ZaneIssac Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 I'll try to condense this as much as possible but provide relevant details. There's a TL;DR version down below. We met last year and dated for several months. I'd never met anyone like her (let's call her "J") and we clicked instantly. A few weeks felt like months, and several months felt like we had known each other for years. J was quick to tell me that she loved me, but I was not so quick to jump in, having been hurt before. Background on both of us: I used to suffer from anxiety and depression and right before meeting J, was responding well to therapy and medication. Basically, I was doing great for the first time in several years. J, on the other hand, was likely suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder. This caused her to be extremely sensitive, needy and quick to judge things as black or white (never gray). Whereas I am a shy guy who has only been in a handful of relationships (and somewhat content with being alone), J was almost always in a relationship, having had at least 60 sexual partners in her 24 years (she openly told me this early on). When we first started dating, she had a three-strike policy (she had developed it to quickly weed out guys she was dating). I had a problem with this, but she told me at one point that I had passed three strikes but she was giving me more chances. We had some troubles several months in when some of the issues under the surface bubbled up. She grew upset when I spent time with friends or family instead of her. She always wanted me around, which I mostly obliged her in (but not always). I did not tell her I was seeing a therapist at first and she was very upset when she found out. At a trip to a theme park, she had a meltdown because she couldn't ride the major rides (motion sickness) whereas I couldn't ride the kiddie rides (same reason). She was very insecure and insisted on honesty, but couldn't handle it when I (was dumb enough to) let her know. She told me about past boyfriends who used and abused her, treated her like crap and one guy who even raped her. Despite this, she told me was I was the worst boyfriend she ever had. In August of last year, after having been together for four months, things reached a boiling point. I was under a ton of pressure from taking summer classes and J was too much for me to handle, so I broke it off with her. But we both couldn't let each other go. She asked me to continue with her as friends-with-benefits, but it was really just a relationship under another name. We continued this game until November, when she had a personal crisis after breaking her phone. She couldn't afford to fix it and I promised to fix it for her. She started having episodes of what I can only describe as mania. I couldn't do homework, couldn't go to the gym, couldn't get a haircut because she needed me near all the time. We had a fight and stopped talking for a little while. At the same time, I had run out of my ssri's and was going through a terrible withdrawal (she did not know I was on meds). She called me a little while later and asked me to break off our friendship. This made no sense to me. I told her that sometimes friends drifted apart but no one formally broke up with their "friends." She kept pleading with me to break it off and, for reasons I am still trying to understand, I told her we weren't friends anymore. I don't think I was quite in my right mind. I don't want to paint and entirely dark picture of J here. She was a great person when she wasn't overwhelmed by her own emotions. She was thoughtful, honest, loyal and fun. I deeply enjoyed our time together. She called me a month later and I wasn't ready to talk to her again, to let that craziness back into my life; I was still trying to piece my life back together and dealing with new anxiety issues, this time without the help of therapy or medication (insurance ran out). The months that followed were challenging. Every activity, every trip, every dinner out was less fun, less exciting. I couldn't stop thinking about J. Every thing I did felt empty without her. It took me a long time, but I realized that I had fallen in love with her. I felt awful that I had not had a chance to tell her. However, after our break up in August, she had changed her number (something she does after every breakup) so I had no way of contacting her (our short "friends" period was her calling me annoymously or chatting with me over the internet). Knowing her personality and splitting tendencies, I did not know how to reach out to her. On her birthday, I bought her a card and slipped it under her windshield wiper. I didn't sign the card, expecting her to know it was me. I waited for a call that never came. The loneliness I experienced was like none I had ever felt. I pined for her but did not know how to get in contact. I had once promised her I would not send her emails, so I avoided that. Then, I found a belonging of hers that she had long ago insisted I return to her. So, approximately 10 months since we had last spoken, and 4 months since the birthday card, I emailed her to let her know I found something of hers and wanted to return it to her. She didn't respond. So, I sent her another email. And another. And another. In each one, I said a little more: how I felt sorry how things end, how horrible I was, how I wanted to apologize, how there were things I needed to say to her, how bad these past few months were, how I missed her, etc. She never responded. We don't live far from each other, but despite this, I had not seen her in all this time. As luck would have it, I ran into her after about a month of emailing her (perhaps a dozen emails total). I was in my car and she was walking. I had kept her item in my car just in case and asked her to take it. She told me she didn't want it. She clenched her jaw and continued to walk while I drove alongside. I told her that if she wanted me to leave, she only had to say so. And she did. So I drove off. About 30 minutes later, I got a call from her. She told me the only reason she wasn't calling the police or getting a restraining order was because she knew I wasn't the type of person to be following her. She went on to tell me that she didn't know what's