. I have been in a very dark place since and I am here refreshing a million times a day it seems. But for me, it helps so much and the people here are supportive and wonderful. Most of all they are honest, and in a time where your emotions are so whacked out its important to have that honesty. Stay in touch!!

November 14, 2013

Be open to the MC experience again. I think you'll have a better idea of where you stand and what's wrong after today.

But, if she's done, let her go, as much as it hurts. Don't be that desperate guy, which will do nothing but push her away further.

Maybe pull a 180, but I'm not the one on here who can further explain it.

Since telling my H I have besn thinking of divorce, he begged initially. He was showing me things I needed to see. Then he started this 180 thing and I just want to leave him even more. Its doing the exact opposite of what he wants.

November 14, 2013

Since telling my H I have besn thinking of divorce, he begged initially. He was showing me things I needed to see. Then he started this 180 thing and I just want to leave him even more. Its doing the exact opposite of what he wants.

The purpose of the 180 is to make the other spouse realize what they are missing. If he doesn't want to put in the work anymore and neither do you, then both doing the 180 will accomplish that.

The switch for him to the 180 was probably him thinking "I just don't want to work on this relationship anymore."

November 14, 2013

"Homer" is sort of a compromise on technique, and you can adjust it. The main idea is to support your wife's decision, enthusiatically, because you love her and want her to be happy (counterintuitive). However - the technique you are applying is a demand that she separate herself from the "crush," by moving desk and changing lunch hour. According to Dr. Harley, and common sense, that isn't going to work - she is just placating you. (see Homer and Dr. Harley A & B under "Critical Readings for Separation and Divorce" - link in my signature line). I would also go to Dr. Harley's Marriage Builder's website - he has some good articles on why people are unfaithful.

She is missing something in the marriage - that's why she's dreaming and fantasying. I would not rule out that there is more to the story than you think.

But besides changing your attitude, and avoiding begging and pleading - you need (I think), to learn what she is yearning for that you are not addressing. As, in all likelihood - she will keep searching, and perhaps find someone that fulfills this need. And at that point - she will be a typical WW. And there is no coming back from that one.

I will give you an idea.

Materials needed (get at bed and bath, or Target, get one girl to help you).

Bath Salts (Blue color)

Fancy Bath Oil

Fancy Soap

Champaign

2 Champaign Flutes/glasses

A box of Godiva Chocolate

Candles

Make her a nice bubble bath, let her get in there by herself - this is not a sex thing, when you knock on the door with 2 glasses of champagne - sit on the floor fully clothed. Tell her first, you have organized this luxuious bath because you want to know her again give her a Gadiva chocolate, and tell her you want to know what is missing in her life.... what is her deepest desire. Pour a a refill, and let the champagne do the talking. Warm up the water. Pour some nice special bath oil in there. Ask more similar questions. Listen very carefully to everything she says. Do not conversate - just listen. Then thank her - and say you are going to really think about those things that are missing in her life - go back to normal, then.

She probably will try to come to u for sex - but you have to deny it, very

gently and kindly. You have to say, "honey, I need my space to process what I have leaned from you tonight. I want things to work out, that is why I asked you those questions, but it is still going to take some for me.". (now the shoe is on the other foot and you've resisted her - that effectively raises your value in her eyes, and causes her to question herself. Keep everything status quo.

Then start being very nice and acting very happy (this is Homer style). The bath idea is Yas style - "get information - and be alluring at the same time, then don't put out (spank the monkey ahead of time).

November 15, 2013

^^ That bubblebath "event" is about the most canned, unappealing, stereotypical (shoving "Godiva" chocolates and "fancy bath oil" at her in some ploy to seem sensitive) thing I can think of.

November 15, 2013

^^ That bubblebath "event" is about the most canned, unappealing, stereotypical (shoving "Godiva" chocolates and "fancy bath oil" at her in some ploy to seem sensitive) thing I can think of.

You're right. I think your suggestion is much better.

