MorbidFever Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 It is human nature to judge people based on their behavior, especially when the general public finds the behavior to be immoral or offensive. The solution is simple, though - if you are offended by being judged for having sex with a married man, then stop having sex with married men. If you choose to continue to behave in that manner, then you have to accept the fact that you will be judged for your conduct. You clearly missed the point..it's a double standard. And who is whining? Because, when someone points something so hypocritical out..that is whining? LOL! This is the double standard: MM makes a public post he had an affair. The comments are all supportive of him. OW makes a public post she had an affair with a married man? Imagine the outcome of that. I remember when there was Team Jolie and Team Aniston..they even had t-shirts of this that a very popular store in Los Angeles was selling. Meanwhile, nobody blamed Pitt did they. Eva Longoria wore a t-shirt at the time with the saying "I'll have your baby, Brad!" If you don't see how the blame is almost always placed on the OW, you are delusional. 1
RickFox Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 Even my wife held my xmw more responsible for the A than me. We have had fights about this over and over again in which I try to tell her I am just as much to blame if not moreso. 2
krazikat Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 At least in my case, those that know are the ones that truly matter to me. Even those that don't know the full story, this is what I can conclude - the men don't care and the women distance themselves from you. It's such b.s. how other women blame just the woman only for a relationship/affair. HE was the one that started it. Could I have ignored him? Sure. But, I was flattered and had been in awe of him for some time before he noticed me. Not trying to excuse my behavior, but had he never contacted me, this never would have happened. I also find, even those that you care about, that know the truth, there is still a stigma of 'fooling around with a married man' crap. The majority of people never blame the MM no matter what the facts are. Wow...you actually had me speechless for a moment...and that rarely happens. Stigma? Crap? Smh Yes, as a whole, an AP is judged for sleeping with a MP...not just OW but OM as well. Although I will say that OW are more commonly slandered with more creative names. MM are certainly not free from judgment...and typically women who get hit on by MM are not thinking positive thoughts about said MM....
Spark1111 Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 At least in my case, those that know are the ones that truly matter to me. Even those that don't know the full story, this is what I can conclude - the men don't care and the women distance themselves from you. It's such b.s. how other women blame just the woman only for a relationship/affair. HE was the one that started it. Could I have ignored him? Sure. But, I was flattered and had been in awe of him for some time before he noticed me. Not trying to excuse my behavior, but had he never contacted me, this never would have happened. I also find, even those that you care about, that know the truth, there is still a stigma of 'fooling around with a married man' crap. The majority of people never blame the MM no matter what the facts are. but this is an excuse. You could have ignored him. You knew he was married. I don't agree that the double standard exists as much as it once did. I believe both parties are judged by their actions. Many people distance themselves from mess and the ones who caused it or brought it into their lives, I.e. cheating partners, whether married or not. I'm sure all MAPs try to minimize the affair when caught, as they did the marriage when they entered into the affair. But that just perpetuates the poor me, I was a victim mentality that helped them have an affair in the first place. No intelligent, wanting to reconcile spouse should accept that drivel that it was the other AP's fault. many do not. we don't buy it, believe it, or need to. 2
lilmisscantbewrong Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 Spark I generally agree with most everything you post, but I can guarantee you I have lived it here, in this community. And there is no doubt I was looked at differently than my xmom is. Even after producing letters he wrote to me, it was still MORE my fault - jezebel spirit and all (yes I was branded). Fortunately I did nothing that they thought or said I would do so four years later, people do look at it differently, but it took a very long time. Even female friends who thought I might be after their husbands and that couldn't have been further from the truth. I think it is likely in more metropolitan areas that it might be looked at differently, but here in rural, USA I can tell you the woman takes the biggest hit in all of this. My advice is - DON'T DO IT! 2
violet1 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Even my wife held my xmw more responsible for the A than me. We have had fights about this over and over again in which I try to tell her I am just as much to blame if not moreso. In my early 20's I was once unknowingly the OW. The guy told me he and his GF broke up. Well..surprise they didn't. She had the nerve to blame me and call me a slut when I didn't know they were still together. The double standard definitely exists.
lilmisscantbewrong Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Weski - I agree with you - we should be more kind to each other as women. Unfortunately I wasn't in a place to even think about that. It was the biggest fog I had ever been in in my life. I feel so badly that I let his bs down in that way. If I could change it all I would..... But to the topic - the double standard exists. I have lived it. 2
Got it Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 What on earth is a woman code???? Is there a man code??? Was this taught in school???
