Mouthy Kids!!!

[Moose]

Mom: "Go fix your plate and eat your supper"

Son: "I'm not hungry right now"

Mom: "This isn't a restaraunt you know"

Son: "I said, "I'm not hungry right now"

Mom: "It's dinner time, go fix your plate"

Son: "So I'm forced to eat..........

Dad cuts him off, "YOU WERE TOLD TO GO EAT!!!!"

 

First mistake? Son being mouthy.

Second mistake? Mom let's son mouth her.

Third mistake? Dad stepped in while Mom was handling the situation her way.

Fourth mistake? Dad raised his voice, VERY loudly.

 

So, that was the scene at our supper table tonight.....lovely, huh?

 

Mrs. Moose and I got into it over it. I was pissed because she let Son mouth her and was taking her time to discipline him......so I stepped in. She was pissed because I raised my voice.....something I promised to work on because of my health......so I went my way, and she went her way.

 

10 minutes later, we're explaining to the other why we acted the way we did.

15 minutes later, we're coming up with ways to fix the initial problem

20 minutes later, we're apologizing to each other.

25 minutes later, we're huggin' and kissin'.

30 minutes later, she's out the door for her weekly accountabilty meeting.

35 minutes later, I'm posting on LS......

 

I have to rush those lazy HVAC guys and get my garage, or, "VAC", (Short for Family Avoidance Center), heated so I can work on the cars during the winter.

 

Hey.....thanks for listening.....BTW, any pointers? I mean for ways to tame the Son's mouth....and his siblings?

[johan]

My girlfriend's daughter gets to be really mouthy. I used to get irritated (to be honest I still do). I used to either nail her on it, or I would decide not to, and I'd just seethe.

 

My girlfriend tolerates it, because she understands how hard it is to be a teenager. They don't know how to deal with things in an adult way, so who knows what kind of crap is going to come out. She seems to think letting her daughter pop off a little bit at home doesn't really hurt anything. And maybe dealing with her feelings at home helps her in her life. The fact is, her daughter is pretty well adjusted, doesn't get into trouble, has total respect from all her friends, and she doesn't mouth off to me. So maybe that strategy has some merit.

 

But she also has a line that can't be crossed. When I realized that about her, I stopped worrying about it so much. I knew she'd handle it. It's their relationship to manage, and I'm better off letting them figure it out. I'm still just a guest.

[moimeme]

Why make someone eat if he's not hungry? That way lies obesity. If he's not hungry, say 'fine, we'll put it in the fridge but you'll have to heat it up for yourself later'. This allows him to not shove food down himself when he doesn't need it plus fend for himself later, which every kid should be taught.

 

I never could stand people who force their kids to do stuff 'just because'. There's nothing logical or helpful about making people eat just in order to obey orders.

 

[Moose]

Leave it to Moi to try and make it look like I'm an a$$ for expecting my kid to sit at the dinner table, with his family, and eat his dinner.

 

You see Moi, we are what historians refer to as a, "Family"......Prono: Fam-ah-lee.....

 

We have a routine around here. There is only one part of the entire day that we all sit together all at once and discuss how our days went. We, ummmmm, here's a tough one......communicate, Prono: com-yun-eh-kate.

 

But that's ok, I don't expect you to understand family values.......

 

Why make someone eat if he's not hungry?

 

He could've put two bites on his plate and visit with his family, we would've teased him a bit, but we would've been fine with it.

 

If he's not hungry, say 'fine, we'll put it in the fridge but you'll have to heat it up for yourself later'.

 

Yeah, right! Let's start a new fad, a new habit, then let the other 4 follow suit......why fix dinner in the first place?

 

This allows him to not shove food down himself when he doesn't need it plus fend for himself later, which every kid should be taught.

 

Like I said, he didn't have to put much on his plate at all....and, um, he's 14, and he's a better cook than I am....I think he knows how to fend for himself just fine.....besides, you think Mrs. Moose is a terrible mother or something? She knows when and how to instruct our kids to fend for themselves, thanks.