November 15, 2013

^^ That bubblebath "event" is about the most canned, unappealing, stereotypical (shoving "Godiva" chocolates and "fancy bath oil" at her in some ploy to seem sensitive) thing I can think of.

I gotta agree with this. If my husband did this it would not seem genuine. Even if it was. Even if he thought of it on his own and really really wanted to do the right thing, it would not feel that way to me.

November 15, 2013

She is missing something in the marriage - that's why she's dreaming and fantasying.

I would only augment (contradict?) this slightly and say,

she is missing something within herself.

The burden can't always be on the marriage itself.

November 15, 2013

WGW - I actually believe this is very true in my case. There are things she is not getting out of the marriage but many of them are within her control. I think she is to some extent using our marriage as a cover for things she has not been able to fulfill for herself.

I'm hopeful (because I have to be right now) that through IC and MC she may be able to see that there are things that she can do for herself within our marriage.

We did have our first visit with a MC yesterday. She has at least agreed to go 4 more times. Nothing like a long term commitment.

I appreciate all the kindness here. Thanks.

November 30, 2013

So its been a couple of weeks. We have had three MC sessions and I have seen my IC about five times. There is so much I am learning from IC and that with time could change. I just don't think she is willing to give it time. Even in MC she has repeatedly said that she doesn't want to fix it. It feels like she is just there waiting for the MC to confirm that this is a bad marriage and we should begin divorce counseling.

We are sort of faking it for the holidays. My 11yo daughter has heard a couple of our discussions and I have found her crying in bed. Its so hard to keep this up. All I can do is hug her and tell her things will be okay and that she is very loved. But it is hard sleeping in the same bed, waking up throughout the night, wanting to touch your partner only to know that your touch will make her recoil. I'm sure our daughter sees that we are going through motions and that my wife is expressing no love towards me.

We survived thanksgiving where her brother and his family joined us for the day and night. As soon as it got past the kids bed time I felt like a third wheel and that they simply wanted to talk without me. While tending the turkey he told me he was sorry and knows it sucks as he has been there twice. The last thing I want is his sympathy as he has never done the very basic things to try to save either of his relationships and I feel as if he and her family are simply cheering her on hoping that once she is alone all her happiness will return.

I'm facing another month until we come out and begin mediation for divorce. I don't think I can fake it another day. Come Christmas her parents, brother, his ex and their 3 year old will again join us. I have no desire to put on a happy face with them and simply make it a great Christmas for the children. I so want our kids to have a great Christmas but I just don't know if I can keep all this bottled up.

I feel like I simply need to resign and begin moving on. Come clean with our daughter and see that she has an outlet to talk about her feelings. As a 12 yo smart girl I know she is fearing the worst and unable to talk about it. I feel if we at least separate in home and begin the work of mediation now I can begin to move on. Faking it keeps my hopes up where there seems to be no hope.

Its so hard to accept that the person you love will not give you another chance. Will not try to open their heart and try to grow again with you. I know that I have not been what I should have been as her husband. I know that given the time, I can learn how to be a better husband and show her a new marriage. She simply doesn't want it.

Its been an interesting year. We have had three friends who have all dealt with infidelity in their marriages. Two of them are on their way out and one couple has managed to stop the damage and is working on mending their relationship. During one of our MC sessions, she actually said she was jealous of them and wished I had had an affair so it would be easier to leave me. That seems so messed up to me.

Should I just give up and resign myself to her reality?

The idea of walking around for another month with my heart so vulnerable seems too hard. I feel like I need to begin protecting myself and accepting my fate.

This is such a crappy place.

Thanks for all the support here.

December 1, 2013

If her heart and energy isn't in this to better the M - there's no way it's going to get better. She may be doing counseling with the wrong intentions.

I'd sit her down and ask her calmly what her intent is. Is it to improve the M or to get out of the M by softening things for you.

I'd start checking her phone, computer history etc - to be certain she's not being distracted/tempted by someone outside your M.

If you choose to end it now - by understanding she's not REALLY into saving it - then there's no reason to wait.

