Are all guys inherently jerks?

[Titania22]

Hey guys,

 

I know the title is provocative, but let me explain.

 

Over the past 7 years, my experiences and my daughters experiences with men/boys have had a common theme.

 

We have tended to be friends with guys before anything else happens. Guys that come across really nice/friendly, seem to really enjoy our company, seem to really like us as people.

 

But then one day something happens, and the friendship turns to something more romantic, in my daughters case actual relationships. I haven't been so fortunate (if that's the right word) myself. The pattern we have been noticing is that it seems after a guy ejaculates (not specifying how, sex or not) he seems to lose interest and does a disappearing act. Sure he may come back, but it's seriously hurtful when a guy disappears off the planet for a minimum of 3days after he gets off. (Hence my use of the word jerk in the title).

 

All in all it seems like the fastest way to get rid of a guy is to bring sex (whether just talk or physical acts) into the friendship/relationship. In my daughters case she has had friendships lasting years.

 

Be honest guys and really look at your own behaviour, are there any guys that don't do the disappearing act after you feel like you've got the girl?

 

Personally if guys are so content after masturbating that they can go 3+ days without even wanting to contact the girl they are supposedly interested in, then I am getting the feeling that i have a much higher libido then most men. (I considered myself someone with a low libido.) When I am into someone my sexual desire goes off the charts.

 

Please chime in, because at this point I am losing all faith that it is even worth getting romantically involved with the male sex, and that even more depressing for my daughter since she is still so young and has so much she hasn't experienced yet.

[soccerrprp]

I don't do the "disappearing act." Have not. Things don't work out, but it's not b/c or in the manner you are illustrating.

 

So, the answer is no. Not ALL.

[Weezy1973]

Considering most adults are actually in committed, monogamous relationships (about 80% in North America, I suspect the number is higher in more traditional places) most men are not jerks in the way you describe.

 

I will say that just because a guy loses interest, doesn't mean he's a jerk - whether it's before ejaculating or after. It just means he didn't think it was a good match.

[Shepp]

No.

 

 

I know the title is provocative, but let me explain.

There's no "explination" you could ever give that would make our ludicrous(and somewhat offensive) fact true.

It's beyond ridiculous that you could even conceive in a a population of 6billion people that "all [gender, race, religion] are anything.

It's no different to saying "do all Christians hate apple juice".

This is pretty laughable to be honest!

 

Be honest guys and really look at your own behaviour, are there any guys that don't do the disappearing act after you feel like you've got the girl?

Obviously

[superb]

I think it's just a process of elimination. The right person will stick around for the right reasons. Dating is like this sometimes, feels like a lot of the time really but that's why holding out on sex or any sexual activity is smart. Get to know whether they're really into it...you....more than a friend. Men can have friends they have sex with....us women tend to read deeper into it.

[Titania22]

ok i get it my OP was extreme. I am feeling very emotional right now, I am sad and frustrated.

 

And I am not talking about a guy being a pushover or not aggressive. I am literally talking about guys disappearing for 3+ days, without any warning. Why will a guy let his friend know that he will be working and unavailable for a few days, but when they are involved romantically he will disappear without a word. Why do we get better treatment when we are platonic friends, but it goes out the window when we have become vulnerable.

 

It's not about controlling the guy, it's about not playing mind games.

 

And I hear you when you say that the guy realised that we weren't a good match, but why wouldn't a guy realise that during the long friendship. I am friends with lots of guys, and I can tell by the way the talk, and the things they say that I want nothing to do with them romantically. So if I find a friend who I am interested in after all that friendship stuff, I know I will like them, and the only thing left is really sexual compatibility. (So I totally get if I were to have sex with the guy and we weren't compatible, that it's over.) What I don't get is changing them their mind before we even get that far. Surely they could have known they weren't interested while we were just friends.

 

(Another reason this angers me so, is that I work hard to keep my libido under control. If I know there is no chance I am having sex anytime soon, I don't want to do anything that will get me aroused, because it is so hard to get satisfied without actual sex. So i definitely don't appreciate some guy getting me all worked up, just for his amusement.)

[xxoo]

If you are friends first, do you have an idea of their relationship history?

 

Are these men with a dating history that is compatible with the type of relationship you'd like to have?