 

I never could stand people who force their kids to do stuff 'just because'.

 

I usually have a good reason when I tell my kids to do something. But even if I didn't, I expect them to do what they are told, when they are told to do it.

 

There's nothing logical or helpful about making people eat just in order to obey orders.

 

Maybe not to you. And we weren't forcing him to eat much, a bite or two. It's the fact that he was told to do something, and he didn't. My kids will learn to follow orders, whatever they may be, (within reason). I may be wrong here, but um, wouldn't it be better for my kids in the long run to learn how to respect those who have authority over them?

 

Do you have kids Moi?

[moimeme]

He could've put two bites on his plate and visit with his family, we would've teased him a bit, but we would've been fine with it.

 

Then why not just say that?

 

I may be wrong here, but um, wouldn't it be better for my kids in the long run to learn how to respect those who have authority over them?

 

No. Absolutely not. They should respect everyone and they should be taught to figure out for themselves what a reasonable request is and what is unreasonable and then how to respond in either case. Obeying authority is the worst thing people can do - it's giving over power to others who are never any better than you.

 

Do I have kids? No but I had four stepkids for two years. There was none of this 'do it because I say so' ridiculousness. People cooperate when they are given reasonable explanations. Even kids.

[johan]

...wouldn't it be better for my kids in the long run to learn how to respect those who have authority over them?

Maybe. But you can also turn them off to it if the authority you're trying get them to respect is arbitrary. Sooner or later he's going to figure out that he can decide for himself whether he needs to eat.

 

How many adults do you know of who have obvious "problems with authority"? I think that usually comes from being dominated by your parents.

 

It could be that your son really wasn't hungry. It could be that he mouthed off because he knew what was coming.

 

But I also agree that mouthing off is not the best strategy. You should have gotten after him for that alone. Not for not wanting to eat. So maybe it would be more effective to have told him to change his tone. That wouldn't have been arbitrary. Maybe he can choose for himself sometimes whether he wants to join the family for dinner. Just a suggestion.

[moimeme]

Now, had it been my 13-year-old stepkid, I would have said 'you don't have to eat if you're not hungry but you know dinnertime is family time and we want you with us at the table'. That's giving him a reason, allowing him to make sensible decisions about eating, and letting him know he's wanted and valued all at the same time.

[dyermaker]

Of course he shouldn't be forced to eat, but when you sit down for dinner, he should have to sit with you and behave as a normal member of the family.

[Moose]

Then why not just say that?

 

Don't you think we've encountered this before? I'm not going to keep explaining things to him. He knows what's expected, he knew the whole point was we wanted him at the table.

 

They should respect everyone and they should be taught to figure out for themselves what a reasonable request is and what is unreasonable and then how to respond in either case.

 

And I agree, 100%. It's not an unreasonable request to expect him to be present at the table when he's home, and join the family. When I said respect authority, I meant just that. Not to become a slave to anyone.....I think you knew that, you're just trying to prove me wrong....

 

Obeying authority is the worst thing people can do - it's giving over power to others who are never any better than you.

 

Next time your boss asks you to do something for him/her, and you don't feel like doing it for whatever reason, read back this line to him/her......I'm sure it'll go over great!

 

Do I have kids? No but I had four stepkids for two years.

 

Well, I'm sure they were only there for 2 years because things didn't work out between you and your husband, I'm not totally surprised......I wonder if this had something to do with it:

 

There was none of this 'do it because I say so' ridiculousness.

 

Cool! I'd love to have a step mom that would let me run the house. You know, 'do it because I say so', is a heck of a lot easier than having to explain, "Do it because we are your family, we want to spend time with you because life is short and you're not going to be living here for much longer, besides we'd like to share our day with you and maybe have a laugh or two", every friggin' time.......especially when he knows all of this..... already.

 

__________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Maybe. But you can also turn them off to it if the authority you're trying get them to respect is arbitrary.

 

I already admitted that raising my voice at him was wrong. I needed to just stay out of it and let Mrs. Moose handle it. My mistake.

