Never Again Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 So, I finally felt healed enough (though still not 100%) to really reflect on my relationships. All of them. The conclusion I reached? I'm an incredibly poor judge of character. Looking at this with even an ironic eye, it would appear that something is drastically wrong with me. I can laugh at it now, but holy crap do I keep making choices that seem okay "at the time", but end up being AWFUL. A brief run through the gauntlet: 0.) Highschool/early-college: Dating shenanigans. I don't know what I'm doing or what I want. I inadvertently hurt some nice girls out of total ignorance. 1.) Mid College: I was eventually torn to pieces by a small, artistic girl whom I had loved from afar for years. I unknowingly caught her on the rebound. She didn't know why she was tossing me aside at first, except that she "wasn't ready" for the relationship she wanted with me but "had hope for the future". Also, she was questioning the boundaries of her sexuality. 2.) Late College/Grad School: After a year of being single, I end up in a 3 year LTR. Nice enough girl. Never really challenged me or made me feel like #2, but I come to the conclusion that the relationship with #2 might've been exciting because it was unhealthy. This girl suffered from depression and anxiety, and was on treatment. This never affected her...until she had to move home with her family. She sank into a deep depression and refused to leave her house, so I went to her and supported her through this time. I supplicated to this for 6 months. She dumped me through text messages a month before what would've been our third anniversary. I'm mad at the method of delivery, but fine with the result. 3.) Post Grad School: After another year of being single, I meet a girl online. We begin hooking up. However, after a few months we end up together. I begin to realize, after 2 years of dating, that she's developing an alcohol addiction. She had gone through rehab years before and was supposed to be sober. She made a suicide attempt. I break it off, but we stay friends because I couldn't abandon someone in that state. I try to help her out, but I don't condone her habits or kowtow to her demands. She moves across the country, begins to date other guys and get better. 4.) I begin the best relationship I've ever had, hands down. This girl was full of energy, ambition and positivity. Our interests overlap enough to really connect, but are different enough that we're exposing each other to new things and really inspiring one another. We are ridiculously compatible. Girl #3 found out. Freaked. Sent harassing Facebook messages to #4 and then commits suicide the day that #4 and I are leaving for our first vacation together. Guilt from this affected me periodically, and I'd internalize this and get quiet and forlorn. Definitely took its toll on the relationship, but #4 never said anything or asked me what was wrong. The rest of #4 is on the first thread I posted here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/427852-healed-but-still-will-forced-have-contact-soon Fun coincidences: - #4 is in the same field as #1, but significantly more successful. Apparently artistic girls are a weakness. - #4 has the same first and middle name (same spelling as well) as #2 - #4 gave me nearly the same batch of breakup excuses as #1, including but not limited to the "maybe I like girls?" bit It seems that I'm a supportive, stable guy that attracts (or is attracted to) emotionally immature women. What in f*ck's name is wrong with me? (This is said more in humor than distress, but feel free to psychoanalyze away!)