[Titania22]

I think it's just a process of elimination. The right person will stick around for the right reasons. Dating is like this sometimes, feels like a lot of the time really but that's why holding out on sex or any sexual activity is smart. Get to know whether they're really into it...you....more than a friend. Men can have friends they have sex with....us women tend to read deeper into it.

 

Yeah but over here people don't generally date, in the way americans do.

 

In the case of a person being friends, and then the guys adding the sexual element. How do you negotiate those waters, to know the guy is really into you. This is something I have never gotten and obviously failing at. If you are friends and talk about your days together, play together, in contact almost every day for hours, and then he brings up the sex talk. Shutting him down right there seems to me like setting things back to just friendship. When the sex talking he brings up is all about what things he is into, sexual history, attitudes about sex, past experiences and how they have changed his attitudes to relationships, and he brings up how important monogamy is several times. What's my move then? I didn't shut the latest guy down because I was either into or curious about the things he was saying, and all through the friendship he behaved consistently . What would you have done at that point? Especially since I was already starting to have feelings for him, due to the closeness of the friendship.

 

BTW I agree with what you said, i just don't know what I should be doing at that transition point from friend to lover.

[Ninjainpajamas]

I think for men in general is that there is a surge of interest and motivation before they're intimate with a woman, and when relationships turn from friendly to romantic they tend to act differently because the expectations are different...there's no significant risk or commitment/investment emotionally before sex, but after sex men realize that the expectation will likely be there for something more, something deeper and if that man isn't particularly interested romantically/emotionally on that level then he will gravitate away...it's also a hurdle for men to get over the sexual aspect or tension of the relationship until that deed is done, then they actually think about how interested they are in the woman as whole, it's a hurdle for men to think clearly until they've been with that woman intimately...it's not that all men are necessarily sex driven beasts that are going to want more and more, it's the fact that men seem to be programmed to spread their seed, not necessarily stick around...there's got to be motivation or desperation to perpetuate that.

 

I've seen a lot of guys put in a lot of work and be the "nice guy" just to be intimate with a woman that they like, personally I don't understand why someone would put themselves through all of that, but it seems to be a lack of options and issues with their own insecurity...women do the same thing with men, sometimes they chase after unavailable men just to feel validated and good enough even though they know he's a jerk with a reputation....not because the guy is necessarily a great guy with great qualities or anything.

 

With jerks, women seem to gravitate towards them far more than the nice genuine guys...but even at the end of the day I think all men are capable of being a jerk, I honestly just believe it has to do with those men's options and their own abilities/self-esteem level/confidence/personality that all contribute to their behavior with women, they also can just lack empathy and awareness especially if not experienced with women....because it's not like there are any guys out there that don't want to be able to "get the girl", some can pull it off with a wide range of options, others can only dream of having those opportunities, most guys fall somewhere in the middle towards the dream side of things...their looks, charm, attitude and just general knowledge of women can make all the difference in their success or lack of resulting in their behavior so you can guess why one group of men might be cocky/confident while the other shy and always trying to do and say the right thing....a lot men don't have the above qualities, so they have to play other cards they have, they have to build a rapport, come off genuine, interested and really into you just to get anywhere, just to get a chance or their foot in the door....a guy who has options and is confident, isn't going to waste his time, he's just going to move onto the next.

 

A lot of men see sex as merely sex as well, not an overly emotional and attached thing...they're just there to get their needs met, which is partly why they may not react emotionally afterwards...and there's a lot of grey area for men, many are perfectly fine with pseudo relationships/fwb's type situations where no commitment or significant emotional expectations are involved, for men it's mostly the "right girl" at the end of the day, but more importantly timing as to when they're willing to settle down with someone and make the commitment...everyone else is kind of just an experience or inbetween, some men want to retain their independence and pursue their personal goals unless they don't have that option.

 

Men tend to respect men more than women because men hold you accountable and are more direct/confrontational, women can be very passive and play the doormat role, acting out emotionally rather than rationally, afraid to do or say anything that will upset the man and if they do it's emotional/sensitive or irate...men however have an understanding and won't tend to stick around with that kind of behavior or treatment unless again their options, confidence, self-esteem is lacking.