MissBee Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 What on earth is a woman code???? Is there a man code??? Was this taught in school??? Yes, there is a man code : About The Man Code « Offical Man Laws ? Rules to live by for the common man.
Got it Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Yes, there is a man code : About The Man Code « Offical Man Laws ? Rules to live by for the common man. Solid gold link. :laugh: I stand corrected. Virginia there IS a man code!!! :laugh:
MissBee Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Solid gold link. :laugh: I stand corrected. Virginia there IS a man code!!! :laugh: I suppose appropriate to the topic is this section of the man code re: cheating Cheating Intervention You must make an honest attempt to intervene before a friend has a drunken hookup with another girl while in a committed relationship. It is not your duty to police the relationship, only to offer a friendly reminder. If the man indicates that he is of sound mind and will, you are obligated to let him make his own mistakes. If asked by his girlfriend, you know nothing, as per the Secrecy code, but it is expected that you have a great deal less respect for the man. Women « Offical Man Laws ? Rules to live by for the common man. 1
Got it Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I suppose appropriate to the topic is this section of the man code re: cheating On fire. :laugh: Gotta follow the 'bro code. This is right up there with the "holding her purse" tenet. And don't forget the commandment about "having sex in friend's bed".
MorbidFever Posted November 13, 2013 Posted November 13, 2013 (edited) but this is an excuse. You could have ignored him. You knew he was married. True, but I believed all the lies he told me. All the unhappy, it's ending etc etc. He wrote my mother, telling her how much he loved me and wanted to be with me. I spoke to both of his parents on the phone and his mother several times by messenger and she re-iterated things he told me. How unhappy he was and is (was) going to leave her. And then there's all the public posts he made about me and how his life was soon going to change. When my Facebook was public, he left a long post on my wall about how he couldn't wait for us to come out as a couple and he couldn't live without me blahblah. All of these things made me believe it was over well before I entered the picture.. Edited November 13, 2013 by MorbidFever
wannabdone Posted November 13, 2013 Posted November 13, 2013 I will chime in, although everyone else has already said it. Yes, very common. I'm sorry you had this done to you, it hurts terribly. I had this done over and over to me for years, and took him back each time. Until I finally had enough. Why do they do this? Cowardly. They know, much like everyone else the dynamics of this type of thing. 1- most everyone will blame the OW, rather than the MM. And see us as the temptress, the harlot, who came in and seduced this poor innocent man, and tried to break up a family. 2- when someone is faced with the reality that there is another person chasing their man, the fight or flight kicks in. And 9x out of 10, the first instinct is to fight. So you combine these two, the war and hatred has been turned toward you, and not him. Pretty clever. And then also she always has in the back of her mind, "well he did tell me the truth". I would safely say, that he probably took all of the above stated things into account. Here is the painful truth of him doing this though, and one that took me a VERY LONG time before I figured it out, and now it is so clear. If said MM does this, and throws his OW under the bus, he has NO real thoughts of leaving. I mean NONE, ZERO. He didn't do this to tell her the truth so you could be together, he told her for himself. If he did have intentions of doing this to leave, he would have said it, followed by "I want a divorce", and then left. I am sorry that its so blunt, but it just is what it is. I know we will try while in an A to twist and turn it to make it okay, to accept it, to understand why he had to do it. It lessens the hurt and betrayal, and it keeps them in our lives. But I will tell you, if this happens once, and you allow it, you can bet your life on that it will happen again and again. Not only will it happen again, but he will also share all of your secrets you told him, how you are, what you like, how you are in bed, etc. She will know as much about you as he does. I am very sorry this has happened to you. I hope you can see what the real reasons are behind his actions, and take care of yourself. (((((hugs)))))
lilmisscantbewrong Posted November 13, 2013 Posted November 13, 2013 Unfortunately, it's the but's that cause all the problems to begin with.................... It is interesting that you say this. The xmom in my case pursued me relentlessly. There were many times over the course of our relationship, prior to anything being emotional or physical, that this happened. For instance, we actually left the local church for a period of about 3 years. He would show up at my house for conversation trying to convince us to come back. He showed up at my office regularly and would sit down and have long conversations. He would call me or email me. Again, most of it innocuous, but when I look back now it was really premeditated on his part - even my husband and friends see it. Right before everything really started, he was at my house at least once a week (without her), our families spent a lot of time together - in any other circumstance, I wouldn't have really been spending time with her - I liked her but we didn't have a lot in common other than our mutual church. My husband and he would never have hung out - they could converse, but they wouldn't have been going to pubs or anything together. He was at my house constantly. After it blew up, my husband told me how much he hated that and felt invaded but he never verbalized that to me. One person even pointed out "he pursued you in your husband's house" and you know what? She was right. I couldn't see it - I was a conquest. I am not saying he didn't care for me - I think he did - but it was quite obvious. I didn't do the pursing - he did. But yet I came out on the short end of the stick because that all got "explained away" when the rubber met the road. The more I think about that aspect of it, the more I am sickened by it. 2