Author Never Again Posted October 30, 2013 Author Posted October 30, 2013 It seems that I'm a supportive, stable guy that attracts (or is attracted to) emotionally immature women. I attract emotionally unstable men. Don't worry about it. One day you'll attract the right person. Living proof right here. Here's hoping, haha. I thought I had found one, but missed a big red flag (don't date anyone over 25 who's never had a relationship longer than 16 months...lesson learned!). I think I just need to learn what to watch out for. Apparently I've got HUGE blind spots X.X 1
Simon Phoenix Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Here's hoping, haha. I thought I had found one, but missed a big red flag (don't date anyone over 25 who's never had a relationship longer than 16 months...lesson learned!). I think I just need to learn what to watch out for. Apparently I've got HUGE blind spots X.X I'm over 25 and have never had a relationship over 16 months. But I'm a dude, so don't worry That being said, I've had a type -- female athletes (soccer players) with varying degrees of bisexual tendencies, and varying degrees of daddy/men issues despite being alpha for the most part. Three of my most noteworthy girlfriends have fit this motif. The first was in college and she was probably the most normal of the three -- she's a lawyer in NYC now. We had fun, but decided mutually that we were too busy to have a relationship. Have talked to her occasionally throughout the years. She actually wanted to hook up with me a few years ago when we were in the same city, but I was visiting family for the Thanksgiving holiday and was in town for a very short time, so I passed (to which my dad gives me crap for to this day ). The second was a train wreck -- she had a nonexistent father and I was her first male relationship after a run of dating chicks in three years. The guy before me was her high school soccer coach who she started hooking up with when she was in high school. We had a dispute (which was mostly my fault) which caused a break. After we broke (we were coworkers) she tried to get me in trouble at work, started dating and got engaged to another guy to try to piss me off, broke down after I had given her the silent treatment for three months after the work trouble thing, then after a year-plus of NC tried to get me back. I actually ended somewhat friendly with her somehow. The third was the one who brought me here -- sister-in-law of my best friend, very successful, quite attractive, very generous (she loved to try to pay for me when we went out). However, she had druggie boyfriends in college and went through a drug phase and has had at least one former boyfriend who beat her (which I didn't find out until after we broke up). Also, while never officially confirmed, I and her brother-in-law suspect that she's hooked up with women before. Either way, I caused her to break up with me due to my withdrawing because I was scared of the pace of my feelings, but I'm pretty sure that she would have eventually left me on her own volition because I probably would have bored her. I'm not talking to her now -- I was for a while after a five-month NC, but she still has issues with the break and the situation even a year later which would make a friendship of any kind awkward. I guess I need to stop dating female soccer players. So Alex Morgan, sorry, you're out.
Author Never Again Posted October 31, 2013 Author Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) I guess I need to stop dating female soccer players. So Alex Morgan, sorry, you're out. I weep for her loss And I can empathize with withdrawing a bit. I did the same for the last month or so, and for similar reasons. It wasn't intentional on my part (I'm guessing it wasn't for you either?), and she never mentioned that she noticed anything off about me. I suppose we all have a type. One sometimes best avoided. Artists, specially illustrators, are likely forbidden territory to me now. I wouldn't agree with that. Perhaps those people know exactly what they want and don't waste their time treading water in an unfulfilling relationship. Look, you just... get a vibe from the right person. I know that's a pithy explanation, but it's true. Even when things are hard, they're easy. That's how you know. I may have been a bit sweeping with that generalization. I agree that, if a person finds a relationship unsatisfying even during that normally exciting-and-euphoric beginning phase, it is easy to understand why they wouldn't waste time. My jab was more at those like my most recent ex, who didn't seem to realize how those butterflies aren't meant to stick around. It doesn't apply to everyone by any means, because I'm sure there are certainly those that are mature enough...or comfortable enough with ambiguity...that they can walk into those situations blind. Now, I'm not much of a believer in "just knowing" or "just feeling it". Personally, I believe that's an illusion generated by chemistry and hormones. I realize that's not the vibe you're talking about, just throwing it out there. I just find relying solely on the "spark" to maintain a relationship a little...immature. Especially when that's something that waxes and wanes by nature, and sometimes needs to be mindfully maintained. I am fully and 100% in alignment with your point about things being easy even when they're hard. That takes a special kind of compatibility. To me, that's worth so much more than those heady romantic feelings that ebb and flow. I get that those are necessary too...otherwise this person is just a friend, but i can't help but find deep compatibility to be significantly