Does she work?

December 1, 2013

^^ That bubblebath "event" is about the most canned, unappealing, stereotypical (shoving "Godiva" chocolates and "fancy bath oil" at her in some ploy to seem sensitive) thing I can think of.

Hey, Lollipopspot, it may be time to start getting sensitive for real.

This suggestion was NOT "some ploy to seem sensitive." You might find bubble baths, oils, and Godiva chocolate "canned" Sir, but if you added some candied cherries and the whirlpool to this mix, I know of at least one woman who might just about do for you anything you wish. I propose that most women would love this treatment unless they hate you.

Obviously, you GUYS didn't get the method behind the madness in my post. Don't ever underestimate Yas. The "Bath Operation" was a CSI Covert Mission designed to GATHER intel, and to reverse the pursuit situation. An opportunity to get her a little tipsy, and let her run her mouth (whether the intel happens to be issues within her or outside of her WGW). And, from what I recall, she's receptive to sexy stuff. Part two of the interrogation was to release her (walk away, no sex, let her see what she's missing, let her yearn for you). A simple "I'm glad we had this little chat," the go turn on the tube. Warm - Cold. Good Cop - Bad Cop. Back to 180. Turn down any pursuit for sex. No relationship talk except in MC. Period.

The bottom, this idea provides an opportunity for her to open her heart to you, become vulnerable. Then you get cool, and boom, shoe is on other foot. You need to have a better power balance in this situation. That was the goal of the operation. Then you make nice in MC, and attend to her concerns in that environment.

Sorry if the idea offends anyone. Got any better ideas? Other than wait around till she becomes the WAW? Yas

Edited December 1, 2013 by Yasuandio

December 1, 2013

I would only augment (contradict?) this slightly and say,
she is missing something within herself.
The burden can't always be on the marriage itself.

I do not disagree with you WGW. The question is, does he want to give up and divorce, OR try to identify this "something" and give her the support and IC help she needs to fill the gap within herself? We all have them, because we are all human. Yas

December 1, 2013

I don't want to give up but she is unwilling to try to fix it. Its surprising how quickly she has shut down to me but I feel as if I have to accept her reality. I feel like I have to work toward something and if we can't work toward fixing it I think I need to end my limbo. We talked for a while yesterday and I asked for another chance just to see if we could keep it together for the kids and make time to work on our relationship. She shut the door firmly. So I told her that I can't keep pretending and that we should separate bedrooms as its painful for me to sleep in the same bed with her knowing she doesn't want me. She wants to keep up the act until after Christmas for the kids. I think that that will be another month of hell topped with her whole family staying with us for a week at Christmas. She also wants to figure out how to keep our house. The challenge is that it is our only asset and though she works she doesn't have enough income to assume the mortgage let alone pay me for my equity. I have said that I think we need to move forward to sell the house and focus on both of us having nice but equal places for the kids. Its funny in a way that she wants to end our relationship but when it comes to doing the math for splitting up she thinks I am unreasonable and that I should support her in the house for the sake of the kids. But that leaves me in a crappy rental without much means to make it a nice home for the kids.

We will have one more session as scheduled with the MC who will likely want to shift to divorce counseling. I have no interest in us both having ICs and then meeting with a divorce counselor. I've suggested we find and begin meeting with a mediator to work toward joint dissolution. I can't simply let my heart be broken every day.

December 1, 2013

I see she is done.

Place some boundaries NOW that help YOU!

Separate bedrooms is a good move!

Put the house up for sale.

Put your foot down - no way her family visits! No way!

There are consequences for HER choices to end the marriage - and these changes will show her what she has chosen!

File the d papers! Make it real NOW - not next month!

It may force her to think long and hard about what she's done - what she's chosen. Tell everyone this is what your W wants, not your choice!

Put this decision ALL on HER! She should be willing to own it - and start acting like it - after all, any pretending is just living a lie.

I'd be checking to see if she's communicating with someone else. I'd bet money she's interested in someone else!

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