ZombieEye Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 I was wondering if anyone else in R had a problem hearing those words or if it's just me. Last year I found out about my WH infidelities - and he immediately, literally almost immediately since he had to wait until morning, contacted a marriage counselor, not long after started individual counseling, read everything on how to help me heal AND implemented it all. I agreed not to kick him out while he was complying with all my demands (NC, no porn, staying in counseling, etc) and to see if we could make something new out of this mess. Because in my mind our marriage ended the moment that he broke his vows. Sure, we're legally married, but it's all over but the paper work in my opinion. I'm not sure if I modified that either, but I'm waiting it out. He's been amazing though, withstanding all of my freakouts, answering all of my questions, and working very hard on his issues in IC. (I'm in IC too) Still, I don't want to hear "I love you" from him. He'd said that all along to me, all those years of lying. He said he said them to her, maybe once or twice. So I don't want to hear it. Every time he says it, it's a trigger. It feels like a lie. I said I want to have him show it through his actions, not his words anymore. The counselor says he has every right to say them if that's what he feels. He insists that's what he feels. Which always makes me think that clearly he didn't love me while he was doing all that but now he does suddenly? So I still don't like it. That's what those words mean to me now. Am I making too much of this issue? Is this a problem for anyone else?
2sure Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 I had the exact same trigger myself. When we were trying to stay together, I could not stand to hear it . I understand the MC saying he has every right to express how he feels. But it was such a strong trigger to me, like a slap in the face. I knew he meant it too, I knew he loved me. I don't know if that made it better or worse. We divorced, without my overcoming that, and because of a different reason. But I think that being able to hear ILY from him is probably a big step in accepting his love for you. Maybe you can, maybe you can't. 1
Betrayed&Stayed Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 I think that is a common reaction. I had the same trigger for awhile. I asked my wife to add to the ILY's. For example "I love you because ....". "I love your sense of humor." Just a blanket "I love you" sounds like an empty cliche. 2
Journee Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 I feel much the same. Hearing "I love you" makes me wonder what love even is. Did he love me while x,y and z happened? I think it's pretty typical to feel this way. 2
Author ZombieEye Posted October 29, 2013 Author Posted October 29, 2013 I know he didn't love me at the time. We talked about it, and he admits he didn't, not in the real, connected sense. How could he have and still do all that? He insists he felt a connection to me at some level, even though he was repressing it and denying it. This doesn't make me feel better. Because how do I trust this now? Or more importantly, in the future when I may have actually begun to trust him again and opened myself to all this pain again. And I do question what love is, although now I do know what it's not. But I appreciate knowing that it's a fairly common feeling. Tell you what, if I'd known this was down the road, I'd never have married. 1
not-so-sure Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 I know he didn't love me at the time. We talked about it, and he admits he didn't, not in the real, connected sense. How could he have and still do all that? He insists he felt a connection to me at some level, even though he was repressing it and denying it. This doesn't make me feel better. Because how do I trust this now? Or more importantly, in the future when I may have actually begun to trust him again and opened myself to all this pain again. And I do question what love is, although now I do know what it's not. But I appreciate knowing that it's a fairly common feeling. Tell you what, if I'd known this was down the road, I'd never have married. Well, if you're continuing to feel that way then it's only fair to both of you to end it. Don't drag it out just for the sale of some gesture. Every day is an opportunity lost.
dichotomy Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) I was wondering if anyone else in R had a problem hearing those words or if it's just me. So I don't want to hear it. Every time he says it, it's a trigger. It feels like a lie. I said I want to have him show it through his actions, not his words anymore. Am I making too much of this issue? Is this a problem for anyone else? Like you and others responding. I have felt the same. Words are cheap, actions speak volumes on love. I think the response I want to say when she says "I love you"....is "how?" Then again - you do see him acting in a loving way - doing the things that show love, so try to focus on that, or shift it - next time he acts in a way you need (remorse, alowing you to be mad, etc), you might be proactive and say to him "thanks for showing love to me". Edited October 29, 2013 by dichotomy 1
NotCamelot Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 Strangely, I wanted to hear it more. If she could say it to him a 4 or 5 times a day, she should say it to me 100 times per day ..... if she means it like she says she does. So, I can't say you are wrong to feel that way. I think every single individual will have their own way of dealing with betrayal.....and the subsequent reconciliation, if that is what you choose.