more important. But, it's hard (not impossible) to determine how compatible you truly are when the chemistry of a new relationship is frequently so damned blinding. I tend to find that you need to progress beyond the honeymoon state "butterflies" to really determine if you "click" with someone. Until those rose colored glasses fall off, you cannot look at your partner clearly. Again, something I had with my most recent ex. Things were always easy. Probably too easy, actually. Without friction, the sparks stopped flying as fast. Leading back to my initial sweeping generalization which, admittedly, is a little bitter in its application: many (not all) who have only had brief relationships don't understand what "comes next" once those butterflies flutter off. I used to be that person, and it took a long time for me to realize that there is much more to love than the exciting beginnings. That I didn't need to feel giddy when someone was around or miss them horribly when they were gone to truly love them, and it wasn't a lesson I learned until I decided to stick it out and see what happened. It was then that I realized that "not feeling it" and "not feeling IT" were very different things - with the former being a dealbreaker and the latter requiring a bit more time and effort to examine first. Before that time, I was a bit of a serial monogamist. I judged girls, and my relationships with them, on my expectations of love. My expectations were unrealistic and impatient. And thus ends my far too wordy response. I wonder if it's too obvious that I dual majored in engineering and philosophy in school - I'm over analytical and glib, best of both worlds. Edited October 31, 2013 by Pfenixphire
Phoe Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I thought I had found one, but missed a big red flag (don't date anyone over 25 who's never had a relationship longer than 16 months...lesson learned!). How on earth is that a red flag? How on earth is 16 the magic number? I am almost 25 and have never had a relationship longer than 8 months. How would that make me undateable??? 1
Author Never Again Posted October 31, 2013 Author Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) How on earth is that a red flag? How on earth is 16 the magic number? I am almost 25 and have never had a relationship longer than 8 months. How would that make me undateable??? You picked that out of my overbearingly long post? Don't take it personally. As I said in my longer response post, it's said with a mild amount of bitterness/irony. It's a personal red flag. I tend to draw emotionally immature girls, and strings of brief relationships can be a warning sign of people who can't handle the "real thing". aspiringuitarheroine gave a really good example of how strings of short relationships can reveal decisiveness and self-knowledge, which are signs of maturity. However, I've been dumped more than once with the "I just don't know what I want from my life! ::sobs::" line. Given my history and poor choices, it's just something that I need to be wary of. Again, that doesn't make you emotionally immature. As for why 16 - the honeymoon period of a relationship typically ends within the first 10-18 months (it can end much earlier with extenuating circumstances, or can go on for two years or more, but these cases are more rare). The times where I've been burned the worst were when a girl chased me down, asked me to be in a relationship, threw out the L-word first, talked about moving in together...all within the first year...then backed out when things got "real". Basically, they "just knew" when I was the shiny new toy but backed out when it wasn't all fun/games/romance/butterflies anymore. Just boundaries I'm setting for myself. Someone awesome comes along, I may bend them. They're there to protect me from myself. That's all. Edited October 31, 2013 by Pfenixphire
Phoe Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 You picked that out of my overbearingly long post? Don't take it personally. As I said in my longer response post, it's said with a mild amount of bitterness/irony. It's a personal red flag. I tend to draw emotionally immature girls, and strings of brief relationships can be a warning sign of people who can't handle the "real thing". Haha, yeah, sorry to focus on THAT in particular, but it made no sense to me. Just because someone has not had any relationship longer than 16 months doesn't mean that they've just had strings of brief relationships. I've had 3 relationships. They were all short. But there were only 3. I went 6 years between the 2nd and 3rd one. The first 2 ended because the guy cheated on me, the last one the guy dumped me after a month. None of that is indicative of immaturity on my part, strings of relationships, or any kind of "habit" so to speak. I just don't want you to box yourself in by assuming that's a red flag.
AnyaNova Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Well, I am 1 for 3. My first relationship ever, he was emotionally abusive. Had some stated issues with his mother, but at least he was trying to individuate. My second relationship was pretty good, and lasted for 13 years. He, too, had some mother issues, however, he recognized the problem and was already working to correct it before he met me. Also had some anger issues, which basically were the cause of the dissolution of the relationship, but, he was never really abusive. And third time was definitely NOT the charm. Tim. Attachment issues and probably some mother issues (I think most people's mother's tend to try and NOT call on date night, but what do I know?) My radar seems to be a little off as well.