going in my life and she didn't care. She didn't like the disruption in her life I was causing, sending her all these emails. She called me selfish, stating that every email was about my need for absolution and my desire to have her as a friend and not about actually caring about her well-being. I tried to explain to her that if I didn't care, I wouldn't have been trying so hard to get back into touch with her. That I would have handled things differently if I had the chance to do it again. That I felt terrible about how I had acted toward her. Her response was harsh. She said she no longer cared about me and didn't want or need me in her life. On top of that, her new boyfriend didn't like her having guy friends. She said I was a bad person. That I had not changed at all. She couldn't understand why I would reach out after 10 months, why I was trying so hard to return something to her that she obviously DIDNT want. I admitted that it was just an opening, an excuse to talk to her. She asked if I had left the birthday card on her windshield adn I admitted I did; she claimed that signing it then would have been a way to open a door to communication. I tried to explain. I asked for her to be a little lenient. Told her I was an imperfect human who had made a mistake and really wanted to make up for it. I told her I would stop the emails, that all she had to do was ask. I offered her my friendship one last time: told her that I was there for her if she needed it. "Too little, too late," she said. Then she hung up. As awful as that phone call was, it felt so good to hear her voice and to be talking to her again that I wanted it to never end. How messed up is that? I won't go into how terrible the next few weeks were and how much weight and sleep I've lost. Despite my better judgment and the advice of friends and loved one, I wrote her a letter. I explained that the pressures of being off medication and therapy, combined with school and other factors, caused me to make a mistake with her. That I only realized later that I did, in fact, love her. That I had worried about her and missed her for months and didn't know how to talk to her again. Explained how the emails were just an act of desperation in response to her silence. That I still cared immensely about her and thought about her daily. How deeply sorry I was for all the pain I caused her. Then I thanked her for all great memories we had shared and told her that despite her closing herself off to me, I would always be ready to be her friend if she would have me. I included a SASE but never got a response from her. Shockingly, I ran into her AGAIN about 10 days later; this time, she saw me before I saw her and the icy look she gave me was awful. I was driving and had to look away from that glare. I was overwhelmed. I went out and bought a "sorry" card and wrote to her that I couldn't believe it had come to this: that we had been best friends once and now couldn't even say hello to each other. I apologized for all my mistakes (again) and my commitment to be better. I asked her for a chance to talk. That's all. A conversation. I also reminded her of a poem she had sent me about past friends who had coldly turned her away when things had ended. I left this under her windshield wiper. Once again, no response. TL;DR version: I met a great person with emotional instabilities about a year a half ago. We had problems, we broke up, we became friends with benefits, then just friends. 7 months after we met, we cut ties. Then I realized I loved her. 5 months later, I left an anonymous birthday card on her windshield. 5 months after that, I sent her numerous emails with no response. After seeing her on the street, she called me and told me to cut it out. A letter, another run-in and a sorry card later, she's still not responding. I have a lot of love for this girl. We had a total of 7 months together, and here I am 11 months later, still thinking about her. She really was one of the best friends I've ever had; we both talked about how great it was to be each other's best friend as well as being together romantically. I don't know what the next step is. For now, I've decided to back off and let things cool. I was thinking of sending her flowers to mark the day I broke off our friendship and apologize again, but that seems like a bad idea. I was also considering inviting her for Thanksgiving, because she once told me she's never been to a Thanksgiving dinner. But that seems weird, too. I also recall promising her sushi once upon a time: I had a thought to buy her a gift certificate at her favorite place and telling her to have a nice dinner with her boyfriend, on me. Once again: a nice gesture or weird? The only thing I'm left with is mailing her a "I'm thinking of you" card and just asking how she is. Maybe suggesting getting a cup of coffee and catching up. I know it's been said before (in fact, I wrote it in the letter), you have to fight for something worth fighting for. I don't know if I can ever be with her again romantically. But, she was a great friend and I would take her friendship again in a heartbeat. Am I deluding myself that I might convince her to just talk to me? Is this a lost cause? I've been turning it around in my head and there are a few things that bother me: -J said that signing the card would have been an opening. But she still seemed to know it was me who left it there, so wasn't it, in fact, an opening? Doesn't it show that I didn't appear out of the blue 10 months later, that I had been thinking about her much earlier? -She told me that I was the same selfish, bad person I was before... but how could she know that without talking to me? How can anyone make that judgment with no evidence? I feel like I know how you're supposed to handle a situation like this: apologize, commit to improment, change your life, etc. I've actually done many of these things. But I wonder if it's all a waste of time with a person as stubborn and perhaps jaded as J is. It's been said before, but I'm not the typical guy: I don't play games, I genuinely care, etc. How do I let J know I'm genuine about wanting to be her friend? Anyways, thanks for reading the long post. I'd love to hear the female perspective on this, or any advice, really.
