Am I right or is she?

[barkingmad]

Just wanted your words of wisdom on this one...

 

About 2 years I met a MM at work and we got friendly part to do with the pressures of working in a an environment that suxd. We got close - spent a lot of time chatting, went for a coffee a few times and a couples of times left work to go for walks. Iam a MW too and there was nothing phsyical apart from a couple of hugs and a kiss now and again. Also we phoned and IMed a lot, everyday in fact.

 

Although there were feelings there on both sides we never wanted to take it further. I married young and still love my husband but in some ways we've grown apart. My friend really meant a lot to me, he gave me a lot of support and we were so close. He made me feel so special.

 

Recently his wife found a text from me to him and did a bit of digging (a LOT of digging) and dredged up all kinds of e-mails, phone bills etc. She went crazy, threatened to chuck him out and rang me up telling me to get a life, leave him alone etc.

 

He came into work one day and announced that we would have to stop phoning, IMing etc which annoyed me no end. I felt like some naughty girl whod had her hand slapped. Then a few weeks later my friend comes into work and says that we can't even be friends anymore, he's promised his wife that we will just not speak except about work.

 

I am really not impressed with this because I feel like shes got it all out of proportion and that we could still have been friends. I really miss him a lot and would like to talk him round so that we can at least still chat at work and so on.

 

Tell me, am i being unreasonable in still wanting him as a friend?

[Devildog]

Yeah, it is unreasonable. His wife has a huge issue with the situation, and what you were participating in was an emotional affair. If he is wanting to make an effort to strengthen his marriage or save it as the case may be, he has to stop all contact with you. Otherwise he is not being fair to his wife and marriage.

 

And before you say "we are just friends, nothing would have happened, why don't people trust us" keep in mind that everyone in an emotional affair says that. And no, your situation isn't different, because everyone says that as well.

[barkingmad]

Are you kidding? We were 'friends' that 's all.

[Devildog]

Originally posted by barkingmad

Although there were feelings there on both sides we never wanted to take it further. I married young and still love my husband but in some ways we've grown apart. My friend really meant a lot to me, he gave me a lot of support and we were so close. He made me feel so special.

 

That is the key passage in what you said. The friend gave you the emotional support your marriage wasn't giving you, and probably vice versa. When you are sharing intimate, emotional details of your marriage with some other man, that is an emotional affair. And whether you intend things to go further than that or not, and many times they do get physical, it is still an emotional seperation from your spouse that has no place in a marriage.

 

You both should be trying to find out what you need from your respective marriages and trying to work things out in your marriages. Counselling would be a good idea.

[izzybelle]

barkingmad,

 

i'm not totally sure if your desire for friendship is unreasonable, without knowing what types of things were said in the emails, it's hard to judge whether this was just friendship or the beginning of an emotional affair and whether or not his wife had reason to be upset.

 

that said, and not referring specifically to your situation, i have a huge problem with the "double standard," if you will, that society places on friendships between men and women. because people always assume the worst, it seems like any communication between a married man and a married woman is construed as the beginning of an affair. if you were to have the same communication with a woman, people wouldn't be as likely to say that it was an emotional separation from your marriage.

 

most of my good friends have always been male and situations like this have been something i've watched happen over and over again. my best friend and confidant when i was going through some health issues and my divorce was a man. i didn't want, or need, a woman's perspective on my marriage, i wanted a man's advice. EVERYONE assumed there was something going on between us and that he was the reason i was getting divorced. he had nothing to do with it. especially when i have relationship problems, i ask my male friends. not because i'm expecting anything from them except a male perspective. if i'm trying to figure out why a guy reacted a certain way or did a certain thing, doesn't it make more sense to ask a guy for insight?

 

i know there are many situations where these emotional connections turn into something else, people can be drawn to each other. but some days i feel like i'm back at a high school dance, boys on one side of the gym, girls on the other both groups afraid to talk to the "others". and like i said at the beginning, i'm not sure about this situation specifically, i just find it sad that in almost EVERY case people assume that there's an affair going on. some times there is and some times there isn't. i don't feel i know enough about your situation to make that assessment. and ultimately, only you, and he, know if there was indeed something inappropriate going on or if it was just all friendship and support.

[Dane1965]

Its a very difficult situation you are in. You both seem to very kind to each other although the situation has worsened.

 

I think what ever will happen, this is a cross point. This is a start of a change which we cannot now what will happen.

 

weather she is right? yes, i think so. What would you do in her situation?

