Is the single person in an affair 'cheating' ?

[rumbleseat]

I posted a thread in General about posting an ad for a travel partner. No one in a relationship qualify's for the position, they would spend a year with me travelling the world without it costing them one cent. At the end of the year they would be compensated with an additional $100,000.00 after tax to help them get reestablished. No cheating is involved, I wasn't going to dictate where we went, we would decide together and intimacy would be a factor. Two adults who are not in a relationship with anyone else would agree to be a couple for a year with no one else knowing. I don't want another bad relationship specially with another cheater. We are both seeking a temporary happiness, it's a conscious decision by two adults and we are not hurting someone we are committed to yet posters thought I was somehow turning them into something else with the offer. Would you consider that as an example of me seeking my own own happiness at the cost of others? We are not lying to a spouse, we are not sneaking around anyone's back, we never broke an oath, just two people on an adventure.

 

As long as you both go into it knowing the parameters and are honest with each other ( and aren't cheating on someone to do it), then this isn't seeking happiness at someone else's expense.

 

This sounds like an old song I heard once I think it's called "we'll sing in the sunshine"

Edited October 30, 2013 by rumbleseat

[ComingInHot]

wthf wrote, "fidelity in M is Not universally moral code"

 

ONLY IF the vows of Fidelity are left out.

 

Maybe there should be pins made for those who married but left out "forsake all others" THEN unmarried people who have compromised moral codes can have their Own special pin letting people know, "I help take M'd people usunder".

 

What a great way for M'd people to locate others who have no moral "fidelity" code.

 

But curse those who have taken the marriage vow that includes "forsaking all others" then cheat, as well as those encouraging and enabling the cheating.

 

Not cool.

[Owl]

Here's an analogy that kind of helps shed some light on my viewpoint reference the original post/question.

 

Some people smoke. Some do not.

 

Smoking in itself isn't offensive if its done in a manner that only impacts the person smoking. If their values/beliefs are such that smoking is OK...as long as they keep their smoking confined to themselves...only hurting themselves with it...it's up to them.

 

Infidelity is like smoking. Some find it offensive. Some do not.

 

Those that don't find it offensive aren't 'wrong' until their beliefs or choices impact others.

 

Being the A partner is like smoking a cigarette and blowing the smoke out in the face of someone who can do nothing to stop you. They aren't given a choice as to whether or not they want to breathe your smoke...they're FORCED to do so, whether they want to or not.

 

Sleeping with a married person...because you don't value marriage...still steals away the choice of the other married partner who is decieved and not given an option in the situation.

 

It's that simple. I don't care what culture you're from (we've heard this argument from a formerly banned poster MANY MANY MANY times)...whether or not YOU value fidelity is irrelevent if you're allowing YOUR values to interfere with the values of someone else. You're robbing them of their choices, of their values.

 

Cheating or not...it's still theft of someone else's choices. Would you like someone to come into your life, and rob you of your choices? Force you to accept values that you don't agree with?

 

Your choice to live by your own values is great...as long as you don't allow your values to be forced on others by that choice.

 

Hope this spells it out so that even folks from other cultures get it now.

[Shepp]

Is it cheating on someone? No

Is it being dishonest? Yes

Does it say something about your character & values? Yes

 

Its not as bad as the person actually cheating because there stabbing someone In the back, betraying someone's trust in the deepest sense and hurting someone they promised to protect. You made no such promises so aren't betraying anyone but your still aiding someone else too.

 

 

If a guy steals money from a bank safe and you help him by waving a gun around and keeping everyone on the floor:

Did you technically steal the money? No

We're you breaking the law? Yes

Do you get the same prison sentence? Yes

 

Sure he could of got someone else to steal the money if her really wanted to but would "He chose me but if it wasn't be he'd of picked someone else your honour" keep you out of jail - of course not! Cause you know right from wrong and you've got a voice and you said yes.

[Shepp]

There have always been people who do not care who they hurt, so long as they have their needs met. They have no problem with dishonesty, so long as it bennifits them.