yellowmaverick Posted November 13, 2013 Posted November 13, 2013 Spark I generally agree with most everything you post, but I can guarantee you I have lived it here, in this community. And there is no doubt I was looked at differently than my xmom is. Even after producing letters he wrote to me, it was still MORE my fault - jezebel spirit and all (yes I was branded). Fortunately I did nothing that they thought or said I would do so four years later, people do look at it differently, but it took a very long time. Even female friends who thought I might be after their husbands and that couldn't have been further from the truth. I think it is likely in more metropolitan areas that it might be looked at differently, but here in rural, USA I can tell you the woman takes the biggest hit in all of this. My advice is - DON'T DO IT! I can see that in some communities, society may brand the woman more than the cheating man. However, as a BS, I saw no difference between my cheating husband and the mistress he cheated with. They were both married. They both cheated and lied. I have used the same description of their behavior for the both of them. All of the BS's who I personally know feel this way as well. My question to you is why does it really matter whether your community looks at you differently than your MM? Would it make you feel better if he was "branded" the same as you perceive that you are? You have admitted that what you did was wrong and that you are moving forward with positive changes. Focus on THAT, because you can 100% control THAT. You have to let go of what you cannot control.
lilmisscantbewrong Posted November 13, 2013 Posted November 13, 2013 Yellow maverick, I was only explaining that it does exist - the branding of the ow as the pursuer. I can tell you that prior to all of this, I felt the same way! I saw many marriages crumble because of infidelity - I never ever thought I would be in this situation and detested those that were. And I always blamed the woman - silly huh? I was just saying that it was that way in my case - I'm glad you saw things differently, but not everyone does.
yellowmaverick Posted November 13, 2013 Posted November 13, 2013 Yellow maverick, I was only explaining that it does exist - the branding of the ow as the pursuer. I can tell you that prior to all of this, I felt the same way! I saw many marriages crumble because of infidelity - I never ever thought I would be in this situation and detested those that were. And I always blamed the woman - silly huh? I was just saying that it was that way in my case - I'm glad you saw things differently, but not everyone does. I get that you would be frustrated, Lil, but I think that it may be holding you back from fully recovering. The only way that you can positively influence other people's thoughts about you is to act with integrity - which you are now doing. If other people cannot see this, then you have done all that you can. Honestly, the only people who REALLY matter are your family. 1
MorbidFever Posted November 13, 2013 Posted November 13, 2013 Unfortunately, it's the but's that cause all the problems to begin with.................... I made another post about the things he initially said, true or not. I never questioned them, because there were many things that were made public on social media. And honestly, talking to both his parents, why would I ever suspect something was going on other than what they were all telling me. I traveled with him including a cousin of his, while he was working. I even tagged him in pictures and locations. Nobody said anything about that. It wasn't until HE posted a picture of himself on my wall, that a friend of hers asked her who I was. And after she found out, he still kept me in the loop with everything. He begged and begged to let him come here, to move here. I met up with him once in a different state and it was the same thing. He was furious when I left for the airport. Kept telling me to turn around and come back. When I said no, he hung up on me and the next conversation he was yelling. It was insane. That was the last time I saw him, though we did communicate for four months after that. And she knew it, for awhile. We talked daily until he started to make excuses that he couldn't talk, or would write a bit and said he had to go, he was sorry, but she was watching him. She checked his phone and found an email he forgot to delete. He told me he made up an excuse about it to her. Right then I knew it was time for no contact ever again.
thecharade Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 Maybe it's simply my perception, but men seem to 'only' be judged harshly if they leave. Dads, grandfathers, uncles, brothers say, "Ok, so you made a mistake. Whatever. But leave her? Oh, no. That is wrong." And the MM instinctively knows this, so the OW flies right under the bus.
