Wants vs. needs

[lucy_in_disguise]

How do you distinguish between wants and needs, and what's the right balance to marry someone?

 

I've never gotten over my first love. Before you lynch me, according to Internet statistics, that's not uncommon. Some psychologists speculate first love has an effect on the brain similar to trauma, cutting deep, leaving permanent scars.

 

My first love was more traumatic than most. Still, It embarrasses me to admit that at age 29, I'm still not really over it. I know it's biological, some faulty wiring in my brain that has frozen those years in time for me, assigning so much value that up to now, nothing has held as much meaning.

 

He's the only one I've ever wanted. I wish it weren't so.

 

Yet, we're not together. I have met many men who would make better husbands and fathers, who could meet all my needs.

 

Will I regret settling for someone else in this situation? How do I move past this?

 

(been in therapy for 3 years, not in contact with ex, in a good relationship)

[Philosoraptor]

In my opinion "needs" have no place in a marriage. In my life I've learned to "need" no one, and because of that I am much happier. Those in my life I want there.

 

Relationship wise my fiancee is always saying things like "you didn't need to do that" (referring to something nice I did) and my response is always "I made the choice to as I wanted to make you smile, if I didn't want to do it I wouldn't have". As need has always come off to me as not being able to self sustain or make your own decisions.

[sunshinegirl]

I don't know what to tell you other than...perhaps seek a different therapist?

 

If you've been spinning your wheels for 3 years and have made no progress in moving past your first love, maybe a different therapeutic approach is needed.

 

Yes, first loves are often unfortgettable, but it's also true that the vast, vast majority of us are able to move on and fall in love with someone else.

 

I'll throw out the possibility that there's something beyond the biological going on, where there's some kind of psychological/emotional "payoff" for you to remain stuck on this person.

 

Good luck.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

How do you distinguish between wants and needs, and what's the right balance to marry someone?

 

I've never gotten over my first love. Before you lynch me, according to Internet statistics, that's not uncommon. Some psychologists speculate first love has an effect on the brain similar to trauma, cutting deep, leaving permanent scars.

 

My first love was more traumatic than most. Still, It embarrasses me to admit that at age 29, I'm still not really over it. I know it's biological, some faulty wiring in my brain that has frozen those years in time for me, assigning so much value that up to now, nothing has held as much meaning.

 

He's the only one I've ever wanted. I wish it weren't so.

 

Yet, we're not together. I have met many men who would make better husbands and fathers, who could meet all my needs.

 

Will I regret settling for someone else in this situation? How do I move past this?

 

(been in therapy for 3 years, not in contact with ex, in a good relationship)

 

 

Lucy, I can identify with your situation and I'm in my mid-late 30s. Recently I slipped into a depression thinking about my first love. It's the only break up I haven't been able to get over. I put it out of my mind for the better part of 20 years but those memories are there and they come to the surface now and then.

 

It was traumatic for me, left me stunned, and I used alcohol to numb the pain (I was 16).

 

Great girl, very loving and as addicted to me as I was to her. I had major emotional and attachment issues so it didn't work out. I've met a lot of girls and very few of them even compared.

 

With every fiber of my being wanting otherwise, I knew she needed to leave me. She had a big heart and much love to give someone.

 

Now I want to talk to her, maybe catch up. Nothing romantic, but possibly an opportunity for me to apologize. I don't know if it's the right thing to do, but I can't ignore it. After 20 years, I think it's worth a shot.

 

I need to let go but I don't want to.

 

I had to accept that many of us don't get to end up with the one we loved the most. The irreplaceable mark they leave on us, we have to be thankful for it. We had something amazing in our hands, held it to the sky, and now it's gone. It's a beautiful scar, not an ugly one.

[lucy_in_disguise]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Therapy has been helpful to keep me focused on the future and on improving my relationships with people who are currently in my life.

 

I don't actively pine for my ex. It's more like a dull longing and nagging doubts about the choices that I've made. And occasionally, an overwhelming belief that what could have been, would have been better.

 

When I began seeing this therapist, she wanted to try EMDR, a technique to "reprocess" memories, but it sounded too weird for me. We went with a more traditional approach, just talking about it, and eventually moved on to focus on real-life issues. As far as the past affecting my current relationship, she is of the opnion that my current boyfriend may not be right for me for other reasons, though my being in therapy has strengthened our relationship substantially. We're at a place where I think we have the tools to make it work. Trust, communication, lifestyle, sexual compatibility.... All there.

 

The only thing missing is desire. I wish it was something I could manufacture. I've never felt it since my first love. My therapist believes I could find it again, though perhaps not with my current boyfriend, and that I owe it to myself to try.

