Are all guys inherently jerks?

[ltjg45]

Most men don't hate marriage. Many have just decided that the risk isn't worth it. It's not monogamy or commitment that most men have a problem with. They what faces them if things don't work out and it scares the crap of them.

 

One of my goals was to get married. I had it up there at the top alongside me becoming an accountant in my list of goals in my life. But as I grow older, I also have less reason to believe that even if I were to get married that I would be happy with the decision. Now I have to be so certain in her so much to commit for marriage and that can take years.

 

Needless to say, I will be fine if I don't get married anytime soon, if at all. Too many risks, not enough rewards especially if I'm putting my income at risk which I got by myself.

[Titania22]

Have you considered asking people you know in real life for advice? These people know you and see you interact with people. Maybe ask your exes (if you still get along with them).

 

I don't know anyone well in real life anymore. Except my kids and they wouldn't know. In the past I would have asked my girlfriend, but since she is dead now, I can't very well do that.

 

I don't speak to either of my exes.

 

Mostly I people are more acquaintances, and no one really knows me. I was always that kids with only 1 friend.

 

The one thing my daughter remarked on with me and this recent guy, was that we talk(ed) to each other like we are teenagers. I am not really sure what she means by that.

 

Even when I was in relationships, we never socialised with other couples.

[lino]

Be honest guys and really look at your own behaviour, are there any guys that don't do the disappearing act after you feel like you've got the girl?

 

 

There are many who don't do it, they're the ones you and your daughter will keep as friends and friends only. The nicer guys that you and her don't like 'in that way'

 

 

'Most men don't hate marriage. Many have just decided that the risk isn't worth it. It's not monogamy or commitment that most men have a problem with. They what faces them if things don't work out and it scares the crap of them.'

 

 

I've been with my girl now for nearly 4 years and I love the idea of marrying her but am scared to death of how she might change once that happens.

 

 

Of the people around me in my generation, only 3 couples are genuinely happily married. The rest are either divorced or living through miserable 'settling' marriages.

 

 

Ending up like either of the latter is my biggest nightmare.

[Titania22]

There are many who don't do it, they're the ones you and your daughter will keep as friends and friends only. The nicer guys that you and her don't like 'in that way'

 

 

 

No actually in my case what set this new guy apart from all my other friends is he was the super nicest. I am not like the stereotype woman that doesn't like guys being too nice. But I guess the difference is it's nice and upbeat, not nice and whiny/complainy.

 

Nice and friendly is like catnip to me.

[RedRobin]

Hey Guys,

 

I haven't read the new posts just yet, I will after this.

 

I was thinking long and hard about what it is about me that has set up this treatment, and I think I might have found it.

 

Let me know if you think I've hit the nail on the head.

 

I found myself thinking about what it is that I pick one man over another, and I worked out it's like having the right lottery ticket. If a guy just happens to behave in the right way, then I choose him and if he doesn't I don't. The men never actually feel like they have to earn my affections, in the same way a person will win the lottery just for having the right ticket.

 

I don't think the guys are bad or all the same. In fact all the guys I have been interested in seem to have absolutely nothing in common. But if guys only value that which they feel they have earned, and I never give any man the feeling he has to earn me, then that would lead to similarities in behaviour between all the men. Other behaviour that could be explained by this are the fact that in both men I had LTR's with, ended up quitting their jobs, and didn't start working again until the relationships ended.

 

Another thing that was going around in my head, was once a guy approached me because he was so attracted to my energy and body language that he just had to talk to me (his words). After a few minutes he said something I didn't expect to hear, which was, 'most men would love having you as a girlfriend, you're so low maintenance'. It puzzled, not only because I don't know that I am, but because it seemed like such an odd thing to observe after such a short time. And something quite a few guys have said including my exH when we met, 'you're such a cheap date'.

 

I site these things because I think they give clues to where exactly I am going wrong.

 

What do you guys think? Do you think I have found the behaviour that is causing the men I meet to behave in these ways?

 

I've had men say the same things to me. That I'm low maintenance and a cheap date.

 

When they say that, I take that as a sign of incompatibility, because it shows they don't value the same things as me or they have negative views about women.

 

As many people here can attest to, I have very high standards when it comes to actions of love and care, honesty, and authenticity. I just don't attach that to money... and especially not on expensive dates.

 

If I make any demands at all on a man, it is those qualities above. He should offer whatever it is he has to offer authentically and from the heart. Not because he has to 'win' me over... but because he wants a partner who shares his values, he wants true intimacy.

