Author Leaf Posted December 21, 2004 Author Posted December 21, 2004 Owl, Thanks for writing all of that. I dont want you to think I am minimizing anyones pain, I am not. This is why I wanted to talk about this, to see from ya'lls perspective what is actually happening.
izzybelle Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 owl, i understand why you forgive, and i know that, like i said above (i think) i'd forgive my exMM for lying to me. i think one of the diffs for me, and maybe other OWs, is that being on the other side gives you a different view (and i know your's is diff too). and i'm not saying that in all cases it's true. but when you sit there and hear someone telling you over and over again, how much they love you, how much they really want to be with you, how much they wish they could leave..... regardless of whether or not they are lies...once you've been an OW and heard these things and know that they're going home and telling the wife that "she means nothing" "it was a mistake".... regardless of which set of lies has more truth just knowing what he may be telling the OW would make it hard for me to trust. to know that NC doesn't always mean NC to know that there's a possibility that it's really not over. mine is but i don't know if i'm making much sense here. reading here what you guys go through and knowing what happens on the other side of the door...would just make me wonder. please i know there are many who are sincere in rebuilding, but we know what's happened with our own MMs.
Author Leaf Posted December 21, 2004 Author Posted December 21, 2004 Your post makes perfect sense to me Izz.
Owl Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 I see what you're saying Izzy. And that's a big part of your pain...you hear it often enough, you have to believe its true. And if you want my opinon... I think that in a way, the MM/MW does love both. See, they totally compartmentalize their lives...they basically lead two totally unrelated lives while they're having the affair. When they're with the OM/OW, you ARE what they think of. They DO love you, the DO want to be with you. You're an escape...and a shelter...and a comfort...and someone who loves them right back. Then they go home. And make no mistake...you are thought of a LOT when they're home with us. How do you think we catch on?!?! We see the distance. We feel it. It hurts like hell. So, we try to win them back, not even knowing that we're competing with you. We show them how much we love them, how much we care. And they DO respond to it, in varying degrees. They do think..."damn...this is the guy I love...why in the world do I do this to them". So, they try to forget about you when they're with us...not always successfully, but then again, we're never totally out of their minds when they're with you either. And they ping-pong back and forth in this cycle until something breaks it...usually the BS catching on. Then, they've got choices to make. I don't discount your love for your MM...I don't even discount the love that the OM in our case had for my wife. In our case at least, it was still wrong. And if he showed up on my doorstep today, I'd be carted off in handcuffs. And I'm a NICE guy!!! LOL
Joyce Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 Izzy, Your post makes sense to me too. Sorry to jump in here but every situation is different. I honestly believe that there are MW/MM OW/OM that do not have intentions of getting involved in an affair and when they do they mean the things they say to the other person. I know I meant everything I said to my OM. I really did love him. I would have left if I my H kids were mine and not my step kids. I also believe that there are a lot of MW/MM OW/OM that do it just for the H*ll of having their cake and eating it too. They tell the other person what they knew they want to hear to get what they want. It seems as though eventually everyone involved plus people that never asked or wanted to be involved gets hurt. Affairs really suck and mess up lives. I don't think anyone will really understand why it happens and continues to happen.
izzybelle Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 owl, you're right it's part of the pain, and it will make it very hard to trust again. only partly because i've (probably ) been lied to, but because i know he was (probably) lying to her about lying to me about lying to her....... so where does it end and how and when do you know what to believe? i really don't believe in the once a cheater always a cheater statements, although i know it may sound that way at times, but from what i've seen, many are repeat offenders with the same spouse. i guess i'd always be afraid that whatever it was that had created the "void" in the first place would poke it's nasty little head up again at the first sign of trouble. i know that's me and i need to get over it!!! hopefully in time we'll all heal.
Joyce Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 Leaf, I have not followed your story. So maybe you have told people this before. What do you truly feel your MM intentions were? I was just wondering because I have not spent very much time understanding the OW/OM side. I have read a lot about the betrayed spouse and I would like to understand more of the OW/OM. I know every situation is different. I am just curious and I would like to understand every side of an affair and the wounds it leaves for everyone. I know my OM hurt me but after it ended I never put much thought into what I did to him. I focus on my family and my H. I would never want a life with him again but now I am feeling kind of bad about what he went through.. (gulp).