Yesterday Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 If I can add to this, it may be a trigger, and perhaps it is being said so often that you find it annoying? How would you feel if she/he stopped saying "I love you"? To me that would be a bigger loss. 1
Author ZombieEye Posted October 29, 2013 Author Posted October 29, 2013 I appreciate all the responses! It's helpful to get different perspectives other than my husband's and the counselor's, both of them think it's okay for him to say it and don't really "validate" my angst connected with it. I don't know how I'd feel if he stopped saying it, but I also don't know exactly what to say back. I've said "I love you too" once in awhile but more often I don't know exactly what I'm feeling.
Yesterday Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 I appreciate all the responses! It's helpful to get different perspectives other than my husband's and the counselor's, both of them think it's okay for him to say it and don't really "validate" my angst connected with it. I don't know how I'd feel if he stopped saying it, but I also don't know exactly what to say back. I've said "I love you too" once in awhile but more often I don't know exactly what I'm feeling. In my case, (earliest in the hurt stage) I replied initially with " I believe you do, and I love you too, deeply, and I have always loved you. It will forever be with me that while you cheated, you obviously didn't love me at all" I am glad she says it, and I recognise the times when she forgets to say it. take care, 1
Zenstudent Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 Answer to OP. My wife has stopped saying it to me in response to me holding back - it's not healthy, I think. I would like her to say it, all though the first couple of times I might think "If stabbing me in the back like this is your idea of love, I would rather not have it" - but having experienced not being told ILY, I would like to learn to hear it again. For me it's worse that I can't bring myself to say it. I've tried every trick in the book that I know ie. I thought it would be powerfull to ask myself "What's the worst thing that can happen if you say it?" - but so far, I haven't been successfull, all though I think a lot about it (I'm probably/very much likely an over thinker like Coolit). It's about being vulnerable again, so the answer to my trick question is: "The worst thing that can happen is, that once she knows for sure that I love her, she'll stabb me in the back again with great pleasure, and I can't even tell myself I told you so". Trust issue. It's quite messed up, so I tend to take one day at a time, enjoying everyday activities and the little things in life. I wish that someone would erase infidelity from the book of concepts for good.
Journee Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 Overthinking I think is probably one of the biggest challenges a BS has to face (BS with a remorseful WS). I am an over thinker. It keeps me up at night. My H is not. I think that has made life easier for him during this. He doesn't question what I told him. He doesn't view the first five yeara of our relationship as a lie. He doesn't think I "fell out of love with him" during my A. Of course there are lots of circumstances to my season of infidelity that have made things easier. But to an over thinker there were some pretty disgusting and degrading things that could not be over looked. My H likes "I love you" like NC does. He doesn't doubt it but then he never doubted my love for him. I don't know how us "over thinkers" can deal with that. You are pretty fresh still. It may be to soon to know if you want to forgive. I say want because I absolutely believe we as people have the power to work towards forgiveness. It isn't about can't it is about want. And if someone wants to reconcile then that is a very important ingredient. Sorry for the rambling. I'll probably get all jumped on now. I will say one last thing. If telling my BH "I love you" caused him pain. And he told me that. I would tell him I would stop saying it until he gave me the green light. As a fWW the last thing i want to do is put more pain and stress on him. Yes, it would make me sad. But it would make me sadder that the words were hurting him. And I wouldn't blame him. It is my fault, only mine, that we are standing here today. This is all so true for me, an over thinker. I analyze everything and turn it around and upside down in my head. I have been guilty of asking the same questions over and over in hopes that this time it would all make sense. It never does. Actions versus words. I think it can be very difficult for someone who mulls things over to not say to themselves "Well, if this happened and then you did this...how could you have loved me then or eve now?" Because it doesn't make sense. It's not rational so it's like we can't compute it.