 

This does not mean that every person who cheats or is an ow/om fits this category, many do not. Many have consciences that prick them and they feel bad about it, but they push that part down as it;s the only way they can do what they are doing.

 

I don't think what you feel deep down means s***, you can only be judges on your actions what you feel or think/wish you feel doesn't mean a thing it it doesn't change your actions.

So to me there is only one category.

[BetrayedH]

I find it interesting that citing the 95% catholic demographic is somehow bigoted but saying that cheating is "almost expected" of Italian and Latino men is not bigoted. I wonder which they might find most offensive. It's also interesting these cultures would be the ones cited as generally accepting of cheating considering that those cultures are predominantly Catholic (where adultery is just about the only sin that justifies a divorce). How odd that cultures so religious would be cited as the ones most accepting of adultery, especially when it's already been proposed that religion is that from which morality stems.

 

Seems like a lot of mental gymnastics to me and frankly, disingenuous. How predictable that such arguments come from an unapologetic OW.

 

As well, in my simplistic view, participating in the betrayal of another person is wrong, regardless of cultural views or conveniently shifting "differences" in morality. Finding it ok to help betray another person isn't "different" morality; it is the absence of it.

Edited October 30, 2013 by BetrayedH

[Shepp]

Well, I feel terrible that my guy's ex wife was hurt. But I also understand why he stepped out on her, and why he left the marriage. I don't feel I crushed her spirit. I feel she checked out of the marriage years ago and she knows it. She can cry about how he's left her now, but why didn't she do a single thing to make things better when he was begging her years ago? So, go ahead and blame him, and me, but she made the choice to break their vows long before he did. I'm just grateful he didn't drag it out, that he got out of the marriage and on with his life. He's a much happier, calmer, sweeter person without her making him feel worthless every day. It goes both ways.

 

It doesn't matter why thought, well maybe if it does to the person then that's enough to straighten it in there own head, but it wouldn't to me.

 

Its stabbing someone in the back, pure and simple. and I don't think there's ever a why in the whole world that excuses that. There is only one reason people do it, whatever they say, and that's - there too much of a coward to fight they're foe head on.

 

It doesn't matter if your wife acts like the wicked witch of the west, you have a choice - stab her in the back (cheat) or be a man and tell her (its over or, your not happy, hell even try your luck with telling her your going to see someone else - but tell her, face up to it).

Same as it doesn't matter if your actually fighting the wicked witch of the west - you sneak up behind and stab her in the back or you turn her around and fight it out like a man.

[peaksandvalleys]

stray dogs, 10 commandments and now "certain cultures" and differing moralities where it is okay to cheat.

 

My head hurts.

 

No. It is not okay to cheat. And yes. Single APs are still cheating.

 

What's next? the Book of Revelation? The teachings of Nostradamus? the Ashley Madison web site survey? The Sudan rebels?

 

night all.....

 

 

Funny how I got hounded for being angry, was unhinged, going to lose my children, doing juvenile stuff. Seems like I was being held to someone else's morality. Since I did nothing illegal. Just thinking out loud here.

[cocorico]

What are your thoughts on that.. .

 

No.

 

As posted elsewhere, my understanding of cheating is:

 

Knowing the rules, agreeing to the rules, choosing to deceive others into believing you are observing the rules while flouting the rules for personal gain.

 

A single person is not a party to agreeing, or even knowing, the rules of someone else's M, so they are not bound by those.

 

The married parties are - whatever it is they have explicitly agreed with each other, and lead each other to believe they are continuing to observe, are the rules they are bound by.

 

(Hence, if they had agreed not to have kids, and the W "accidentally" sabotages the agreed birth control regimen without telling the H, falls pregnant and refuses an abortion - that's cheating.

 

If, having agreed to share their bodies with each other, one partner starts withholding sex for reasons fully within their control without negotiating a new dispensation with their partner - that's cheating.