 

I'm not so sure. What's been lacking in my subsequent reltionships is that deep connection- the freedom to be share my innermost thoughts. My innermost thoughts tend to be pretty unusual so I believe looking for someone I can have that with would be like searching for a needle in a haystack.

[lucy_in_disguise]

Lucy, I can identify with your situation and I'm in my mid-late 30s. Recently I slipped into a depression thinking about my first love. It's the only break up I haven't been able to get over. I put it out of my mind for the better part of 20 years but those memories are there and they come to the surface now and then.

 

It was traumatic for me, left me stunned, and I used alcohol to numb the pain (I was 16).

 

Great girl, very loving and as addicted to me as I was to her. I had major emotional and attachment issues so it didn't work out. I've met a lot of girls and very few of them even compared.

 

With every fiber of my being wanting otherwise, I knew she needed to leave me. She had a big heart and much love to give someone.

 

Now I want to talk to her, maybe catch up. Nothing romantic, but possibly an opportunity for me to apologize. I don't know if it's the right thing to do, but I can't ignore it. After 20 years, I think it's worth a shot.

 

I need to let go but I don't want to.

 

I had to accept that many of us don't get to end up with the one we loved the most. The irreplaceable mark they leave on us, we have to be thankful for it. We had something amazing in our hands, held it to the sky, and now it's gone. It's a beautiful scar, not an ugly one.

 

It's funny how descriptions of first live are often similar. "Every fiber of my being" etc. I dont hear many spouses using that phrase.

 

I think for many people the first love is true. Before we learn about dealbreakers and compromise, leagues and earning potential, the first love is unconditional, selfless, irreplaceable.

 

What you said about not ending up with the person we loved the most... I struggled with that for years. Now I have mostly accepted it. I know it won't stop me from getting married and having a family, from building a life with someone else. I guess im at the point where that may be my reality soon. For one last time, I wonder, what if...

Edited October 30, 2013 by lucy_in_disguise

[Zapbasket]

I hear you.

 

I no longer feel my first love was The One, but I do feel the scar from the ending of that relationship was a deep one. It took me a long time to fully recover from that breakup. He had sent me a very cold email that cut deeply, and now that my current ex has ended things with a very similarly worded email, I'm reliving that first time, feeling how much it hurt me and in therapy having an opportunity to "rewrite" the stories I told myself about what receiving such an email "meant."

 

You know, if you have that little tug of "what if" all these years later, while it might have more to do with lacks in your current relationship, there is something to be said about what I call the data of the heart. It's beyond logic and in fact rarely makes any kind of practical sense, but it is valid. Great movements in life have been made because of people listening to the data of their hearts over the pragmatism of their brains. It can be deceiving, too, if entangled in unhealthy presuppositions and longings...but we all owe it to ourselves to give it a good listen.

 

Maybe you need to reach out one last time to this person from your past, just to resolve your doubts? It might be enlightening what you find, either way it goes.

[RavenWolf]

I actually have loved my ex since I was 12 years old. He was my first love and I have looked for him for the past 20 years, since his family moved away while we were in high school.

 

I finally found him and we have been in contact for a couple of months and still have a very deep and easy connection. In fact, he told me today that he is never found "the one" and that he hadn't found the girl he wanted to marry..."until now." He has never been married and no kids of his own.

 

We did not break up on bad terms. He and I never had an argument or disagreement. We always had great communication and now, 20 years later, it's like we never skipped a beat.

 

I think it's worth a try to reconnect with first loves. If nothing else, you may gain closure. I was fully expecting him to be happily married with kids and just wanted to know he was doing well.

 

Instead, he moved half way across the country to be near me and get to know my kids!

[lucy_in_disguise]

I actually had reached out about 4 years ago. The way we broke up had left me with unresolved issues and I went back to my college town to meet up with him and gain some closure.

 

To give you more background, he went NC after the last time we broke up. (Actually, I went NC, but he could no be reached when I changed my mind about wanting to stay friends a week later). The loss of his friendship, at a time in my life when I felt the worlds patience for my antics had run thin, devastated me even more than the actual breakup. Call me naive, but throughout our relationship, I never believed we could end up not together. When we did, and he didn't even want to be my friend, I questioned what had been real, if he ever loved me, etc. ... For years.

 

So 4 years ago I went back to my college town and we met up for dinner. He was seeing someone else, and I was too, but we talked about what happened. We apologized for hurting each other and he explained that he loved me, would always love me, but he hadn't been ready... And was not sure he ever would be, for what I wanted. At the time, he was unemployed and dating a girl who had just graduated from high school (he was in his mid-twenties by then).

