Are all guys inherently jerks?

[StanMusial]

I'm a jerk sometimes. But not all the time. I never tried to be a jerk to get girls or anything I just get frustrated and impatient sometimes and get a little bit of tunnel vision.

[Ruby Slippers]

I also want to add that if a guy mistreats you even in a small way and you just let him get away with it, he will lose respect. You need to show what will and won't be tolerated. You need to show that you are even prepared to walk away. That's not even related to sex.

 

P.S. this is something that can't really be faked in long term. Your confidence needs to be in a place where you genuinely are prepared to walk away. Men can sense it if it's fake. Your attitude should be "I am awesome. If you don't see it, your loss. In fact I feel a bit sorry for you for losing such a fantastic person ;)"

EXACTLY.

 

You have to be so strong and comfortable with yourself that you simply don't tolerate even minor disrespect, and are ready to walk. Pretty much everybody responds well to this, because it communicates to them that you know who you are and what you want, and know you can get it, so won't put up with any disrespect.

 

I love Ruby and I'm glad she's back posting regularly again but I have to disagree about the online thing.

Well, thanks. Right back atcha, babe Reading your response and Titania's, I see that I am out of my element with online gaming communities.

 

But I do think that interacting more in the real world can be a good confidence builder and has its value, even for avid gamers.

[Nyla]

Not all but some people just to complain about things no matter what and complaining that all men are jerks is an example of that. From what I have experienced most times those who complain that all of the opposite sex is one way is really mad at themselves for being attracted to those types.

 

I can relate to that; I still haven't forgiven myself for being with two different *******s. One was from more than a decade ago and the other was more than five years. Now that I am with a good man, I can't forgive myself at all.

[Woggle]

I can relate to that; I still haven't forgiven myself for being with two different *******s. One was from more than a decade ago and the other was more than five years. Now that I am with a good man, I can't forgive myself at all.

 

Forgive yourself. You were able to admit your mistakes and actually learn from them. You are way ahead of many people.

[Nyla]

EXACTLY.

 

You have to be so strong and comfortable with yourself that you simply don't tolerate even minor disrespect, and are ready to walk. Pretty much everybody responds well to this, because it communicates to them that you know who you are and what you want, and know you can get it, so won't put up with any disrespect.

 

 

Well, thanks. Right back atcha, babe Reading your response and Titania's, I see that I am out of my element with online gaming communities.

 

But I do think that interacting more in the real world can be a good confidence builder and has its value, even for avid gamers.

 

You are so right! I am proud of myself for the times that I was able to walk away from idiots. I just wish I was able to do it with the two men that I mentioned. My husband went through a selfish phase when we were dating. I walked away and dated others. Once he realized that I wasn't going to put up with his nonsense and that I would move on, he treated me far better.

[Nyla]

Forgive yourself. You were able to admit your mistakes and actually learn from them. You are way ahead of many people.

 

*hug* I know Wogs. It's just that the guys were so ugly and stupid; I shouldn't have even looked at people like that.

 

I was too naïve and inexperienced. I also didn't like myself and those predators knew that.

 

Revenge made me feel a little better. I got both of them back in spades.

[RedRobin]

I think for men in general is that there is a surge of interest and motivation before they're intimate with a woman, and when relationships turn from friendly to romantic they tend to act differently because the expectations are different...there's no significant risk or commitment/investment emotionally before sex, but after sex men realize that the expectation will likely be there for something more, something deeper and if that man isn't particularly interested romantically/emotionally on that level then he will gravitate away...it's also a hurdle for men to get over the sexual aspect or tension of the relationship until that deed is done, then they actually think about how interested they are in the woman as whole, it's a hurdle for men to think clearly until they've been with that woman intimately...it's not that all men are necessarily sex driven beasts that are going to want more and more, it's the fact that men seem to be programmed to spread their seed, not necessarily stick around...there's got to be motivation or desperation to perpetuate that.

 

I've seen a lot of guys put in a lot of work and be the "nice guy" just to be intimate with a woman that they like, personally I don't understand why someone would put themselves through all of that, but it seems to be a lack of options and issues with their own insecurity...women do the same thing with men, sometimes they chase after unavailable men just to feel validated and good enough even though they know he's a jerk with a reputation....not because the guy is necessarily a great guy with great qualities or anything.

