Two wrongs...

[kerino]

Hey all. December will be 8 years with my current boyfriend. For the first 4-5 years I was so totally in love with him and would light up a room talking about him. Then the in love feeling went away, I lost my dad, stopped working a part time job (that was in addition to my full time) and attempted to 'figure things out.' Unfortunately, because of my childhood, I didn't know that I needed to roll up my sleeves and get to work at keeping the love alive.

 

Two years ago I had an affair. He found out, threw me out of the house, then wanted me back. The affair went on for about 8 months all the while my boyfriend wanting me back. While I was off screwing around (with quite possibly the absolute worst person for me), my bf went to online dating. He met some women, went on a few dates with a local one and struck up a phone friendship with another out of state.

 

I ended the affair and haven't had contact with that person since. I concentrate hard on my job and just keep my nose to the grindstone and try to keep our relationship from falling apart. In the meantime, he is still talking to this woman. He had met her a couple of times (she's out of state but conveniently from this area and travels back here time to time - she also happens to live not far from his mother's summer house...) I don't like the friendship and we had an agreement that he would talk to her twice a week (Mon & Fri) and would never see her without my knowledge.

 

3 weeks ago I found out they met the beginning of this summer when she was in the area. Two days later he fessed up that she came to his mother's house while he was there later this summer. He swears that there has been no physical contact, they just talk on the phone. He says talking to her 'makes him feel good.'

 

Well, because I'm a woman and because I caught him being sneaky, I started poking around. I went into his phone record and found out he talks to her every day, several times a day. Needless to say I flipped out big time. Went off on him. Called her. Went off on her. She maintains she has done nothing wrong and they're just friends. He maintains the same and says he's sorry he lied to me, but not sorry that he talks to her. My feelings are crushed.

 

So now we battle back and forth that what I did to him was so much worse, etc etc. And yes, I don't discount that. I beat myself up every day for the hurt I've caused. But seriously, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

He went with me on Friday to my therapy session and said he wants to be happy with me again, but doesn't know if he can ever get past the damage that's been done. My therapist assured him that it would take work but it is possible. When she asked him if he would stop talking to the other woman, he said he would not. Then she asked if he would go a week without talking to her, until we could get back together with her again. He hemmed and hawed and actually pulled his hand away from mine. I compromised to two times next week. It's clear to me that he has a need to protect this 'friendship,' but on the other hand still wants to work it out with me.

 

I don't know what to do. Do I be the bitch and say end the friendship taking the chance he chooses her? Do I give in and offer a compromise that he can still talk to her x times/wk/month? Do I have the right to insist on seeing phone records and facebook messages? I think I do, but he's not being transparent at all. I have given him all my user names and passwords as I have nothing to hide.

 

I am so lost and just want to fix our relationship. Thank you for 'listening.'

k~

[Artie Lang]

sounds like your affair has poisened this relationship..... maybe beyond repair.

 

if he's really on board with reconciling with you, he must end all contact with this woman. you've got to bite the bullet and demand this from him, even if it means that you might very well lose him.

[2sunny]

Maybe he's not sure you are his priority since you cheated.

 

You can't make him feel differently... Looks like you didn't care that much since you kept your A going - furthering your ability to lie.

 

Some damaged R just can't be untangled - this may be one. Seems you both are set on causing pain - that's not love.

[Fredflintstone]

I'll try and put some perspective on this, I found out my wife was having an affair in Aug 2013.

I am absolutely devastated, we are trying to reconcile. One thing that I am absolutely adamant on is that I will not allow myself to be put in this position again. I have been making alot of new friends and getting out alittle more than I used to, my wife doesn't like it. I however feel much better knowing that I have people whom I can talk to. Some of them are female which I wouldn't of dreamed of before. Maybe when it happened to him he thought because you were doing it, why shouldn't he or maybe he thought you were through. He may be friends with her but there friendship only occurred as a result of your affair. If they are genuinely friends he might think you're trying to control him but I can see why you don't like it. Maybe he doesn't want to put all his eggs in one basket anymore, look where that got him before! She might be someone he would be with if you two end up separating. He obviously does love you though if you're still together after all this time. I could be completely wrong though.

[Zenstudent]

Rebuilding a relationship damaged by infidelity is possible, but it isn't easy at all.