 

Sooner or later he's going to figure out that he can decide for himself whether he needs to eat.

 

You think???? This isn't about his not being hungry.........

 

How many adults do you know of who have obvious "problems with authority"? I think that usually comes from being dominated by your parents.

 

Funny, I would naturally think it was quite the opposite. As a matter of fact, now that I'm thinking about it, the majority of the welders I've fired for not following orders came from broken homes with a single mom or dad, or the lack of both.......

 

But I also agree that mouthing off is not the best strategy.

 

You and me both, thanks.

 

You should have gotten after him for that alone.

 

No. I should've stayed out of it period and watch how my wife was, key word, "was", handling it.

 

Maybe he can choose for himself sometimes whether he wants to join the family for dinner. Just a suggestion.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Trust me when I say, that's not going to happen. I could say that it's because it's my house, I make the rules and by golly, I'm the king of this here castle, and you are going to do what I say......but that's not the reason....entirely....hehe. The main reason is we still have 4 other kids to raise up. One of which is only 6 years old. You've heard monkey see monkey do? I'm not going to go through having to explain to her why her brother doesn't have to eat or sit at the table every time he decideds he's not going to. So until she's got the grasp of why he gets to, and understands that it's fair, he will sit at the table. Hungry or not.

[dyermaker]

Would you understand how someone would look at this series of posts, and perhaps gather that when you ask "for pointers", you're really just looking to give everyone else pointers of your own?

[Moose]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do.

 

I was looking more for, "Soap his mouth", or "Make him sit in a corner for 30 minutes", or anything else that I haven't tried. He's 14.....surely there's more ideas out there somewhere!

[Barby]

I think all teenagers at this age test every single limit they can test with their parents. I'm not a parent but I have to say maybe give him more attention when he's doing something well so he won't feel the need to get attention by smarting off??!! Just a thought?!!

[moimeme]

Next time your boss asks you to do something for him/her, and you don't feel like doing it for whatever reason, read back this line to him/her......I'm sure it'll go over great!

 

For the past many years, I've had bosses who pretty much let me write my own ticket. They know I'm smart enough to figure out what needs to be done and to do it. And if they ever do ask me to do things, they *ask* as in make a polite request, not issue an order. In fact, my current boss is always asking for help and advice - she treats me like a colleague because she knows I know my stuff.

[Moose]

Originally posted by moimeme

For the past many years, I've had bosses who pretty much let me write my own ticket. They know I'm smart enough to figure out what needs to be done and to do it. And if they ever do ask me to do things, they *ask* as in make a polite request, not issue an order. In fact, my current boss is always asking for help and advice - she treats me like a colleague because she knows I know my stuff.

 

I'm happy for you. Hope it continues to work out that way.

[Fayebelle]

Put a lock on the fridge and explain that if he (or the others) doesn't want to eat the food on your table when it is ready- he can go buy his own food and prepare it when he wants to eat. Everyone's stomach can be set to a schedule- if he's not hungry at dinner time it's prob b/c he's snacking somewhere else.

 

 

Extreme- but that'll help the dinner routine- but the mouthing off and entering other people's arguments is just a matter of patience you have to battle yourself

[Bronzepen]

Here is one suggestion.

 

If he doesn't want to eat/sit with you then he has to do the dishes right after everyone is done eating.

[Moose]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

Here is one suggestion.

 

If he doesn't want to eat/sit with you then he has to do the dishes right after everyone is done eating.

 

That's a good idea! Thanks! It might interfere with the chore chart, but whoever's job it is to do the dishes surely won't complain!

[zara]

from your post it seems as though your wife was handling it just fine and i bet her next words would have been something like, "you don't have to eat but we would like to you sit at the table as part of the family". So i think you are correct in realizing that you probably jumped in there too early.

 

Teenagers are developing adults and their 'mouthy' behaviour is all part of this developmental process, not only testing boundaries but also understanding adult ways of thinking and behaving. So whereas "because mom or dad says so" is reason enough as a child, as teenagers go through this development stage they genuinely need more explanation at an adult level. Often repeatedly until they understand and re-learn to follow the request but now with an added understanding of the motivation and easoning behind it.