[Titania22]

Thankyou RedRobin, that was a lovely post, and so well spoken.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I agree RR. I am very low maintenance when it comes to money, dates and gifts. When it comes to integrity, trust and genuine care - I am very high maintenance.

[happydate]

Men hate marriage because they will most likely be cheated on and/or divorced. Then they will lose their assets and their children. Plus, most women will have sex very easily. What's the point?

 

As I tell my friends IRL, don't get married unless you want to have children. And don't rely on prenups (they are oftentimes thrown out in court and won't help you all that much anyway).

 

The reason many of these men were cheated on and or divorced were because of one simple reason. When they first date their women; they rode on a fantasy train. They dated women who were ambivalent towards them. The iffy, washy, no sure oh I'll be in love with you eventually attitude. NOT! Women who are ambivalent towards their men are going to divorce or cheat on them anyhow, no matter how much you try.

 

Those women who really know what they want, took risks and date the men for whom they really are can TRULY find the magic behind each one of them. Today's women date by comparison. Let's see if this guy is better than my other exes. The society promotes "keeping up with the Jones" mentality. But what are you keeping up to? Keeping up with your image, your ego and how you want to impress others?

 

People who are attached to material possessions and want to own a person are by themselves insecure. You take all those material possessions and the people they OWNED, and they are left with nothing. Insecurity will then show

in all its ugly glory. Which is why there are so many divorces or cheating going on. It's only human nature we do this. Revenge and punishment for the things we accuse people of when we lost it.

 

A person who knows who he or she is, loves him or herself will always be secure in knowing that at the end of the day when all his or her possessions are gone, that person will still be happy and content being alone.

 

Everyone of us will face this closer to the day we die. Our loved ones will depart from us and our material possessions become insignificant. Besides, you can't even take them with you when you die!! If you are still clung to these fantasies, then you will not find happiness from anything and from anyone. It's best for that person to discover him or herself first, heal and then date.

 

Too many people jump into another relationship because they can't be alone. That's why the causes of the divorces are people who dump each other because they are things that had outlived their usefulness and not real human beings.

Edited November 4, 2013 by happydate

[happydate]

Hey Guys,

 

I haven't read the new posts just yet, I will after this.

 

I was thinking long and hard about what it is about me that has set up this treatment, and I think I might have found it.

 

Let me know if you think I've hit the nail on the head.

 

I found myself thinking about what it is that I pick one man over another, and I worked out it's like having the right lottery ticket. If a guy just happens to behave in the right way, then I choose him and if he doesn't I don't. The men never actually feel like they have to earn my affections, in the same way a person will win the lottery just for having the right ticket.

 

I don't think the guys are bad or all the same. In fact all the guys I have been interested in seem to have absolutely nothing in common. But if guys only value that which they feel they have earned, and I never give any man the feeling he has to earn me, then that would lead to similarities in behaviour between all the men. Other behaviour that could be explained by this are the fact that in both men I had LTR's with, ended up quitting their jobs, and didn't start working again until the relationships ended.

 

Another thing that was going around in my head, was once a guy approached me because he was so attracted to my energy and body language that he just had to talk to me (his words). After a few minutes he said something I didn't expect to hear, which was, 'most men would love having you as a girlfriend, you're so low maintenance'. It puzzled, not only because I don't know that I am, but because it seemed like such an odd thing to observe after such a short time. And something quite a few guys have said including my exH when we met, 'you're such a cheap date'.

 

I site these things because I think they give clues to where exactly I am going wrong.

 

What do you guys think? Do you think I have found the behaviour that is causing the men I meet to behave in these ways?

 

The reason you are comfortable with these men is because, they possess some of the qualities of your father. We tend to date our parents. For a woman, she dates someone like her dad and for a man, he tends to date someone like her mother. This is the truth, because for the first 10 years or so, you had no choice but be manipulated by your dad and mother to conform to a certain image they want to conform. You had no say in it. You had no choice in that. How could you. This is the same with your daughter. She had no say who see wants to be nor she had a choice in that when she was a baby. You were just doing what you know to teach her to be an image of yourself.

 

Most of us have imperfect parents with some psychological imbalances. These imbalances may be acceptable in your parent's era, but is no longer acceptable in this century. So we must change and grow BEYOND our parents. Too many people assumed that what their parents did were right and they lasted 40 to 50 years so that means I must follow them.