 

You have to try and determine before being intimate with men, if they're really looking for something long-term or just a casual thing...it's just a filtering process, trust your gut and always remember that male friends will sleep with you in most cases just to sleep with you if the opportunity were to present itself...it doesn't necessarily mean they were interested or even investing in something more, it doesn't mean they won't necessarily flirt or use sexual innuendos or romantic suave to poke at your love chords, men can do all those things just for the sake of the moment...and women definitely can too.

[superb]

I'm single after seven years of trying to figure men out....lol....I'm not sure my tactics are any good or valid at this point. I still stand by what I say when I say...make them wait...let them pursue you. Far as sexual drive goes, I'm keeping mine in check by self medicating so to speak and while it's not 100% fulfilling....it saves me the pain and confusion I have felt in the past by sleeping with men who weren't on the same page as me relationship wise.

[Titania22]

If you are friends first, do you have an idea of their relationship history?

 

Are these men with a dating history that is compatible with the type of relationship you'd like to have?

 

TBH in the past I have never really known about a guys relationship history. This is the first time I actually found out some details first. (So perhaps in and of itself that's personal growth.)

 

I wish i didn't get attached so fast.

 

In the case of my daughter, she and the boys have always been virgins, and she has always been the guys first girlfriend. She is super frustrated because she knows all her guy friends secretly want to be with her, and more than once the minute they knew she was all about them, they did this disappearing thing, she communicates her needs, they ignore her, she moves on, and they get all upset like 'how could she do this?', then they go back to being friends and hoping she will be interested. It's so stupid. She would love to have a friend that legitimately wanted to be her friend without an ulterior motive.

[Grumpybutfun]

Titania22:

Consider another viewpoint here...If you and your daughter are consistently attracting jerks, maybe you are teaching her behaviors or values that you believe in that limits interaction from nice, stable and men who have the same life goals as you do.

Just a thought,

Grumps

[xxoo]

If your daughter is young, I would be HAPPY that they are not getting serious and not having sex. What's the rush?

 

For you, yes, that is growth if you are asking harder questions before moving to sex. From your previous post, it sounds like this guy was thinking of turning a new leaf, and changing relationship patterns? Look for a guy who is not changing patterns, but has an actual history of committed relationships. A fully mature adult with a history of adult relationships.

[phineas]

I have zero clue why a guy who spent all that time being friends with her would bail after he got some.

 

From my point of view it seems like a massive headache to pull that kind of stunt.

I couldn't do it. too much drama between friends.

 

Either she is doing something to scare them off during/after or she doesn't really know these guys as well as she thinks she does.

[xxoo]

Encourage your daughter to shift her focus off of boys and onto her own life path. Tell her the boys need to mature, and will be more interested in her for the right reasons later. For now, she needs to accept that most of her male friends will desire sex with her, but that doesn't mean they want to be her boyfriend. She should just ignore the sex issue with her guy friends, unless real love blooms between her and someone along the way (and even then, sex should wait).

 

And anyone who blows hot and cold (not contacting for 3 days after lots of pursuit) needs to be distanced.

[lollipopspot]

"All guys" aren't any one thing. Nor are all females any one thing.

 

Was your father a jerk? Your daughter's father?

[Nyla]

Hey guys,

 

I know the title is provocative, but let me explain.

 

Over the past 7 years, my experiences and my daughters experiences with men/boys have had a common theme.

 

We have tended to be friends with guys before anything else happens. Guys that come across really nice/friendly, seem to really enjoy our company, seem to really like us as people.

 

But then one day something happens, and the friendship turns to something more romantic, in my daughters case actual relationships. I haven't been so fortunate (if that's the right word) myself. The pattern we have been noticing is that it seems after a guy ejaculates (not specifying how, sex or not) he seems to lose interest and does a disappearing act. Sure he may come back, but it's seriously hurtful when a guy disappears off the planet for a minimum of 3days after he gets off. (Hence my use of the word jerk in the title).

 

All in all it seems like the fastest way to get rid of a guy is to bring sex (whether just talk or physical acts) into the friendship/relationship. In my daughters case she has had friendships lasting years.

 

Be honest guys and really look at your own behaviour, are there any guys that don't do the disappearing act after you feel like you've got the girl?

 

Personally if guys are so content after masturbating that they can go 3+ days without even wanting to contact the girl they are supposedly interested in, then I am getting the feeling that i have a much higher libido then most men. (I considered myself someone with a low libido.) When I am into someone my sexual desire goes off the charts.