 

Being with him brought back all the old feelings, and erased all doubt in my mind that our connection was real. But I could I finally accept that despite that, we would probably not end up together. I appreciated that he recognized he could not meet my needs, and chose to stay out I my life.

 

Still, it hurt like hlel, all over again. I spent 4 days in bed alternating between sleep and crying, not bothering to eat or go to my job. I broke up with my boyfriend, that relationship suddenly meaningless. Seeing my ex had reawakened my hunger, and it left me exhausted.

 

Still. I had gotten my closure.

 

In the subsequent years, we stayed in touch until he brought up getting back together, then backed way. Then I met my current bf, anrope omitted him is never talk to the ex again. He's called a few times but I never answered. Burn me once...

 

I guess ive been thinking about him lately cause my bf is about to move in, and that represents a big commitment. Against my good judgement, I still wonder, what if...

[lucy_in_disguise]

I was feeling particularly depressed last night and started making a list of all the reasons I still love him (my ex):

 

Ex

Understands math

Smart

Understands me

We are irrelacable to one another

Can read my thoughts

Want his babies badly

 

Then I made a list of the reasons I love my boyfriend:

 

Bf

Kind

Considerate

Loyal

Stable

Loving

 

The first list is specific to my ex. No one has been able to to him in those categories as far as I am concerned.

 

The second list is a generic list of qualities women look for in a partner.

 

Is it more important to have specifi reasons for loving that specific person? Or that your partner meets the general requirements?

 

Ive heard it both ways...

[crederer]

For starters, I'd get a new therapist.

 

Secondly, I'd stop making lists about what you like so much about your ex (understands math? WTF?). That's not going to help you move on.

 

It is normal to always have some sort of feelings for any ex, but to be completely hung up like you are, is not, in my opinion.

 

Everyone has had a first love and most have lost that first love. Most are able to move on from it at a certain point in their life.

 

Quite frankly I feel sorry for your current boyfriend. I don't know if you are really in a mental state to be in a real relationship right now. Are you afraid of being alone?

[lucy_in_disguise]

I feel bad for him too. I'm not like this all the time, taking trips down memory lane. I don't know what's gotten into me the last few weeks.

 

Am I afraid of being alone... I don't think so. I want to get married and have kids and siiht though. This relationship has been a good one.

[lucy_in_disguise]

I feel like one of those wayward spouse you read about on ls, so lost in the fog of the affair that she is totally checked out from her relationship. We had a fight last night and I really struggled to come up with any empathy. Im definitely demonizing my bf, too, nit picking at little issues to give myself the green light to leave. How ironic that I am able to make the fog all by myself.

[sunshinegirl]

I feel like one of those wayward spouse you read about on ls, so lost in the fog of the affair that she is totally checked out from her relationship. We had a fight last night and I really struggled to come up with any empathy. Im definitely demonizing my bf, too, nit picking at little issues to give myself the green light to leave. How ironic that I am able to make the fog all by myself.

 

Please break up with him. I feel bad for him, that he's competing against somebody who "understands math."

 

Let him go to find someone who truly appreciates his "Kind, Considerate, Loyal, Stable, Loving" qualities.

 

(And, to be clear, it's not a crime not to be in love with your boyfriend. Just because you think you "should" love him because of the above qualities doesn't mean you actually do, or that you should stay in the relationship no matter what.)

 

(It's a wholly separate thing that I think it's ridiculous you're hung up on someone who "understands math" - a quality that has, AFAIK, ZERO to do with having, building, or creating a loving or stable long-term relationship.)

Edited November 7, 2013 by sunshinegirl

[lucy_in_disguise]

I know it's ridiculous, too. Yet I haven't been able to swallow that my bf can't perform simple algebra. He is good at so many other things and I know it shouldn't matter. But numbers are a large part of my life (my profession) and they influence the way I think. I want to be able to share that in my relationship and miss the theoretical discussions I used to have with my ex.

 

SSG, you say it's not a crime not to be in love with my bf, but I always sense judgement when I express my feelings (or lack thereof) about such a great guy. Is there something wrong with me for not being able to fall in love, despite his great qualities? Am I in live with him, just in a different way than my ex? I know I care a great deal about him and show it through actions and sacrifices. These are the questions I struggle with as I try to figure out how to proceed.

[curiousGeorge2]

My first love was also traumatic, and it took seven years and an emotional affair with a married woman to get out of it.

 

I always thought that the affair with the married woman has something to do with the first love, at least subconsciously.