 

Let me ask something: How does he know that he is your priority? How does he know that you're not still screwing around? Do you have male friends? How have the two of you dealt with your infidelity?

 

Consider these themes. Of course two wrongs doesn't make a right, but your current issues are for a large part born out of your long term affair.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

You are allowed to have dealbreakers whether or not you are the WS.

 

You are quite aware of how easy it is to cross boundaries, that is why you are adamant that he stop this relationship from escalating. And you are correct.

[Yesterday]

The 8 years is the time frame of your relationship, 40% of that time your relationship has been broken.

 

Your cheating behind his back for 8 months removed all trust he could have in you. He wanted you back, but no betrayed partner ever forgets the hurt, the humiliation and the anger, it keeps coming back.

 

Meanwhile, he is cheating right now, except he is supposedly willing to flaunt it in front of you. I doubt if he is being honest with you that this is not physical as well but who cares, he refuses to stop.

 

You must leave the relationship unless he agrees to have absolutely no contact with her. He needs to be completely transparent with you with his cell, computer etc. You need to offer the same to him - no trust is allowed at this time.

 

Know that you can never fully trust each other again. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life in a relationship built on the past 3 years?

 

It is time to take on the heavy load of finding that love you had with each other, or move on. You will both find it with someone else.

 

Good Luck

[harrybrown]

He is not over the hurt. How do you think he felt when you had the affair for 8 months? He begged you then, but you twisted the knife deeper and deeper.

 

He will never trust you again, and he feels like your backup plan. He was not in first place during your A. He can not put himself back into the place where you hurt him so.

 

He does not trust you and thinks that you will do this again to him. He is keeping this friend, so he does not end up like before.

 

He is not helping your relationship, and he will not put himself in a place to be hurt and feel worthless.

 

I think you need to move on from this relationship. The A killed all trust.

[Darren Steez]

I'll chime in and agree with most of what others have said. For 8 months you carried on the affair, that was 8 months of your boyfriend absolutely knowing he was second best to the other guy. His refusal to give up on this "friendship" is because he will never put you first again. Because deep in his heart he knows he isn't first is he?

 

I'm curious why are you with him?

 

Why did you cheat on him?

 

Even after he knew you continued with this man, why?

 

Where does your boyfriend stand in your life right now?

 

I'm thinking it's best for you both to go your separate ways. The damage has been done. Your BF clinging to this girl is proof of that.

[ComingInHot]

Kerino, you cheated, lied & betrayed, he kicked you out.

 

He has cheated (EA), lied & betrayed, You kick him out.

 

Ask him this, "Do you have a problem with Me talking and occasionally meeting w/some man who Makes Me Feel Good? If so, then great keep on w/this chick & I'll do the same. We just won't be together."*

[BetrayedH]

Do two wrongs make a right? No.

 

He's putting his friendship with another woman ahead of his relationship with his GF. That's nothing but dysfunctional. Stop accepting it.

 

Normally I would advise you to issue a "no contact" ultimatum. But he's refused that. Look up 'the 180' and implement it until such time as he agrees to give up other women. If you live together, someone moves out. No bargaining. Just as your ethical choices were to fix the relationship or leave, so are his.

 

Your consequence for having an affair might be to lose the relationship but don't accept being cheated on. Prioritizing a 'friendship' with another woman is doing just that.

[Stillscared]

Forget for a moment you had an affair. Is it fair for him to have a female friend? Maybe it is.

 

Years ago, I had a best male/married friend at work (truly platonic for both of us). And to make sure my husband didn't feel threatened by my friend, I insisted they meet. They met and found a love for golf in common. To this day, they golf together most weekends and are best friends. Yes, sometimes I'm jealous that my best friend at work became his best friend at home, (ha, I only get invited out maybe once a year with them these days!).

 

If he likes this woman and feels safe with her, maybe you will like her too. It doesn't sound like he's having an affair, but it's important his 'friendship' come into the light, and not be a secret clandestine activity.

 

Meanwhile, it sounds like you two need Marriage Counseling. You're dealing with a lot on your own, and probably doing more damage in the process.

 

I may be off base, but I say, it's time you meet his new BFF.

[oldshirt]

Hey all. December will be 8 years with my current boyfriend.

 

 

This is really all I needed to hear^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

Unless you were 15 when you started dating, there is no reason to drag this on. You guys are simply not right for each other and this R probably should have died a natural death 7 years ago.