yellowmaverick Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 I've been reading relationship/infidelity boards for over 15 years. The one commonality in posts written by BWs that I've seen over and over and over again is that her cheating husband blamed the affair on the OW. And these BWs really believe it happened that way. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen that way sometimes, but when you read the same crap excuses by cheating MM over and over - that it was the OW who approached HIM and was aggressive, that it was the OW who 'took advantage of HIM because he was vulnerable,' that it was the OW who 'tricked' HIM into an affair, that the OW knew his marriage was in a rough spot so she used that to manipulate HIM, and on and on and on, you start to see a pattern emerge. These cheating men also lie to their BWs and tell them the sex was horrible, or they felt so guilty afterwards that they 'threw up' (oh BROTHER), they'll often claim the sex was mechanical with no passion, foreplay, kissing, etc. Another often told tale is that they 'couldn't get it up with the OW because they felt so guilty.' I roll my eyes when I read that nonsense. But alot of the BWs believe these lies and think that the affair really happened that way. I guess they have to if they want to reconcile. I'm not a BS and I'm not an OW. I'm simply stating what I've observed for years on relationship boards. I think by him claiming the OW meant nothing to him, the sex was horrible, it was the OW who took advantage of him and promising to "never talk to the OW again" is definitely throwing her right under the bus - regardless of whether he begins contacting the OW after D Day or not. That's when you see these guy's TRUE colors. And they ain't pretty. While I agree that MM act cowardly, I have never once read or heard a BS make the comments that you described. On the contrary, in my support group, ALL of the WSs have owned their behavior, admitting that they were just thinking of themselves. Each party to an affair is 100% to blame for his/her behavior and neither is a victim. 1
Got it Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 I've been reading relationship/infidelity boards for over 15 years. The one commonality in posts written by BWs that I've seen over and over and over again is that her cheating husband blamed the affair on the OW. And these BWs really believe it happened that way. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen that way sometimes, but when you read the same crap excuses by cheating MM over and over - that it was the OW who approached HIM and was aggressive, that it was the OW who 'took advantage of HIM because he was vulnerable,' that it was the OW who 'tricked' HIM into an affair, that the OW knew his marriage was in a rough spot so she used that to manipulate HIM, and on and on and on, you start to see a pattern emerge. These cheating men also lie to their BWs and tell them the sex was horrible, or they felt so guilty afterwards that they 'threw up' (oh BROTHER), they'll often claim the sex was mechanical with no passion, foreplay, kissing, etc. Another often told tale is that they 'couldn't get it up with the OW because they felt so guilty.' I roll my eyes when I read that nonsense. But alot of the BWs believe these lies and think that the affair really happened that way. I guess they have to if they want to reconcile. I'm not a BS and I'm not an OW. I'm simply stating what I've observed for years on relationship boards. I think by him claiming the OW meant nothing to him, the sex was horrible, it was the OW who took advantage of him and promising to "never talk to the OW again" is definitely throwing her right under the bus - regardless of whether he begins contacting the OW after D Day or not. That's when you see these guy's TRUE colors. And they ain't pretty. Good God you have been reading infidelity boards for over 15 years!?! Why on earth!?! Talk about depressing and weird especially not having been a BS or a OP. 3
MorbidFever Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 There is also the possibility that he deliberately left the email in order for her to find it. This is not uncommon in affair situations, for the betrayer to leave small signs of evidence so that the responsibility of ending the affair is taken immediately out of his hands through discovery. Lets be frank here, the man is weak enough to address his marital issues as he perceives them by inviting a third party into the marriage without his wife's knowledge or consent, so is it not reasonable to believe that he will also be weak enough to look for the easiest way out of his affair? that being discovery of it by his wife? She found out four months prior. That doesn't mean he didn't do it purposely, like you said, though. This guy isn't weak, he is a sociopath. He says what he wants, does what he wants, without considering anyone else's feelings but his own. He also did end it a couple times previously without finding an easy way to do so. Just flat out did it. Never lasted more than 3 days though before I was strong enough to go NC thanks to reading so much on this forum.
Lostinlife4now Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 Oh my....yes, MM always always always throws OW under the bus to save their arses. Then the OW throws/kicks MM to the curb. Done. Done. Done....EASY!!!!!
Got it Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 Oh my....yes, MM always always always throws OW under the bus to save their arses. Then the OW throws/kicks MM to the curb. Done. Done. Done....EASY!!!!! Are you saying that MM always throw OW under the bus and the reason they do so is to save themselves. Or Are you saying that MM always throw OW under the bus when they want to save themselves? Because, no, not all MM always throw the OW under the bus. Hyperboles tend to be true.
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