melell Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 It would be interesting to know stats on people who are mentally or emotionally imbalanced, or immature. Guy #1, I was 16 together a year. He was on medication, deeply disturbed. We are still in contact now, and obviously he is much older but is much the same, medicated and spends his time using girls. Guy#2 from 17-18 from a broken home 5 years older than me. Did a lot of drugs, ended up in jail for armed robbery. Very attractive, very bad. Has children now, but is still involved in the same things. Guy#3 from 18-26. An addict, bipolar disorder. A complete mess from day 1 really. Seriously concerned about this person committing suicide. I think we underestimate how common this kind of thing is. It doesn't matter their social or economic placing, what career, none of it. This kind of thing doesn't discriminate. I didn't seek this type of person at all, I am not attracted to it- hence the breakups. And I have yet to come across someone that I consider significantly 'together'. I wouldn't be too concerned about this. Live and learn.
Grumpybutfun Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Pfenixphire: I think you are being way too hard on yourself. The whole point to dating is to figure out what you like in another person...what you can live with, what values you need in another, how to know when to go when in a struggling or dysfunctional relationship, etc. Although, I think I have always been an aware/emotionally stable guy, I didn't have long term exclusive relationships with women, and I still managed to figure it out. I didn't want to lead people on with promises of commitment and loyalty when I knew I was just playing the field and having amazing experiences. I was very honest from the beginning and never once had a girl say no to a date when I said I wasn't boyfriend material. I don't know that I was immature, but I do know that I sowed the wild oats and then some so when I did commit, it was hardcore and she couldn't get rid of me with a nuclear missile. When the right girl came along, there wasn't anything in the world to suggest that I was ready for a LTR, but here we are 21 years later and she completely took a commitment and relationship newbie and made me very happy to be here. You sound very aware and that is good. Maybe instead of concentrating on specifics, you should just look at dating as finding the right fit and not put so much pressure on yourself. Know the red flags....like substance abuse problems, overwhelming depression that changes her personality, rebounds, immaturity, sexual addictions or frigidity, unnatural reliance on parents or ex-boyfriends, no ambition or motivations, and/or a history of dramatic relationships. You aren't doing anything really crazy here, Grumps
Author Never Again Posted October 31, 2013 Author Posted October 31, 2013 Haha, yeah, sorry to focus on THAT in particular, but it made no sense to me. Just because someone has not had any relationship longer than 16 months doesn't mean that they've just had strings of brief relationships. I just don't want you to box yourself in by assuming that's a red flag. I understand your point, and I apologize if I accidentally jabbed at you a little. It's not meant to insinuate that there are always strings of brief relationships in these cases (though that does apply to my most recent ex...different relationship every year, each one was about a year long, 2 months in between, for the last 10 years). I just have a tendency to date the emotionally immature. I've had to hand-hold them through how relationships work, and the last one just went off the rails due to her not knowing how relationships evolve. I'll try not to box myself in! A spark can't sustain a relationship, but it's good to have it in the beginning. I have a good spark with mine, but we're both also very level headed (he has to be, he has a child), and we're both very practical and laid back. We speak rationally about the relationship and not let the chemistry and hormones dictate the trajectory. But boy, they are fun! Real love grows and changes over time, just like people. Expecting the heady days of "OMG I want to rip your clothes off!!" to last long term is, as you said, a sign of immaturity. That's not necessarily 'the spark's' fault, it's the person for thinking attraction = longevity. There's a lot more to it than that. Okay, I'm not even going to split hairs here. I completely agree. A spark shouldn't be what makes or breaks a relationship - but it is what gets it going. I'm glad yours is practical and fun! My last relationship imploded exactly because she expected those head days to last - she felt we had "gone backwards" by being so close and passionate at the beginning and then slowing down (she was "friends" with all previous boyfriends before dating them...yet they all still ended within a yearish). I'll concede that you're right - it's not the "spark's" fault. It comes and goes, ebbs and flows, but a real relationship based on real love has substance that lasts beyond that. Well, it should anyways. Mine didn't, but again...immaturity