 

I've tried to illustrate it below:

 

 

 

 

0----------------------------11~~~~~~~~~18------------------------>

unqualified acceptance Questioning Qualified acceptance

 

So i'm not saying you should get into some huge debate everytime you want him to do something, but after it has been initially explained it should be reinforced just in a simple line like the one at the start that i suspect your wife was about to use. I think she has a handle on it. Try not to work yourself up.

[tattoomytoe]

what we did at our house when we were older was if you were not going to eat, then you had to sit with the rest of the family while they ate.

or if we were mouthy and the parents got pissed, we would go to our rooms with out dinner. course we only had a radio in our room.

[izzybelle]

moose,

i think advice on this, like so many other things, is difficult because these kids (esp. teens) are all so dratically different and their moods change so quickly.

 

i have a 13 yr. old son, who becomes very mouthy at times. what works with him, i doubt would work with many. i tried talking to him about his mouth, yes, there's been some yelling in the past, which also didn't work. i now, just shoot him a "mom death look", and walk away. typically, not always but probably about 90% of the time, within about a half hour he approaches me, on his own, and apologizes. he knows when he's crossed the line and when it's his responsibility to take the first step back across it, knowing that i'm willing to meet him part way.

 

as for eating, my parents used to do the "everyone sits at the table and cleans their plate thing"... the result? i learned to hide food i didn't want in a napkin to be thrown out at a later time (or gave it to the dog), eating is still nothing i take great enjoyment in, and as for the "everyone at the table" i hated the forced interaction (or silence) so much that i don't enforce it at all with my kids. their father does at his house, but i don't.

 

and as for your story about the people you've worked with from broken homes who lack respect for authority...there may be other things going on there. i'm divorced and have been told over and over again that my kids are the most polite and happy kids they've ever met. this from other parents. from teachers and coaches i hear, again, over and over again, that my kids are respectful, a joy to teach and to coach. and to back that up they've rec'd school and sport recognition and awards that backs this all up. a broken home does not have to mean that kids don't respect authority as kids or as adults! i model that respect ... holding doors open for people, always saying thank you when someone does for me, giving money to people at the check out when they're short (even though it's usually all i have)...the kids see it and they like the feeling it gives them and the reaction we get from others.

[quankanne]

10 minutes later, we're explaining to the other why we acted the way we did. 15 minutes later, we're coming up with ways to fix the initial problem 20 minutes later, we're apologizing to each other.

 

sounds like you and the missus have got the communication thing downpat, and that's often the most overlooked area in a relationship.

 

as for your son, I realize you've probably 'splained to him over and over and over why y'all sit together at dinner as a family. Be prepared to tell him until you're blue in the face, because it'll probably take that long for it to click in his tiny adolescent brain ...

 

my suggestion is to wait until the two of you have some time alone and you're doing something unrelated to eating or cooking. Very calmly initiate the conversation on why it's so important to you and Wifey to have the family together for at least one meal a day. Not because you want to torture your kids, but because you want them to have at least one solid tradition as a family together that they can depend on, and when one of those kids mouthe off about it, it makes it very difficult to maintain that tradition. Also tell him that you understand for his need to not want to have to "conform to authority" all the time, but there are times and places to exercise that option -- but the family dinner is not that place or time! You may also want to remind him (nicely) that he's got several pairs of little eyes watching his every move because they look up to him, and that how he is now will influence how they will be later. It's called guilt, which can be a wonderful motivator

 

seriously, though, I think the more calmly you present your case (as it were) to your son, the better he'll listen. At that age, if it sounded like my daddy was getting ready to yell, I'd tune him out. And because Daddy is short-tempered to start with, I tuned him out a lot -- it's taken me most of my lifetime to finally reach a "good" spot in our relationship, mostly because I've finally grown up enough to understand that I shouldn't contribute to the breakdown in our relationship by being such a jackass about things. but I digress ...