 

And you have all the right to ask for a friendship which is dear. I am fair there are no winners nor losers.

 

And perhaps you should talk to him, if you can and really talk about how close you were. There is more than just friendship here. because you seem to need each other allot. Want to speak to each other alot.

 

Just be honest to yourself what you want with this friendship. maybe you wanted much more. If you did, then you should confront him as well. if not, then friendships usually last and this will just eb a short period before you can pick up this friendship. i just think it is the first scenario

 

do you dream of this guy to be your long partner in life? just think of that...

[tyger69]

Well, I do understand his wife's point of view. I mean she found out about you accidentally. If it was a true friendship why wasn't it presented in that way? She is therefore suspicious now and feels like she has been cheated on. Even though she wasn't.......

 

Maybe in time there will be a possibility again to have this friendship, but I think he need to get her trust back again at this moment... he is the one who should work on that. He can either convince her of the honest friendship you two had or choose for no contact at all....

 

Unfortunately you are the one that is not part of this process, and you have lost a good friend. I truely hope a solution will come. Don't be angry with her, she simply doesn't know.

 

Take care!

[barkingmad]

Originally posted by tyger69

Well, I do understand his wife's point of view. I mean she found out about you accidentally. If it was a true friendship why wasn't it presented in that way? She is therefore suspicious now and feels like she has been cheated on. Even though she wasn't.......

 

 

It wasn't meant to be kept a secret. My friend's wife had been jealous in the past when he had other women friends and he had mentioned me a bit a the start but then of course it became harder to suddenly say 'Here is my very close friend'. I never had any intention of leaving my husband for him and he didn't for me. It was just fun and made us both feel good.

 

I just think it's so unfair that i've been left with nothing just because she says so. I don't think talking to him would do any good. His wife has said that if he even goes for coffee with me that will be that as far as she is concerned.

 

I guess I am pretty hurt too that he would just drop me like that. It's like I didn't really matter at all.

[whichwayisup]

You're both right and both wrong.

 

Although there were feelings there on both sides we never wanted to take it further. I married young and still love my husband but in some ways we've grown apart. My friend really meant a lot to me, he gave me a lot of support and we were so close. He made me feel so special.

 

That doesn't sound like 'just friends'. The fact feelings are there, it's called friends with feelings.

 

He has to live with his wife, he is committed to her so therefore he is going to do what he has to do to keep her happy. He isn't thinking of you and your feelings in this. I'm sure it hurts, but if your H told you to stop you would as well.

 

Obviously something in those emails and IM's upset her enough to react and tell him to stop. Friends are great but friends aren't supposed to cause problems in marriages. Could you socialize with him and his wife? You and your husband all go out together? That is the only solution if you want him as a friend - the spouses have to be included as well.

 

He's wrong because of how he's handled it with you. He could have been nicer and maybe it would not have been such a slap in the face.

 

Good luck!

[tyger69]

Of course you DO matter! He has not forgotten about you.

He simply needs to put things straight.

 

Unfortunately she is a very insecure lady (either by his past behaviour or past experiences), so it might take some time.

 

This is NOT about you. If this is a true friendship things will turn out fine.

Just have patience....

[Owl]

Barkingmad-

 

Again, look at you're own post.

 

Although there were feelings there on both sides we never wanted to take it further. I married young and still love my husband but in some ways we've grown apart. My friend really meant a lot to me, he gave me a lot of support and we were so close. He made me feel so special.

 

This was indeed a THREAT to his marriage. Neither of you WANTED to take it further...that does NOT mean that it couldn't have happened. Take it from me...my wife had an online emotional affair with a man for about 6 weeks-2 months. When I learned about it and confronted her...she packed up, he sent her plane tickets, and she stayed in a motel waiting to get on the plane to someone she'd never met!! She didn't go...that's another story.

 

The point is...almost no one INTENDS for an affair to happen. But that closeness and "special" feeling will almost garauntee that one will happen if you remain in contact and don't take steps to end it...which is what he's done. What you had is an emotional affair...and if you don't stop to recognize that, you'll be setting yourself up to do it again!!

 

Does your husband know about how hard you've taken this loss of friendship with this man?? Did you tell your husband how he makes you feel "special"? Does your husband know that you shared hugs and kisses with him?

 

My money says a resounding NO!!! Because you didn't tell him...because you didn't want to "hurt" him. You didn't think it mattered...but the truth is...YOU were having an emotional affair with this guy. You were sharing things with him that you should have shared with your husband...and if you didn't tell him about it, you decieved him as well. Probably because you knew he'd be hurt, angry, and insist that you end your friendship with this guy. Tell me I'm wrong.