 

You two have dragged on this R for years just because it was convenient and was giving you some kind of sense of security and status quo.

 

You found someone else and basically walked away from the R and then when that didn't work out, he was your safety net and familiar place to return to.

 

Some part of him also realizes that you two are not the right match for each other, otherwise he would have proposed years and years ago and tried to move the R forward.

 

He too is caught up in the inertia and the status quo and wants to keep you around as his safety net too. He is unwilling and probably simply not wanting to let this other gal go because he probably feels a connection and compatability there but she is long distance and you are there in the here and now.

 

IMHO you both need to cut the umbilical cord to each other and both of you move on. You don't have to hate each other. You don't have to have bitterness and resentment and no one has to do anything bad for you guys to call it done and move on.

 

You both probably have some insecurities and some self-doubts and have become so accustomed to each other that you feel that you won't be able to find someone else but that is a completely false and misdirected feeling.

 

your therapist has said that your R is recoverable. Maybe from a therapists standpoint that is true but that doesn't always mean that reconciliation is the right thing to do.

 

I am kind of looking into my own chrystal ball here but I think even if you do did get back together, it would just be a matter of time before one of you met someone else and completely nuked this relationship from orbit and walked away from in the course of a weekend.

 

In other words, the feeling I am getting here is if you did get back together, it would just be for comfort, convenience and predictability and then one day one of you will meet someone on a Friday night and by Sunday evening will be packing their bags while the other stands there bewildered.

 

The question you need to ask yourself is do you want live in a state of low satisfaction, low joy and just kind of keep marking time until that day comes? Or would you rather start working on an amicable dissolution now and work on cleaning your slate and getting your own house in order so when each of you does meet the right one you are each of you are able to do that without all the pain and drama and baggage of a scorched earth when it happens?

[road]

Forget for a moment you had an affair. Is it fair for him to have a female friend? Maybe it is.

 

Years ago, I had a best male/married friend at work (truly platonic for both of us). And to make sure my husband didn't feel threatened by my friend, I insisted they meet. They met and found a love for golf in common. To this day, they golf together most weekends and are best friends. Yes, sometimes I'm jealous that my best friend at work became his best friend at home, (ha, I only get invited out maybe once a year with them these days!).

 

If he likes this woman and feels safe with her, maybe you will like her too. It doesn't sound like he's having an affair, but it's important his 'friendship' come into the light, and not be a secret clandestine activity.

 

Meanwhile, it sounds like you two need Marriage Counseling. You're dealing with a lot on your own, and probably doing more damage in the process.

 

I may be off base, but I say, it's time you meet his new BFF.

 

 

How sad that you are aware of the high number of women that have hid their OM under their BH's nose. Oh OM is just a good friend. You would like him.

 

BH befriends the OM they pal around. WW gets to invite OM to family parties, celebrations, holidays. WW affair has now become more fulfilling. She has more contact OM then she could ever imagine.

[aliveagain]

As a guy I can tell you your rejection of him while banging your affair partner for 8 months is hard to overcome. You totally replaced your boyfriend with affair partner, he is thinking about that hard. The reason he doesn't want to give her up is simple, in his mind she is trustworthy, you are not. Just my opinion here but I think he is thinking of replacing you with her and the more you push him to dump her the more likely that will happen. You need to convince him you are still the right choice even with the infidelity. Offer him a postnuptial agreement giving up your rights to shared equities if you break up because of another infidelity. That may help him feel safe with you again. To most men the exchanging of bodily fluids with a predator that you brought into the relationship is harder to overcome than the emotional aspect. You need to neutralize that imbalance, he hasn't had sex with anyone else, you have, he may never be able to overcome that.

[Zenstudent]

How sad that you are aware of the high number of women that have hid their OM under their BH's nose. Oh OM is just a good friend. You would like him.

 

BH befriends the OM they pal around. WW gets to invite OM to family parties, celebrations, holidays. WW affair has now become more fulfilling. She has more contact OM then she could ever imagine.

This is my story, described to a T. It makes everything worse ans so much more humiliating. So I wouldn't invite her in as a tool for recovery either.

[GypsumSatellite]

While I understand you two have been together a long time... several factors played into you cheating on him first. Loss of your father, unfulfilling job situation and the looming problems within your R with your BF - they aren't just your fault it's a 50/50 split there. Those are issues that should be worked on in counseling first.