Betrayed&Stayed Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 This is all so true for me, an over thinker. I analyze everything and turn it around and upside down in my head. I have been guilty of asking the same questions over and over in hopes that this time it would all make sense. It never does. Actions versus words. I think it can be very difficult for someone who mulls things over to not say to themselves "Well, if this happened and then you did this...how could you have loved me then or eve now?" Because it doesn't make sense. It's not rational so it's like we can't compute it. Same for me. These posts reminded me that I had to keep those commentary inner voices out of my head for each "I Love You". I practiced accepting that ILY in that moment. It was easier to believe the ILY in that moment compared to the past and future. The ILY trigger also triggered the "what is love" line of questioning (one of my inner voice commentaries). I used to be a Romantic, but now I'm more realistic (cynical even). I'm still wrestling with the "what is love" question. This is what an over-thinker does. One question leads to another. Addressing one layer of questions only reveals a deeper layer. My wife is not an over-thinker, which is why I'm on Loveshack. I wonder what percentage of members of this forum are over-thinkers.
Journee Posted October 29, 2013 Posted October 29, 2013 Same for me. These posts reminded me that I had to keep those commentary inner voices out of my head for each "I Love You". I practiced accepting that ILY in that moment. It was easier to believe the ILY in that moment compared to the past and future. The ILY trigger also triggered the "what is love" line of questioning (one of my inner voice commentaries). I used to be a Romantic, but now I'm more realistic (cynical even). I'm still wrestling with the "what is love" question. This is what an over-thinker does. One question leads to another. Addressing one layer of questions only reveals a deeper layer. My wife is not an over-thinker, which is why I'm on Loveshack. I wonder what percentage of members of this forum are over-thinkers. I have never thought about the bolded. That would be very interesting to know. My H is not a great communicator and does not want to even acknowledge things that are difficult to process. I almost embrace things like that. I think (lol what else is knew) that people taking the time to post here are at the very least trying to gain understanding whether it's for themselves or their partner. Some folks probably just like a good discussion or debate. Either way they will see another perspective. I think many BS lose the 'hopeless romantic' views on life. Replaced by head shaking at the reality of the world.
Author ZombieEye Posted October 30, 2013 Author Posted October 30, 2013 A couple of hours ago my WH said, "I know you hate hearing this, but..." which I realize he now says instead of "I love you." Not sure if that helps any. I'm definitely an over thinker. Plus I'm not very good at living in the present, and putting the past behind. It feels like it's all here, and not just in this situation. Always been like that. I see my kids and who they've been is there. I look at the garden and see where I started, what it is now and what more I have to do. Maybe that's why those three words conjure up so much, and not just what's going on at the moment. It's all here at the same time. I love you = I didn't love you then, it looks like I love you now, will I still love you in the future. And no - not a hopeless romantic anymore. Never again. I've learned my lesson. Intellectually I knew that there wasn't any happily ever after. Snow White's Prince kept going on those hunting trips where he might have encountered more women in comas, Cinderella's husband had that glass shoe fetish and made everyone in the kingdom wear them, Sleeping Beauty's husband had that Knight in Shining Armor complex that made him easy target for any damsel in distress...
jnel921 Posted October 30, 2013 Posted October 30, 2013 When we were in MC I brought this up as well. I could not accept my H saying I love you or telling me that all along he loved me even during the A. My MC told me it was possible. In the beginning it was tough to hear. But he did finally convince me. He never stopped saying it after d-day. But I did. It's been over a year and I do love him. He has earned it and shown me why I should fall in love with him again. I am not quite ready to let my guard down and say it. I feel that because I loved him so much he took advantage of that in the past. Telling him those words would make him break down and cry like a baby I am sure. He tells me all of the time that although I don't say it! he feels it from me. So we are both doing something right.
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