Owl Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 Izzy- I do think that there are cases where the "once a cheater always a cheater" does apply. There are people out there who just don't value a relationship the same way, or never learned how to HAVE a relationship. Those people are often doomed to continually make the same kind of mistake over and over until they learn. But, often it can be a single, one time mistake. I'm positive that my wife's case was a one time mistake. Otherwise, she wouldn't have gotten any chances from me. Joyce- I don't know that you had any "responsibility" to your OM to feel bad about what happened. I know my wife felt for a couple of months afterward like she had some kind of responsibility to hers over how he was feeling, and/or how he dealt with what happened. BUT...it wasn't until she could get past that and ACTUALLY hold to her NC that I could really start to forgive her and start to let it go. Because ANY contact with him was a deadly threat to my marriage. You've mentioned in other posts that he quickly got himself another GF...sounds to me like his involvement with you wasn't as in-depth as you might have believed.
Joyce Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 Joyce- I don't know that you had any "responsibility" to your OM to feel bad about what happened. I know my wife felt for a couple of months afterward like she had some kind of responsibility to hers over how he was feeling, and/or how he dealt with what happened. BUT...it wasn't until she could get past that and ACTUALLY hold to her NC that I could really start to forgive her and start to let it go. Because ANY contact with him was a deadly threat to my marriage. You've mentioned in other posts that he quickly got himself another GF...sounds to me like his involvement with you wasn't as in-depth as you might have believed. Owl- You are correct my relationship was not what I thought it was. I do feel guilty because he did seem to go through a lot to be with me. My OM was with me for over a year and I never left my H to be with him. I can now understand why he left to be with someone else. He deserved a normal relationship and I am thankful that he did because my H is such a good man. I know I am a pretty bad person because it took having an affair to realize what I had.. I know I deserve to feel the way I do. I never could think about it after we split because I needed to find my closure. Now that I have figured out my life and what's important I can allow myself to try to understand OW/OM. I really have moved on. I am just curious about OM/OW feelings and thoughts.
Joyce Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 More than anything I want to understand the OW/OM posts more. I want to be more open minded and try to understand why they stay with someone who puts them second. I want to understand what they think their MM/MW intentions are.
Owl Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 I can understand that reasoning Joyce. I'm really here for pretty much the same reasaon...and to occasionally provide the perspective of the BS when possible too. Sadly, some people tend to take that as an attack, when its really not meant to be. And I'm NOT referring to any of you three that have carried on this conversation...this has been a very polite, civil discussion. And like I've tried to make clear in my previous posts...I really don't have any hard feelings for ANYONE on LS...no one wins in an affair. The only thing I've tried to do here is to help others understand what they're doing, how it impacts EVERYONE involved, and maybe help them think through their own situation to actually do something to make things better for all the people involved in their situation.
izzybelle Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 joyce, my story is posted elsewhere in this site probably numerous times but i can tell you briefly (maybe, brevity is not one of my strengths) what i expected from my MM and what i thought his intentions were. and before someone jumps on this and tells me he was lying to me just to play with my emotions, i already am aware that it's a possibility, but one i choose not to believe. my MM thought his marriage was over. after years and years of being told it was and that his wife was planning to leave him when their youngest left home he had given up. situations changed and his plans were put off for a year and initially, after the discovery, my impression was that she wanted him to just "hang in there" for the family for one more year until his plans were set, in fact those were the words he used at one point in time. he told me things like he wanted to be with me forever, that i was the most important person in his life, that he wanted to be with me, not his W. and that he was done trying to save his marriage. and i still struggle some days wondering if she still intends to kick him out the door next summer, but i know i can't wait. my heart still wants to at times but my head tells me that there's no guarantee. he had cheated before, so this was, in a way, his second chance and i also struggle with wondering why, except for her son, why she'd risk it again. i went from hearing about us and our future, to "we'll make it through this" to "i need to get through this" to "i need to try to make my marriage work" all within the space of about a month. but in my heart, it felt more like a heartbeat than a month. i think you've handled all of this admirably, and i know you feel down on yourself at times. i think all of us who post here do, or we'd be happy and not looking for support. and i can't say, in your case, or in others whether the MM/MW have a "responsibility" for how their OW/OM feels as a result of all of this, but i can say in my case, i think he did. my responsibility was that i was involved with someone who was not as free to give his heart as he had claimed. and i fell in love with him. i tried not to, knowing the circumstances, but i did, right or wrong, and i fell hard. in some ways it maybe would have been easier if he didn't feel badly that i was hurt because then i just could have been angry. but i do truly believe that he cared and didn't intend to hurt me in the end. not that he intended to hurt his wife, i think he honestly believed by her words and actions that she no longer cared what he did. and i know i've read things similar to that on the infidelity threads, that the distancing resulted in a lack of feeling that the other really cared. i think many fall in love with their spouses because they are warm, caring, loving people. if that person makes a mistake and truly falls in love with another, i can't see that they'd expect them not to take some responsibility for how the OP ended up feeling. i've been through numerous breakups and two bad marriages and i can, by far, say that this was the most awful intense pain i've felt. to the point where at the onset, i felt that my life was completely out of control. luckily time marches on and time will eventually heal those wounds. and i look forward to the time when the memories are fond ones and not just ones laced with pain. i can't hate him, even after 6 mos. i hate what's happened, and i hate the situation, but i can't hate him.