 

Do you see Sears or Safeway doing well these days? I believe there are no Sears and Safeway in Australia? Seemed like they are a dying breed. Just because you were doing fantastic in the past does not mean you will survive and do well marketing yourself to the new generation. A dying business is due to the lack of growth, lack of change. What's the point of these businesses that keep attracting the old crowd and not the new crowd?!? McDonald had to change and offer healthy foods in order for them to continue to be successful! Change is inevitable!

 

The reason you are attracting these guys is because, you are comfortable with them like they are to you. But you must transcend beyond that and find someone who you are NOT comfortable with. Someone who can literally push your buttons and grow and in return, you can push his buttons.

 

And here comes your answer to low maintenance. The reason you're low maintenance is that, there is nothing for you to push his buttons and neither does he have on you. To make him alert and nothing to make him interested in you. You are not a challenge to him and so he gets bored easily. But you picked him because you need a man. You see the problem here?

 

The problem is that, you are hunting for a man and you change your appearances like a chameleon to suit what he is looking for. But deep down, he finds out you're nothing what he's looking for. You're not special to him and you don't excite him. He does not have to work hard to challenge himself to enjoy your character and to find out more inside of you. When you guys clicked and have a lot to share, you will see that he will be pre-occupied with you to pursue goals and inspirations together while challenging each other. Sex is just the icing not the means to love.

 

Right now, you have nothing to offer on the table for him. I think so far, you're still great beautiful looking. But people age you know, so you wonder why in the world that even old people like 50 and 60 years old go and date and fall in love. Certainly, the looks and sex aren't going to be as fantastic as you were 20 years younger. But what hasn't changed?

 

The treasure inside of you never ages, never grow old. In fact, it grows richer in wealth, wisdom, love and care as you age. Do you think if you can offer this to a man, a man will then say, you're a cheap date and you are low maintenance. He won't. Same with me with a good woman who is not damaged.

I'm more mesmerized by what she has to offer deep inside of her that I don't think about sex. I think about who I could be with her for the rest of my LIFE! That's not a sign of a man treating a woman like a cheap date and low maintenance don't you think? Can be high maintenance if I fear I slack off a bit, some other man might take her! And she knows it, cause she has something inside of her I want.

 

Replicate that in life and you will see a difference.

Edited November 4, 2013 by happydate

[heartshaped]

Above all, I think dating (and life in general) is a numbers game. Most people aren't going to settle down with the first person they go on a date with much like most people don't work at their first jobs the entirety of their lives.

 

However, when you attract bad apple after bad apple it begins to be a pattern.

 

I think your standards are too low. Also, you cannot base whether or not someone would be a good relationship partner on what type of friend someone is to you. Friendships and relationships are completely different things. It's like saying you will enjoy this apple because the orange you ate beforehand was sweet.

[Keenly]

No monogamy scares most men. Being tied down to the same woman and not getting some variety is the reason why men hate marriage. Oh, and its not the 1800's and men actually have to contribute today rather than have a slave as wife. Most men dont like equality because they cannot have all the power and control. Most of the married men I know that complain its one of these two reasons.

 

Careful , your bitterness is showing.

 

 

 

 

To answer the question posed in the thread title, no , were not inherently jerks. Some yes, most are made this way.

 

 

I'm certainly not a jerk when it comes to people I care about. ( what? Keenly? No way!) I'm actually a giant empathetic Teddy Bear so to speak.

 

 

The problem is I've been cheated on, taken advantage of, tricked, manipulated, bailed on, hung out to dry, and thrown under the bus so many times in my life that I just don't trust anyone anymore. I can't afford to. My heart can not take anymore use as a punching bag.

 

 

Defense mechanism.

[Titania22]

The reason you are comfortable with these men is because, they possess some of the qualities of your father. We tend to date our parents. For a woman, she dates someone like her dad and for a man, he tends to date someone like her mother. This is the truth, because for the first 10 years or so, you had no choice but be manipulated by your dad and mother to conform to a certain image they want to conform. You had no say in it. You had no choice in that. How could you. This is the same with your daughter. She had no say who see wants to be nor she had a choice in that when she was a baby. You were just doing what you know to teach her to be an image of yourself.

 

Most of us have imperfect parents with some psychological imbalances. These imbalances may be acceptable in your parent's era, but is no longer acceptable in this century. So we must change and grow BEYOND our parents. Too many people assumed that what their parents did were right and they lasted 40 to 50 years so that means I must follow them.