 

With jerks, women seem to gravitate towards them far more than the nice genuine guys...but even at the end of the day I think all men are capable of being a jerk, I honestly just believe it has to do with those men's options and their own abilities/self-esteem level/confidence/personality that all contribute to their behavior with women, they also can just lack empathy and awareness especially if not experienced with women....because it's not like there are any guys out there that don't want to be able to "get the girl", some can pull it off with a wide range of options, others can only dream of having those opportunities, most guys fall somewhere in the middle towards the dream side of things...their looks, charm, attitude and just general knowledge of women can make all the difference in their success or lack of resulting in their behavior so you can guess why one group of men might be cocky/confident while the other shy and always trying to do and say the right thing....a lot men don't have the above qualities, so they have to play other cards they have, they have to build a rapport, come off genuine, interested and really into you just to get anywhere, just to get a chance or their foot in the door....a guy who has options and is confident, isn't going to waste his time, he's just going to move onto the next.

 

A lot of men see sex as merely sex as well, not an overly emotional and attached thing...they're just there to get their needs met, which is partly why they may not react emotionally afterwards...and there's a lot of grey area for men, many are perfectly fine with pseudo relationships/fwb's type situations where no commitment or significant emotional expectations are involved, for men it's mostly the "right girl" at the end of the day, but more importantly timing as to when they're willing to settle down with someone and make the commitment...everyone else is kind of just an experience or inbetween, some men want to retain their independence and pursue their personal goals unless they don't have that option.

 

Men tend to respect men more than women because men hold you accountable and are more direct/confrontational, women can be very passive and play the doormat role, acting out emotionally rather than rationally, afraid to do or say anything that will upset the man and if they do it's emotional/sensitive or irate...men however have an understanding and won't tend to stick around with that kind of behavior or treatment unless again their options, confidence, self-esteem is lacking.

 

You have to try and determine before being intimate with men, if they're really looking for something long-term or just a casual thing...it's just a filtering process, trust your gut and always remember that male friends will sleep with you in most cases just to sleep with you if the opportunity were to present itself...it doesn't necessarily mean they were interested or even investing in something more, it doesn't mean they won't necessarily flirt or use sexual innuendos or romantic suave to poke at your love chords, men can do all those things just for the sake of the moment...and women definitely can too.

 

OP, I think Ninja's answer to your question, is yes. The people he describes ARE jerks. I don't particularly like how Ninja represents 'men' because that is not MY experience with good men... of whom I know plenty. Most of them married relatively young and are still happily married. Unfortunately, I, like you, are now left with those who are single and who still haven't learned their lesson... or are not motivated to do so.

 

Many women and certainly society doesn't require men to be particularly self-aware. The people Ninja describe are just those who aren't self-aware... who are liars (either to themselves and/or others) and manipulative. They wouldn't make good friends either.

 

You can fish through those types pretty easily. They need to be consistent in their words and actions. Not just with you. With everyone you observe them with. A non-jerk will not disappear. Even if things weren't compatible, he/she would communicate. Especially with someone whose feelings are important... regardless of romantic intent.

 

That's how you avoid becoming attached to the kind of guy Ninja describes.

 

My answer to the question?? Lots of people have very poor relationship and communication skills. Having sex with them doesn't change that. No matter how 'nice' they appear on the surface.

[Nyla]

I firmly believe that too many women think sex can keep a man around or make him fall in love. They agree to be FWBs while secretly hoping the man will develop deeper feelings. When the men treat them like booty calls, they become angry and shout that men are jerks.

 

Most men will let a woman know his intentions pretty early. It's just that some women refuse to pay attention to actions and words.

 

I dated another guy when my husband and I were dating and we broke up for a few months. I liked this guy and hoped to become exclusive at some point, even though I didn't tell him that because we needed to get to know each other better.

 

Some of this man's behavior made it obvious that he wasn't looking to get into a relationship for a long time. I wasn't going to waste time trying to get him to love me, so I walked away and never looked back. It was one of the best choices I ever made. I saved myself the heartache of pining after some man who didn't have the same relationship goals.

[eccentriclady]

Not all men disappear. Could be maybe they're not feeling something else and don't have to incentive/want to stay around.....or they do, but are afraid of their emotions. Women and men are such opposites, lol, its SO true but maybe we have such high expectations of guys and then (mis)label them alot.