Joyce Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 I have found that people can get very defensive when they read something they don't want to hear. I have to admit that I have taken things personal before with comments that were not directed to me or on one of my posts. I think leaf was correct in saying that we can all learn from each other. I know you mean well Owl. Don't let other people get you down. Everyone has a right to post their thoughts and experiences. You are only trying to prevent people from getting hurt anymore than they already have. ps leaf- I am sorry for stealing your thread.
Joyce Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 Leaf, I am not hear to judge. I understand that people make mistakes. Thank you for sharing. I don't doubt the pain you feel. I am sorry you have endured so much of it. You deserve so much better. I know it will take you time to heal your broken heart. Hang in there. Knowing the way you feel now if your MM showed up at your door and said he left his wife. Would you take him back? I was just wondering because you wondered why the spouse takes them back
izzybelle Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 joyce, did you mean me for what i just posted? i didn't want to respond in leaf's place if i was wrong! izzy
Joyce Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 I'm sorry I meant you izzy. I got leaf and you confused.
Joyce Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 Ok I am sorry I really am confused. Anyone that would like to share it's fine because every situation is different and I want to understand more of the OW/OM side. I really am sorry for taking over the thread leaf. So izzy.. would you take back your OM if he came to you?
izzybelle Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 I'm sorry I meant you izzy. I got leaf and you confused. easily done...we look alike...here that is!!! if he showed up at my door i honestly don't know what i'd do except perhaps ask to see some legal documentation that it's really over. short of that, how can i believe him if he says it's over? he told me that before and then changed his mind..... at this point, even if his wife kicks him out (which she tried to do before) i'm not sure i could be sure that he wouldn't go back. my trust, like many BS, has been broken. i know the situations are different because he had taken vows with her not me. but at the same time, he made me promises. he was out of line in doing that, and he's admitted it, but that doesn't change the fact that i believed him. and there are times when all of this makes me feel like a terrible person, too. not for the obvious reasons. i see many posts from BS here about the pain they've been through and my heart goes out to them. and to you too. what makes me feel like a terrible person is that while i feel badly for OWL and others from here, i don't feel badly for my MM's W. perhaps if i knew her side of the story i would. she's emailed me twice (from his account) and there was a phone call that i suspect was her. and if it was....everything he's said about her ability to be nasty is true. and i feel sorry for him. but...it's his choice and he's made it and now they have to deal with it.
Joyce Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 Izzy, I bet your anger for your MM wife is probably pretty common. After all he chose her and it's easy to have resentment towards someone that your MM put before you. You really deserve someone better. You deserve to be number one. One of these days you will look back and wonder why you wasted your time on him.
izzybelle Posted December 21, 2004 Posted December 21, 2004 You really deserve someone better. You deserve to be number one. One of these days you will look back and wonder why you wasted your time on him. finally after 6 mos. i'm beginning to feel that way. thanks... i think we all deserve to be number one. unfortunately for some of us, we convince ourselves that we're number one when really we're number 2 - pun intended!
Author Leaf Posted December 22, 2004 Author Posted December 22, 2004 No worries Joyce. I think the intentions of my xMM were that he wanted a relationship with me...and her. I honestly believe that he wants both. He cant have that tho. If he wants me, we would have to start over. He couldnt be with her. I deserve to have someone 100%, as do we all.
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