Author Never Again Posted October 31, 2013 Author Posted October 31, 2013 Pfenixphire: I think you are being way too hard on yourself. The whole point to dating is to figure out what you like in another person...what you can live with, what values you need in another, how to know when to go when in a struggling or dysfunctional relationship, etc. Although, I think I have always been an aware/emotionally stable guy, I didn't have long term exclusive relationships with women, and I still managed to figure it out. I didn't want to lead people on with promises of commitment and loyalty when I knew I was just playing the field and having amazing experiences. I was very honest from the beginning and never once had a girl say no to a date when I said I wasn't boyfriend material. I don't know that I was immature, but I do know that I sowed the wild oats and then some so when I did commit, it was hardcore and she couldn't get rid of me with a nuclear missile. When the right girl came along, there wasn't anything in the world to suggest that I was ready for a LTR, but here we are 21 years later and she completely took a commitment and relationship newbie and made me very happy to be here. You sound very aware and that is good. Maybe instead of concentrating on specifics, you should just look at dating as finding the right fit and not put so much pressure on yourself. Know the red flags....like substance abuse problems, overwhelming depression that changes her personality, rebounds, immaturity, sexual addictions or frigidity, unnatural reliance on parents or ex-boyfriends, no ambition or motivations, and/or a history of dramatic relationships. You aren't doing anything really crazy here, Grumps Thanks Grumps. Honestly, I think your frankness and honesty in those situations sets you apart as being incredibly mature. I agree that dating is about finding yourself, to some extent, and what you want in another. I can say that I believe to know most (perhaps not all) of this already. Digging into the specifics might be a bit much, but I have noticed an unfortunate trend in my dating habits. Mostly, that I seem to know what I want and am willing to support others - but they don't seem to know what they want, at least not while I'm with them. The red flags of immaturity and history of dramatic relationships have hit me a few times now, and I've only recently realized it.
lindsay1990 Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 The red flags of immaturity and history of dramatic relationships have hit me a few times now, and I've only recently realized it. This is what I was going to say. Obviously these people had to have many redeaming qualities and yoou are not discounting this, I think what we need to learn as we grow up is: - when to give up and when to try harder - when to not give up, but take a BIG step back from the relationship and maybe even some space Personally, in my most recent relationship I insisted on trying harder and not giving up, but as time goes by (in NC, mind you) I realize how much it would have helped to take some space and evaluate the issues and they really could have been solved I believe (at least as much as they could have been back then) because I am confident now that both my ex and specially myself, acted out in reactive ways other feelings we had that have surfaced now... so.... maybe I'm not making sense but yes, it's the red flags and our apparent counterinstinctive inability to take a step back in the face of them and just cling harder.
Author Never Again Posted October 31, 2013 Author Posted October 31, 2013 This is what I was going to say. Obviously these people had to have many redeaming qualities and yoou are not discounting this, I think what we need to learn as we grow up is: - when to give up and when to try harder - when to not give up, but take a BIG step back from the relationship and maybe even some space Personally, in my most recent relationship I insisted on trying harder and not giving up, but as time goes by (in NC, mind you) I realize how much it would have helped to take some space and evaluate the issues and they really could have been solved I believe (at least as much as they could have been back then) because I am confident now that both my ex and specially myself, acted out in reactive ways other feelings we had that have surfaced now... so.... maybe I'm not making sense but yes, it's the red flags and our apparent counterinstinctive inability to take a step back in the face of them and just cling harder. I can see what you're saying. I think what we all need to learn as we grow, myself included (apparently I haven't learned this yet), is when to communicate effectively to determine the best solution. Too often, people stay silent and let little problems fester. Not just in relationships, but in life. Anxiety, resentments and doubt build to a breaking point, and then something drastic must be done. Effectively and timely communication would, in my opinion, lead to more solutions all around, relationships included (by solutions, I don't just mean relationships "making it"...I also include an increase in amicable breakups...or at least a decrease in breakups "out of the blue").
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