[barkingmad]

OK - you're wrong! No, seriously I spoke a bit more about my friend to my husband than he did to his wife and he was fine with it. I can guarantee that nothing was going to happen. In 18 months of contact we never met out of work or took it further. The hugs and kissses only happened a couple of times, it wasn't like it was building up into something more or happened everytime we met.

 

We would never have slept together or anything like that. I want to stay with my H and he wanted to stay with his wife.

 

Of course I didn't tell my h about the hugs and kisses - it's not the sort of thing you do is it. Would you say to your wife @Oh, I met x today and when we had finished talking I kissed her and hugged her. Why would I do that?

 

All I'm saying is that we were good friends. I don't see why there is such a problem with it if everbody is happy.

[barkingmad]

Originally posted by whichwayisup

Friends are great but friends aren't supposed to cause problems in marriages. Could you socialize with him and his wife? You and your husband all go out together? That is the only solution if you want him as a friend - the spouses have to be included as well.

 

He's wrong because of how he's handled it with you. He could have been nicer and maybe it would not have been such a slap in the face.

 

Good luck!

 

There is no way on earth we could go out together now! I did suggest it in the beginning that her and I meet but now I think she would probably kill me!

 

You're right he could have done it a bit nicer. I mean I know you have to keep your marriage going, but isn't it possible to have a friend as well? Or males and females just not allowed to be friends?

[whichwayisup]

You're right he could have done it a bit nicer. I mean I know you have to keep your marriage going, but isn't it possible to have a friend as well? Or males and females just not allowed to be friends?

 

Yes is it possible. But spouses have to be part of it at times. Not all the time but sometimes. I have many guy friends, most I've known all my life, so those don't count...And my H has met them all and their wives/kids etc...

Any new friends that I have met either through work or through other people I always make sure they know I'm married and not looking for anything. I think too, you just can't cross that 'line'. Yes, guys think of sex and probably any guy friend would think of you in sexual way, but once you get past that, guys are great to have as friends. But you can't discuss 'feelings' and 'sexual thoughts' if you both feel it. That just opens up a can of worms and allows things that could happen.

 

I think in your case because feelings were there and discussed, you both know in your hearts that the friendship had the potiental to move to another level. If he didn't think that way then he'd still be talking to you as a friend.

 

Hope you hang in there. I know it hurts, but better now than further down the road when you are more emotionally attached.

[Owl]

Originally posted by barkingmad

 

 

Of course I didn't tell my h about the hugs and kisses - it's not the sort of thing you do is it. Would you say to your wife @Oh, I met x today and when we had finished talking I kissed her and hugged her. Why would I do that?

 

 

Hmmm...interesting on lots of levels. Let me start with the hugs and kisses...you DO tell your husband if you want to make sure that you're being totally honest and open. If it's "not the sort of thing you do", then that to me also suggests that you weren't being completely in the open. And in my case...I don't kiss or hug ANYONE that isn't my wife, or my sister. I don't kiss and hug my wife's sister for exactly that reason. And while my wife IS a hugger, she's usually very careful about it. It's WAY too easy for it to be misconstrued....not just by me, but by the other person as well.

 

All I'm saying is that we were good friends. I don't see why there is such a problem with it if everbody is happy.

 

Well, his wife wasn't happy. She felt it was dangerous to their marriage, which is why she insisted that it end. Makes sense to me. And you already admitted in previous responses that he "made you feel special", and that "Although there were feelings there on both sides we never wanted to take it further.". Those are some SERIOUS danger signs lady. His wife was absolutely right for wanting to end the friendship based on what YOU posted here about what YOU felt. The moment you started to feel "special" around him, the moment you realized that "there were feelings"...you began risking both of your marriages

 

You could well be right...it's very possible that nothing may have happened, that your friendship could have ended before something happened. You both may have avoided doing anything about it while you remained friends...but its also very possible that it could have grown as well. Especially if he's feeling like he's got a wife that doesn't trust him and stresses him out. My wife didn't plan on having her emotional affair...but, one of the main reasons that it DID happen was because she didn't walk away or end it when those "special feelings" began.

 

There's no problems with men and women having friendships...as long as they don't get those "special" feelings. If that happens...there's a risk.