 

just talk to the boy, Moose. Be calm, but let him know that your children are important to you and their mom, and that's why you strive to create that family time with them every day at dinner. Unfortunately, the mouthing off situation will probably get worse because he's at that age. Just keep reminding him (and yourself) that no matter what a little shxthead he's being, you love him very, very much.

 

i now, just shoot him a "mom death look"

 

that's a VERY effective way of dealing with a situation, because then the kid knows he's crossed the line. My mom would give me a hurt look and it'd about killed me, because the last thing I ever wanted to do was disappoint her.

[Anais]

My 7 years old daughter was mouthy last night.

 

I freaked out on and spanked her lightly. I said her I am sorry later but felt bad all night.

 

She was telling she hates stores. We go very rare, only if we really have to. I try to leave her with mom and go alone.

I wanted that we go all together this time.

 

I told her you can stay with our neighbors and play with their kids or you can come with grandmother and me. She couldn’t decide which one she wants. So I told her if you wouldn’t decide I will do it for you. I decided that she comes with us. She has been lazy lately and wants to do only things that she likes. She said nonono and cried. I told her that she would never go to a store if she behaves like that. And asked where else we can get food or toys?

 

Here she started to behave like a child she plays with at bible school.

 

That child, if she wants something, she start crying, yelling and screaming until she gets it. My daughter never did it before.

 

 

I was really upset the other night when she saw such a behavior of the other child and now she repeated it. That child’s mom is in prison for drugs. I think the child has some disorder or is just spoiled. I didn’t mind my daughter to pay with the child, however; I was always worried that she will repeat all what the child does. And she did. I know spanking was wrong. It was the first time I did it.

[moimeme]

and have been told over and over again that my kids are the most polite and happy kids they've ever met.

 

Kids that feel respected are like that. It was the same with the stepkids. I obviously can't take full credit because I didn't have them from birth, but they were great kids - a teenager, a pre-teen, and two little kiddles - and strangers would tell us what good kids they were!

 

i model that respect

 

That's so important! It's very important to not be one of those 'do as I say, not what I do' people. And if you treat the kids as though they're dumb critters to be ordered around rather than intelligent humans who can process explanations, they will in turn treat other humans (including their own family) the same way.

 

And good point about telling them stuff over and over, quank - you're dead on. You do have to repeat yourself to kids - and repeating that they are valued and that their company is wanted will never be a bad thing.

[Elmo]

Well, Moose...

 

I think I got the drift that this is a behavior that has happened before, and will probably happen again....

 

Sounds like a power play....him trying to have power over this situation. Of course, we all know this is a part of growing up. Also a part of growing up is that if you try a power play, you'd better be willing for others to use their power.

 

My idea would be to say "Okay, you're not hungry." Then go about getting the table set, everyone sitting down, acting normal, talking about the fun stuff of the day. Do not ask him to "at least join you". Just everyone else enjoy a "family" meal.

 

Oh, and don't save ANY leftovers. And, try to only have bare essentials in the fridge for when he is starving 3 hours then.

 

This works on 3 years old, 13 year olds and 50 year olds! Try it.

[Beth]

Yeah, what Quank said

 

I also noticed something in the posts.

 

You demonstrated your communication with Mrs. Moose here :

10 minutes later, we're explaining to the other why we acted the way we did.

15 minutes later, we're coming up with ways to fix the initial problem

20 minutes later, we're apologizing to each other.

25 minutes later, we're huggin' and kissin'.

 

But what was your last communication with Moose Jr.? At 30 minutes maybe you could have been calmly talking with Moose Jr. and apologizing to him for raising your voice. A teenager knows his parents aren't perfect and to have one apologize for their behavior is, I think, a good role-model. It lets them know that it is OK to be wrong sometimes, but what is not OK is to be disrespectful. I think I was 12 or 13 when my mother apologized to me for an angry outburst of hers and it made a HUGE impact on me. It was the best demonstration of what she had been telling me for years. Teach him communication skills by participating in adult discussions like you do with Mrs. Moose.

 

Just a thought