Edited November 9, 2013 by curiousGeorge2

[xxoo]

I was feeling particularly depressed last night and started making a list of all the reasons I still love him (my ex):

 

Ex

Understands math

Smart

Understands me

We are irrelacable to one another

Can read my thoughts

Want his babies badly

 

Then I made a list of the reasons I love my boyfriend:

 

Bf

Kind

Considerate

Loyal

Stable

Loving

 

The first list is specific to my ex. No one has been able to to him in those categories as far as I am concerned.

 

The second list is a generic list of qualities women look for in a partner.

 

Is it more important to have specifi reasons for loving that specific person? Or that your partner meets the general requirements?

 

Ive heard it both ways...

 

Is your ex NOT the second list? He is not kind, considerate, loyal, stable, and loving?

 

I suspect that you place importance on the specific things about your ex because you feel connection and chemistry with him and feel that rush of pleasurable feelings around him--and you associate that with him and his specific qualities. If you fell in love with a man with different specific qualities, you'd favor those qualities.

[Els]

I know it's ridiculous, too. Yet I haven't been able to swallow that my bf can't perform simple algebra. He is good at so many other things and I know it shouldn't matter. But numbers are a large part of my life (my profession) and they influence the way I think. I want to be able to share that in my relationship and miss the theoretical discussions I used to have with my ex.

 

I'm not sure if this necessarily means your ex is influencing your current R, to be honest. It sounds like you've always been attracted to math-capable guys (as evidenced by your choice of profession) and that was what led you to be with your ex. You can't force attraction.

[Zapbasket]

I was feeling particularly depressed last night and started making a list of all the reasons I still love him (my ex):

 

Ex

Understands math

Smart

Understands me

We are irrelacable to one another

Can read my thoughts

Want his babies badly

 

Then I made a list of the reasons I love my boyfriend:

 

Bf

Kind

Considerate

Loyal

Stable

Loving

 

The first list is specific to my ex. No one has been able to to him in those categories as far as I am concerned.

 

The second list is a generic list of qualities women look for in a partner.

 

Is it more important to have specifi reasons for loving that specific person? Or that your partner meets the general requirements?

 

Ive heard it both ways...

 

 

I think that sometimes, when we make lists about *attributes* another person has, we place too much significance on attributes that are more "looks good on paper" than factors that shape a relationship positively in a deep sense. How about a list instead of how each relationship makes you FEEL?

 

For instance, why did you and your ex break up? I know on one of my threads you mentioned that later on your ex apologized to you for being "unable" to give you the relationship you wanted back when you two were dating. What did you feel you were not getting from him; what did he feel he "couldn't" or "wouldn't" give you? Was there some kind of tension or drama that while "exciting" in some sense, ultimately led to your breaking up?

 

Likewise, with your current partner, when he is loving, does it not feel as *specific* to you as with your ex, whom you say truly "gets" you?

 

Also: which of the two men shows up the most consistently? Whom can you rely upon no matter what?

 

And if you found out today that you had only six months to live, that you could be perfectly healthy during that time to do anything you dreamed but that you would "expire" utterly when the time was done, which man would you want to spend that time with?

 

To this last question, if the answer is the ex, then you owe it to yourself, to the ex, and to your current partner to take that risk of laying bare your feelings and asking for another shot with your ex.

 

I'm a romantic and I believe that big risks sometimes are the only way we can get the life we dream of. But sometimes in that effort, we lose everything. Perhaps, though, if this truly is a dilemma for you, the risk of being alone rather than with one and fantasizing about the other, or with the other where it's perhaps doomed to fail for the same reasons it failed the first time, is the best thing for you.

 

And conversely, it's possible also that you might get exactly what you want (if the answer to my last question was your ex), and enjoy the contentment that living true to your inmost being brings.

[lucy_in_disguise]

Thanks for the thought-provoking questions, guys. I've been pondering on this siht the last week.

 

Is my ex not loving, loyal, considerate, etc.?

Not to the extent that my bf is.

 

I believe based on my observations that some people are relationship people, and some are not. Realistically, it's probably a spectrum.

 

My ex falls firmly on the side of.... Not relationship material. He is the loner type with very specific interests. Perhaps a touch of aspergers? He sucks at relating to people.

 

So consideration- in how you would normally think of it- out.

 

He CAN be VERY thoughtful. in recent weeks, I've been remembering his sweetness. He loved me at 18.,, you can bet there were some real sweet moments.

 

But I know it would be frustrating to date him. Social norms tend to elude him, which used to upset me. He'd forget my birthday, I'd get pissed or cry.