 

Do you see Sears or Safeway doing well these days? I believe there are no Sears and Safeway in Australia? Seemed like they are a dying breed. Just because you were doing fantastic in the past does not mean you will survive and do well marketing yourself to the new generation. A dying business is due to the lack of growth, lack of change. What's the point of these businesses that keep attracting the old crowd and not the new crowd?!? McDonald had to change and offer healthy foods in order for them to continue to be successful! Change is inevitable!

 

The reason you are attracting these guys is because, you are comfortable with them like they are to you. But you must transcend beyond that and find someone who you are NOT comfortable with. Someone who can literally push your buttons and grow and in return, you can push his buttons.

 

And here comes your answer to low maintenance. The reason you're low maintenance is that, there is nothing for you to push his buttons and neither does he have on you. To make him alert and nothing to make him interested in you. You are not a challenge to him and so he gets bored easily. But you picked him because you need a man. You see the problem here?

 

The problem is that, you are hunting for a man and you change your appearances like a chameleon to suit what he is looking for. But deep down, he finds out you're nothing what he's looking for. You're not special to him and you don't excite him. He does not have to work hard to challenge himself to enjoy your character and to find out more inside of you. When you guys clicked and have a lot to share, you will see that he will be pre-occupied with you to pursue goals and inspirations together while challenging each other. Sex is just the icing not the means to love.

 

Right now, you have nothing to offer on the table for him. I think so far, you're still great beautiful looking. But people age you know, so you wonder why in the world that even old people like 50 and 60 years old go and date and fall in love. Certainly, the looks and sex aren't going to be as fantastic as you were 20 years younger. But what hasn't changed?

 

The treasure inside of you never ages, never grow old. In fact, it grows richer in wealth, wisdom, love and care as you age. Do you think if you can offer this to a man, a man will then say, you're a cheap date and you are low maintenance. He won't. Same with me with a good woman who is not damaged.

I'm more mesmerized by what she has to offer deep inside of her that I don't think about sex. I think about who I could be with her for the rest of my LIFE! That's not a sign of a man treating a woman like a cheap date and low maintenance don't you think? Can be high maintenance if I fear I slack off a bit, some other man might take her! And she knows it, cause she has something inside of her I want.

 

Replicate that in life and you will see a difference.

 

You assume too much, and I find many of your assumption quite offensive in this post.

 

1st) I avoid men like my father, who was domineering, and I thought my mum was weak for staying with a man that would treat her so poorly. That's not to say he was abusive in the 'i beat my wife' sense. But he was full on the 'director personality type from those personality tests. I hate that personality type with a vengence.

 

2nd) Sure no baby has a choice over their waredrobe etc, but as a little girl me daughter had plenty of control over what she would and wouldn't wear. More so with every year. But I will accept I had a huge effect on what she was exposed to, so I tried to expose to lots of different world view, and school of thought so she could find her own truths. I completely broke from the mold of all the other ways I see kids raised.

 

3rd)Of course we are all imperfect parent and imperfect people and chiange is inevitable. I don't disagree with you on this point. I don't know when in my thread I gave you the idea I was against change.

 

4th)I don't hunt for men, and I don't change my appearance to suit them. I am living a completely celibate life these days, I never date or look for dates, and I am completely comfortable being exactly who I am (which is probably part of why I am attracting the same situation).

 

5th)Are you saying the sex at 60 isn't going to be as good as it was at 40, or are you saying sex with me at my current age isn't going to be as good at my current age? If the former I wouldn't know because I am not that old yet, if the latter, then your statement is just wrong. Sex with me now is much much better than sex with me 20yrs ago, when I hated it, had no labido, and it hurt everytime (not the good sort of hurting).

 

6th)Your last 2 paragraphs. I know exactly what you mean. My best ever guy friend, who died, saw me like how you described in those paragraphs. We never so much as kissed. It was a very special friendship, and the only reason I didn't turn into man hating woman. And in fact all the things ruby slippers describes about how men treat her, is how he treated me. It is a pleasant reminder. But also a factor in my OP confusing a mans disappearing with the occurrence of sexual activity. Since my best example of a man is one that never crossed that line (nor was I open to that at that point in my life).

[Titania22]

Update: To close off the story and let everyone know how things turned out.

