Should I date my ex?

[shankers]

I (M22) recently just broke up with my girlfriend (F23). The reason for this is her extreme lack of trust in my relationship. Every time I go out or every time she is around me she questions everything. I did however cheat on her 9 months back. I danced with another girl at some random bar and drunkenly called my gf and yelled at her. I did it however because she wanted to talk civilly with her ex boyfriend. I didn't want her to talk with him because he already had caused enough damage in the relationship.The motives behind it were ridiculous. All that is important is that its a you hurt me I hurt you situation. I know this was all wrong. I spent the next 9 months trying to rebuild trust but to no avail. I even dissapeared of the college campus and spent more time with her. This didn't help as it caused more drama and I hated spending time with her. It became a completely codependent relationship. She didnt know how to separate herself and become her OWN person. She cant seem to let go of the past and move on with the relationship because she is to focused upon getting hurt. Anyway 2 weeks ago i FINALLY had enough and gave her a choice (for the 80th time). You start trusting me one hundred percent (stop the interrogations, stop the pointless drama, stop the nonsense, stop the typical insecure actions)or im out.

 

This is not the first time i have told her to shape up or ship out. She broke the rule again and lashed out out me again 3 days ago. She said the reason why she did it was because of the fact that we had talked about her insecurities the day before. I am not in love with her but I do love her (and I know that there is a potential fall in love with her). Im no prince charming but i tried to be the best possible guy before and after the event of cheating. Another thing i should add is that people warned her of dating me constantly. This seeped into the relationship and cause distrust as well. They warned her and she knew I had a checkered past before she dated me. I told her everything I did from the start and I even told her people don't really like me. I went through my ******* phase because my mother had passed away. It was my way of acting out. She has had trust issues the entire relationship (since before i cheated) and I have never known her to be a secure or confident person. I thought she was when we were just friends and started dating. She is a great girl. She takes care of me and everything really well. I can depend on her to be there for me. However the insecurities, immaturity, trust issues, inability to let the past go, (we argued about really pointless things like forgetting the hold the door open) have broken me down. Im tired of the drama.

 

 

The point is should I give her a second chance? Do I want someone in my life that is a bit immature and who is not secure? She claims that she is trying to trust me. I went out with my female friends last night and she didn't display her usual trust issues. She saw me leave my friends house with them. However I fear the only reason she did not react the way she did before is because she is finally scared of loosing me. This happens a lot. She has some revelation and says she can trust me but 4 or 5 days later bam. Same old same old. I just feel like I should have to give my girlfriend an ultimatum rulled by fear. But what else could I do? Any advice?

Edited November 10, 2013 by shankers

[Downtown]

Do I want someone in my life that is a bit immature and who is not secure?

No, Shankers, not if you've described her behavior accurately. As PaperCut explained to you in September (9/23), you are describing a woman who exhibits strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Specifically, the behaviors you describe -- verbal abuse, temper tantrums, irrational anger, irrational jealousy, strong need for drama, very controlling, inability to trust, emotional immaturity, and lack of impulse control -- are classic traits of BPD, which my exW has.

 

I therefore suggest that you read about BPD warning signs to see if most of those red flags sound very familiar. Learning to spot the red flags is important because you are at risk of leaving this needy woman only to run right into the arms of another one just like her.

 

Of course, you cannot determine whether your Ex's BPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis. You nonetheless are capable of spotting the red flags for BPD. There is nothing subtle about strong occurrences of traits such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, and temper tantrums.

 

I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your Ex exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she has most BPD traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any red flags that exist if you take time to learn the warning signs.

I really believe that my girlfriend is unfortunately a ten year old in a 23year old woman's body.

Good guess. But you're off by about six years. If she has strong BPD traits, she has the intelligence, education, cunning, and body strength of a full grown woman. Her emotional development, however, is frozen at the level of a four year old. As Papercut explained last September (9/23), BPDers "never grew up maturely."

The result, if she is a BPDer, is that she never learned the more mature ego defenses that are routinely used by mature adults. Instead, she is fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses used by young children. These include denial, projection, black-white thinking, magical thinking, and temper tantrums.

When she gets mad and I need my space she cant give it to me..at all. She tends to fling herself in front of the door (kind of barricades it) if I need to leave the room to vent. Pretty much prevents me from leaving. [Your 9/23 post]

As I said, a BPDer never had the opportunity in early childhood to learn more mature ego defenses. Nor did she learn how to control her own emotions. She never learned, e.g., how to do self-soothing or how to prevent her mind from doing obsessive looping by distracting it. The result is that, when a BPDer gets upset about an issue, she will remain distraught (typically for 4 or 5 hours) unless the issue is resolved RIGHT NOW. She therefore has a powerful need to "resolve" arguments NOW, AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

 

My BPDer exW, for example, was exactly like that. She refused to put our differences aside and delay the discussion. Instead, she would chase me room to room, trying to barricade me at the door of any room that had only one door. Being laid back like you, I would refuse to participate in all the drama. I would go to bed and be asleep within 15 minutes. In contrast, my exW would be up for another 4 or 5 hours due to her inability to calm herself down.