 

Please chime in, because at this point I am losing all faith that it is even worth getting romantically involved with the male sex, and that even more depressing for my daughter since she is still so young and has so much she hasn't experienced yet.

 

When I was single, I found that men usually changed for the worse after we slept together. It didn't matter if I slept with them quickly or waited a few months...most men became colder and meaner after they got sex. The good thing is, as soon as I noticed the change I would walk away before I got hurt even worse. I always did it in a rude or dismissive way to show the men how it feels to be disrespected after sex. I enjoyed hurting a man's feelings if he was nasty to me.

 

I don't want to say that all men are jerks because that would be sexist and ignorant. I believe that the vast majority of men only care about sex and they will act nice just to get it, only to disappear or become disrespectful after sex. The smart ones will keep being nice after sex in order to keep the sex coming. When a man is truly into a woman, the sex will bring them closer together. This is not something that happens very often in my opinion.

 

I waited six weeks to have sex with my husband. While I do not think that was a long time, my husband told me that most women he dated had sex within 2-3 dates. At six weeks, my husband and I had been on more than 10 dates. My husband said he waited because he knew I was special. I wanted to jump his bones the night I met my him, but I knew my husband wouldn't respect me or see me again if I did. I wanted to make sure that my husband really wanted to be with me and I didn't want to feel used and duped.

 

The best way for a woman to know if a man truly interested in her is to hold off on sex for at least a month. Men who want to get to know a woman aren't going to pressure her into sex because they don't want to scare her away. My husband never pressured me to sleep with him and he wasn't all about raunchy talk when we just met. He was a gentleman and that made me feel wonderful.

 

Just tell your daughter to be careful. Actions speak louder than words.

[Nyla]

Encourage your daughter to shift her focus off of boys and onto her own life path. Tell her the boys need to mature, and will be more interested in her for the right reasons later. For now, she needs to accept that most of her male friends will desire sex with her, but that doesn't mean they want to be her boyfriend. She should just ignore the sex issue with her guy friends, unless real love blooms between her and someone along the way (and even then, sex should wait).

 

And anyone who blows hot and cold (not contacting for 3 days after lots of pursuit) needs to be distanced.

 

There are a lot of men who never mature. Your words about men desiring sex and not a relationship is true all across the lifespan; there are so many men who are well past their teenage years who have this mindset.

[Titania22]

Titania22:

Consider another viewpoint here...If you and your daughter are consistently attracting jerks, maybe you are teaching her behaviors or values that you believe in that limits interaction from nice, stable and men who have the same life goals as you do.

Just a thought,

Grumps

 

because nice, stable men aren't what ladies desire. not even close.

 

Actually I do desire nice and stable, what got me interested was nice and friendly (it works like catnip to me), jerky or hot/cold behaviour makes me want to hit the block button.

 

Gramps we are not trying to attract jerks. We are trying to avoid them. We both look for consistency of behaviour, the point is the behaviour changes. (As for teaching her behaviours and values that limit her from meeting good stable men, I worry about that all the time. I would love to be able to say hey I found a great guy, and so they are out there, you will too. I can't really convince her of something I don't believe myself.)

 

Ninjas explanation made alot of sense to me. I think he hit some nails on some heads.

 

Encourage your daughter to shift her focus off of boys and onto her own life path. Tell her the boys need to mature, and will be more interested in her for the right reasons later. For now, she needs to accept that most of her male friends will desire sex with her, but that doesn't mean they want to be her boyfriend. She should just ignore the sex issue with her guy friends, unless real love blooms between her and someone along the way (and even then, sex should wait).

 

And anyone who blows hot and cold (not contacting for 3 days after lots of pursuit) needs to be distanced.

 

Hey focus isn't really all about boys. She has always been career focussed and a very strong personality. Part of her problem is she still wants friends her own age. She would love a close female friend, or many. But her circumstance is she doesn't share things in common with most girls, and she is having a damned hard time finding girls that both share her interest and are willing to invest in a close friendship. Likewise she has lots in common with guys, but they can't seem to be happy seeing her as just a friend. She feels incredibly lonely and isolated.

 

I agree with you about the hot and cold thing. Life is too damn short to waste our time on that emotional manipulation.