 

In your case, while I can certainly expect that you'll miss his friendship, you should count yourself as a TRUE friend, and walk away and let him work on his marriage. It sounds like it probably needs it, and I don't mean in any way connected with you. Good luck to you!

[SoleMate]

Yes, you are allowed to have friends of the opposite sex. Of course. But here are the rules for keeping opposite sex friends in the proper position in your life:

 

* Make sure your spouse is introduced to the friend, and occasionally included in your time together

* No "datelike" behavior (candlelit dinners, handholding, little gifts, etc.)

* Never conceal your calls, emails, letters, time together, or hugs and kisses (yes, you should have come home and said "Jeremy kissed me on the cheek this afternoon")

* Preferably avoid hugs and kisses

* Avoid having 1 special opposite sex friend

* Never tell your opposite sex friend about problems with your spouse, unless that friend also has similar discussions with YOUR spouse

* If the friendship becomes a problem in your marriage, then back off or end the friendship

* Always keep your relationship with your spouse primary

 

PLEASE NOTE: There is NO exception granted for people with "overly jealous" spouses who "never let them have any fun". If someone has a spouse who appears to fall into that category, the problem should be addressed straight on. In fact, there are NO exceptions to anyof these rules. If you can't keep the rules, don't have the friendship.

 

I see a lot in your posts, barkingmad, to indicate that this is/was a burgeoning EA. Just the way you word things...and what you choose to emphasize or deemphasize. And make no mistake - the fact that you did not have sexual intercourse, and probably never had any intention to, does NOT negate the reality of the EA.

 

If this man is such a good platonic friend, and wants to save his marriage, are you being a good friend to him if you don't let him go? If you had followed the above rules, you almost certainly could have had an innocent friendship with him. But you didn't - his W found out - and I consider her response perfectly appropriate and correct.

 

I understand the "hand slapping" feel. Just follow the rules next time, and no one will have any reason to slap your hands or reject you.

[barkingmad]

OK now I've had my hand slapped 3 or 4 times over. Is it really so bad to be friends and flirt a little and both feel good. i really believe in some ways I probably helped their marriage and vice versa. I know I helped my friend through a lot of problems at work where his wife was not interested enough to listen to him.

 

I just hate this 'He's all mine and no-one else can even have a bit of him approach'. If my h had a friend who cheered him up and made him feel good I wouldnt mind it. It would proabably make things better between us.

[whichwayisup]

I'm just playing the devil here...

 

If my h had a friend who cheered him up and made him feel good I wouldnt mind it. It would proabably make things better between us.

 

"Honey I'm home!!" You go and give your H a kiss and a hug. You notice he smells of perfume and has lipstick on his collar. He's extremely happy and giddy, all smiley as well. HMMMM you think...So he says, "oh yeah, Tammi at the office is SO much fun! We went for lunch and held hands...She kissed me and gave me a hug so that is why I smell the way I do and that lipstick? It will come off right?"

 

OK you are NOT going to feel in any way what-so-ever hurt, jealous or even wonder if it could turn into something else? I think you are only seeing what you want to see and you are not really understanding what we are all trying to say..You're defending and standing by what you feel, I understand that, but open your eyes abit and see what is really happening? IF he was "JUST" a friend, no feelings or anything, then this would just not be an issue. "whatever" life goes on, no biggie should be the normal reaction here.

 

Sorry, I am not making light of this situation but you really have blinders on and everyone is just trying to help you see things more clearly.

[Owl]

Originally posted by barkingmad

OK now I've had my hand slapped 3 or 4 times over. Is it really so bad to be friends and flirt a little and both feel good. i really believe in some ways I probably helped their marriage and vice versa. I know I helped my friend through a lot of problems at work where his wife was not interested enough to listen to him.

 

I just hate this 'He's all mine and no-one else can even have a bit of him approach'. If my h had a friend who cheered him up and made him feel good I wouldnt mind it. It would proabably make things better between us.

 

 

Sorry if you think I'm "slapping your hand". I'm not. I'm hoping that you'll stop and THINK about what's going on, and recognize for yourself what the dangers are. I don't know you, and really it doens't matter to me if you end up going outside of your marriage or not.

 

The majority of us here have been involved in an affair in one way or another...most on this board as the "other person". Some have cheated on their spouses, some have had their spouses cheat on them. The point is, we've all already been through something like what you've described...so the INTENT is to give you advice to see what we see from our experiences. We could be wrong, we don't know all the details of your situation. But, given what you've already said, we could be right...and you'd do well to think about it rather than just react to it.