[Titania22]

Alot has happened on here while I was sleeping.

 

And I know some of you are seriously upset with how I titled the thread, after a few years on here, I noticed the trend of which threads get the most attention. Judge me all you want for that, but this thread is packed with lots of great differing perspectives that can can help me get a better grip on what exactly is going wrong with me.

 

Thankyou Gaius and Eternal Sunshine for empowering me to speak up and have a go at him, assuming he ever returns. I wasn't going to put up with it, but I wasn't sure whether I should confront him or just completely banish him from my life. Banishment is what I usually go for, but obviously hasn't helped me grow and change my pattern of experience.

 

Stillafool, my daughter does want female friends and has been trying to make them, but none of them are invested and willing to make the effort she is to maintain a friendship with her. And at school she did subjects with classes that were almost entirely male.

 

Shepp and anyone else who was really upset by the thread title, sorry.

Perhaps I should have more accurately called it, 'Most men act like jerks once in a while!' Surely you wouldn't disagree with that, just as I wouldn't disagree with a title 'Most women act like bitches once in a while!' We aren't perfect and I was in a very bad emotional state when I started the thread. Instead of looking at this thread as a huge affront to your manhood, perhaps you would consider it a scream for help, which is what it essentially is.

 

Woggle, yes I am incredibly furious with myself.

 

Happydate, thankyou for the reminder, it's become glaringly obvious to me that there is some huge life lesson that I am not getting, and as the years go by and I am still not getting it, I am getting so frustrated with myself and my repetitive circumstance. The things that I am changed aren't helping me learn the lesson, but rather slowing down the process. And I swear I would learn the lesson, if I could actually comprehend what it is I am supposed to learn. There's something wrong with the way I behave, but I am too damn blind to see it. It's too simply to say welll your not confident enough. Hell, how many women you know who are confident enough to cold approach guys on the street and ask them out, because I have.

 

To Everybody out there, I know the problem is me not men, but I don't know what it is I am doing.

 

Ruby Slippers I am always ready to walk away, walk away has become what I am best at, but it hasn't actually changed what I am attracting. There has to be something between putting up with crap and walking away that I am just not getting. When I go into the real world and when I am online I present myself as confident, but also authentic. I don't put on aires and graces, what you see is what you get. Again I think I am missing something subtle, and it takes a really good friend to not only see that failure, but actually tell me so I can learn and grow.

 

RedRobin, what got me this time around, was that the guy was so consistent with his words and actions, with me and everyone else around. (Everyone seems to think he is a really nice guy.) That's why it was such a shock, and I reacted so badly to his disappearance (which is day5 now). A spoke to a friend, whose response was don't overreact, 'he might avoid me but he would never avoid StarCraft', and he hasn't been on the past 2days. (Burn!)

 

Nyla, I don't think sex makes men fall in love.

 

EccentricLady Unfortunately if I give any credence to him being afraid of his emotions, then I will get swept into a fantasy that he really does care for me, and that just won't do me any good at all.

 

Obviously I have alot of soul searching to do.

[happydate]

Tatiana,

 

Happydate, thankyou for the reminder, it's become glaringly obvious to me that there is some huge life lesson that I am not getting, and as the years go by and I am still not getting it, I am getting so frustrated with myself and my repetitive circumstance. The things that I am changed aren't helping me learn the lesson, but rather slowing down the process. And I swear I would learn the lesson, if I could actually comprehend what it is I am supposed to learn. There's something wrong with the way I behave, but I am too damn blind to see it. It's too simply to say welll your not confident enough. Hell, how many women you know who are confident enough to cold approach guys on the street and ask them out, because I have.

 

Here's my reply..

 

What I meant about confidence is inner confidence NOT the outer confidence. It is your inner confidence that is causing you to become insecure, clingy and needy. If you want to change this, you need to dig deep into your inner confidence issues. Issues about parents, things you did when you were a child that caused you to have distorted views and so forth and so on.

 

Sometimes though, other things can be beyond your control if you are not a spiritual person. What I meant by that is that, sometimes those inner confidence issues are of NOT your own doing, but the doings of others beyond this physical realm. This is something you need to explore.