 

He finally spoke to me. I was strong. He apologised. He said he thought I knew was going to be away. I said I didn't. I made it clear that I wasn't going to stay with someone who wouldn't take 30secs, to let me know before he disappeared. He apologised again.

 

Then we had a little somber talk expressing how we feel about each other, and he did the mature thing, and broke it off due to the distance. We now know that we really like each other, and would really like to be together. But he is stuck in a 4yr contract with his work, and I am stuck here for 3 more years while my son finishes growing up. So we have agreed to go back to just being friends, and just wait and see what happens in the future.

 

He said he had been thinking about me over the weekend, and it made him feel happy and also sad, because he really likes me, and is sad that I couldn't be there with him.

 

As somber as this is, I feel like it is the best possible outcome that could have happened. I don't think he was being a jerk, I just think he was being dumb (assuming I would know what's up without being told). It feels good that the reason it didn't work out was NOT my age. It makes me love American men all the more.

 

I want to thank everyone for taking this journey with me. I know I was emotionally distraught throughout this thread, and all my posts would have been coloured by that.

 

Have a good night or day everyone, and good luck with your own love lives.

[Woggle]

No monogamy scares most men. Being tied down to the same woman and not getting some variety is the reason why men hate marriage. Oh, and its not the 1800's and men actually have to contribute today rather than have a slave as wife. Most men dont like equality because they cannot have all the power and control. Most of the married men I know that complain its one of these two reasons.

 

You are so wrong it isn't funny but whatever. I love being married to my current wife and I have no need for variety. The reason I was miserable in my other marriage was the 24/7 drama and being wrong no matter what I did.

[felicity1]

[QUOTE=Titania22;5313846]Hey guys,

 

The pattern we have been noticing is that it seems after a guy ejaculates (not specifying how, sex or not) he seems to lose interest and does a disappearing act. /QUOTE]

 

I've had many guys flirt at me like crazy just to get my number, but never hear from them. It doesn't even get to the ejaculation bit!!

[Shepp]

Shepp and anyone else who was really upset by the thread title, sorry.

Perhaps I should have more accurately called it, 'Most men act like jerks once in a while!' Surely you wouldn't disagree with that, just as I wouldn't disagree with a title 'Most women act like bitches once in a while!' We aren't perfect and I was in a very bad emotional state when I started the thread. Instead of looking at this thread as a huge affront to your manhood, perhaps you would consider it a scream for help, which is what it essentially is.

 

I would to be honest because you cant make sweeping judgments about people you don't know, I would never be so arrogant as to say All women or most women or even 50% of women were anything. If you want an accurate title then you should of tried "most men I date act like jerks once in a while'

 

Because that's the problem

 

Im not saying I cant be a git to my girlfriend sometime, of course I can, but that is very very different from doing a runner on a girl after ejaculating - that's not a huge affront to my manhood its a huge affront to my character and that's what I don't like at all!...

 

Its not even relevant - the way I treat girls isn't relevant to your problem, nor is the way the majority of the male population behave - its not their fault what guy you choose to date, its not even the fault of your ex's, they entitled to be themselves and behave as they want - you chose them - if you don't like the way they behave then you should choose someone different.

 

If you want a different out come then choose a different guy - simple as that!

Brand them all with the all guys are jerks brush and any guy with some decent values about him will run a mile because he wouldn't put up with being likened to a robot who can only behave in one way!

[salparadise]

To Everybody out there, I know the problem is me not men, but I don't know what it is I am doing.

 

Right, you won't find the answer in cranking up the cynicism, and seeing romantic love as an antagonistic contest between the genders. It's as much about being the right person as finding the right person. Dissolving the barriers within. Healing, acceptance, mindfulness. The barriers are invariably about our wounded inner child and the fear of being vulnerable. You have to heal enough (perhaps in therapy) to face the fear and open yourself completely to the possibility.

 

Two books I'd recommend-

"Getting the Love You Want" by Harville Hendricks

"How to be an Adult in Relationships: Five Keys to Mindful Loving" by David Richo

 

 

The five keys are: attention, acceptance, appreciation, affection, and allowing.

[Ruby Slippers]

Great post, sal!

 

It's as much about being the right person as finding the right person.

I think being the right person is 95% of it - being self-respecting and taking good care of yourself. If you're truly doing that, no one can take advantage of you in a willing relationship. A self-respecting person who takes care of him/herself wouldn't stand for it.

[Revolver]

No. It's just that women let some guys can get away with being jerks more then other guys

 

This starts from a young age