r321148 Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 Not female but will give my thoughts anyway. This is a difficult situation. Writing emails and letters etc to her is a bad idea. She obviously doesn't want contact from you at the moment and you need to respect that. If you care for her then you have to respect what she wants. Don't send flowers, don't invite her for thanksgiving, no card, no sushi voucher not even coffee. She doesn't want to hear from you and all of these things which are nice gestures in your head will not be taken that way. You need to give her a lot of time and space. A lot of damage has been done here and being completely blunt; she may never come around You also sound like you're in a bad place right now. You need to focus on yourself. Depression is a serious thing (been there) don't let your mental health suffer. I feel like I know how you're supposed to handle a situation like this: apologize, commit to improment, change your life, etc. I've actually done many of these things. But I wonder if it's all a waste of time with a person as stubborn and perhaps jaded as J is. It's been said before, but I'm not the typical guy: I don't play games, I genuinely care, etc. How do I let J know I'm genuine about wanting to be her friend? The commitment to improvement is for yourself. The changes to your life are also for yourself. You shouldn't be doing these things for anybody else. I think if you genuinely want to be her friend then you need to back right off. You need to realise that she doesn't want to hear from you right now and respect that. In time she MAY come around but she will do this in her own time and without you keep relentlessly trying to force her hand. I know this probably isn't what you wanted to hear but good luck with it. Keep up the self improvement and things will get better for you
pixelish Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 Yeesh, what a nightmare that sounds like, on both ends! Do not send that card, do not leave it under her windshield wiper, rip it up and throw it away! NO invites to anything. NOTHING. EVER! As of right now, she wants absolutely nothing to do with you. If I ever treated someone like that, it's to push them away, not make them more insistent on getting in contact with me. Honestly, if I kept receiving things like that out of the blue, it would only make me more angry. You are doing these things with good intentions, they're very sweet and you sound like a great guy, but you don't deserve this kind of treatment. Nor are you her boyfriend, and these are boyfriend things. And, side note, it was very wrong of her to say you're the "worst boyfriend she's ever had." VERY wrong! It's insulting of other women for her to say that especially if she claims to have been raped and abused, and you're the worst? For shame, I say. Like r321148 said, back off for now. You've already apologized, now initiate no contact for as long as it takes. And no I don't mean a week or two, really try. Improve yourself and change your life for YOU, not for her! Be confident in being happy by yourself. And if you see each other again down the road, she might notice and be interested again. If not, screw her. Don't keep doing this to yourself, please.
flight E Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 U have mental health issues you have to think of you first. Leave her alone its what she wants and bugging her won't change it. Man up, let her be. You will be fine after a while. You nice gesture will achieve the oposite result just disappear from her life
gothicrose Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 You asked how she could call you a selfish, bad person with no evidence? Well she does have evidence of your selfishness; you kept contacting her when she already stated she wants nothing more to do with you. I'm on day 12 of nc with my ex, prior to that I spent a good few weeks going over to his place and phoning him, trying to show him I cared and that I was genuine/regretted how badly it all went wrong... He kept accusing me of not caring about his feelings and being selfish, and its only the past few days ive realised he was right. Continuing to contact someone regularly when theyve asked you not to, isnt acting in their beat interests and doesnt show you care. Leave her alone.
Author ZaneIssac Posted November 6, 2013 Author Posted November 6, 2013 You asked how she could call you a selfish, bad person with no evidence? Well she does have evidence of your selfishness; you kept contacting her when she already stated she wants nothing more to do with you. To be fair, I asked her in nearly every email I sent that if she was annoyed, to just tell me to stop and I would. During the phone call, I mentioned one email I wrote but never sent, and she said to send it and stop. I turned it into a handwritten letter instead (and mentioned that no more letters would follow that one).
BritneyLynn Posted November 8, 2013 Posted November 8, 2013 I can say I've been in both your position and j's before so for what it's worth I'll offer some insight to both I suffer from depression and anxiety as well as borderline personality disorder (yeah I'm a little messed up) and being in that position, you sometimes feel helpless, like nobody cares even if you have all the support in the world. It's a dark and scary place. I played the same sort of a game with an ex, pushed him away just so he would chase me. The reality of it is, as messed up as it may be, she wanted to know that you would chase her, that you'd be there should she want or need you. Now she has someone new to give her that same satisfaction so she doesn't need it from you. I'm not trying to make her out to be a bad person but if she has the issues you say she had (which isn't her fault) her mind doesn't operate the way others do and I know I was that way myself As for you wanting the friendship, I've been there too having lost my best friend and lover a year ago. You need to move on the best you can. I haven't spoken to him since he left but, I find our friendship in the things I do. I allow myself to reminisce when something reminds me of him and I think of how blessed I am to have experienced it with him. Some people never have a lover who is also a best friend and you're lucky to know what it's like. But remember just because it was great doesn't mean it was meant to be forever. As good as it was just imagine how amazing "the one" will be then! Good luck I hope I didn't come off as harsh, just trying to be honest 1
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