 

There is a book that describes some of the issues we talked about. The book is called "Remarkable Healings" by Shakuntala Modi, M.D who is a board psychiatrist. You really need to have an OPEN mind to read this, but her cases and healings are real. I learned a ton from her and when I went for treatments by a medical professional, they were using similar treatments prescribed by Shakuntala Modi. The results just can not be explained away. It's that wierd. It works. When you are at the end of the rope, you need to seek other solutions, sometimes out of this world.

 

Have fun reading it!!

[Titania22]

happydate thankyou i will check it out/

 

Are you sure she's being completely honest with you? IME, girls of today are WAY worse than the guys.

 

Did you mean Am I sure he's being completely honest with you?

 

How can you ever know if someone is being completely honest with you today. Often I find people aren't be honest with themselves, in which case they aren't going to be honest with others.

 

I just take what people say at face value. I take mental note of things that's could be signs of the actual truth if it differs from the point they are making. For example if you were to say this is how I was, this is what happened, and as a result i now see things this way. I will take you at face value that you are changed, but I will make a mental note of how you were before and watch for signs, because change doesn't always stick no matter what our good intentions are.

 

I didn't mean to feel so out of control these past few days, I feel somewhat better now, even though technical I haven't resolved anything with the latest guy yet, as he is still MIA. I spoke to another friend yesterday, and he pretty much asked me not to un-friend the guy no matter what happens.

[Woggle]

A lot of people in my life have called me a jerk but in reality I am actually one of the most honest and trustworthy people you could meet and I am loyal to those who deserve it. I just call out BS when I see it and I don't tolerate people trying to walk all over me.

 

A lot of the people who complain that there are no good men wouldn't know one if he landed on their lap and they wouldn't know how to appreciate him.

[Woggle]

I know plenty of men who would jump in front of a bullet for their woman but I guess haters never notice that which does not fit their agenda.

[Woggle]

I am all about calling BS on the manhaters but that rape part is just sick.

[Woggle]

The only part of the US that is still matriarchal is divorce laws/custody laws.

 

Everything else, women deal with the vast majority of double standards.

 

Majority of men hate marriage today anyway, our society encourages it, so the first sentence doesn't matter much anymore anyway.

 

Most men don't hate marriage. Many have just decided that the risk isn't worth it. It's not monogamy or commitment that most men have a problem with. They what faces them if things don't work out and it scares the crap of them.

[Carenth]

Wow some broad brushes here on both sides.

 

Marriage for me I'm wary of because I saw how many of my friends families were torn apart by divorce or how unhappy their parents were trying to keep appearances up for the kids (even though the kids were very aware that their parents did not love each other anymore).

 

I'm also not really a fan of having to "stick it out" no matter what even if both parties want to kill each other. I think it's unhealthy to stay in a relationship that has turned toxic and that includes marriage. That is why I personally don't think marriage is for me or at least for the foreseeable future.

 

I think it's fair for either party to be able to leave if things are not working without having to be dragged through the legal hell that is divorce. I've noticed out of my friends who got married they became complacent thinking that the other person would never leave because it's such a pain to get a divorce. Only a few of my friends who got married young are still together.

 

This isn't a men vs women thing for me. I see marriage as a legal contract rather than an declaration of love. Many of these said friends only got married to "prove" their relationship was real, which I see as really short sighted and naive.

 

Also to the OP, quite simply no not all men are jerks. That has already been established though many times.

[Woggle]

I think cheating is about even but I do get sick of men getting the bad rap on it.

[Titania22]

Hey Guys,

 

I haven't read the new posts just yet, I will after this.

 

I was thinking long and hard about what it is about me that has set up this treatment, and I think I might have found it.

 

Let me know if you think I've hit the nail on the head.

 

I found myself thinking about what it is that I pick one man over another, and I worked out it's like having the right lottery ticket. If a guy just happens to behave in the right way, then I choose him and if he doesn't I don't. The men never actually feel like they have to earn my affections, in the same way a person will win the lottery just for having the right ticket.

 

I don't think the guys are bad or all the same. In fact all the guys I have been interested in seem to have absolutely nothing in common. But if guys only value that which they feel they have earned, and I never give any man the feeling he has to earn me, then that would lead to similarities in behaviour between all the men. Other behaviour that could be explained by this are the fact that in both men I had LTR's with, ended up quitting their jobs, and didn't start working again until the relationships ended.