 

Furthermore, you two are not together in a way that nurtures you both. You both may think you're still BF/GF, but he has seen other women in retaliation for your initial affair and still talks every day with 'just a friend'. My MM talks to me everyday, too. I've met some of his family as his 'friend'. I'm not just a friend. Never believe someone when they hide a person from you and dismiss them as merely a friend. They are lying.

 

A guy typically doesn't take a female 'friend' home to his mother's house behind his GFs back. Is his mother still aware you two are dating? If she isn't, this 'friend' may have been presented as the new GF. A guy also typically doesn't hide such a close female friend from his GF if nothing's going on. That he feels he has to lie to you about meeting her 2x, talking every day, and so on presents the very real fact he is emotionally separated from you.

 

My advice is one I gave myself when one of my first BFs struck up 'just a friend' with another woman and hid it from me for a long time. Tell him you won't be the third in your relationship with him. It doesn't matter if you cheated first - you don't have to put up with it coming from him, just as he shouldn't have put up with it out of you. You can move on.

 

Can men and women be friends? Sure, but only when all partners are out in the open and boundaries are maintained.

 

You both can find compatible partners in other people. You don't have to stay together because you have such a long history and it doesn't make either of you a failure if you don't reconcile this relationship. It means the relationship hit the wall and you both can move on to find what else lies out there. Relationships ARE work, but you have to know when to bow out of a dead one, too. You can't keep throwing bandages on it hoping it'll stay glued.

[Kate9292]

If he took you back, he can't plot revenge on you using his female friends.

 

If he cannot truly forgive you and just be with you regardless, you are better off without him.

[aliveagain]

Two years ago I had an affair. He found out, threw me out of the house, then wanted me back. The affair went on for about 8 months all the while my boyfriend wanting me back. While I was off screwing around (with quite possibly the absolute worst person for me), my bf went to online dating. He met some women, went on a few dates with a local one and struck up a phone friendship with another out of state.

 

This is another issue you need to help him get over if you want this relationship to work out. You chose someone you both knew was wrong for you over him, as you say: "quite possibly the worst person for me." Yet you stayed with O/M for 8 months knowing this, why? This is a real hit to your boyfriends ego. While you were kicking the crap out of his manhood, his new friend was there building him back up. He doesn't want to loose that, you haven't replaced that building his ego part that is missing in your relationship yet. Until you do he is going to hang on to her.

Edited November 3, 2013 by aliveagain

[miguelcervantes]

There are a number of things that need to be addressed and here they are:

 

1. You had a full blown EA and PA with another man and effectively emascualated your husband in the worst way. This has never been dealt with properly. You decided you wanted to end it and come back but in real life it is never that simple. Does your husband believe that he has the full truth ? Is he absolutely sure that you do not still have feelings for the OM and also sure that you have NC with the OM ? Does he feel that you are genuinely remorseful and have demonstrated this through your actions and not just words ? Basically this does not appear to have been dealt with properly and is still an "open" issue.
   
2. Then there is the issue of him getting into extra marital activity while you were in your affair and instead of focussing on dealing with your affair, he started up some new issues which were destructive to you both. Again this can never be dealt with properly until he dealt with your affair first. So now you have next to no chance of closing down your affair properly while he is still talking to these other women. Note I am not talking abour reconciliation here, I am talking about closing down your affair properly.
   
3. There is also the issue of not knowing what led you to the affair in the first place (without rewriting marital history or blameshifting). Again, without the previous two points being addressed this cannot be addressed. It is likely that if you had to deal with this you both would need to remedy certain behaviours (but only if the previous two points were addressed).
   
4. There seems to be no clarity on whether you both have really decided to come back to this relationship and reconcile or divorce. This is limbo land which will only make it impossible to address the previous three points. Also you both would need to clearly understand why you would R or D.
   

 

Bottom line, decide if you want to R or not. If so, he has to understand why he is doing it (and so do you) and then go completely NC with all other women. Next you have to be completely transparent with him (as he has to do with you) and need to give full disclosure (including details, timeline or whatever he wants). You then need to show real remorse in your actions and work on repairing this. He would have to do some of this too (since he started to go astray too). Finally, what ever you decide to do you need to start repairing yourselves and get a better understanding of why this all started in the first place.

 

There is no real hope for this if you carry on as is.