Every time she is late she NEVER owns up. [Your 9/23 post]

If she has strong BPD traits, that behavior is to be expected. BPDers are notorious for refusing to admit mistakes or take responsibility for their own actions. BPDers are filled with so much self loathing and shame that the last thing they want to find is one more item to add to the long list of things they hate about themselves.

She plays the victim mentality card. [9/23 post]

BPDers have a very fragile, unstable sense of who they are because they never developed an integrated self image. To the extent that a BPDer has a self image at all, it is the false self image of being "The Victim" -- always "The Victim."

 

This is why a BPDer will remain in a relationship with you only as long as you play one of two roles, both of which "validate" that false self image. One role is that of "The Savior," which implies she is "The Victim" because you are trying to save her from something. The other role is "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her every misfortune (again, validating her as the victim).

She didnt know how to separate herself and become her OWN person.

As I tried to explain above, your Ex doesn't know who she is if she has strong BPD traits. This is why a BPDer HATES to be alone. She has a powerful need to be around a partner having a strong personality that will serve to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction.

 

Yet, as soon as you provide exactly THAT, she will feel like you are trying to control and dominate her. Moreover, she will feel engulfed and suffocated by your strong personality, especially during intimacy and great weekends spent together. It is a scary feeling because she may even feel that she is evaporating into thin air.

 

The result, of course, is that BPDers have extremely low personal boundaries -- or nearly no boundaries at all. This, by the way, is why you will see a BPDer behaving very differently around different types of people. She does that as a way of fitting in and being accepted and being loved.

She cant seem to let go of the past and move on with the relationship because she is to focused upon getting hurt.

In treatment, one of the first skills that is taught to BPDers is how to be "mindful," i.e., how to stay in the present moment instead of escaping into the past or future. To obtain frequent validation of their "victim" status, BPDers focus heavily on the past.

 

My exW, for example, kept a mental list of every bad thing I ever did to her (real or imagined). And, during even the most trivial arguments, she would pull out that entire list (going back many years to the beginning of our R/S). Of course, this is one reason that it is impossible to have a rational discussion with a BPDer about any sensitive issue. She will do "kitchen sinking," i.e., will bring up every past problem, including the kitchen sink, in defense of her position.

 

BPDers also tend to focus heavily on the future. The main reason is that they have a great fear of abandonment and engulfment. These two fears are so strong that they distort a BPDer's perception of your motivations and intentions in the present.

I dont think she manipulates...Neither does she have qualities that cause self injury. [9/24 post]

Although BPDers tend to be very controlling (due to their abandonment fear), most are not any good at manipulation due to their lack of impulse control. To be successful, manipulation requires careful planning and flawless execution of those plans. Most BPDers are much too reactive (to whatever is happening at the moment) and too impulsive to be good at manipulation.

Her world is centered around drama. [10/7 post]

Generally, BPDers are not interested in finding solutions or compromises but, rather, only want to create more drama. One reason is that the drama is needed to create frequent validation of their false self image of always being "The Victim." Another reason is that, because BPDers have a strong feeling of emptiness inside, they easily become bored and thus need drama to distract their minds from the unhappiness inside.

 

As to your Ex's absence of self injury, that does not rule out her having strong BPD traits. Granted, one of the nine traits is self injury. That behavior, however, generally is limited to the low functioning BPDers. The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning people who do not deliberately injure themselves.

This is like the 60th time we have broken up and all and its just ridiculous. [Today in your "Needy People" thread.]

One of the hallmarks of a BPDer relationship is a push-you-away and pull-you-back cycle that results in many breakups before the couple finally separates for good. A recent poll at BPDfamily found that a third of these relationships experienced at least six breakup/reconcile cycles before finally separating. And a fourth of these relationships had 10 or more breakup/reconcile cycles before the final breakup.

What should I do as I am very confused?

As I noted above, any man who has been in such an abusive relationship for a full year is at risk of leaving that abusive partner only to run into the arms of another just like her. I therefore suggest you read more about BPD traits to see if most of them sound very familiar. An easy place to start reading is my description of those red flags in my several posts at Crazy I think but I love her anyway. If that description rings some bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, Shankers. Edited November 10, 2013 by Downtown

[j.gman]

Downtown gave you quite a comprehensive response.

You should follow his advice.