 

Another thing that was going around in my head, was once a guy approached me because he was so attracted to my energy and body language that he just had to talk to me (his words). After a few minutes he said something I didn't expect to hear, which was, 'most men would love having you as a girlfriend, you're so low maintenance'. It puzzled, not only because I don't know that I am, but because it seemed like such an odd thing to observe after such a short time. And something quite a few guys have said including my exH when we met, 'you're such a cheap date'.

 

I site these things because I think they give clues to where exactly I am going wrong.

 

What do you guys think? Do you think I have found the behaviour that is causing the men I meet to behave in these ways?

[Woggle]

I know you don't want to hear this but on some subconcious level you are probably attracted to them. I used to be attracted to damaged women and that is what I attracted. When I started wanting a healthy woman I found one.

[OpheliaSong]

Titiana

That could be part of it. I always observe men d not want what they can get easily. if it is easy to get then they don't value it. part of their competitive nature.

[Titania22]

they wouldn't know how to appreciate him.

 

Actually the appreciation thing I am awesome at. I appreciate every little thing.

 

Also to the OP, quite simply no not all men are jerks. That has already been established though many times.

 

I find it interesting that the gender war broke out after a apologised for my thread title, and accepted that the problem here lies with me, and something in my behaviour.

[Woggle]

Actually the appreciation thing I am awesome at. I appreciate every little thing.

 

 

 

I find it interesting that the gender war broke out after a apologised for my thread title, and accepted that the problem here lies with me, and something in my behaviour.

 

You had to expect for that title to provoke something especially on this forum.

[Titania22]

There is a book that describes some of the issues we talked about. The book is called "Remarkable Healings" by Shakuntala Modi, M.D who is a board psychiatrist.

 

I just read the summary and it reminded me of the works of Stuart Wilde. Have you heard of him?

 

Titiana

That could be part of it. I always observe men d not want what they can get easily. if it is easy to get then they don't value it. part of their competitive nature.

 

I have heard that throughout my life, I just never operated like that. I don't even know how. But at least now I can be aware that my current model for choosing partners isn't based on them proving their merit, maybe I can work on changing that first.

[Titania22]

Personally, I haven't found this to be the case at all. I like who I like and I don't like who I don't like. It has nothing to do with "earning affection". I don't value women that I have to work for. I value women that show me respect.

 

Again, I can't speak for all men, but the "earning" business sounds like playing games. I HATE that. I think most guys would agree with me.

 

I always took that the same one you just have, and therefore resisted it. But let me ask you, if a wife expects her husband to mow the lawn, is that playing games? I think it's earning from the sense of people value the things they have worked for. Like as a kid what did you value more the thing your parents gave you, or the thing you saved up to buy for yourself. I don't particularly understand how this is supposed to translate to relationships, but I can at least recognise that there may be some truth to it from a psychological point of view.

 

See I wonder if you do do things for women, that you consciously don't class as earning affection, but subconsciously those tasks are fulfilling that role. Do you really value a woman who offers you everything without expecting reciprocation?

 

As far as the guys that don't work when you start dating, were they ambitious? Maybe you date lazy guys and that's the common denominator.

 

My exH now earns over $300K per year, so me thinks he might be ambitious. The exBF wasn't ambitious. He is living with his mum these days.

 

 

Low maintenance is definitely good. High maintenance is definitely bad.

 

Are you too picky? You may think you're not, but you actually may be. For example, I know a female doctor in her 40s. She's divorced with a child. She will ONLY date men over 6 feet and make more money than her. She thinks that she is being reasonable, but seriously, how many of those do you think there are to go around that aren't married and will date her (she's a bit overweight)? Make sure you're being realistic.

 

 

Well I asked myself this very question about 2yrs ago, and spent 2hrs with a guy that specialises in helping people have positive relationships. I did one of those lists where you write down 20traits you want in a partner, and then condense them to 10, 5 and then finally 3. In our 2hrs we talked about the traits i had chosen, so he could understand where I was coming from and then he said, 'you are not too picky, definitely don't lower your standards, you are not asking too much'.

 

So I feel pretty confident that I don't have any stupid desire, like a mans height or some such rubbish.