 

You may well be comfortable enough in your marriage that you can't understand the "'He's all mine and no-one else can even have a bit of him approach". Guess that's interesting...I'd think that most spouses DO feel that no one else should 'share' parts of their spouses.

 

And you noted that you wouldn't mind if your husband had a friend that cheered him up... How would you feel if your husband felt that she "made him feel special"...and that "there were feelings there, but we're not going to do anything about them"?? No jealousy, no worries that it MIGHT happen? Would you want him to tell you that he felt that way about her?? Did you ever tell your husband exactly what you told us "he made you feel special", or that "there were feelings..."?? No...because he'd have told you to back off. Because he would have been worried about what MIGHT happen, even if you felt it wouldn't. QED

[ladymembger]

Is it really so bad to be friends and flirt a little and both feel good.

 

No, it isn't as long as neither of you are married or in a serious relationship. When one of both or you are married or part of a serious relationship, the rules that SoleMate outlined applied.

[SoleMate]

i really believe in some ways I probably helped their marriage

That opinion is only valid coming from the actual marriage partners. What are you, a freelance marital therapist?

 

I just hate this 'He's all mine and no-one else can even have a bit of him approach'.

I don't think she said that. You didn't give enough info, but I suspect that if your friendship had been above board, she would not have objected. And BTW, he IS all hers. They likely pledged to cling only unto one another...or however it goes. Their relationship is, or should be, the most IMPORTANT one in his life. All other connections, such as with you, are secondary. And yes, when a secondary relationship threatens a primary one, it has to be broken.

 

You seem pretty sensitive, barkingmad. I don't see how I "slapped your hand". And do be aware that even your high level of emotional involvement in this discussion means that you have lost something pretty darn important - you'd call him a "good friend", I'd call him your "emotional lover". In my eyes, you are going through a breakup, you're in pain, and you should be grieving.

 

 

AS an aside: All people in committed relationships, who would be OK with your SO concealing a close relationship with someone of the opposite sex?

[izzybelle]

so many rules and so little space in my crowded, aging brain to remember them all!

 

i think if i ever get involved in a relationship again i'm going to have to have them all tatooed on my arm. i have enough trouble, these days, remembering where i parked my car!

 

solemate, i know on many of your "rules" you're right, but i find it so sad that people have to be so suspicious. i agree specifically that if the friendship is effecting the relationship then there's a problem. and i think that applies to friends of the same sex too. and no friendship should be concealed, that does lead to problems. i had hoped as i got older that relationships between men and women would mature, that i'd find a group of people who trusted their spouses more than teenagers do their bf/gf's. i have found a few but they are few and far between. many women feel threatened (and i suppose men too) when someone of the opposite sex becomes a friend. there are some out there though who are confident enough in themselves and their relationship to accept that an open, not concealed, friendship is just that. but i haven't quite figured out an easy way to tell who those people are. in many cases, the easiest, and safest way is to become friends with both. nothing hidden. but.... like i'd feel with many of my female friends, i would hope that if i told them something in confidence that they wouldn't go running to their spouse with the info. just because i was a female friend.

 

whether the situation here had the potential to be an EA or was an EA, who knows. but losing a friend is never easy. and losing a friend because someone tells them they're not allowed to be your friend anymore, makes it even harder.

[Owl]

Izzy-

 

Were you ever involved in an affair as a wandering spouse or betrayed spouse? I THINK I've seen in your posts before that you were the OW...

[Pocky]

I guess I am pretty hurt too that he would just drop me like that. It's like I didn't really matter at all.

 

It's not that you didn't matter, you just don't matter as much as his wife and that's exactly how it should be. His top priority should be his relationship with his wife and if your friendship is causing a problem it is his right to end the friendship with you to protect the commitment he has made in his marriage. Regardless of what type of relationship you had, his responsibility lies in finding a solution to his marital problems and if you have become a part of the problem then as a friend you should graciously bow out.

 

Why do you feel your friendship should supersede the relationship he has with his wife? Why do you feel that you deserve more respect and consideration than his wife? She is uncomfortable with the relationship and he has made the decision to follow her requests. At this point there is no further discussion. Wish him well, thank him for the wonderful friendship and hope that his marriage becomes the beautiful relationship that everyone deserves. To stand in his way would be the opposite of what a true friend would do.

[hotgurl]

just curious when yoyu said hug & kiss everyone assumed it was a kiss on the cheek. How did you guys kiss? cheek, lips, or tongue?