 

If both partners have agreed to keep their finances separate, and contribute an agreed amount to a joint kitty every month for household expenses, and one partner starts making unnecessary purchases for personal benefit from the joint kitty - that's cheating.

 

Likewise, if both partners had agreed that sexual exclusivity would not be a part of their M, and that the M was for tax purposes only, bit then subsequently decided that their spouse should be sexually exclusive to them but did not discuss this change in view with their spouse - that's also cheating.)

[goodyblue]

It doesn't matter why thought, well maybe if it does to the person then that's enough to straighten it in there own head, but it wouldn't to me.

 

Its stabbing someone in the back, pure and simple. and I don't think there's ever a why in the whole world that excuses that. There is only one reason people do it, whatever they say, and that's - there too much of a coward to fight they're foe head on.

 

It doesn't matter if your wife acts like the wicked witch of the west, you have a choice - stab her in the back (cheat) or be a man and tell her (its over or, your not happy, hell even try your luck with telling her your going to see someone else - but tell her, face up to it).

Same as it doesn't matter if your actually fighting the wicked witch of the west - you sneak up behind and stab her in the back or you turn her around and fight it out like a man.

 

Well, being told 'no more children' and 'no more sex, ever' is a pretty big pill to swallow, esp. when you don't believe in divorce. And we did engage in a short term affair before him leaving. We both regret that. I'm not saying it was right, I'm simply saying there were reasons. He did leave soon after and divorced her. She'll always be bitter and will never take responsibility for her failings in the marriage, and that's fine. We've moved beyond it. She is not part of our lives. His children are fine with things and understand. He certainly didn't fight her like a man. He treated her fairly and made sure she got what she deserved in the settlement. Should have more than made up for anything he did after years of neglect.

[underwater2010]

Yep. In my situation with exMM, he and his ex wife lived as roommates - and barely that. They had conversations about the kids and the house - and that was pretty much it. It wasn't hurtful at all. I understood that he wanted to continue to live with his kids - that makes total sense to me. I understood that his wife wanted to continue to live with the kids. And really, aside from having no intimacy, they were able to coexist without much issue most of the time. In fact, since their divorce, and the expectations that an intimate relationship would exist between them is gone - they get along fine. They coparent well, mostly. But, if they just met today? Neither of them would choose to have anything to do with the other - probably not even a friendship.

 

His wife had informed choice ability. She knew, she agreed by not disagreeing (and refusing to discuss it at all, she couldn't be bothered) and she stayed married. She could have divorced him at any time - but she didn't - she told him she stayed for the kids. So, I guess they were both lying about staying for the kids- or maybe they were both telling the truth, lol.

 

I agree with what you have written here. When done in secret and purposely deceiving your SO, that is wrong. The affair itself isn't wrong (my opinion), but lying IS wrong (in my morality). But, not all WSs lie - I know that some want to think they do - but that would also mean that they lie after and during reconciliation too - you can't have that both ways. Some are very honest - and mine was - about his feelings his thoughts and his marriage. To this day, there isn't a thing that has come up that has made me think he wasn't honest with me or her about everything.

Can you remind us again how long the affair was going on and exactly how his BW found out?

[underwater2010]

Can you remind us again how long the affair was going on and exactly how his BW found out?

Oh and how long the affair was going on before she found out?

[Shepp]

when you don't believe in divorce.

Not believing in divorce but believing in cheating - with all due respect, in my opinion that's a strange set of morals!

 

Should have more than made up for anything he did after years of neglect.

I dunno, it wouldn't for me. Loyalty it the most important thing in my world and to me a million bucks couldn't undo disloyalty.

 

 

I know people talk about reasons but to me from no angle do I ever see a reason to be disloyal! I just cant see one! Its unnecessary.

 

My word is my bond and for all my faults, and there are plenty, I hope if people know me for one thing they know me for that! Im not saying im always 100% honest, but im 100% loyal. And I would throw that away for sex or for anything else.