 

"All guys" aren't any one thing. Nor are all females any one thing.

 

Was your father a jerk? Your daughter's father?

 

I don't think of him so much as a jerk, but rather an abusive psychopath. He has been gone 10years.

 

I have changed alot, and over the years I have been attracting very different men that reflect my personal growth. But in all my experience I have always been treated best by men where nothing sexual occurred (and that includes no flirting, no kissing, no nothing, just rated G interaction).

[Titania22]

I have zero clue why a guy who spent all that time being friends with her would bail after he got some.

 

From my point of view it seems like a massive headache to pull that kind of stunt.

I couldn't do it. too much drama between friends.

 

Either she is doing something to scare them off during/after or she doesn't really know these guys as well as she thinks she does.

 

IKR, except technically they haven't got some sex yet with her. Because she wants the guy to make some sort of effort to make her first time special.

 

And to put it in perspective, she asked her boyfriend to the formal (instead of waiting for him to ask her). She baked her strawberry muffins with fresh strawberries, put them in a pretty box with a box and a card asking him to go with her. It wasn't expensive but did take some time and effort on her part. She figures she only loses her virginity once, a guy should be willing to make some effort to make the experience special, which doesn't mean expensive. She just wants to know the guy cares (or at least looks like he cares).

 

I would have thought the same as you. If sex is good wouldn't guys want more of it, apparently not.

[xxoo]

IKR, except technically they haven't got some sex yet with her. Because she wants the guy to make some sort of effort to make her first time special.

 

And to put it in perspective, she asked her boyfriend to the formal (instead of waiting for him to ask her). She baked her strawberry muffins with fresh strawberries, put them in a pretty box with a box and a card asking him to go with her. It wasn't expensive but did take some time and effort on her part. She figures she only loses her virginity once, a guy should be willing to make some effort to make the experience special, which doesn't mean expensive. She just wants to know the guy cares (or at least looks like he cares).

 

I would have thought the same as you. If sex is good wouldn't guys want more of it, apparently not.

 

How old is your daughter?

[Titania22]

How old is your daughter?

 

She is 18. She just finished highschool and has a 3month wait before her advanced diploma starts. She was just looking up where she can do some life drawing classes, as she wants to hone her drawing skills before her course begins.

[Necris]

there are a few reasons guys are nice guys.

1. their mother taught them to behave this way.

2. ladies tell them that's how to attract the opposite sex.

3. they are naturally this way.

 

for case 1 and 2 they eventually realize it a massive hindrance to success with the ladies and they stop.

for 3, all i can say is i know a guy this way and he's 36 and never had sex. enough said.

 

ladies gravitate toward jerkiness and the sooner a guy gets this, the better he will do. what ladies do doesn't always make sense, they are very complex creatures. guys are simpler, and most figure out what pays dividends and do that. its how mother nature works.

 

Lol I'm definitely going to be the number 3 guy then. Already down that path, oh well what can I say.

 

But there are plenty of nice guys out there unfortunately for women like the OP they aren't attracted to them simple as that. And there is probably a mix of bad character judgment in there somewhere.

[xxoo]

She is 18. She just finished highschool and has a 3month wait before her advanced diploma starts. She was just looking up where she can do some life drawing classes, as she wants to hone her drawing skills before her course begins.

 

Her social life sounds pretty normal to me--not really anything to be concerned about. It's normal for boys around that age to be aloof about relationships. While some men never mature, most of these boys will mature over the next 5 years or so and be more relationship minded. You should encourage her to wait for someone special, but not worry about it. Focus on her studies.

 

If you compare her relationships to yours, you may project issues onto her that don't really exist. It could create issues for her. Men you date should be very different from the boys she dates.

[ThaWholigan]

Sometimes we attract the people and situations we don't want because we dwell on them enough and use them as fodder for our confirmation bias. So we encounter more people with jerkish qualities. Other times, people manipulate their way into your good graces and then let you down by being jerks. It's a crap shoot really.

 

People suck sometimes. Once you accept that, you'll be less annoyed by it and you may find yourself encountering good people who suck less than others and you'll appreciate it

 

Your daughter seems like she'll be fine.

 

As for you nice guys, you don't have to stop being nice if that's naturally how you are - but you can't be so trapped within yourself, there is more to your character than just being nice and stable. Discover it.