 

Loyal? He dumped me. I forgive him for that.... Really I do. With all the crazy siht I did and how heated it got.... He should have done it sooner. I truly have forgiven... It could not have been any other way.

 

But to trust again. That might be hard.

 

Loving is a tough one. You can love with your brain and your heart. I love my ex with my heart. Unconsciously and irrationally. It's a love I can't control, and I've accepted that.

 

I always believed it was the same way for him. When I am with him, there is not a single doubt in my mind.

 

But we're not together. I'm about to move in with someone else, whom Im lucky to have. And love so much too.

 

I wish I didn't have these old times feelings.

[lucy_in_disguise]

Why did we break up?

 

We were young and he didn't feel like he could give me what I wanted. He wanted to play video games with his friends, I wanted to go on dates and talk about the future. I wanted him to treat me "right"... Which goes back to considerate from above. He sucked at taking hints and didn't want to put in that much effort.

 

In short, he was a pretty siht boyfriend according to much of the standard criteria, and I was a crzay bctih.

 

Based on the description so far, you may wonder what I saw in him.

 

He could read my mind

He was faithful

He made me feel loved... Like I was the one, irreplaceable, not just a gf with a bunch of nice qualities.

We could talk for hours and still be interested in the conversation

I never had to doubt. My love. Or his. No matter what, I know it will persist.

 

I'm just not sure that's nearly enough to be together.

[lucy_in_disguise]

If I knew I would die in a month, who would I choose to be with?

 

That's tough and goes back to what this nostalgia means for me.

 

I'm not convinced these memory-feelings are real. What if my ex doesn't love me and barely ever did, and I am a dumbass for leaving someone who does... Could... To chase some ahsole? Given how crazy that relationship always made me feel when it ended (more alone than I started... Because I finally knew how it felt to not be alone) that scenario is pretty realistic.

 

On the other hand... If I am just listening to my heart...

[lucy_in_disguise]

What I'm saying is, it's a big risk. Based on my calculations, it's not worth taking. I am already happy... What is the point of risking it all?

[dichotomy]

 

The only thing missing is desire. I wish it was something I could manufacture. I've never felt it since my first love. My therapist believes I could find it again, though perhaps not with my current boyfriend, and that I owe it to myself to try.

 

I'm not so sure. What's been lacking in my subsequent reltionships is that deep connection- the freedom to be share my innermost thoughts. My innermost thoughts tend to be pretty unusual so I believe looking for someone I can have that with would be like searching for a needle in a haystack.

 

 

 

I think this about sums it up. It sounds like you do love and appreciate your BF's qualities, but you lack desire for him. Let me tell you - if you don't have it (deep desire) it AINT going to happen later. Most LTR or marriages struggle to maintain or reignite the desire they did have in the early days - but it sounds like you don't even have this now.

 

Again hot desire most times tends to dull to a slow simmer later, and then other qualities in a mate are more important, but i do think you need this at firtst. Also beyond the desire is what you mention in the second part above - and ability to connect and share your innermost self and feelings. That is also a red flag - and also what true love is.

 

I don't think its really about your first love - but you know what it is like to have the connection and you have not found it yet - just a great guy. Please don't get into a LTR or even marry a "just a great guy" without having that deep connection too - its not fair to him.

 

And yes - I every now and then think about my first love, but I will be a little honest I do this not because of really how I felt about her or a longing for her - but because I remember how much she loved/desired me. I have rarely seen that look in a woman's eyes for me - except the day I proposed to my current wife.

 

Now go find a guy where you have "that look" in your eyes for him.

[TiredFamilyGuy]

The classic young woman's dilemma.

 

Whether to go for the thrill, the one who gets you dreamy or hot and bothered.

 

Or for the one you feel is the relatively boring nice stable guy, but safe.

 

Mr Stable would be a better partner to raise a family with, and for pretty much every other logistical reason. Obviously.

 

With Mr Dream there is an outside chance the practical stuff could fall into line and then you would have your dream, supposedly the best of all worlds. But you know it'll take a lot of effort and probably won't work out.

 

Whatever you do, decide and act. A dilemma can be solved only by choice.

 

Meanwhile you are screwing up your current relationship - unfavourable comparisons with and old flame, in your head, will do that.

 

While you are dizzy with alternatives your current boyfriend, has no idea how or why he does not ring your romantic chimes.

 

I say, fly off for love and let your bf find someone for whom he will represent the thrill and dream. Don't waste his life while you luxuriate in your list-making delicious agony.

Edited November 17, 2013 by TiredFamilyGuy